Today's Message Index:
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1. 12:27 AM - Re: Engine quits at full throttle (Richard Sementilli)
2. 04:51 AM - Re: Engine quits at full throttle (Jim Brown)
3. 07:31 AM - Re: Engine quits at full throttle (h&jeuropa)
4. 09:09 AM - Rough River Speaker (JEFF ROBERTS)
5. 10:00 AM - Re: Rough River Speaker (Greg Fuchs)
6. 11:52 AM - Engine quits at full throttle (David Stanbridge)
7. 01:11 PM - Re: Engine quits at full throttle (Robert Borger)
8. 07:43 PM - Re: Rough River Speaker (Paul McAllister)
9. 08:07 PM - Re: Rough River Speaker (Robert Borger)
10. 11:25 PM - Re: Fitting doors (danbish)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine quits at full throttle |
Always nice to hear your wisdom Bud!
Thanks,
RS
On Sep 5, 2009, at 3:28 PM, "Bud Yerly" <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Sorry to hear about your engine woes.
> From my experience in the shop here are some things I've run into:
>
> Check that there is not 912S restrictor in your return line for the
> 914. The restrictor is necessary in the 912S but Rotax forbids it
> in the 914. Make sure the return is not pinched either. See your
> install manual on line with Rotax.
>
> Don't make the mistake of swapping the fuel intake line and return
> lines. (Believe it or not the engine runs, but goofs up the fuel
> metering as one would expect, and won't accelerate properly or hit
> top end.)
>
> I hate to admit that I have seen one fuel pump hooked up backwards
> electrically, and due to plumbing wouldn't feed enough fuel for full
> power, but it would start...
>
> Check your airbox and static pressure sensors aren't clogged or
> kinked, or worse yet still plugged.
>
> The new 914s have the removable fuel pans, and easy access to the
> float bowls. Pull them and check for crap.
> If dirty, get a rebuild kit and clean up the carbs.
>
> Since you have 10 hours on your engine, it may be a mute point by
> now but fuel quality is a combination of the source and materials
> quality in the plane... Fuel lines are not shipped clean and there
> is residue in them as well as the tank. Fuel with ethanol will
> clean better than Av gas.
>
> FBO's do filter their gas to a very high standard, but I find very
> fine white organic material in it that my filters found, so think
> about pre filtering your fuel. Since doing so I've had no problems.
>
> My technique for assuring clean fuel tank and lines:
> First. Get a pre filter funnel for your fuel. Fill the tank to the
> neck with 20 gallons of premium unleaded with ethanol. Shake the
> aircraft and check for leaks.
>
> Next, disconnect the fuel delivery line at the engine fuel regulator
> and pump the fuel back into the cans, alternating between main and
> reserve sides. The filters will clean the tank. The pre tank
> filter funnel will clean the fuel going back in. Fill again, and
> allow to sit. More will settle, so repeat the fuel straining. Then
> I do it one more time (total of three times) to insure tank and more
> importantly the lines are clean. Fuel lines are notorious about
> being dirty. I don't use the filtering gas for my first engine run,
> I Premium gas or Av gas.
>
> While doing the above, do a flow and pressure check. I have a valve
> hooked to the line off the aircraft fuel line with a T and fuel
> pressure gauge to check for fuel delivery pressure and and volume.
> It is also a good time to adjust the fuel flow measuring sensors.
> If you have in and out metering, hook the delivery line to the
> return line and circulate the fuel. Fuel flow should read zero.
> (912S owners can do this with one fuel flow device and the
> restrictor installed and measure the flow rate and pressure delivery
> with fuel returning to the tank.)
>
> Bud Yerly
> Custom Flight Creations
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine quits at full throttle |
Bob
-
On the full power check, with the plane tied down you stated that at 5790 R
PM you had 36 inches MP. Then you stated-when you advanced the throttle
-to past-37.5 inches MP the engine quit... What was the RPM at 37.5 inc
hes MP ? Did the engine RPM exceed 5800 RPM ? to reach the 37.5 Inches MP ?
-
At 5800 RPM you should be seeing 39 to 40 inches MP.
