---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/01/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:16 AM - PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! (Matt Dralle) 1. 01:45 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (Frans Veldman) 2. 01:51 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 3. 02:40 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (Kingsley Hurst) 4. 04:32 AM - Re: any erstwhile fighter jocks out there? (Tim Houlihan) 5. 05:06 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (Frans Veldman) 6. 05:18 AM - To Big for our britches ( EuropaOwners ) (SteveD) 7. 06:45 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (Steve Hagar) 8. 06:55 AM - Regions (Fergus Kyle) 9. 09:17 AM - AW: OT RA 3 customers (Alfred - Aviatik) 10. 09:44 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (JEFF ROBERTS) 11. 09:44 AM - fighter jocks (Fred Klein) 12. 10:16 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (Robert C Harrison) 13. 10:16 AM - Re: Regions (Robert C Harrison) 14. 10:49 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (Frans Veldman) 15. 10:49 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (Frans Veldman) 16. 12:42 PM - Re: Rudder Lock (Robert C Harrison) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:34 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki ( http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution counts! Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/). These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:42 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock Troy Maynor wrote: > Hi All, I desire to build a control lock for the rudder. Searching > the archive I found the good idea of the pvc pipe assembly that goes > onto the pedals and back to the stick or seat edge maybe, however I > am looking at trailering my Europa a lot, at first anyway. It would > seem this design would allow wind to whip the linkages and cables too > much. You are right indeed. I have some experience with (backwards) trailering the Europa and forces when a truck passes from the opposite direction are enormous. When I was trailering the Europa to the upholstery companty I had a temporary lock that came off at the moment that a truck passed and the rudder whacked back so I could feel it in the car. Damage: the rudder tried to pivot over the rudder stop tab, and this induces a tearing force on the hinge. I could see that the hinge area of the rudder was stressed, small vertical cracks and a whitish appearance. I later reinforced this with a couple of UNI layers perpendicular on the cracks. This incident happened by the way with a speed of 80 Km (about 50 mph). I guess this is a speed very easily achieved by a tail slide, so this incident is for me proof that a Europa will not be able to handle even a small tail slide. Anyway, my solution was to make a device just like shown by Ron Parigoris in another post, except that mine is in a V-shape, and the open end of the V is connected via a bolt that goes through the trim slot. It is therefore quite low on the rudder, where I think most of the forces and potential for damage is. And it doesn't try to twist the whole rudder and fin assembly together. The legs of the V extent all the way over the tailplane "stubs", so they have quite some leverage and the forces spread over a large area that is already reinforced for the tailplane. The legs are made of metal tubing, with insulation around it. The design works: the painter who did my airplane is 200 Km away from here, had to get there when the wind was about 40 knots. On the way back there was not much wind. But the airplane survived both travels without any problems. If my description is not clear, I will make pictures. Frans ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Troy "I desire to build a control lock for the rudder. Pictures would speak volumes." I can do one pic: http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album223&id=Ruderr_2&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php Only had it in front of hangar though getting blasted backwardsfrom a 250hp Comanche, not backwards screaming down highway. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:42 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock > I desire to build a control lock for the rudder Troy, Since the aircraft will be travelling backwards, if I were you, I would build a device on the trailer itself that restrains rudder movement. That way, you will not be relying on another part of the aircraft to take the strain. Ideally, I think I would also build an enclosure for the rudder and at least part of the tailplane to enter to protect it from winds while travelling. Just my 2c worth. Kingsley in Oz ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:49 AM PST US From: Tim Houlihan Subject: Re: Europa-List: any erstwhile fighter jocks out there? Thanks for the tease ! ! This video is not available outside the US probably a pity but I can't comment! Tim Fred Klein wrote: > > This video of the international Red Flag training exercise will give > you a taste... > > http://www.slashcontrol.com/free-movies/fighter-pilot-operation-red-flag/3157263183 > > > (48 min. long)...enjoy... > > Fred > > do not archive > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:08 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock Kingsley Hurst wrote: > Since the aircraft will be travelling backwards, if I were you, I > would build a device on the trailer itself that restrains rudder > movement. I would caution *against* that! The