Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:13 AM - Re: FS450 calibration (David Joyce)
2. 04:21 AM - FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE (bbwebbase)
3. 04:22 AM - FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE (Alexander Rodriguez)
4. 04:53 AM - Lifting a Europa (Richard Lamprey)
5. 05:23 AM - Re: FS450 calibration (Karl Heindl)
6. 05:37 AM - Re: FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE (Karl Heindl)
7. 05:47 AM - Re: FS450 calibration (Bob Borger)
8. 06:25 AM - Re: FS450 calibration (Karl Heindl)
9. 11:37 AM - Re: FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
10. 01:15 PM - Re: FS450 calibration (David Joyce)
11. 01:49 PM - Re: FS450 calibration (Karl Heindl)
12. 02:39 PM - Laddingford Fly-In (David Watts)
13. 03:09 PM - Re: FS450 calibration (R Holder)
14. 05:16 PM - Re: FS450 calibration (Karl Heindl)
15. 06:11 PM - Re: FS450 calibration (Robert Berube)
16. 10:35 PM - Re: FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE (bbwebbase)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: FS450 calibration |
Karl, What engine? David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:52 PM
Subject: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
I am trying to calibrate the K (fudge) factor for the above fuel flow
computer. I have only one transducer and want displays in liters.
My re-computed K-factor is way above the limit of the input field, which is
limited to 2 digits.
There is supposed to be a way of using just the one transducer, but how do
you do it ?
Perhaps the automatic option ? The guy at JPI tells me that I must have 2
transducers.
Any help appreciated.
Karl
Message 2
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| Subject: | FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE |
part number: 9234c120-r7 Motion
Dear all,
After intermittent failures the flap drive finally quit working. After searching
through the message board and also catching up with the Vans community it seems
to be a frequent problem with these motors. Our question to you is now: Is
there an alternative part or newer version (read not from Motion or where the
problem is remedied) for this drive, and possibly avoiding drilling new holes
in the fuselage? Quick answers would be super nice.
Thank you.
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 3
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| Subject: | FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE |
part number: 9234c120-r7 Motion
Dear all,
After intermittent failures the flap drive finally quit
working. After searching through the message board and also catching up with
the Vans community it seems to be a frequent problem with these motors. Our
question to you is now: Is there an alternative part or newer version (read not
from Motion or where the problem is remedied) for this drive, and possibly
avoiding drilling new holes in the fuselage? Quick answers would be super nice.
Thank you.
Alexander
Message 4
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| Subject: | Lifting a Europa |
Thanks, Raimo, Bud and Nigel for replies about lifting a Europa!
I dont know how to reply to / add to messages in a thread, nothing seems
to work, must be my server or something.
Regards to all, Richard. Kenya
Message 5
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| Subject: | FS450 calibration |
912s. I don't think there is a solution=2C except that second transponder.
I set the K to 99.99=2C but flow rate is 27 litres. the automatic option sh
ould work=2C but the crappy software seems to truncate the internally compu
ted k-factor also.
Karl
> From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
> Date: Mon=2C 3 Aug 2009 09:10:23 +0100
>
uk>
>
> Karl=2C What engine? David Joyce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday=2C July 31=2C 2009 7:52 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
>
>
>
>
> I am trying to calibrate the K (fudge) factor for the above fuel flow
> computer. I have only one transducer and want displays in liters.
>
> My re-computed K-factor is way above the limit of the input field=2C whic
h is
> limited to 2 digits.
>
> There is supposed to be a way of using just the one transducer=2C but how
do
> you do it ?
>
> Perhaps the automatic option ? The guy at JPI tells me that I must have 2
> transducers.
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
>
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE |
Alexander=2C
I can't help=2C but as far as I know the statistics for the motor are very
good. But I think now that I will always carry a spare with me=2C ordered f
rom Europa.
The other reason for this reply is : what is the best way to do a flapless
landing ?
I tried it in the early days=2C but gave up because of the nose high attitu
de.
