Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:49 AM - New Purchase G-BXGG (David Joyce)
2. 04:14 AM - does rotax need egt? (Remi Guerner)
3. 11:05 AM - Re: does rotax need egt? (Raimo Toivio)
4. 01:22 PM - Re: does rotax need egt? (Graham Singleton)
5. 01:27 PM - Re: New Purchase G-BXGG (zwakie)
6. 01:55 PM - Re: does rotax need egt? (Bud Yerly)
7. 02:30 PM - Kitplanes request to fly west coast Europa (Bud Yerly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | New Purchase G-BXGG |
Well it couldn't last forever (not owning a Europa), I have just purchased
G-BXGG from John Richardson, who I have to remark is a true Gentleman.
John and his wife Patricia have made the transition of ownership easy and
most pleasant, I wish them both well in thier new venture.
I am now looking forward to DOTHS, visits and the pleasure of flying a
Europa again.
Rgds to all
David J Joyce "the other one"
G-BXGG
note to the other/ other one I hope to see you soon on an away day.....;-)
Message 2
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| Subject: | does rotax need egt? |
Hi Rowland and all,
In my opinion, EGT indication on any Rotax engine is useless. EGT
indication is extremely sensitive to the position of the probe inside
the exhaust stack. This is one of the reasons why, on any piston engine,
the EGT indication in itself cannot be used to determine whether a
cylinder is running too lean or too rich. The highest EGT cylinder is
not necessarily the leanest. The only way to determine the mixture
condition is to pull the mixture control progressively and monitor the
EGT on all cylinders. The leanest cylinder is the one which will reach
peak EGT first. Of course you cannot do that on a Rotax as there is no
mixture control. The only thing EGT can do on a Rotax, in case of a big
engine problem, is to help diagnose which cylinder is the culprit.
Additional comments:
With the Europa XS cowling, the EGT probes on cylinders 1 and 2 are
cooled by direct ram air from the round intakes and this has proved to
affect their indication.
The Rotax Flydat has 4 EGT channels but shows EGT on two cylinders at a
time and switches automatically back and forth. That makes EGT very
uneasy to read. Any other engine monitor on the market is certainly
better.
My plane was fitted with a 914 with Flydat and 4 EGTs when I bought it.
When I replaced the engine with the 912S five years ago, I kept the
Flydat but did not install EGT probes and it works for me.
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
<<<<<< as there's no mixture control, EGT
indication does not add much to the CHT/coolant indication that comes
as standard. >>>>>>>>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: does rotax need egt? |
Remi,
just curious: why did you replace the engine (914T) and went to 912S ?
Raimo OH-XRT 152 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Remi Guerner
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:13 PM
Subject: Europa-List: does rotax need egt?
Hi Rowland and all,
In my opinion, EGT indication on any Rotax engine is useless. EGT
indication is extremely sensitive to the position of the probe inside
the exhaust stack. This is one of the reasons why, on any piston engine,
the EGT indication in itself cannot be used to determine whether a
cylinder is running too lean or too rich. The highest EGT cylinder is
not necessarily the leanest. The only way to determine the mixture
condition is to pull the mixture control progressively and monitor the
EGT on all cylinders. The leanest cylinder is the one which will reach
peak EGT first. Of course you cannot do that on a Rotax as there is no
mixture control. The only thing EGT can do on a Rotax, in case of a big
engine problem, is to help diagnose which cylinder is the culprit.
Additional comments:
With the Europa XS cowling, the EGT probes on cylinders 1 and 2 are
cooled by direct ram air from the round intakes and this has proved to
affect their indication.
The Rotax Flydat has 4 EGT channels but shows EGT on two cylinders at
a time and switches automatically back and forth. That makes EGT very
uneasy to read. Any other engine monitor on the market is certainly
better.
My plane was fitted with a 914 with Flydat and 4 EGTs when I bought
it. When I replaced the engine with the 912S five years ago, I kept the
Flydat but did not install EGT probes and it works for me.
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
<<<<<< as there's no mixture control, EGT
indication does not add much to the CHT/coolant indication that comes
as standard. >>>>>>>>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: does rotax need egt? |
Remi Guerner wrote:
> Hi Rowland and all,
>
> In my opinion, EGT indication on any Rotax engine is useless. EGT
> indication is extremely sensitive to the position of the probe inside
> the exhaust stack. This is one of the reasons why, on any piston
> engine, the EGT indication in itself cannot be used to determine
> whether a cylinder is running too lean or too rich. The highest EGT
> cylinder is not necessarily the leanest. The only way to determine the
> mixture condition is to pull the mixture control progressively and
> monitor the EGT on all cylinders. The leanest cylinder is the one
> which will reach peak EGT first. Of course you cannot do that on a
> Rotax as there is no mixture control. The only thing EGT can do on a
> Rotax, in case of a big engine problem, is to help diagnose which
> cylinder is the culprit.
