---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/20/09: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:20 AM - Dynon remote compas and brake caliper (Michel AUVRAY) 2. 02:29 AM - Requirements for registering an aircraft in France (Colin John Howard Richardson) 3. 02:30 AM - Re: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper () 4. 05:13 AM - Re: Mono Inner Tyre Failures (Jim Brown) 5. 09:47 AM - Re: Mono Inner Tyre Failures (Fred Klein) 6. 09:47 AM - Re: Rough River Weather (Fred Klein) 7. 12:25 PM - Re: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 8. 12:25 PM - Re: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper (Richard Scanlan) 9. 12:25 PM - Re: Mono Inner Tyre Failures (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 10. 01:51 PM - Re: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper (ploucandco) 11. 02:13 PM - Re: Mono Inner Tyre Failures (K BURNS) 12. 02:37 PM - Re: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper (William Harrison) 13. 02:44 PM - Re: Mono Inner Tyre Failures (Robert C Harrison) 14. 04:47 PM - Re: Mono Inner Tyre Failures () 15. 04:55 PM - Europa performance (Gustavo Sessarego) 16. 05:33 PM - Outrigger lengths (Fred Klein) 17. 05:34 PM - Re: Europa performance (Tom Friedland) 18. 05:51 PM - Re: Europa performance (Gustavo Sessarego) 19. 07:23 PM - Re: Mono Inner Tyre Failures (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:28 AM PST US From: Michel AUVRAY Subject: Europa-List: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper Hi all, 1 I install the Dynon D10A and remote compas. Where is the best position of the remote compas? 2 Does anyone know a brake caliper (cleveland or other) more efficient than Europa caliper. Thank you -- --|-- --------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY mau11@free.fr ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:46 AM PST US From: Colin John Howard Richardson Subject: Europa-List: Requirements for registering an aircraft in France
Europhiles in France, I will be permanently moving to France ( Villeneuve sur Lot ) in November and as I seem to be unable to sell my Classic tri-gear I will have to take it with me ! Could anyone please tell me what I have to do to import the aircraft to France, and what other steps are necessary to remain legal ? The aircraft has a UK Permit until June 2010. Many thanks John Richardson Classic Tri-gear, 912S, Airmaster prop, TT airframe 175hrs, TT engine 65hrs. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:22 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper Hi Michel I put mine in the bottom fuselage in front of the fuel tank, Buts its pretty busy there with wiring and pipe work, so have been unable to get it within 15 degrees of compass heading, This winter I will be moving it to the headlining space between the doors, My compass is in a pod there and works well so hopefully the Dynon will be more accurate, regards Ivor ---- Michel AUVRAY wrote: > > Hi all, > 1 I install the Dynon D10A and remote compas. > Where is the best position of the remote compas? > > 2 Does anyone know a brake caliper (cleveland or other) more > efficient than Europa caliper. > > Thank you > > > -- > > --|-- > --------(*)-------- > Michel AUVRAY > mau11@free.fr > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:23 AM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures Paul - I have been following this thread on flats,-and I have a few points to ma ke, that have worked for me. - I have been flying my monowheel almost ten years off paved runway's...My ki t included the old "tundra tire" and instructions to use low pressure,(I do n't remember PSI, but the sidewalls rubbed the Landing gear frame.) The pla ne taxied like it was runing in mud.. - I changed that tire at about 20 hours to a 700 X 6 and 6 plys and used 30 P SI. The plane is much easier to taxi, take off's are much quicker, and in 8 00 hours I have replaced two tires that were worn out. No flats !!!! I can' t say that the air pressure is the problem, and also I don't fly off grass, but I have not had the problems that so many of you are having. - On another note having made the above change I also changed the outrigger l engths, as the new tire, with higher pressure made the original outriggers to short. Over the past ten years I have extened the outriggers in length, to now when the plane is parked, both outriggers touch the ground. For me g round handling is much better, and in landing with the longer outriggers th e "rocking from one outrigger to the other" is now gone. - Also another question ? Are the flats limited to the Monowheels ??? Are-a re the tri gears having this problem?- - Jim Brown XS Monowheel. --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Paul McAllister wrote: From: Paul McAllister Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures com> Hi, I have this happen regularly.- I now just change them every 100 hours and I never travel without my jacking block and a spare inner tube.