-
When you installed the Airmaster prop, did you set the high RPM "stop" in t
he hub to limit RPM to 5800.???- In order to get full boost of the turbo
you must have the throttle wide open, with the RPM's being goverened by the
prop hub.- This can only be done by setting the prop pitch to limit the
max RPM to 5800.
-
If you did not, the Airmaster-installation manual tells you how to do thi
s. It must be done for proper operation of the engine. And also to prevent
overspeed of the engine on takeoff....
-
Jim Brown
--- On Fri, 9/4/09, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Engine quits at full throttle
Fellow Europaphiles:
I'm at 10.5 hrs on my XS Monowheel.- (Just getting the hang of landing it
on pavement)- As you can see from the signature block it has a Rotax 914
and Airmaster C/S prop.- On the last flight the engine developed a surge
and a miss at full throttle at about 500' on takeoff.- When I retarded t
he throttle and surge stopped and miss went away.---After immediate R
TB, pulled the upper cowl and began an inspection.- 1st thing noticed was
that it was not really obtaining full throttle.- Only about 37.5 in MP.
- Full throttle is 39 in MP and- 37 - 38 in MP is in the unstable range
for the turbo controller.- That explained the surging.- Located the re
ason the throttle wasn't going to max and fixed it.- Also checked both fu
el filters.- Secondary was fine.- Main was had considerable crud so it
was replaced.---I can now get full throttle.- Re-synched the carbs.
- Runs nice and smooth.
Now here's what happened today on a full-power, chocks-in, tail tied down,
run-up test.
Engine starts immediately.- I kept the idle at 2000 - 2100 RPM to warm up
.
Engine warmed up, all temps and pressures in the green.- Prop controller
set Auto and T/O.- Main and Boost pumps are both on,
Advance throttle.- Everything is OK up to engine RPM 5790 & MP 36 in.
When the throttle is advanced beyond 37.5 in MP the engine quits.- Like f
uel starved or ignition cuts out.- It just quits.
Retard throttle back below 37.5 in MP and it re-starts and runs smoothly.
Throttled back to 4000 RPM and did a "mag" check.- Left-Off drop is about
275 RPM, Right-Off drop is 305 - 310 RPM.
Throttle back to idle and shut off ignition, the engine stops and after abo
ut 15 seconds there was a large backfire through the exhaust (first time fo
r that!).
Engine has only run on 100LL with appropriate amounts of Decalin TCP & Marv
el Mystery Oil to help with the lead situation.- Oil is still nice and cl
ear.
Do any of you Rotax Gurus have a suggestion as to why the engine cuts out w
hen full throttle is applied?- Any suggestion for things to check and/or
fix?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Aircraft Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX- 76208
Home:- 940-497-2123
Cel:- 817-992-1117
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine quits at full throttle |
Bob,
Did you try hooking up a computer to the TCU and using the TLR program so see what
the TCU is seeing? There is the monitor portion of the software and also
a history portion that collects some historical data. That might point you to
the problem. Helped us a couple of weeks ago.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261731#261731
Message 4
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| Subject: | Rough River Speaker |
Hi All,
I flew to breakfast at Winchester Tennessee BGF and sat down to eat.
About 10 minutes into the conversation with the people I happened to
set across from I realized that I was talking to Mike & Sanday Loehle
from Loehle Aircraft Corp. www.loehle.com
Most of you probable know this but they make some darn nice low cost
replica WW 2 aircraft kits. His biggest contribution to all of us
builders though are his aircraft coatings. He says he has a product
that virtually eliminates the fight against pin holes. I only wish I
had the product he described before completing Gold Rush. Anyway when I
mentioned our fly-in at Rough River he mentioned that a local EAA
chapter had invited him to speak on his aircraft coatings that same
weekend south of Louisville KY. I ask him if he would be interested in
addressing our group while he was up there. Both him and his wife (Very
Good People) said they would love to. So let me know what you all think
and I'll call him to find out when. For those of you not priming yet
this could be a godsend.
Best Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 198 hours and cooling great!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Rough River Speaker |
My planes not done, so I will not be at Rough River (self imposed
restriction), but I was planning on using Loehle products for the major
work, when filling and painting time arrives. Have heard good things about
the product.
