---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/05/09: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:14 AM - Re: Engine quits at full throttle (craig bastin) 2. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Engine quits at full throttle (mau11) 3. 09:13 AM - Re: Engine quits at full throttle (rampil) 4. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: Engine quits at full throttle (Robert Borger) 5. 11:49 AM - Mechanical fuel pump - replacement of (Bob Fairall) 6. 12:35 PM - Re: Engine quits at full throttle (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:36 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Engine quits at full throttle Not that I am a rotax expert, but from my car tuning and racing experience, I would suggest that either your pump/s are not able to keep up with demand from the carbs (unlikely, given you are running two), you have and open return line??? (you did put the restrictor in the return line AFTER the carbs), or your carbs are WAY WAY TOO lean and you simply don't have enough fuel entering the engine to keep it running at full throttle. This is the most likely situation IMHO assuming you have the restrictor installed. An excessively lean mix could also account for the lack of MP at full throttle. No fuel to burn means no expanding gasses so no pressure to drive the impeller side of the turbo, so less boost than expected so a lower MP than expected. You can get some good automotive lean/rich gauges for around $100 these day, if you lift the needles in your carbs a bit and it runs better, I would suggest you invest in one to get your mix right. Failing that, you mentioned contaminated fuel filter, have you checked to see if the fuel is leaving the tank freely, by dropping the fuel line off the carb and see how much fuel comes out when the pumps are on. hope this helps craig kit 577 vh-xsv _ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:24 AM PST US From: "mau11" Subject: Re: RE: Europa-List: Engine quits at full throttle X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 10, 201, 20 [-fr-] aEkgYWxsLA0KaXMgYW55b25lIGtub3cgYSBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgcmVzb2x2ZSB0aGUgaWduaXRp b24gc2hpZWxkIHRvIHN0b3AgZW5naW5lIG9uIHRoZSA5MTI/DQoNClRoYW5rcw0KDQoNCg0KDQoN Cm1hdTExDQoyMDA5LTA5LTA1DQoNCg0KDQpFbiBy6XBvbnNlIGF1IG1lc3NhZ2UNCmRlIDogY3Jh aWcgYmFzdGluDQpkdSA6IDIwMDktMDktMDUgMTU6MTg6MDUNCsAgOiBldXJvcGEtbGlzdEBtYXRy b25pY3MuY29tDQpDQyA6IA0KU3VqZXQgOiBSRTogRXVyb3BhLUxpc3Q6IEVuZ2luZSBxdWl0cyBh dCBmdWxsIHRocm90dGxlDQoNCi0tID4gRXVyb3BhLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJj cmFpZyBiYXN0aW4iICA8Y3JhaWdiQG9udGhlbmV0LmNvbS5hdSA+DQoNCk5vdCB0aGF0IEkgYW0g YSByb3RheCBleHBlcnQsIGJ1dCBmcm9tIG15IGNhciB0dW5pbmcgYW5kIHJhY2luZyBleHBlcmll bmNlLA0KSSB3b3VsZCBzdWdnZXN0DQp0aGF0IGVpdGhlciB5b3VyIHB1bXAvcyBhcmUgbm90IGFi bGUgdG8ga2VlcCB1cCB3aXRoIGRlbWFuZCBmcm9tIHRoZSBjYXJicw0KKHVubGlrZWx5LCBnaXZl bg0KeW91IGFyZSBydW5uaW5nIHR3byksIHlvdSBoYXZlIGFuZCBvcGVuIHJldHVybiBsaW5lPz8/ ICh5b3UgZGlkIHB1dCB0aGUNCnJlc3RyaWN0b3IgaW4gdGhlIHJldHVybiBsaW5lDQpBRlRFUiB0 aGUgY2FyYnMpLCBvciB5b3VyIGNhcmJzIGFyZSBXQVkgV0FZIFRPTyBsZWFuIGFuZCB5b3Ugc2lt cGx5IGRvbid0DQpoYXZlIGVub3VnaCBmdWVsIGVudGVyaW5nDQp0aGUgZW5naW5lIHRvIGtlZXAg aXQgcnVubmluZyBhdCBmdWxsIHRocm90dGxlLiBUaGlzIGlzIHRoZSBtb3N0IGxpa2VseQ0Kc2l0 dWF0aW9uIElNSE8gYXNzdW1pbmcgeW91IGhhdmUNCnRoZSByZXN0cmljdG9yIGluc3RhbGxlZC4g QW4gZXhjZXNzaXZlbHkgbGVhbiBtaXggY291bGQgYWxzbyBhY2NvdW50IGZvciB0aGUNCmxhY2sg b2YgTVAgYXQgZnVsbCB0aHJvdHRsZS4NCk5vIGZ1ZWwgdG8gYnVybiBtZWFucyBubyBleHBhbmRp bmcgZ2Fzc2VzIHNvIG5vIHByZXNzdXJlIHRvIGRyaXZlIHRoZQ0KaW1wZWxsZXIgc2lkZSBvZiB0 aGUgdHVyYm8sIHNvIGxlc3MNCmJvb3N0IHRoYW4gZXhwZWN0ZWQgc28gYSBsb3dlciBNUCB0aGFu IGV4cGVjdGVkLg0KDQpZb3UgY2FuIGdldCBzb21lIGdvb2QgYXV0b21vdGl2ZSBsZWFuL3JpY2gg Z2F1Z2VzIGZvciBhcm91bmQgJDEwMCB0aGVzZSBkYXksDQppZiB5b3UgbGlmdCB0aGUgbmVlZGxl cyBpbiB5b3VyIGNhcmJzDQphIGJpdCBhbmQgaXQgcnVucyBiZXR0ZXIsIEkgd291bGQgc3VnZ2Vz dCB5b3UgaW52ZXN0IGluIG9uZSB0byBnZXQgeW91ciBtaXgNCnJpZ2h0LiBGYWlsaW5nIHRoYXQs IHlvdSBtZW50aW9uZWQgY29udGFtaW5hdGVkDQpmdWVsIGZpbHRlciwgaGF2ZSB5b3UgY2hlY2tl ZCB0byBzZWUgaWYgdGhlIGZ1ZWwgaXMgbGVhdmluZyB0aGUgdGFuayBmcmVlbHksDQpieSBkcm9w cGluZyB0aGUgZnVlbCBsaW5lIG9mZiB0aGUgY2FyYg0KYW5kIHNlZSBob3cgbXVjaCBmdWVsIGNv bWVzIG91dCB3aGVuIHRoZSBwdW1wcyBhcmUgb24uDQoNCmhvcGUgdGhpcyBoZWxwcw0KDQpjcmFp Zw0KDQpraXQgNTc3DQp2aC14c3YNCg0KXw0KDQoNCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgLSBUaGUg RXVyb3BhLUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KXy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVh dHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQ0KXy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1 Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sDQpfLT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2ggJiBEb3dubG9h ZCwgNy1EYXkgQnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBGQVEsDQpfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVj aCBtb3JlOg0KXy09DQpfLT0gICAtLSA+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0 b3I/RXVyb3BhLUxpc3QNCl8tPQ0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTUFUUk9OSUNT IFdFQiBGT1JVTVMgLQ0KXy09IFNhbWUgZ3JlYXQgY29udGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB2aWEg dGhlIFdlYiBGb3J1bXMhDQpfLT0NCl8tPSAgIC0tID4gaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3Mu