- I have tried inner tube talcum powder and different pressures with out much improvement. The failure mode seems to be chafing on the side wall due to running such- low pressure. Paul On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > All > > I have lost without visible or known reason two innner tyres in my > Monowheel. > > Loosing suddenly main gear=B4s air pressure is not a funny game and did n ot > make my day actually. le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:35 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures On Sep 20, 2009, at 5:10 AM, Jim Brown wrote: > Over the past ten years I have extened the outriggers in length, to > now when the plane is parked, both outriggers touch the ground. For > me ground handling is much better, and in landing with the longer > outriggers the "rocking from one outrigger to the other" is now gone. Jim, Have you made the outriggers longer incrementally over the years or in one fell swoop? Would you venture an opinion as to whether or not the shorter legs were advantageous initially as you familiarized yourself w/ the mono? Sounds like you've had excellent results w/ the smaller tire at higher pressure on the hardsurface runways you use...thanks for putting your oar in to this discussion. Fred A194 XS mono ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:35 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough River Weather On Sep 19, 2009, at 12:27 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > Maybe we all need to start our own DOTH to somewhere here in the > states. Jeff, What a fabulous set up you've created...outstanding!..thanks for the pixs. Your new turf will be well-established by the time I'm airborne...I can hardly wait! Fred do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:26 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper Good Afternoon Michel, As I am going with the conventional gear I can't advise on another brake caliper because you may have bolt pattern and size limitations to consider. I have my battery on top of the passenger footwell and so the little platform that I did during the build in the normal location behind the rear bulkhead was available for me to mount the remote compass. While I am not flying yet, I have had my panel running and it seems to match the compass above my windshield. It seems to be out of the way of most of my electrical runs. But this is just a suggestion. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300A Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:26 PM PST US From: "Richard Scanlan" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper I'm running the D180 and installed the compass between the two rudder cable pulleys. I've not flown yet but the calibration with the ground compass went fine and it lines up with the analogue compass. Be careful with the O.A.T. probe if you're running one as it must be wired through the remote compass. Richard Scanlan #103 ready to fly -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel AUVRAY Sent: 20 September 2009 08:16 Subject: Europa-List: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper Hi all, 1 I install the Dynon D10A and remote compas. Where is the best position of the remote compas? 2 Does anyone know a brake caliper (cleveland or other) more efficient than Europa caliper. Thank you -- --|-- --------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY mau11@free.fr Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:22:00 -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:26 PM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures << Are the tri gears having this problem?>> Or the Taildraggers; the answer to which is no, except early on when using cheaper non-aviation inner tubes resulting in two punctures, one during landing. These appeared to have resulted from internal abrasion/stressing of the inner tube (possibly some dirt in there), rather than from a projectile. Therein should lie a lesson. The proper inner tubes have lasted 350+ hours, although don't hold air as well as would be expected; may try some 'Slime'-equivalent!. Duncan McF ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Brown To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 1:10 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures Paul I have been following this thread on flats, and I have a few points to make, that have worked for me. I have been flying my monowheel almost ten years off paved runway's...My kit included the old "tundra tire" and instructions to use low pressure,(I don't remember PSI, but the sidewalls rubbed the Landing gear frame.) The plane taxied like it was runing in mud.. I changed that tire at about 20 hours to a 700 X 6 and 6 plys and used 30 PSI. The plane is much easier to taxi, take off's are much quicker, and in 800 hours I have replaced two tires that were worn out. No flats !!!! I can't say that the air pressure is the problem, and also I don't fly off grass, but I have not had the problems that so many of you are having. On another note having made the above change I also changed the outrigger