Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - Re: Re: VOR Aerials (Frans Veldman)
2. 02:44 AM - Re: Trailer Length (flyingphil2)
3. 03:36 AM - Re: Re: VOR Aerials (Greg Fuchs)
4. 04:11 AM - Re: Re: VOR Aerials (Frans Veldman)
5. 04:25 AM - Re: Re: VOR Aerials (craig bastin)
6. 04:27 AM - Re: Re: VOR Aerials (William Harrison)
7. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: VOR Aerials (Mike Gregory)
8. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: VOR Aerials (Frans Veldman)
9. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: VOR Aerials (Frans Veldman)
10. 07:44 AM - Classic Radiator (Jim Naylor)
11. 09:26 AM - VOR antennas et all (Fergus Kyle)
12. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: VOR Aerials (craig bastin)
13. 02:18 PM - Re: VOR antennas et all (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
14. 11:01 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
15. 11:17 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials |
Carl Pattinson wrote:
> Its a while now but our VOR is a copper tape dipole mounted
> horizontally in the bottom of the rear fuselage - about 18" behind
> the rear baggage bulkhead. Not sure of the dimensions but would guess
> a 1/4 or 1/2 wavelength.
It should be a 1/2 wavelength.
For what it is worth: I have in the bottom of the rear fuselage also a
1/2 wave dipole. Not straight, but in a V. It is flat in the vertical
plane, but a V in the horizontal plane. The middle of the V points to
the rear, both tips to the front.
The V serves a couple of purposes: A straight dipole is not sensitive in
the direction of the tips if it would be straight. So, if you would put
it parallel to the length axis of the ship, it would be sensitive to the
sides, but not to the front and rear of the ship. If you would turn it
90 degrees, it wouldn't fit as the fuselage is not wide enough for a
straight 1/2 wave dipole. By shaping it in a V, it becomes sensitive for
all directions (with a slight bias to the front of the ship) and it will
fit nicely in the rear fuselage.
Keep in mind though that if you do this, the dimensions of the dipole
will change. I used an antenna analyzer to tune it properly for the
VOR-band.
Sure I know that the front of the ship generates some noise, but this
noise will get into the radio anyway. I do not expect humans and the
engine to be serious obstacles for the radio waves. Both are quite small
compared to the wave length.
An antenna in the wing tip could be a nice idea, but maintenance of the
coax cable (they do age) would be troublesome, and wing tip strobes (as
I have) will spoil the advantage, as strobes produces lots of noise. A
V-shaped antenna in the middle of the ship will null out noise from the
strobes as they are symmetrical to the antenna from that position.
Have not been flying with it, but if I reach that stage, I will let you
know whether it works or not.
Frans
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| Subject: | Re: Trailer Length |
Thanks for the info. Looks like 7m is the luxury then and 6m is the 'just fits'
option.
Thanks,
Phil
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials |
I did this and a little bit of research not long ago, but don't have the
paperwork next to me, so from memory, but if I make a mistake for Gods sake,
correct me rather than pass on bad information::
Note that this is for the communications band, but VOR band is similar in
concept, except that it is is horizontally polarized, instead of vertically
polarized. I believe the glideslope is horizontally polarized, as well.
wavelength = v/f, where v=velocity of light and f=frequency.
V=3*10^8 (m/s), and f=127Mhz (cycles/sec)
Hence wavelength = 3*10^8/127*10^6 (127Mhz is center of the band for audio
communications) = 2.3622 m/cycle
The dipole is set for half wavelength:
Half wavelength would be 1.181m, so each leg of the dipole is 0.59055m, or
23.25 inches (for dipole in free air). Actual length will be somewhat
smaller (15% plus?), to be adjusted with a VSWR meter, but this is a
starting point.