Karl
Dear all=2C
After intermittent failures the flap drive finally quit working. After sear
ching through the message board and also catching up with the Vans communit
y it seems to be a frequent problem with these motors. Our question to you
is now: Is there an alternative part or newer version (read not from Motion
or where the problem is remedied) for this drive=2C and possibly avoiding
drilling new holes in the fuselage? Quick answers would be super nice.
Thank you.
Alexander
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: FS450 calibration |
Karl,
If you are using a return line to the fuel tank (as in my 914) you must use two
transducers. There is no way to calibrate a system with a return line using
only one transducer.
Bob Borger
N914XL
XS Mono, 914, Airmaster C/S Prop
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:52 PM
>Subject: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
>
>
>I am trying to calibrate the K (fudge) factor for the above fuel flow
>computer. I have only one transducer and want displays in liters.
>
>My re-computed K-factor is way above the limit of the input field, which is
>limited to 2 digits.
>
>There is supposed to be a way of using just the one transducer, but how do
>you do it ?
>
>Perhaps the automatic option ? The guy at JPI tells me that I must have 2
>transducers.
>
>Any help appreciated.
>
>
>Karl
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | FS450 calibration |
Bob=2C
that was my original assumption=2C but i was told that several europa owner
s managed to get away with one and accurate readings. i have done the wirin
g for two=2C but was trying to save the $300+. it is really a software pro
blem by not allowing the input or calculation of the k-fudge factor above 9
9.99.
Karl
> Date: Mon=2C 3 Aug 2009 07:37:05 -0500
> From: rlborger@mac.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
>
>
> Karl=2C
>
> If you are using a return line to the fuel tank (as in my 914) you must u
se two transducers. There is no way to calibrate a system with a return lin
e using only one transducer.
>
> Bob Borger
> N914XL
> XS Mono=2C 914=2C Airmaster C/S Prop
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >Sent: Friday=2C July 31=2C 2009 7:52 PM
> >Subject: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I am trying to calibrate the K (fudge) factor for the above fuel flow
> >computer. I have only one transducer and want displays in liters.
> >
> >My re-computed K-factor is way above the limit of the input field=2C whi
ch is
> >limited to 2 digits.
> >
> >There is supposed to be a way of using just the one transducer=2C but ho
w do
> >you do it ?
> >
> >Perhaps the automatic option ? The guy at JPI tells me that I must have
2
> >transducers.
> >
> >Any help appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> >Karl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE |
<<...Quick answers would be super nice...>>
Try cleaning the commutator; needs doing every 100hours or so and cures
intermittent operation.
Duncan McF
See article in archives.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "bbwebbase" <alexander_rodriguez@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:22 PM
Subject: Europa-List: FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE
>
> <alexander_rodriguez@yahoo.com>
>
> part number: 9234c120-r7 Motion
>
> Dear all,
>
> After intermittent failures the flap drive finally quit working. After
> searching through the message board and also catching up with the Vans
> community it seems to be a frequent problem with these motors. Our
> question to you is now: Is there an alternative part or newer version
> (read not from Motion or where the problem is remedied) for this drive,
> and possibly avoiding drilling new holes in the fuselage? Quick answers
> would be super nice.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: FS450 calibration |
Karl, I have a 914 with FS450 and 2 transponders. My understanding is that
the flow through the filters, pump/s and pressure valve and return line is
considerably in excess of the normal fuel consumption, and depends on the
efficiency of your pumps how clean the filters are, and the calibre of the
fuel lines. Although the flow to the pressure valve will increase with
greater engine power & fuel consumption, it will not be in strict proportion
as there is considerable flow through the valve and the return pipe when the
engine is not running. In consequence you cannot hope to get a reliable
indication of fuel consumption without measuring fuel flow out & return &
getting the instrument to subtract them. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:21 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
912s. I don't think there is a solution, except that second transponder. I
set the K to 99.99, but flow rate is 27 litres. the automatic option should
work, but the crappy software seems to truncate the internally computed
k-factor also.
Karl
> From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:10:23 +0100
>
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Karl, What engine? David Joyce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:52 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
>
>
> I am trying to calibrate the K (fudge) factor for the above fuel flow
> computer. I have only one transducer and want displays in liters.