lengths, as the new tire, with higher pressure made the original outriggers to short. Over the past ten years I have extened the outriggers in length, to now when the plane is parked, both outriggers touch the ground. For me ground handling is much better, and in landing with the longer outriggers the "rocking from one outrigger to the other" is now gone. Also another question ? Are the flats limited to the Monowheels ??? Are are the tri gears having this problem? Jim Brown XS Monowheel. --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Paul McAllister wrote: From: Paul McAllister Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures To: europa-list@matronics.com Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 12:32 PM Hi, I have this happen regularly. I now just change them every 100 hours and I never travel without my jacking block and a spare inner tube. I have tried inner tube talcum powder and different pressures with out much improvement. The failure mode seems to be chafing on the side wall due to running such low pressure. Paul On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > All > > I have lost without visible or known reason two innner tyres in my > Monowheel. > > Loosing suddenly main gear=B4s air pressure is not a funny game and did not >om/Navigator?Europa-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigatosp; - MATRONICS WEB FO/" ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin========= ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:00 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper From: "ploucandco" Hi Michel, I have the Dynon remote compas under the pilot seat. Works well. Have fun. Jacques Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264000#264000 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:41 PM PST US From: K BURNS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures Anyone running nitrogen instead of air ? Common aviation practice, it is inert, and removing oxygen results in less rubber corrosion, more stable tyre pressures with temperature change. On a pushbike inner tube I have observed seams that wear out causing punctures due to side wall flex. Tyre side wall failure stressing and wearing through the side wall causing punctures. Side wall flex increases with lower tyre presures and heat build up. Buy the best quality tubes (and tyres) you can get..thickest rubber from recognised manufacturers...Chinese rubbers are not as corrosive resistant and age leak earlier. I used slime on a 120 hp motorcycle and pulled three nails out in consecutive weeks with no loss of pressure (tubless)and used the bike untill the tyre wore out as a chase bike while instructing... Was originaly recognised as a safety feature(it works) but sold now in UK for ATV/off road use due to fears of litigation..(tyre will fail catastropicaly if side wall/cord is damaged) (I also ran my MC school bikes on it and it saved down time,but on tubed rims any puncture object would be removed & new tube fitted in case it the tube splits. Daily inspection of wheels should include pressure..learn to judge from tyre profile & contact area, tyre creep, paint on tell tails. Side wall damage,cuts splits especialy cords, bulges...run your hand around the profile and feel for bulges (Snapped internal cords/failed carcase)can feel like an out of balance wheel when rolling. Also inspect hub for damage and tail wheel rotates on its bearings. On a motorcycle we increase tyre pressure for additional load to compensate for additional tyre wall flex,maintain proper contact patch and grip for braking, I allowed 5 psi increase for 150 lb load increase (medium passenger)..Use as rule of thumb adjust acording to fuel load also? Use your eyes and look at which parts of your tyre is wearing out first..centre thin line, too high a presure. outer of the tyre too soft increase. 5 psi at a time from recomended is a safe comparison point. Use an acurate gauge when starting to measure. Keep wheel wells,spats, and frames clear of dried mud. If you have a tri gear drift will show as scrubbing to one half of the tyre or other..Double the life of your tyres by rotating them (thicker tread is more puncture resistant) either on same axle or opposite axels if tyre rotation arrows are uni-directional. Examine your tubes for sidewall chaffing while they are out. Kerbing any vehicles tyre can damage the structure of the tyre,tracking steering and suspension..be carefull changing from grass to hardstandings. Pick up and dispose of foreign objects around the hanger and pad. Practice your tyre checking on your car, pushbike,motorcycle..unusual wear patterns all try to tell you what is going on. To summerise PILECK Pressures Inspect Load Clean Enviroment Kerbs Regards Kevin --- On Sun, 20/9/09, Duncan & Ami McFadyean wrote: > From: Duncan & Ami McFadyean > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, 20 September, 2009, 8:12 PM > > > > > > > > << Are > the tri gears having this > problem?