This dipole is oriented vertically: center conductor of coaxial cable
connected to the copper strip oriented vertically up, and coax ground
connected to copper strip oriented down. It does not need a ground plane, as
in a Marconi style of antenna. Metal covered planes will use the Marconi
style. Composite aircraft can use them too, if they have ground plane or
ground plane strips laid down that are roughly the length of the antenna
element. One advantage of a Marconi style antenna is that it (along with a
proper ground plane) simulates a full wavelength antenna while using only a
half-wavelength physical height. The theory goes deeper, since this is a
counterpoise method, which either creates its own ground plane, or is
supposed to interact with the real ground plane. I am not sure which is
true. If it needs to interact with the real earth ground plane, then
planes(airplanes) may loose some of the Marconi advantage, since they are so
far away from the real ground. These antennas are used in the tops of
skyscrapers, effectively, though.
Other notes for those with enquiry minds (like me):
-The bigger the diameter of the antenna conductor, the broader the bandwidth
of response (and a slight decrease in gain, most likely). A small diameter
wire will tend to be highly tuned to one frequency. I think that the copper
tape will simulate a bigger diameter, and that is good, I suppose.
-Lowest VSWR should be at 127Mhz, however it will increase at both ends of
the band, 118Mhz and 136Mhz. One of my computations put best theoretical
VSWR for a dipole at 1.5. I am not sure if this is correct. Anyone?
-Antenna can be impedance compensated, ie a resonant tank circuit between
the two antenna elements, set to resonate at the center frequency of 127Mhz.
At 127Mhz, the signal will see the added components as an open circuit.
Since an antenna will look capacitive if it is short, it will require an
inductive reactance to compensate. It will look inductive if the antenna is
long, requiring a capacitive reactance to compensate.
Hence at the lower end of the band (118Mhz), the antenna will look short to
the signal, and the inductance in the tank circuit will compensate somewhat
for the VSWR issue, since its reactance lowers, while capacitive reactance
increases.
At the high end of the band (136Mhz), the physical antenna will look long to
the electrical signal, and the capacitance in the tank circuit will
compensate for the frequencies higher than the center, since its reactance
will lower, while the inductive reactance increases.
I would try setting Xc (capacitive reactance) equal to Xl (inductive
reactance) at both ends of the band, when calculating the tank circuit.
I should probably leave the above topic out, since for all practical
purposes, the high frequency ferrite cores placed on the end of the coax
(antenna side) will reduce the VSWR, since it presents a lossy environment
for energy lost in the bouncing signals in the coax, and then there is no
need for impedance compensation. This is how the Europa style Antenna is,
and is perfectly adequate, especially for line of site signals, and is the
easiest to implement.
-From my reading, it appears that the dipole antenna does not HAVE to be
straight! The tips can be bend slightly with very little effect, since most
of the radiated energy is closer to the feedline.
This knowledge could be handy for tight spaces. To use this info to
advantage, I am planning on installing a glideslope made out of copper tape,
following the curvature of the Europa fuselage top (inside the fuselage, of
course), and located just behind the front main window. This should take out
some of the 'parasitics', such as ME as an antenna parasite (hmmm.). Mostly
it is to keep the antennas away from each other.
Hopefully this information will be useful for someone. It is the type of
info I have been craving of late.
Remember, I have never taken antenna theory before now, and have never built
an aircraft antenna yet, so I am only just learning (work in progress), so
let me know of any additions or better explanations, or if I have made a
mistake here. From reading the responses on the server, I know there are
other technical types out there, so If there is a frown, let us know :-)
Also, Although the copper tape antenna is omnidirectional, I assume it has
slightly more radiant power either orthogonal to the plane of the tape, or
does it have slightly more radiant energy parallel to the plane of the tape?
(if anyone knows)
Greg
________
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:17 PM
My Physics is a bit rusty but i am sure there are those that would know the
formula for aerial length. v = f X wavelength (I think) though im not sure
what v should equal ?
Hope that helps.