>
> My re-computed K-factor is way above the limit of the input field, which
> is
> limited to 2 digits.
>
> There is supposed to be a way of using just the one transducer, but how do
> you do it ?
>
> Perhaps the automatic option ? The guy at JPI tells me that I must have 2
> transducers.
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
>
> Karl
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | FS450 calibration |
David=2C
you are right of course=2C but i have been led to believe that the other so
lution works okay also and gives accurate readings by changing this k-facto
r. maybe if i change to gallons=2C but i have no interest in gallons. i jus
t won't use it for a while.
Karl
> From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
> Date: Mon=2C 3 Aug 2009 20:54:06 +0100
>
uk>
>
> Karl=2C I have a 914 with FS450 and 2 transponders. My understanding is t
hat
> the flow through the filters=2C pump/s and pressure valve and return line
is
> considerably in excess of the normal fuel consumption=2C and depends on t
he
> efficiency of your pumps how clean the filters are=2C and the calibre of
the
> fuel lines. Although the flow to the pressure valve will increase with
> greater engine power & fuel consumption=2C it will not be in strict propo
rtion
> as there is considerable flow through the valve and the return pipe when
the
> engine is not running. In consequence you cannot hope to get a reliable
> indication of fuel consumption without measuring fuel flow out & return &
> getting the instrument to subtract them. Regards=2C David Joyce=2C G-XSDJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday=2C August 03=2C 2009 1:21 PM
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
>
>
>
>
> 912s. I don't think there is a solution=2C except that second transponder
. I
> set the K to 99.99=2C but flow rate is 27 litres. the automatic option sh
ould
> work=2C but the crappy software seems to truncate the internally computed
> k-factor also.
>
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
> > To: europa-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
> > Date: Mon=2C 3 Aug 2009 09:10:23 +0100
> >
> > <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> >
> > Karl=2C What engine? David Joyce
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Friday=2C July 31=2C 2009 7:52 PM
> > Subject: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am trying to calibrate the K (fudge) factor for the above fuel flow
> > computer. I have only one transducer and want displays in liters.
> >
> > My re-computed K-factor is way above the limit of the input field=2C wh
ich
> > is
> > limited to 2 digits.
> >
> > There is supposed to be a way of using just the one transducer=2C but h
ow do
> > you do it ?
> >
> > Perhaps the automatic option ? The guy at JPI tells me that I must have
2
> > transducers.
> >
> > Any help appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> > Karl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Laddingford Fly-In |
we had a great day at the re-scheduled Annual Laddingford Fly-In
yesterday.
A bad weather forecast for Saturday forced us to postpone the Fly-In for
1 day to the Sunday when we had fantastic weather.
24 Europas were to be seen at this gathering plus another 14 aircraft
and a low fly-past by the kent Air Ambulance helicopter.
Well over 100 barbecue meals were served up and a whole load of people
were taken for a pleasure flight. In fact if you were responsible for
taking anybody for a flight could you please e-mail the details to
2pk@peterkember.co.uk as Pete keeps a record of these things.
Once again a memorable day. Thank you to everyone who managed to get
there.
Dave Watts
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: FS450 calibration |
Karl Heindl wrote:
> you are right of course, but i have been led to believe
> that the other solution works okay also and gives
> accurate readings by changing this k-factor. maybe if i
> change to gallons, but i have no interest in gallons. i
> just won't use it for a while.
There is a solution using one transponder.
Re-arrange things so that the fuel comes out of the
mechanical fuel pump, to a high point from where the
return feed to the tank is taken, then put in the
transponder and then split the line to each of the carbs.
The tank return must be the highest point in the whole
fuel system.
Ergo. One transponder measuring exactly the fuel flow INTO
the carbs.
I know this can be done as it is how the factory built
Sport Cruiser is set up. I have seen under the cowling of
their demonstrator !
I failed to take a photo but I assure you that was how it
was set up. (Don't ask me how I got to see under the hood
on a SC !)