>> > Or the Taildraggers; the answer to which is no, except > early on when using > cheaper non-aviation inner tubes resulting in two > punctures, one during > landing. > These appeared to have resulted from internal > abrasion/stressing of the > inner tube (possibly some dirt in there), rather than from > a projectile. Therein > should lie a lesson. > > The proper inner tubes have lasted 350+ hours, > although don't hold air as > well as would be expected; may try some > 'Slime'-equivalent!. > > Duncan McF > > ----- Original Message > ----- > From: > Jim > Brown > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, > September 20, 2009 1:10 > PM > Subject: Re: > Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre > Failures > > > > > > > Paul > > I have been following this thread on > flats,and I have a few > points to make, that have worked for me. > > I have been flying my monowheel almost ten > years off paved > runway's...My kit included the old "tundra > tire" and instructions to use > low pressure,(I don't remember PSI, but the > sidewalls rubbed the Landing > gear frame.) The plane taxied like it was runing in > mud.. > > I changed that tire at about 20 hours to a 700 > X 6 and 6 plys and > used 30 PSI. The plane is much easier to taxi, take > off's are much > quicker, and in 800 hours I have replaced two tires > that were worn out. > No flats !!!! I can't say that the air pressure > is the problem, and also > I don't fly off grass, but I have not had the > problems that so many of > you are having. > > On another note having made the above change I > also changed the > outrigger lengths, as the new tire, with higher > pressure made the > original outriggers to short. Over the past ten > years I have extened the > outriggers in length, to now when the plane is > parked, both outriggers > touch the ground. For me ground handling is much > better, and in landing > with the longer outriggers the "rocking from > one outrigger to the other" > is now gone. > > Also another question ? Are the flats limited > to the Monowheels ??? > Areare the tri gears having this > problem? > > Jim Brown > XS Monowheel. > > --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Paul McAllister > > wrote: > > > From: > Paul McAllister > > Subject: Re: > Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures > To: > europa-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 12:32 > PM > > > --> Europa-List message > posted by: Paul > McAllister > > Hi, > > I > have this happen regularly. I now just > change them every 100 > hours > and I never travel without my jacking block and a spare > inner > tube. I > have tried inner tube talcum powder and different > pressures with out > much improvement. > > The failure mode seems > to be chafing on the side wall due to running > such low > pressure. > > Paul > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Raimo > Toivio > wrote: > > All > > > > I have lost without visible or > known reason two innner tyres in my > > Monowheel. > > > > > Loosing suddenly main gears air pressure is not > a funny game and did > not > >om/Navigator?Europa-List" > > target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigatosp; > > - > MATRONICS WEB FO/" ; > -Matt > Dralle, List > Admin========= > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:02 PM PST US From: William Harrison Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dynon remote compas and brake caliper Put mine in the space overhead, just in front of the rear door hinges. Calibrated up very nicely with a landing compass etc. Symmetry between the hinges seems to cancel out any error from the steel hinges/screws. Good calibration is really worth it IMHO for the prime reason of getting an accurate real time wind vector from the Dynon (who really flies by heading these days when you have the option of controlling track against desired course?) My headset causes a 1 degree error if I sway my head over to the right (either that or its the fillings in my teeth...) It was fairly simple to jig the mounting brackets to align with 'straight and level' reference lines. It required a slight 'power bulge' in the ceiling trim to align the remote compass with the horizontal in the pitch axis. I'm a fan of the Dynon kit. Has anyone got a view on the new product they introduced at oshkosh giving synthetic vision etc etc? Willie G-BZNY On 20 Sep 2009, at 08:16, Michel AUVRAY wrote: > > Hi all, > 1 I install the Dynon D10A and remote compas. > Where is the best position of the remote compas? > > 2 Does anyone know a brake caliper (cleveland or other) more > efficient than Europa caliper. > > Thank you > > > -- > > --|-- > --------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY > mau11@free.fr > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:05 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures Hi! Jim I have had the problem with failure of the nose wheel inner tubes at their seams. Especially before I researched slightly different size tubes. The originals were too large a diameter on the =93balloon=94 dimension and so always inflated with a crease in them. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: 20 September 2009 13:11 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures Paul I have been following this thread on flats, and I have a few points to make, that have worked for me. I have been flying my monowheel almost ten years off paved runway's...My kit included the old "tundra tire" and instructions to use low pressure,(I don't remember PSI, but the sidewalls rubbed the Landing gear frame.) The plane taxied like it was runing in mud.. I changed that tire at about 20 hours to a 700 X 6 and 6 plys and used 30 PSI. The plane is much easier to taxi, take off's are much quicker, and in 800 hours I have replaced two tires that were worn out. No flats !!!! I can't say that the air pressure is the problem, and also I don't fly off grass, but I have not had the problems that so many of you are having. On another note having made the above change I also changed the outrigger lengths, as the new tire, with higher pressure made the original outriggers to short. Over the past ten years I have extened the outriggers in length, to now when the plane is parked, both outriggers touch the ground. For me ground handling is much better, and in landing with the longer outriggers the "rocking from one outrigger to the other" is now gone. Also another question ? Are the flats limited to the Monowheels ??? Are are the tri gears having this problem? Jim Brown XS Monowheel. --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Paul McAllister wrote: From: Paul McAllister Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures > Hi, I have this happen regularly. I now just change them every 100 hours and I never travel without my jacking block and a spare inner tube. I have tried inner tube talcum powder and different pressures with out much improvement. The failure mode seems to be chafing on the side wall due to running such low pressure. Paul On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Raimo Toivio > wrote: > All > > I have lost without visible or known reason two innner tyres in my > Monowheel. > > Loosing suddenly main gear=B4s air pressure is not a funny game and did not >om/Navigator?Europa-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigatosp; - MATRONICS WEB FO/" ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin========= ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:28 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures Fred I think this is the 4th set of outriggers I have replaced over the years. Each set was made longer,about 1/2 inch each time. My monowheel is an XS model,and not the classic so there may be a difference in lengths of the outriggers as supplied by the factory??? In looking back when I was learning to land the monowheel, FOR ME I think the learning curve would have gone better had the outriggers been longer... Let me explain....During landings,after touchdown, the rocking from side to side of the wings with the short outriggers gave me the inpression that the plane was starting to turn to one side or the other, and I sometime corrected for a turn, when there was no turn. It took a while for my brain and my feet to come togather in my mind. Before I started flying the monowheel, I had acculuminated 1000 plus hours in a Pitts S-1-S which I owned. My perspective of what was going on outside the monowheel during the landing roll out, was affected by what I had seen in the Pitts. I'm not sure how a low time pilot might feel, or be aware of what is happing in the landing roll out of their monowheel. I don't know if anyone has posted their thoughts on this subject.....but please DO NOT change out the outriggers on your plane on basis of my experience. Please understand I am not suggesting that anyone run out and change outriggers for longer ones. Jim Brown. ---- Fred Klein wrote: > > > On Sep 20, 2009, at 5:10 AM, Jim Brown wrote: > > > Over the past ten years I have extened the outriggers in length, to > > now when the plane is parked, both outriggers touch the ground. For > > me ground handling is much better, and in landing with the longer > > outriggers the "rocking from one outrigger to the other" is now gone. > > Jim, > > Have you made the outriggers longer incrementally over the years or in > one fell swoop? > > Would you venture an opinion as to whether or not the shorter legs > were advantageous initially as you familiarized yourself w/ the mono? > > Sounds like you've had excellent results w/ the smaller tire at higher > pressure on the hardsurface runways you use...thanks for putting your > oar in to this discussion. > > Fred > A194 XS mono > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:10 PM PST US From: Gustavo Sessarego Subject: Europa-List: Europa performance HI THERE=2C I am buying a Europa XS Monowheel with Jabiru 3300 and airmaster constant s peed prop. anybody cold tell me the cuirse speed and fuel burn expected wit h this configuration. thanks in advance Gustavo > Date: Sun=2C 20 Sep 2009 19:44:13 -0400 > From: acrojim@cfl.rr.