----- Original Message -----
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials |
Greg Fuchs wrote:
> I did this and a little bit of research not long ago, but don't have the
> paperwork next to me, so from memory, but if I make a mistake for Gods sake,
> correct me rather than pass on bad information::
Ok, I will give a few corrections:
> Half wavelength would be 1.181m, so each leg of the dipole is 0.59055m, or
> 23.25 inches (for dipole in free air). Actual length will be somewhat
> smaller (15% plus?), to be adjusted with a VSWR meter, but this is a
> starting point.
It is indeed a starting point. There are many things that can influence
the final length. Especially if you bend the antenna in some way.
> This dipole is oriented vertically: center conductor of coaxial cable
> connected to the copper strip oriented vertically up, and coax ground
> connected to copper strip oriented down. It does not need a ground plane, as
> in a Marconi style of antenna. Metal covered planes will use the Marconi
> style. Composite aircraft can use them too, if they have ground plane or
> ground plane strips laid down that are roughly the length of the antenna
> element. One advantage of a Marconi style antenna is that it (along with a
> proper ground plane) simulates a full wavelength antenna while using only a
> half-wavelength physical height.
Nope. If you use a ground plane, the antenna is 1/4 wavelength. A dipole
is two 1/4 wavelength stacked on top. The bottom one acts as a ground
plane. There is no advantage in using a "real" groundplane or 1/4
wavelength element. In composite aircraft you have the choice, in metal
airplanes you are bound to the groundplane model.
> The theory goes deeper, since this is a
> counterpoise method, which either creates its own ground plane, or is
> supposed to interact with the real ground plane. I am not sure which is
> true. If it needs to interact with the real earth ground plane, then
It doesn't need to interact with the real earth ground plane.
> -The bigger the diameter of the antenna conductor, the broader the bandwidth
> of response (and a slight decrease in gain, most likely). A small diameter
> wire will tend to be highly tuned to one frequency. I think that the copper
> tape will simulate a bigger diameter, and that is good, I suppose.
Correct.
> -Lowest VSWR should be at 127Mhz, however it will increase at both ends of
> the band, 118Mhz and 136Mhz. One of my computations put best theoretical
> VSWR for a dipole at 1.5. I am not sure if this is correct. Anyone?
I'm not sure what you mean. The best VSWR is 1:1, although it makes
little difference if it remains below 1:2.
> -Antenna can be impedance compensated, ie a resonant tank circuit between
> the two antenna elements, set to resonate at the center frequency of 127Mhz.
> At 127Mhz, the signal will see the added components as an open circuit.
>
> Since an antenna will look capacitive if it is short, it will require an
> inductive reactance to compensate. It will look inductive if the antenna is
> long, requiring a capacitive reactance to compensate.
Yes, but you can't use both together at the same time.
> I should probably leave the above topic out, since for all practical
> purposes, the high frequency ferrite cores placed on the end of the coax
> (antenna side) will reduce the VSWR, since it presents a lossy environment
> for energy lost in the bouncing signals in the coax, and then there is no
> need for impedance compensation.
Incorrect. If you look carefully at the electrical diagram of the
antenna, you will see that the outside of the coax is connected to one
of the 1/4 wavelength elements. The problem is, at the end of the coax,
the electrical current is not sure which way it should go: it has two
choices, the 1/4 wavelength element, or the outside of the coax. Part of
the current will choose the outside of the coax, and then discover that
it doesn't end after 1/4 wavelength. It continues to travel over the
outside of the coax, creating havoc with other conductors nearby, and
creaping altogether into your electrical system instead of being
radiated away.The ferrite cores are there to block this route. True
enough, if you have current on the outside of the coax, the VSWR will
get worse. So ferrite cores seem to improve VSWR, but only bad VSWR due
to currents on the outside of the coax. Ferrite cores won't do anything
if the VSWR is bad due to a too long or too short antenna.
> -From my reading, it appears that the dipole antenna does not HAVE to be
> straight! The tips can be bend slightly with very little effect, since most
> of the radiated energy is closer to the feedline.