airplane will move a lot during travel, it sits on its own suspension and rubber tires which allow quite some twisting and sideways movement, and the tail of the airplane consequently moves as well. If you restrict the movement at that point, you will use the tail as a lever to restrict movement of the airplane, not good in my opinion, as it is not designed to take such loads. One option would be to restrict the airplane on multiple places (I tried that), but then I discovered that the trailer, being of metal, will bend and twist by itself. If you secure the airplane like that, you will use the airplane to make the trailer more rigid, not a good idea either. Apart from the problem that there are very few places on the airplane suitable for securing the airplane like that anyway. My solution to these problems: I put a winch on the trailer with a nylon band, and use that to tow the airplane onto the trailer. I leave it connected during the travel. At the same tail position, I connect two straps to it, connected via two metal springs to the trailer. This will form a triangle, restricting movement of the tail in all directions, but due to the springs trailer movements won't jerk on the airplane. The trailer is thus allowed to move a little bit under the airplane. A second benefit of this is that the airplane can use its own tires and springs to deal with bumps in the road, in addition to the suspension of the trailer. This will be better for your gyro's, if you have them. Frans ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:14 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: To Big for our britches ( EuropaOwners ) From: "SteveD" Hello, Europa Community. We seem to have hit the wall with the builders logs and photo galleries. The gallery software has to be upgraded to Version 2. I've been spending several hours a week clearing up errors generated by Version 1, and Jos's servers have been taking a beating. So the change has been forced upon us. I'll try to make the move as painless as possible. We will have two galleries for a while, as I move files from one to the other I'll have to delete the old albums. The site is just to large to keep both running in parallel. Thanks for your patience, Steved EuropaOwners Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:19 AM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock See attached photos PVC. some all thread, rubber tubing, and a bolt. Tested out, effective, no hassles Steve Hagar Mesa AZ A143 > [Original Message] > From: Frans Veldman > To: > Date: 11/1/2009 6:08:05 AM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock > > > Kingsley Hurst wrote: > > > Since the aircraft will be travelling backwards, if I were you, I > > would build a device on the trailer itself that restrains rudder > > movement. > > I would caution *against* that! > The airplane will move a lot during travel, it sits on its own > suspension and rubber tires which allow quite some twisting and sideways > movement, and the tail of the airplane consequently moves as well. If > you restrict the movement at that point, you will use the tail as a > lever to restrict movement of the airplane, not good in my opinion, as > it is not designed to take such loads. > One option would be to restrict the airplane on multiple places (I tried > that), but then I discovered that the trailer, being of metal, will bend > and twist by itself. If you secure the airplane like that, you will use > the airplane to make the trailer more rigid, not a good idea either. > Apart from the problem that there are very few places on the airplane > suitable for securing the airplane like that anyway. > > My solution to these problems: I put a winch on the trailer with a nylon > band, and use that to tow the airplane onto the trailer. I leave it > connected during the travel. At the same tail position, I connect two > straps to it, connected via two metal springs to the trailer. This will > form a triangle, restricting movement of the tail in all directions, but > due to the springs trailer movements won't jerk on the airplane. The > trailer is thus allowed to move a little bit under the airplane. A > second benefit of this is that the airplane can use its own tires and > springs to deal with bumps in the road, in addition to the suspension of > the trailer. This will be better for your gyro's, if you have them. > > Frans > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:25 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Regions Fred, I guess you should know that the majority of Fighter jocks out there are denied the thrills of the video as it's for United States of America only. Apparently the term "region" is a new definition of 'country'. Cheers, Ferg Is this a product of that famed woman running "Homeland Security"? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:57 AM PST US From: "Alfred - Aviatik" Subject: AW: Europa-List: OT RA 3 customers Elbie In case you haven't my current e-mail or postal adress - here they are. Regards, Alfred ------------------------------------------------ Alfred Buess, Europa XS HB-YKI CH-3700 Spiez, Switzerland Email ykibuess@bluewin.ch _____ Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von EMAproducts@aol.com Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. Dezember 2006 20:19 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Europa-List: OT RA 3 customers 12/2006 Gentlemen, Currently I have less than 30% of our customers current e-mail addresses. I am attempting to update our mailing lists to see if they have any questions re their RiteAngle IIIb Angle of Attack systems. Occasionally I get a call from someone who purchased a system several years ago and still do not have system installed or set-up due to various reasons. Should you have any questions, comments, photos of system installed in your plane, endorsements or whatever re: the RiteAngle IIIb system please send it to this address riteangle3@aol.com Thankfully, since the IIIb system has gone into production, we have had no changes in the electronics, however we now have a professional written setup manual. Sincerely Elbie EM Aviation, LLC Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:05 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock Frans, I did something like Steve did. I will eventually refine it to ride lower but I don't tow mine. The foam sleeves protect the paint. Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Frans Veldman >> To: >> Date: 11/1/2009 6:08:05 AM >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock >> > >> >> Kingsley Hurst wrote: >> >>> Since the aircraft will be travelling backwards, if I were you, I >>> would build a device on the trailer itself that restrains rudder >>> movement. >> >> I would caution *against* that! >> The airplane will move a lot during travel, it sits on its own >> suspension and rubber tires which allow quite some twisting and >> sideways >> movement, and the tail of the airplane consequently moves as well. If >> you restrict the movement at that point, you will use the tail as a >> lever to restrict movement of the airplane, not good in my opinion, as >> it is not designed to take such loads. >> One option would be to restrict the airplane on multiple places (I >> tried >> that), but then I discovered that the trailer, being of metal, will >> bend >> and twist by itself. If you secure the airplane like that, you will >> use >> the airplane to make the trailer more rigid, not a good idea either. >> Apart from the problem that there are very few places on the airplane >> suitable for securing the airplane like that anyway. >> >> My solution to these problems: I put a winch on the trailer with a >> nylon >> band, and use that to tow the airplane onto the trailer. I leave it >> connected during the travel. At the same tail position, I connect two >> straps to it, connected via two metal springs to the trailer. This >> will >> form a triangle, restricting movement of the tail in all directions, >> but >> due to the springs trailer movements won't jerk on the airplane. The >> trailer is thus allowed to move a little bit under the airplane. A >> second benefit of this is that the airplane can use its own tires and >> springs to deal with bumps in the road, in addition to the suspension >> of >> the trailer. This will be better for your gyro's, if you have them. >> >> Frans >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:06 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Europa-List: fighter jocks Tim...my apologies for some of my country's notions of propriety...Fred do not archive Begin forwarded message: > From: Fred Klein > Date: November 1, 2009 8:42:07 AM PST > To: "Fergus Kyle" > Subject: Re: fighter jocks > > Ferg...I am SO sorry the vid's restricted to US...had no idea. > > I'm most surprised to hear this because the training exercise > involved squadrons of Canadian F-18s, German Tornados, Italian > F-16s, and UK Harriers. > > What was really dazzling to me was how it depicted the AWACS > function during battle, the graphic displays on the screens in the > back of the big bird, the information flow, contributions to > situational awareness, etc. > > You would have appreciated it I'm sure. > > The takeaway for me was, "Freddy...fa geddabouditt...no way you have > the right stuff" > > (...shattered dreams!...) > > Fred > > On Nov 1, 2009, at 6:51 AM, Fergus Kyle wrote: > >> Fred, >> I guess you should know that the majority of Fighter jocks out there >> are denied the thrills of the video as it's for United States of >> America >> only. Apparently the term "region" is a new definition of 'country'. >> Cheers, Ferg >> Is this a product of that famed woman running "Homeland Security"? >> > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:57 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rudder Lock Hi! I must just comment.....you can't beat a covered trailer with the trike wheels winched against fixed chocks and a central ramp for the nose wheel with screw bottle jacks holding the spring originally intended for the tail wheel of the Mono held down into the central channel spine of the trailer ...it isn't going anywhere, and all parts of the aircraft are supported where intended. (Works for Mono as well) When parked on an airfield I use two lengths of water pipe insulation material made into a loop with cable ties round each end to envelope the rudder and fin. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman Sent: 01 November 2009 13:03 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock Kingsley Hurst wrote: > Since the aircraft will be travelling backwards, if I were you, I > would build a device on the trailer itself that restrains rudder > movement. I would caution *against* that! The airplane will move a lot during travel, it sits on its own suspension and rubber tires which allow quite some twisting and sideways movement, and the tail of the airplane consequently moves as well. If you restrict the movement at that point, you will use the tail as a lever to restrict movement of the airplane, not good in my opinion, as it is not designed to take such loads. One option would be to restrict the airplane on multiple places (I tried that), but then I discovered that the trailer, being of metal, will bend and twist by itself. If you secure the airplane like that, you will use the airplane to make the trailer more rigid, not a good idea either. Apart from the problem that there are very few places on the airplane suitable for securing the airplane like that anyway. My solution to these problems: I put a winch on the trailer with a nylon band, and use that to tow the airplane onto the trailer. I leave it connected during the travel. At the same tail position, I connect two straps to it, connected via two metal springs to the trailer. This will form a triangle, restricting movement of the tail in all directions, but due to the springs trailer movements won't jerk on the airplane. The trailer is thus allowed to move a little bit under the airplane. A second benefit of this is that the airplane can use its own tires and springs to deal with bumps in the road, in addition to the suspension of the trailer. This will be better for your gyro's, if you have them. Frans ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:58 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Regions Don't know Fred/Ferg for a proper take on Regions get over to Europe that's what we all are ..England no longer exists on their maps even! Beaucratic bastards. You ain't seen nothing yet until you get into the so called New World Order! Bob H _____________________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle Sent: 01 November 2009 14:52 Subject: Europa-List: Regions Fred, I guess you should know that the majority of Fighter jocks out there are denied the thrills of the video as it's for United States of America only. Apparently the term "region" is a new definition of 'country'. Cheers, Ferg Is this a product of that famed woman running "Homeland Security"? ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:10 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock Robert C Harrison wrote: > > Hi! > I must just comment.....you can't beat a covered trailer with the trike > wheels winched against fixed chocks and a central ramp for the nose wheel > with screw bottle jacks holding the spring originally intended for the tail > wheel of the Mono held down into the central channel spine of the trailer > ...it isn't going anywhere, and all parts of the aircraft are supported > where intended. (Works for Mono as well) Did you convert the Europa "factory" trailer for that, or is it a completely new creation? If it is a Europa trailer "mod", I'm very interested in the details. Although weight limitations for unregistered trailers will probably prevent me from making a covered trailer... :-( You wouldn't believe it, but here in the Netherlands it is much easier to register your aircraft than to register a trailer. Frans ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:28 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > Frans, > I did something like Steve did. I will eventually refine it to ride > lower but I don't tow mine. The foam sleeves protect the paint. Nice to see that everyone comes up with an almost similar solution. Mine is not much different, except that it rides lower, and because the fin ends there, I have to insert a bolt through the trim slot to keep both halves of the lock connected. If I did not intent to trailer my Europa, I would probably have made something that can be just hang over the rudder and fin, like most others do. Frans ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:06 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rudder Lock Hi! Frans It was a completely independent steel creation and certainly weighs in XS of any UK regulations but it is a special purpose trailor so circumvents some of the pit falls. In actual fact it wasn't so much designed as evolved, since to get the balance right for towing the twin axles were moved rearwards three times and the wheels and tyres were up graded each time. However I towed it to MT Propellers for harmonics tests in Bavaria behind my Volvo Estate saloon. It is fitted with two very large rear box doors which when closed sufficiently balances the drawbar so that with the front axle mounted on three inch ramps(with the aircraft inside) the draw bar can be lifted up by one hand to about 4 ft high for easier discharge of the 'plane. It is lined inside with spray on foam insulation which keeps it cool in high summer. The purpose being that it is a permanent safe hanger for parking on my drive. Regards Bob Harrison. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman Sent: 01 November 2009 18:38 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock Robert C Harrison wrote: > > Hi! > I must just comment.....you can't beat a covered trailer with the trike > wheels winched against fixed chocks and a central ramp for the nose wheel > with screw bottle jacks holding the spring originally intended for the tail > wheel of the Mono held down into the central channel spine of the trailer > ...it isn't going anywhere, and all parts of the aircraft are supported > where intended. (Works for Mono as well) Did you convert the Europa "factory" trailer for that, or is it a completely new creation? If it is a Europa trailer "mod", I'm very interested in the details. Although weight limitations for unregistered trailers will probably prevent me from making a covered trailer... :-( You wouldn't believe it, but here in the Netherlands it is much easier to register your aircraft than to register a trailer. 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