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:08 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Rough River Speaker
Hi All,
I flew to breakfast at Winchester Tennessee BGF and sat down to eat. About
10 minutes into the conversation with the people I happened to set across
from I realized that I was talking to Mike & Sanday Loehle from Loehle
Aircraft Corp. www.loehle.com
Most of you probable know this but they make some darn nice low cost replica
WW 2 aircraft kits. His biggest contribution to all of us builders though
are his aircraft coatings. He says he has a product that virtually
eliminates the fight against pin holes. I only wish I had the product he
described before completing Gold Rush. Anyway when I mentioned our fly-in at
Rough River he mentioned that a local EAA chapter had invited him to speak
on his aircraft coatings that same weekend south of Louisville KY. I ask him
if he would be interested in addressing our group while he was up there.
Both him and his wife (Very Good People) said they would love to. So let me
know what you all think and I'll call him to find out when. For those of you
not priming yet this could be a godsend.
Best Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 198 hours and cooling great!
Message 6
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| Subject: | Engine quits at full throttle |
I had exactly the same problem this weekend with the rpm cycling
between 4500 and 4800 on a 914 fitted with a Airmaster propeller. The
probem was found to be the sealing of the carburettor sumps to the
main body. After diassembling these to see if there was any crud at
the bottom, which there was not, and putting them together the issues
disappeared.
Hope this is of some help.
Dave Stanbridge
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine quits at full throttle |
Fellow Europaphiles,
Update as of this morning, 2009 09 06.
Over the last two days, I have checked all the areas recommended by
you folks. Lots of good ideas! Thanks to those who took the time to
call. I appreciate all the help.
Everything checks out so far without tearing down the carbs. I've
reached the point where I need a better check of the airbox/fuel
differential pressure. It could very well be that there was
insufficient fuel pressure at full boost to over come that level of
boost. The UMA gage and sender I have installed seem to be binary,
either 0 or 1. And that's not right. It should read between 2 and 5
PSI. Tomorrow I'll be evaluating why the differential pressure isn't
reading properly.
I have completed six full power run-ups. Three yesterday and three
today. The engine performed perfectly at all times.
Engine started before three blades went by. Maintained idle in the
2000 - 2100 RPM to warm up.
Once the engine warmed up and all temperatures were in the normal
operating range I confirmed that the prop was in Auto and T/O.
Advanced the throttle slowly, watching RPM and MP.
At full throttle the engine was turning 5750 RPM and 39 in MP. Fuel
flow was 8.1 to 8.2 GPH (roughly 32 L/H for you folks in Europe).
Right on the chart numbers.
The engine was very smooth, no surging, no missing, no hesitations, no
sign of stopping.
I held it at full throttle for about 30 seconds and then brought it
back gently to idle. Allowed it to idle for a minute or so before the
next run to full power.
Yesterday and today, the final full power run was held for a full
minute.
After the final run, the throttle was gently returned to idle (1900
RPM) and the engine allowed to idle for at least 1 minute to allow the
turbo to cool down.
And the engine was shut down with the Ignition switches.
Tomorrow I will be looking at the differential pressure gage package
to see what's wrong with it. The 914 really needs an accurate
differential pressure indication.
I'll keep you posted,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Aircraft Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Sep 4, 2009, at 16:29, Robert Borger wrote:
>
> Fellow Europaphiles:
>
> I'm at 10.5 hrs on my XS Monowheel. (Just getting the hang of
> landing it on pavement) As you can see from the signature block it
> has a Rotax 914 and Airmaster C/S prop. On the last flight the
> engine developed a surge and a miss at full throttle at about 500'
> on takeoff. When I retarded the throttle and surge stopped and miss
> went away. After immediate RTB, pulled the upper cowl and began an
> inspection. 1st thing noticed was that it was not really obtaining
> full throttle. Only about 37.5 in MP. Full throttle is 39 in MP
> and 37 - 38 in MP is in the unstable range for the turbo
> controller. That explained the surging. Located the reason the
> throttle wasn't going to max and fixed it. Also checked both fuel
> filters. Secondary was fine. Main was had considerable crud so it
> was replaced. I can now get full throttle. Re-synched the carbs.
> Runs nice and smooth.
>
> Now here's what happened today on a full-power, chocks-in, tail tied
> down, run-up test.