Y29tDQpfLT0NCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBMaXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIg U2l0ZSAtDQpfLT0gIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQ0KXy09ICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLg0KXy09 ICAgLS0gPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQpfLT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0K ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:01 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Engine quits at full throttle From: "rampil" Hey Bob, Similar story on my flight tests. Check for soot on bottom of your carbs. On mine, one of the exhaust pipes would come lose at full throttle only, and just enough to boil the fuel in one float bowl! Good Luck, Ira -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261595#261595 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:20 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Engine quits at full throttle Ira, Thanks. I'm going to run more checks tomorrow. I'll check for the loose exhaust. Best regards, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL Aircraft Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Sep 5, 2009, at 11:11, rampil wrote: > > Hey Bob, > > Similar story on my flight tests. Check for soot on bottom of your > carbs. On mine, one of the exhaust pipes would come lose at full > throttle only, and just enough to boil the fuel in one float bowl! > > Good Luck, > > Ira > > -------- > Ira N224XS ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:38 AM PST US From: "Bob Fairall" Subject: Europa-List: Mechanical fuel pump - replacement of Hi Europa folk, My 'Classic' is fitted with a Pierburg mechanical fuel pump on its 80hp Rotax 912. The part number appears to be 971 65 5-255. The fuel pump is now some 12 years old and I want to change it, but have found this Pierburg pump ceased to be manufactured about 4 years ago. There is a substitute fuel pump made by AC, but this is slightly longer and fouls the starboard side radiator. I'm wondering whether anyone else has come across this problem before and whether there is a solution anyone can offer me please (that isn't a relocation of the radiators!). Thanks Bob Fairall G-BXLK, kit 71, 400 hours flying and counting, and also kit no 494 slowly making progress. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:36 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Engine quits at full throttle Bob, Sorry to hear about your engine woes. >From my experience in the shop here are some things I've run into: Check that there is not 912S restrictor in your return line for the 914. The restrictor is necessary in the 912S but Rotax forbids it in the 914. Make sure the return is not pinched either. See your install manual on line with Rotax. Don't make the mistake of swapping the fuel intake line and return lines. (Believe it or not the engine runs, but goofs up the fuel metering as one would expect, and won't accelerate properly or hit top end.) I hate to admit that I have seen one fuel pump hooked up backwards electrically, and due to plumbing wouldn't feed enough fuel for full power, but it would start... Check your airbox and static pressure sensors aren't clogged or kinked, or worse yet still plugged. The new 914s have the removable fuel pans, and easy access to the float bowls. Pull them and check for crap. If dirty, get a rebuild kit and clean up the carbs. Since you have 10 hours on your engine, it may be a mute point by now but fuel quality is a combination of the source and materials quality in the plane... Fuel lines are not shipped clean and there is residue in them as well as the tank. Fuel with ethanol will clean better than Av gas. FBO's do filter their gas to a very high standard, but I find very fine white organic material in it that my filters found, so think about pre filtering your fuel. Since doing so I've had no problems. My technique for assuring clean fuel tank and lines: First. Get a pre filter funnel for your fuel. Fill the tank to the neck with 20 gallons of premium unleaded with ethanol. Shake the aircraft and check for leaks. Next, disconnect the fuel delivery line at the engine fuel regulator and pump the fuel back into the cans, alternating between main and reserve sides. The filters will clean the tank. The pre tank filter funnel will clean the fuel going back in. Fill again, and allow to sit. More will settle, so repeat the fuel straining. Then I do it one more time (total of three times) to insure tank and more importantly the lines are clean. Fuel lines are notorious about being dirty. I don't use the filtering gas for my first engine run, I Premium gas or Av gas. While doing the above, do a flow and pressure check. I have a valve hooked to the line off the aircraft fuel line with a T and fuel pressure gauge to check for fuel delivery pressure and and volume. It is also a good time to adjust the fuel flow measuring sensors. If you have in and out metering, hook the delivery line to the return line and circulate the fuel. Fuel flow should read zero. (912S owners can do this with one fuel flow device and the restrictor installed and measure the flow rate and pressure delivery with fuel returning to the tank.) Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.