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures > > > Fred > > I think this is the 4th set of outriggers I have replaced over the years. Each set was made longer=2Cabout 1/2 inch each time. My monowheel is an XS model=2Cand not the classic so there may be a difference in lengths of the outriggers as supplied by the factory??? > > In looking back when I was learning to land the monowheel=2C FOR ME I thi nk the learning curve would have gone better had the outriggers been longer ... Let me explain....During landings=2Cafter touchdown=2C the rocking from side to side of the wings with the short outriggers gave me the inpression that the plane was starting to turn to one side or the other=2C and I some time corrected for a turn=2C when there was no turn. It took a while for m y brain and my feet to come togather in my mind. Before I started flying th e monowheel=2C I had acculuminated 1000 plus hours in a Pitts S-1-S which I owned. My perspective of what was going on outside the monowheel during th e landing roll out=2C was affected by what I had seen in the Pitts. > > I'm not sure how a low time pilot might feel=2C or be aware of what is ha pping in the landing roll out of their monowheel. > I don't know if anyone has posted their thoughts on this subject.....but please DO NOT change out the outriggers on your plane on basis of my experi ence. > > Please understand I am not suggesting that anyone run out and change outr iggers for longer ones. > > Jim Brown. > > > ---- Fred Klein wrote: > > > > > > On Sep 20=2C 2009=2C at 5:10 AM=2C Jim Brown wrote: > > > > > Over the past ten years I have extened the outriggers in length=2C to > > > now when the plane is parked=2C both outriggers touch the ground. For > > > me ground handling is much better=2C and in landing with the longer > > > outriggers the "rocking from one outrigger to the other" is now gone. > > > > Jim=2C > > > > Have you made the outriggers longer incrementally over the years or in > > one fell swoop? > > > > Would you venture an opinion as to whether or not the shorter legs > > were advantageous initially as you familiarized yourself w/ the mono? > > > > Sounds like you've had excellent results w/ the smaller tire at higher > > pressure on the hardsurface runways you use...thanks for putting your > > oar in to this discussion. > > > > Fred > > A194 XS mono > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Recib=ED alertas de tr=E1nsito en tu celu y lleg=E1 antes a tu destino. MSN Mapas te ayuda http://www.msnmapas.com/sms-mms-transito.html ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:08 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger lengths Jim, I read you loud and clear...thanks for your insights. With your Pitts experience, your brain and toes must be dialed in. Reflecting on your initial post, I was wondering about whether the stock-length outriggers were sized to help one stay ahead of the airplane by giving a visual cue prior to an incipient runway excursion...and perhaps...the longer outriggers might not. For the novice mono-driver, that visual cue early on might be helpful, but I get your point about the wobble being misleading (at least some of the time). In my mind, I like the notion of stability on rollout afforded by the longer outriggers...but that's no substitute for direct experience. I have +600 hrs in taildraggers, but the're all in my Stinson 108 and J-3s...pretty benign birds. Fred On Sep 20, 2009, at 4:44 PM, wrote: > > Fred > > I think this is the 4th set of outriggers I have replaced over the > years. Each set was made longer,about 1/2 inch each time. My > monowheel is an XS model,and not the classic so there may be a > difference in lengths of the outriggers as supplied by the factory??? > > In looking back when I was learning to land the monowheel, FOR ME I > think the learning curve would have gone better had the outriggers > been longer... Let me explain....During landings,after touchdown, > the rocking from side to side of the wings with the short outriggers > gave me the inpression that the plane was starting to turn to one > side or the other, and I sometime corrected for a turn, when there > was no turn. It took a while for my brain and my feet to come > togather in my mind. Before I started flying the monowheel, I had > acculuminated 1000 plus hours in a Pitts S-1-S which I owned. My > perspective of what was going on outside the monowheel during the > landing roll out, was affected by what I had seen in the Pitts. > > I'm not sure how a low time pilot might feel, or be aware of what is > happing in the landing roll out of their monowheel. > I don't know if anyone has posted their thoughts on this > subject.....but please DO NOT change out the outriggers on your > plane on basis of my experience. > > Please understand I am not suggesting that anyone run out and change > outriggers for longer ones. > > Jim Brown. > > > ---- Fred Klein wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sep 20, 2009, at 5:10 AM, Jim Brown wrote: >> >>> Over the past ten years I have extened the outriggers in length, to >>> now when the