Yes, but bending it will change the impedance. There are two properties
here: a too long antenna behaves like a coil, too short as a
capacitance, but if correct, it will present itself as a pure
resistance. Now, the resistance of a tuned antenna will be around 50
ohms. But only if it is a normal dipole. Mess with it (bending it, put
other conductors nearby) and the impedance (resistance) will stray away
from 50 ohms. Even if the antenna is tuned properly, you will still get
a bad VSWR because the impedance of the antenna doesn't match the
impedance of the coax (more correctly, the output/input of the
transmitter/receiver).
Hope this is of some help.
Best regards,
Frans Veldman
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials |
Is a full wave loop installed in the tail an option here, feed point on the
floor or roof to create the horizontal polarization
craig
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials |
>
Can I ask a simpler question re VOR aerials? Is there an optimum
location and orientation for the "rubber duck" antennae you get with
handheld Navcoms, eg ICOM? These are a bit rubbish for VOR range when
used in the cockpit and attached to the transceiver set. Mine needs
to be held up close to the perspex before it can get a stable VOR
signal. How would it be if the flexible antenna were mounted in the
baggage bay floor pointing downwards and connected with a suitable
length of coax?
Willie
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials |
Greg,
The VOR system operates in the VHF frequency band, from 108.0 to 117.95 MHz,
so that it is below the air/ground VHF R/T communication band from 118 MHz
upwards. The difference between horizontal and vertical polarisation of the
antennas would not be sufficient to prevent interference if they shared the
same band.
You should therefore centre the tuning of your VOR antenna around the
mid-band frequency of 113 MHz.
Regards,
Mike
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fuchs
Sent: 01 September 2009 11:31
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials
I did this and a little bit of research not long ago, but don't have the
paperwork next to me, so from memory, but if I make a mistake for Gods sake,
correct me rather than pass on bad information::
Note that this is for the communications band, but VOR band is similar in
concept, except that it is is horizontally polarized, instead of vertically
polarized. I believe the glideslope is horizontally polarized, as well.
wavelength = v/f, where v=velocity of light and f=frequency.
V=3*10^8 (m/s), and f=127Mhz (cycles/sec)
Hence wavelength = 3*10^8/127*10^6 (127Mhz is center of the band for audio
communications) = 2.3622 m/cycle
The dipole is set for half wavelength:
Half wavelength would be 1.181m, so each leg of the dipole is 0.59055m, or
23.25 inches (for dipole in free air). Actual length will be somewhat
smaller (15% plus?), to be adjusted with a VSWR meter, but this is a
starting point.
This dipole is oriented vertically: center conductor of coaxial cable
connected to the copper strip oriented vertically up, and coax ground
connected to copper strip oriented down. It does not need a ground plane, as
in a Marconi style of antenna. Metal covered planes will use the Marconi
style. Composite aircraft can use them too, if they have ground plane or
ground plane strips laid down that are roughly the length of the antenna
element. One advantage of a Marconi style antenna is that it (along with a
proper ground plane) simulates a full wavelength antenna while using only a
half-wavelength physical height. The theory goes deeper, since this is a
counterpoise method, which either creates its own ground plane, or is
supposed to interact with the real ground plane. I am not sure which is
true. If it needs to interact with the real earth ground plane, then
planes(airplanes) may loose some of the Marconi advantage, since they are so
far away from the real ground. These antennas are used in the tops of
skyscrapers, effectively, though.
Other notes for those with enquiry minds (like me):
-The bigger the diameter of the antenna conductor, the broader the bandwidth
of response (and a slight decrease in gain, most likely). A small diameter
wire will tend to be highly tuned to one frequency. I think that the copper
tape will simulate a bigger diameter, and that is good, I suppose.
-Lowest VSWR should be at 127Mhz, however it will increase at both ends of
the band, 118Mhz and 136Mhz. One of my computations put best theoretical
VSWR for a dipole at 1.5. I am not sure if this is correct. Anyone?