The transponder requirement is 100mm straight line hose
before it and 50mm after it so a total (including the
transponder) of around 225 mm. Easily found !
Richard
G-OWWW no fuel flow !
Message 14
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| Subject: | FS450 calibration |
Thank you for that richard. i'll take a look at it and do what you say=2C u
nless there is good reason not to change the fuel lines. I think i called i
t a transponder as well=2C but it should be transducer=2C whatever that is.
Karl
> Date: Mon=2C 3 Aug 2009 23:07:08 +0100
> From: rholder@avnet.co.uk
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
>
>
> Karl Heindl wrote:
>
> > you are right of course=2C but i have been led to believe
> > that the other solution works okay also and gives
> > accurate readings by changing this k-factor. maybe if i
> > change to gallons=2C but i have no interest in gallons. i
> > just won't use it for a while.
>
>
> There is a solution using one transponder.
>
> Re-arrange things so that the fuel comes out of the
> mechanical fuel pump=2C to a high point from where the
> return feed to the tank is taken=2C then put in the
> transponder and then split the line to each of the carbs.
>
> The tank return must be the highest point in the whole
> fuel system.
>
> Ergo. One transponder measuring exactly the fuel flow INTO
> the carbs.
>
> I know this can be done as it is how the factory built
> Sport Cruiser is set up. I have seen under the cowling of
> their demonstrator !
>
> I failed to take a photo but I assure you that was how it
> was set up. (Don't ask me how I got to see under the hood
> on a SC !)
>
> The transponder requirement is 100mm straight line hose
> before it and 50mm after it so a total (including the
> transponder) of around 225 mm. Easily found !
>
> Richard
> G-OWWW no fuel flow !
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | FS450 calibration |
Karl,
We have set up several Europas with a single transducer with good results.
I am sure it is in the archives but some years back. In fact we are in the
midst of doing one now and would be happy to walk you through it if you
give me a call.
Bob Berube
Flight Crafters
813 695-1120
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
Thank you for that richard. i'll take a look at it and do what you say,
unless there is good reason not to change the fuel lines. I think i called
it a transponder as well, but it should be transducer, whatever that is.
Karl
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 23:07:08 +0100
> From: rholder@avnet.co.uk
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: FS450 calibration
>
>
> Karl Heindl wrote:
>
> > you are right of course, but i have been led to believe
> > that the other solution works okay also and gives
> > accurate readings by changing this k-factor. maybe if i
> > change to gallons, but i have no interest in gallons. i
> > just won't use it for a while.
>
>
> There is a solution using one transponder.
>
> Re-arrange things so that the fuel comes out of the
> mechanical fuel pump, to a high point from where the
> return feed to the tank is taken, then put in the
> transponder and then split the line to each of the carbs.
>
> The tank return must be the highest point in the whole
> fuel system.
>
> Ergo. One transponder measuring exactly the fuel flow INTO
> the carbs.
>
> I know this can be done as it is how the factory built
> Sport Cruiser is set up. I have seen under the cowling of
> their demonstrator !
>
> I failed to take a photo but I assure you that was how it
> was set up. (Don't ask me how I got to see under the hood
> on a SC !)
>
> The transponder requirement is 100mm straight line hose
> before it and 50mm after it so a total (including the
> transponder) of around 225 mm. Easily found !
>
> Richard
> G-OWW=======================
>
>
>
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
05:56:00
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: FLAP DRIVE / MOTOR FAILURE |
<<Quick>>
Try cleaning the commutator; needs doing every 100hours or so and cures
intermittent operation.
Duncan McF
See article in archives.
Do not archive.
-----[/quote:7884966cb3]
Yes, it seems to have been the thing to do. Cleaning the commutator as one can
find in the message boards here and for Van's. However, we had a failure after
54h engine time. Is not encouraging and also makes me wonder about the long term
performance. We would like to go long distances and something like failing
when setting up for a short field landing with no other field around is not my
preference. I called Europa yesterday and they actually offer a different part
now for approx. 380EUR. incl. an adapter plate. OK, there is an alternative,
unfortunately with a hefty price tag. So, I still look around for some other
solutions...
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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