plane is parked, both outriggers touch the ground. For >>> me ground handling is much better, and in landing with the longer >>> outriggers the "rocking from one outrigger to the other" is now >>> gone. >> >> Jim, >> >> Have you made the outriggers longer incrementally over the years or >> in >> one fell swoop? >> >> Would you venture an opinion as to whether or not the shorter legs >> were advantageous initially as you familiarized yourself w/ the mono? >> >> Sounds like you've had excellent results w/ the smaller tire at >> higher >> pressure on the hardsurface runways you use...thanks for putting your >> oar in to this discussion. >> >> Fred >> A194 XS mono >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa performance From: Tom Friedland <96victor@gmail.com> Hi Gustavo Jim Brown's advice is probably good. My europa's wheel is considerably larger and therefore the outriggers probably should be lengthened so they contact the ground when is sits unoccupied. The nylon leg material can be ordered here if it is not available in Argentina. If you wish, I can order the material for you and include it with the aircraft. Tom On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Gustavo Sessarego wr ote: > HI THERE, > > I am buying a Europa XS Monowheel with Jabiru 3300 and airmaster constant > speed prop. anybody cold tell me the cuirse speed and fuel burn expected > with this configuration. > > thanks in advance > Gustavo > > > Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:44:13 -0400 > > From: acrojim@cfl.rr.com > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures > > > > > > Fred > > > > I think this is the 4th set of outriggers I have replaced over the year s. > Each set was made longer,about 1/2 inch each time. My monowheel is an XS > model,and not the classic so there may be a difference in lengths of the > outriggers as supplied by the factory??? > > > > In looking back when I was learning to land the monowheel, FOR ME I thi nk > the learning curve would have gone better had the outriggers been longer. .. > Let me explain....During landings,after touchdown, the rocking from side to > side of the wings with the short outriggers gave me the inpression that t he > plane was starting to turn to one side or the other, and I sometime > corrected for a turn, when there was no turn. It took a while for my brai n > and my feet to come togather in my mind. Before I started flying the > monowheel, I had acculuminated 1000 plus hours in a Pitts S-1-S which I > owned. My perspective of what was going on outside the monowheel during t he > landing roll out, was affected by what I had seen in the Pitts. > > > > I'm not sure how a low time pilot might feel, or be aware of what is > happing in the landing roll out of their monowheel. > > I don't know if anyone has posted their thoughts on this subject.....bu t > please DO NOT change out the outriggers on your plane on basis of my > experience. > > > > Please understand I am not suggesting that anyone run out and change > outriggers for longer ones. > > > > Jim Brown. > > > > > > ---- Fred Klein wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 20, 2009, at 5:10 AM, Jim Brown wrote: > > > > > > > Over the past ten years I have extened the outriggers in length, to > > > > now when the plane is parked, both outriggers touch the ground. For > > > > me ground handling is much better, and in landing with the longer > > > > outriggers the "rocking from one outrigger to the other" is now gon e. > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > Have you made the outriggers longer incrementally over the years or i n > > > one fell swoop? > > > > > > Would you venture an opinion as to whether or not the shorter legs > > > were advantageous initially as you familiarized yourself w/ the mono? > > > > > > Sounds like you've had excellent results w/ the smaller tire at highe r > > > pressure on the hardsurface runways you use...thanks for putting your > > > oar in to this discussion. > > > > > > Fred > > > A194 XS mono > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >===================== > >==================== > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Con tu cuenta de Hotmail, ten=E9s 25 GB gratis para fotos y archivos. =A1 Disfrut=E1 > de Windows Live! > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:47 PM PST US From: Gustavo Sessarego Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa performance Thanks Tom=2C good idea....!! if you can order there I will apreciate it=2C since here in Argentina is difficult to get those things... GUS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa performance From: 96victor@gmail.com Hi Gustavo Jim Brown's advice is probably good. My europa's wheel is considerably lar ger and therefore the outriggers probably should be lengthened so they cont act the ground when is sits unoccupied. The nylon leg material can be ordered here if it is not available in Argent ina. If you wish=2C I can order the material for you and include it with t he aircraft. Tom On Sun=2C Sep 20=2C 2009 at 4:54 PM=2C Gustavo Sessarego wrote: HI THERE=2C I am buying a Europa XS Monowheel with Jabiru 3300 and airmaster constant s peed prop. anybody cold tell me the cuirse speed and fuel burn expected wit h this configuration. thanks in advance Gustavo > Date: Sun=2C 20 Sep 2009 19:44:13 -0400 > From: acrojim@cfl.rr.