-Antenna can be impedance compensated, ie a resonant tank circuit between
the two antenna elements, set to resonate at the center frequency of 127Mhz.
At 127Mhz, the signal will see the added components as an open circuit.
Since an antenna will look capacitive if it is short, it will require an
inductive reactance to compensate. It will look inductive if the antenna is
long, requiring a capacitive reactance to compensate.
Hence at the lower end of the band (118Mhz), the antenna will look short to
the signal, and the inductance in the tank circuit will compensate somewhat
for the VSWR issue, since its reactance lowers, while capacitive reactance
increases.
At the high end of the band (136Mhz), the physical antenna will look long to
the electrical signal, and the capacitance in the tank circuit will
compensate for the frequencies higher than the center, since its reactance
will lower, while the inductive reactance increases.
I would try setting Xc (capacitive reactance) equal to Xl (inductive
reactance) at both ends of the band, when calculating the tank circuit.
I should probably leave the above topic out, since for all practical
purposes, the high frequency ferrite cores placed on the end of the coax
(antenna side) will reduce the VSWR, since it presents a lossy environment
for energy lost in the bouncing signals in the coax, and then there is no
need for impedance compensation. This is how the Europa style Antenna is,
and is perfectly adequate, especially for line of site signals, and is the
easiest to implement.
-From my reading, it appears that the dipole antenna does not HAVE to be
straight! The tips can be bend slightly with very little effect, since most
of the radiated energy is closer to the feedline.
This knowledge could be handy for tight spaces. To use this info to
advantage, I am planning on installing a glideslope made out of copper tape,
following the curvature of the Europa fuselage top (inside the fuselage, of
course), and located just behind the front main window. This should take out
some of the 'parasitics', such as ME as an antenna parasite (hmmm.). Mostly
it is to keep the antennas away from each other.
Hopefully this information will be useful for someone. It is the type of
info I have been craving of late.
Remember, I have never taken antenna theory before now, and have never built
an aircraft antenna yet, so I am only just learning (work in progress), so
let me know of any additions or better explanations, or if I have made a
mistake here. From reading the responses on the server, I know there are
other technical types out there, so If there is a frown, let us know :-)
Also, Although the copper tape antenna is omnidirectional, I assume it has
slightly more radiant power either orthogonal to the plane of the tape, or
does it have slightly more radiant energy parallel to the plane of the tape?
(if anyone knows)
Greg
________
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:17 PM
My Physics is a bit rusty but i am sure there are those that would know the
formula for aerial length. v = f X wavelength (I think) though im not sure
what v should equal ?
Hope that helps.
----- Original Message -----
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials |
William Harrison wrote:
> Can I ask a simpler question re VOR aerials? Is there an optimum
> location and orientation for the "rubber duck" antennae you get with
> handheld Navcoms, eg ICOM?
You need to hold it horizontally, with its side towards the VOR you want
to receive.
> These are a bit rubbish for VOR range when
They are indeed. You'd better make small dipole just behind the
windscreen. Would cost down to nothing, but give far better reception
than a rubber duck antenna will do.
Someone on the forum already calculated the approximate dimensions, for
reception I wouldn't bother to tune the antenna perfectly.
Frans
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials |
craig bastin wrote:
> Is a full wave loop installed in the tail an option here, feed point on the
> floor or roof to create the horizontal polarization
If you would have the room for it, yes. But I'm afraid the tailplane is
much too small for that.
Frans
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| Subject: | Classic Radiator |
Does anyone have a pair or just the starboard classic radiator they
would be willing to sell.
Jim
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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| Subject: | VOR antennas et all |
Cheers,
I note the level of discussion about antennas rising again, so will
make my pitch for an alternative.........
Being both, along with several others on net, I have found a strange
sameness in the two groups. Building planes and radios seem to attract
similar folk in that there's a certain camaraderie, helpfulness and
reasonableness to both groups. And, it appears that given the opportunity
each admires and is curious about the other. Even the regular meetings seem
to acquire the same atmosphere.
