---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/11/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:22 AM - Re: XS Monowheel Owners Manual/Weight and Balance (Neil France) 2. 03:12 AM - Re: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) (Robert C Harrison) 3. 04:43 AM - Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) (Remi Guerner) 4. 06:23 AM - Re: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) (Robert C Harrison) 5. 07:53 AM - Re: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) (rparigoris) 6. 08:56 AM - Re: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) (Robert C Harrison) 7. 10:13 AM - EF 62 (David Corbett) 8. 10:41 AM - Re: EF 62 (Robert Borger) 9. 11:26 AM - Re: EF 62 (Tim Ward) 10. 12:08 PM - Resin Pump (Peter Field) 11. 12:10 PM - Re: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) (Rob Housman) 12. 09:38 PM - Mod 73 Problem (DuaneFamly@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:30 AM PST US From: "Neil France" Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Monowheel Owners Manual/Weight and Balance http://www.europa-aircraft.co.uk/upload/xs_mw_owners_manual.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: Troy Maynor To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 11:26 PM Subject: Europa-List: XS Monowheel Owners Manual/Weight and Balance Hey All, I can't seem to locate an owners manual for the XS monowheel on the Europa Club or Factory Site. I have a classic monowheel, but with the extended baggage bay and the tailwheel move/mod. I am seeking this for the weight and balance pages in section 6. Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks to all. Troy Maynor -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/09/09 18:43:00 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:37 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) Thanks Paul. Yes I'd "sussed" that one and it is probably the way I'll go! Regards and thanks Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister Sent: 11 October 2009 03:11 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) Hi Bob, How much damage is there ? If its small then a spot of redux might fix the offending spot. Just a thought, Paul ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:19 AM PST US From: "Remi Guerner" Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) Bob, In my opinion having two filters in serie is unnecessary and may even be dangerous: If the mesh size of the pump filter is equal or bigger than the one of your main filter or gascolator located upstream, then it is useless, unless some bad stuff is introduced in the hose in between during installation or maintenance. If the mesh size of the pump filter is smaller than the one of your main filter or gascolator, then it can become clogged by particles not blocked by the main filter. This can happen very quickly as the filtering area of the Pierburg pump filter is very small. Moreover, there is no way to visually check that pump filter, other than disconnecting the hose and removing the filter element with the risk of damaging it as you did. My advice is to get rid of the pump filters and take all precautions during fuel system installation and maintenance so that no pollution is introduced downstream of the main filters or gascolators. Additionnally here is some information I found on mesh sizes: Andair gascolator GAS 375: 70 micrometers (source: Andair catalog) Pierburg electrical fuel pump: no indication on mesh size of the included filter; however they recommand the use of a 60 micrometer mesh filter upstream the pump. (source: Pierburg fuel pumps mounting instructions) Europa supplied in line filters: anybody knows? Regards Remi Guerner <<<<>>>>> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:45 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) Hi! Remi You don't say which "Bob" you are addressing ..however if it is me ..I have two mini gascolators one on each tank connector both prior to the fuel switch. They are not in series as such but independently filter the main and reserve supply lines. I have not been able to establish how the crud was introduced after the gascolators to get as far as the pump filters ..yet! but without the pump filters it would now be in the carbs! And "God forbid"! that should happen. I always use a gauze filter in the tank main filler, nothing ever shows. I am considering getting a "Mr Funnel" but that wouldn't exclude crud which has somehow entered the pump filters after the fuel passed the two gascolators. IMHO it can only have been inside pipes fitted during rework after the Jabiru was changed for a 914 Rotax. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner Sent: 11 October 2009 12:38 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) Bob, In my opinion having two filters in serie is unnecessary and may even be dangerous: If the mesh size of the pump filter is equal or bigger than the one of your main filter or gascolator located upstream, then it is useless, unless some bad stuff is introduced in the hose in between during installation or maintenance. If the mesh size of the pump filter is smaller than the one of your main filter or gascolator, then it can become clogged by particles not blocked by the main filter. This can happen very quickly as the filtering area of the Pierburg pump filter is very small. Moreover, there is no way to visually check that pump filter, other than disconnecting the hose and removing the filter element with the risk of damaging it as you did. My advice is to get rid of the pump filters and take all precautions during fuel system installation and maintenance so that no pollution is introduced downstream of the main filters or gascolators. Additionnally here is some information I found on mesh sizes: Andair gascolator GAS 375: 70 micrometers (source: Andair catalog) Pierburg electrical fuel pump: no indication on mesh size of the included filter; however they recommand the use of a 60 micrometer mesh filter upstream the pump. (source: Pierburg fuel pumps mounting instructions) Europa supplied in line filters: anybody knows? Regards Remi Guerner <<<<>>>>> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) From: "rparigoris" Hi Bob H. "I have not been able to establish how the crud was introduced after the gascolators to get as far as the pump filters .yet!" Curious, what clued you into finding out your sock filter/s were clogged? If engine stumbled or quit, did turning on second pump get you on ground with motor running normal? Is your fuel system parallel fuel pumps or series with bypass? If you have differential gauge, what did it tell you during episode? Thx. Ron Parigoris Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:22 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) Hi! Ron Engine quit over the Pennine Mountains, 3hours after 2 x 200 mile sea crossings ! (and I would have preferred the sea !) The engine started immediately on switching to reserve, but on strip down there was more crud in the reserve pump than the main pump ! But with the reserve tank getting all initial fillings that doesn't surprise me, the main should always be less susceptible to having any contamination. (Still doesn't explain how the gascolators didn't stop it) The pumps are arranged as per the Europa fuel circuit plan to work on a parallel basis with the one way valves likewise arranged. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge. Reserve got me to a suitable airfield except Leeds Bradford International offered me a runway (20 miles). Dropped both gascolator bowls off ...nothing found. Flew home airfield to airfield and on initial check, before any disturbances, both pumps and return were running at 150 litres per hour. I'm hoping it is not a repeat of my tank finger filter experience of 5 years ago where a ball of fibre dangled in front of the badly drilled intersection of the original tank connectors eventually plugging it (wash basin type effect) I now have the Singleton connectors and improved finger filters installed. Problem is you can not reverse flow the finger filters to clean them of this type of contamination.(just shouldn't be there in the first place!) Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigoris Sent: 11 October 2009 16:00 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) Hi Bob H. "I have not been able to establish how the crud was introduced after the gascolators to get as far as the pump filters ..yet!" Curious, what clued you into finding out your sock filter/s were clogged? If engine stumbled or quit, did turning on second pump get you on ground with motor running normal? Is your fuel system parallel fuel pumps or series with bypass? If you have differential gauge, what did it tell you during episode? Thx. Ron Parigoris Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:15 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: EF 62 From: "David Corbett" For Europa Club members - the next edition, EF 62, was posted on 5 & 6 October - but because of intermittent postal strikes in UK, some of you (that means me amongst others!) may have to await the postmens' convenience. I hope this is not a duplicate message... David - for the committee ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:59 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: EF 62 David, Received my copy yesterday here in Texas. Good issue, as always. Bob Borger Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2009, at 12:11, David Corbett wrote: > For Europa Club members =93 the next edition, EF 62, was posted on 5 & > 6 October =93 but because of intermittent postal strikes in UK, some > of you (that means me amongst others!) may have to await the postmen > s=99 convenience. I hope this is not a duplicate message > > > David =93 for the committee > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:08 AM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EF 62 David, Received my copy 4 days ago here in New Zealand!! We are closer then you think. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street' Fendalton, Christchurch. NEW ZEALAND Ph. 64 3 3515166 Mob 021 0640221 Email ward.t@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: David Corbett To: Europa Forum Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 6:11 AM Subject: Europa-List: EF 62 For Europa Club members - the next edition, EF 62, was posted on 5 & 6 October - but because of intermittent postal strikes in UK, some of you (that means me amongst others!) may have to await the postmens' convenience. I hope this is not a duplicate message. David - for the committee ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:38 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Resin Pump From: "Peter Field" Just to let you all know I have just put a resin pump up for sale on Ebay. Item reference is 170393402320. This is a really useful tool if you are just embarking upon your build. Saves all that weighing!! Peter Field G-CHOX ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:00 PM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) Good catch. Your point is well taken. Now I have to figure out which of the numerous Europa and Rotax fuel systems designs my scheme was based on, or which one I may have mis-interpreted. ...and I missed the point that you mounted the filters outside of the cabin thus negating the need for easy spill proof removal. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigoris Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Pumps Rotax 914 System.(Pierburg ) Hi Rob "Ron, I very much like your implementation but I would add one improvement, that being quick disconnect fittings to permit removal of whatever filters are used without flooding the cabin with fuel when the filters need to be removed for cleaning or replacement." I have two Andair 375 gasculators sealed in a box with access from outside the aeroplane (not under the wing either). Easy access, just unscrew bowl after you drain from quick drain and spin off filter/s. see: http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album231&op=modload&na me=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php I looked at your two series fuel filters drawing. Are you planning on having two sets (of two parallel filters each)? If not and you only plan on 1 pair of parallel filters, once they clog, turning on pump #2 in either a series with bypass, or parallel fuel system will not be of much use. Ron Parigoris Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:14 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Mod 73 Problem Good day to All, Well, I finally got around to doing Mod 73 on a yet-to-fly XS kit and the first tailplane went well but after pulling off the second I found that the TP6 sleeve has, somehow, rotated and now shows shiny metal in the hole of the fiberglass layup previously done for the top PIP pin insertion hole. My guess is a rotation of about 20 degrees. Am I now going to have to tear into both top and bottom access hole in order to rebond this sleeve to the outboard rib? Anyone else have this problem? I thought that I had used a sufficient amount of grease on the torque tube but still had a little problem removing the second tailplane. Thanks in advance. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300A Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.