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures > > > Fred > > I think this is the 4th set of outriggers I have replaced over the years. Each set was made longer=2Cabout 1/2 inch each time. My monowheel is an XS model=2Cand not the classic so there may be a difference in lengths of the outriggers as supplied by the factory??? > > In looking back when I was learning to land the monowheel=2C FOR ME I thi nk the learning curve would have gone better had the outriggers been longer ... Let me explain....During landings=2Cafter touchdown=2C the rocking from side to side of the wings with the short outriggers gave me the inpression that the plane was starting to turn to one side or the other=2C and I some time corrected for a turn=2C when there was no turn. It took a while for m y brain and my feet to come togather in my mind. Before I started flying th e monowheel=2C I had acculuminated 1000 plus hours in a Pitts S-1-S which I owned. My perspective of what was going on outside the monowheel during th e landing roll out=2C was affected by what I had seen in the Pitts. > > I'm not sure how a low time pilot might feel=2C or be aware of what is ha pping in the landing roll out of their monowheel. > I don't know if anyone has posted their thoughts on this subject.....but please DO NOT change out the outriggers on your plane on basis of my experi ence. > > Please understand I am not suggesting that anyone run out and change outr iggers for longer ones. > > Jim Brown. > > > ---- Fred Klein wrote: > > > > > > On Sep 20=2C 2009=2C at 5:10 AM=2C Jim Brown wrote: > > > > > Over the past ten years I have extened the outriggers in length=2C to > > > now when the plane is parked=2C both outriggers touch the ground. For > > > me ground handling is much better=2C and in landing with the longer > > > outriggers the "rocking from one outrigger to the other" is now gone. > > > > Jim=2C > > > > Have you made the outriggers longer incrementally over the years or in > > one fell swoop? > > > > Would you venture an opinion as to whether or not the shorter legs > > were advantageous initially as you familiarized yourself w/ the mono? > > > > Sounds like you've had excellent results w/ the smaller tire at higher > > pressure on the hardsurface runways you use...thanks for putting your > > oar in to this discussion. > > > > Fred > > A194 XS mono > > > > > > > > > > >===================== >==================== > > > Con tu cuenta de Hotmail=2C ten=E9s 25 GB gratis para fotos y archivos. =A1 Disfrut=E1 de Windows Live! arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ =A1Viene la primavera: que no te encuentre sin compa=F1=EDa! Prob=E1 con MS N Amor y Amistad http://match.ar.msn.com/channel/index.aspx?trackingid=1056241 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:31 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Inner Tyre Failures Interesting to note: Tire pressure is the key. The lower the pressure the more wear on the side wall. I see the older mono's with cracks in the sidewalls running 12-14 lbs of pressure on the 7 inch tire so as to control the bounce (theoretically). The normal pressure by the book for the 8 inch tire is 18 lbs. But none is stated for the 7 inch tire in the operations manual... Typically the tire should be inflated to about 30 lbs according to Air Trac. The original outrigger length was set for the Classic tail wheel located at the rear bulkhead. The tail wheel was lower and the outriggers were shorter. With the tail wheel stinger, the outriggers were too short and were eventually lengthened. The new tail wheel conversion mod for the old Classic tail wheel to stinger increases the outrigger length by about an inch and a half. After talking years ago with Jim Brown and Andy Draper, I helped Joe Like set up his aircraft with the longer leg lengths. Joe was a low time pilot with a little Aeronca Champ time. By adjusting his outrigger leg lengths to just rest on the ground when the plane was only loaded with fuel, helped him with the horrible leans that can throw off the novices attempt at directional control. Joe has the 7 inch main tire as most of you all. Joe now has 150 plus hours without incident operating off of concrete. So Jim has sage advice. Each plane requires a slightly different outrigger measurement, but it appears worth the effort to make the outriggers so they just touch the ground so as to help overall control. Just my thoughts. I only have a few landings in the mono, and the weather was calm. No ill affects with this setup. I also never allowed a deviation more than a inch or two on takeoff or landing. Let's just say I had happy feet and a tight set of muscles. Bud Yerly Tri-gear, 914 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.