Given that, I have always suggested a builder of aircraft who needs
advice or measuring in the radio line contact his/her local Amateur Radio
club and solicit a dash of help in citing or measuring the antenna, both the
Av VHF, Beacon, VOR and assorted accessory freqs. It might be surprising to
find hams outbidding each other to come, see your project - pick the
gray-haired samples as they have tried it all because they are forever
trying to string up temporary, emergency and strange aerials everywhere.
Such items as airborne IRLP, APRS and other facets might come up....
Anyway, I'll go now....
Ferg
Europa Classic 914 CSprop
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials |
atcually i was thinking the tail itself, not a tailplane, about 12 inches
behind the baggage bay
give you a nice run of 93 inches around the tail cone
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frans
Veldman
Sent: Tuesday, 1 September 2009 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: VOR Aerials
craig bastin wrote:
> Is a full wave loop installed in the tail an option here, feed point on
the
> floor or roof to create the horizontal polarization
If you would have the room for it, yes. But I'm afraid the tailplane is
much too small for that.
Frans
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: VOR antennas et all |
Fergus-
You hit it dead on.=C2- Most amateurs are glad to help and most also have
either a good VHF SWR bridge or an antenna scope.=C2- Sure beats buying
one.=C2- Also, they are usually experts at soldering those pesky BNC conn
ectors.=C2- As for the VOR antenna, I just went out to my plane and took
some measurements.=C2- Since the receive antenna is horizontally polarize
d, it looks to me like=C2- copper tape fastened to the roof immediatly in
front of, or behind, the doors would be an ideal location.=C2- As someon
e said, if the ends need to be bent, it is very minimal impact.=C2- You c
ould center feed it and run the coax forward through the overhead panel or
back and down a side of the fuselage.=C2- The tape is available from=C2
-AS for a very reasonable=C2-price.=C2- As far as toroids go, I would
n't bother.=C2-=C2-This orientation would put the signal you want broad
side of the antenna, which is exactly what you need.=C2- The VOR antenna
will be receive only, so if it is correctly tuned with a bridge, dipper, or
antenna scope when installed,=C2-it will be fine.=C2- To start with, t
he standard formula for VHF is (5904 * K) /Frequency in MHZ.=C2- K is a v
ariable based on the size of the conductor, for copper tape,=C2-I=C2-wo
uld use about .95.=C2- The answer is in inches .=C2- If it is receive o
nly, I don't think it would even be necessary to tune it, the formula shoul
d be clos e enough.=C2- The whole thing should be about a one hour projec
t.=C2-
Jim Puglise A-283 (K9CQ)=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- =C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 12:00:48 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Europa-List: VOR antennas et all
Cheers,
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-I note the level of discuss
ion about antennas rising again, so will
make my pitch for an alternative.........
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Being both, along with seve
ral others on net, I have found a strange
sameness in the two groups. Building planes and radios seem to attract
similar folk in that there's a certain camaraderie, helpfulness and
reasonableness to both groups. And, it appears that given the opportunity
each admires and is curious about the other. Even the regular meetings seem
to acquire the same atmosphere.
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Given that, I have always s
uggested a builder of aircraft who needs
advice or measuring in the radio line contact his/her local Amateur Radio
club and solicit a dash of help in citing or measuring the antenna, both th
e
Av VHF, Beacon, VOR and assorted accessory freqs. It might be surprising to
find hams outbidding each other to come, see your project - pick the
gray-haired samples as they have tried it all because they are forever
trying to string up temporary, emergency and strange aerials everywhere.
Such items as airborne IRLP, APRS and other facets might come up....
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-Anyway, I'll go now....
Ferg
Europa Classic 914 CSprop
Message 14
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| Subject: | Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Europa-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Europa-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Europa-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
europa-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "europa-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Europa-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Europa-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/europa-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Europa-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Europa-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Europa-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Europa-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Europa-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Europa-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Europa
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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