>
> Engine starts immediately. I kept the idle at 2000 - 2100 RPM to
> warm up.
> Engine warmed up, all temps and pressures in the green. Prop
> controller set Auto and T/O. Main and Boost pumps are both on,
> Advance throttle. Everything is OK up to engine RPM 5790 & MP 36 in.
> When the throttle is advanced beyond 37.5 in MP the engine quits.
> Like fuel starved or ignition cuts out. It just quits.
> Retard throttle back below 37.5 in MP and it re-starts and runs
> smoothly.
> Throttled back to 4000 RPM and did a "mag" check. Left-Off drop is
> about 275 RPM, Right-Off drop is 305 - 310 RPM.
> Throttle back to idle and shut off ignition, the engine stops and
> after about 15 seconds there was a large backfire through the
> exhaust (first time for that!).
> Engine has only run on 100LL with appropriate amounts of Decalin TCP
> & Marvel Mystery Oil to help with the lead situation. Oil is still
> nice and clear.
>
> Do any of you Rotax Gurus have a suggestion as to why the engine
> cuts out when full throttle is applied? Any suggestion for things
> to check and/or fix?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help,
> Bob Borger
> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
> http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
> Aircraft Flying!
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208
> Home: 940-497-2123
> Cel: 817-992-1117
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rough River Speaker |
Hey Jeff,
Bring 'em along, the more the merrier !!
Paul
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rough River Speaker |
Jeff,
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Aircraft Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:07, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
> Hi All,
> I flew to breakfast at Winchester Tennessee BGF and sat down to eat.
> About 10 minutes into the conversation with the people I happened to
> set across from I realized that I was talking to Mike & Sanday
> Loehle from Loehle Aircraft Corp. www.loehle.com
> Most of you probable know this but they make some darn nice low cost
> replica WW 2 aircraft kits. His biggest contribution to all of us
> builders though are his aircraft coatings. He says he has a product
> that virtually eliminates the fight against pin holes. I only wish I
> had the product he described before completing Gold Rush. Anyway
> when I mentioned our fly-in at Rough River he mentioned that a local
> EAA chapter had invited him to speak on his aircraft coatings that
> same weekend south of Louisville KY. I ask him if he would be
> interested in addressing our group while he was up there. Both him
> and his wife (Very Good People) said they would love to. So let me
> know what you all think and I'll call him to find out when. For
> those of you not priming yet this could be a godsend.
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Jeff R.
> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 198 hours and cooling great!
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting doors |
Hi Rick,
Based on your kit number, you may have the same issue I had a month back when I
started this process. If you search my name, you may find the thread and the
answers I got from Bud and others regarding this.
Evidently, the earlier kits have a wood insert built in. Mine is A144 and the insert
is visible from inside the fuselage looking up at where the door tang sits,
just under where the hinges will go. So you won't need a wood insert but there's
still a gap between the hinges and where they sit on the fuselage, so I
put in a mixture of dry-ish flox then release film on top, then clamped the doors
in place with the hinges already 5-min glued on. Put a piece of sponge inside
the hinges to get them to press outwardly and make a good impression on the
flox.
Once cured, I clean them up, scrape off a mm or so then put down 2x layers of bid,
making sure everything positioned correctly. I could've done the bid at the
same time, but I like to make sure it's all positioned correctly first. I clamp
the door & hinges in place while this is curing also.
Once all that is cured up, I'm ready to drill the holes from the hinges into the
door tangs then use a forester bit to make the recess around where the nuts
will go, per the manual.
Now, with the doors clamped back in place, drill straight down through the door
tangs through the fuselage and you're almost done.
One change I made was to increase the screw size to 1/4" on the top hinge. That
size screw is easier to make the correct countersink for without weakening the
hinge and it's just a little more substantial for the door. Probably overkill
but doesn't hurt anything.
You'll want to check the thickness of your perspex as mine is 1mm thicker than
normal and I had to remove some material from the inside of the door flange. Did
that today - messy job, lots of fine dust.
Just got the starboard door finished today and have the port side clamped onto
the flox as per above so we're at about the same place on this. Look at my album
for photos, though I have it pretty much simplified now. The 2nd door is going
MUCH faster.
Good luck!
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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