> Additional comments:
> With the Europa XS cowling, the EGT probes on cylinders 1 and 2 are
> cooled by direct ram air from the round intakes and this has proved to
> affect their indication.
> The Rotax Flydat has 4 EGT channels but shows EGT on two cylinders at
> a time and switches automatically back and forth. That makes EGT very
> uneasy to read. Any other engine monitor on the market is certainly
> better.
> My plane was fitted with a 914 with Flydat and 4 EGTs when I bought
> it. When I replaced the engine with the 912S five years ago, I kept
> the Flydat but did not install EGT probes and it works for me.
> Regards
>
> Remi Guerner
> F-PGKL
>
Remi
We had a Classic with a Grand Rapids EIS and 4 EGTs. I soon noticed that
EGT varies in an unusual way with throttle setting. The mixture is
affected by throttle position because of the effect of momentum on the
fuel droplets, which tend to go to the front cylinders at WOT and the
rear at part throttle.
One thing is apparent, the very high EGTs the Rotax has in normal
operation. This means the exhaust system is under considerable thermal
stress.
I tend to the feeling that EGT is worth having for diagnostic reasons
but difficult to understand on the Rotax.
Graham
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: New Purchase G-BXGG |
Hi David,
Congratulions through this forum as well with your new bird!
I am glad that you found a new aircraft after I bought yours :wink:
Cheers
Marcel
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: does rotax need egt? |
Well put Graham.
It is a diagnostic tool of which you have no control over from the
cockpit...
Bud Yerly
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Singleton<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: does rotax need egt?
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>>
Remi Guerner wrote:
> Hi Rowland and all,
>
> In my opinion, EGT indication on any Rotax engine is useless. EGT
> indication is extremely sensitive to the position of the probe
inside
> the exhaust stack. This is one of the reasons why, on any piston
> engine, the EGT indication in itself cannot be used to determine
> whether a cylinder is running too lean or too rich. The highest EGT
> cylinder is not necessarily the leanest. The only way to determine
the
> mixture condition is to pull the mixture control progressively and
> monitor the EGT on all cylinders. The leanest cylinder is the one
> which will reach peak EGT first. Of course you cannot do that on a
> Rotax as there is no mixture control. The only thing EGT can do on a
> Rotax, in case of a big engine problem, is to help diagnose which
> cylinder is the culprit.
> Additional comments:
> With the Europa XS cowling, the EGT probes on cylinders 1 and 2 are
> cooled by direct ram air from the round intakes and this has proved
to
> affect their indication.
> The Rotax Flydat has 4 EGT channels but shows EGT on two cylinders
at
> a time and switches automatically back and forth. That makes EGT
very
> uneasy to read. Any other engine monitor on the market is certainly
> better.
> My plane was fitted with a 914 with Flydat and 4 EGTs when I bought
> it. When I replaced the engine with the 912S five years ago, I kept
> the Flydat but did not install EGT probes and it works for me.
> Regards
>
> Remi Guerner
> F-PGKL
>
Remi
We had a Classic with a Grand Rapids EIS and 4 EGTs. I soon noticed
that
EGT varies in an unusual way with throttle setting. The mixture is
affected by throttle position because of the effect of momentum on the
fuel droplets, which tend to go to the front cylinders at WOT and the
rear at part throttle.
One thing is apparent, the very high EGTs the Rotax has in normal
operation. This means the exhaust system is under considerable thermal
stress.
I tend to the feeling that EGT is worth having for diagnostic reasons
but difficult to understand on the Rotax.
Graham
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Kitplanes request to fly west coast Europa |
Guys,
I received a call from Kitplanes Magazine requesting a flight evaluation
on the Europa.
I am arranging for them to have the story done while at Sebring for the
LSA Show. However, just in case, do I have a volunteer for a high
exposure interview and test flight in the XS, and motor glider. Yes,
the pressure is on. Kitplanes is based in Southern California and would
prefer a close airplane. Obviously a good looking plane is a must, with
excellent flight, stall and cruise characteristics . I am arranging a
motor glider, an XS and a prototype LSA for Florida. Should their
schedule change or problems arise with weather, sickness, aircraft
malfunctions, etc., would anyone like to volunteer? With transportation
costs rising and lead times getting shorter for the magazine, I may need
a backup.
You can expect them to fly with you, ask about building the plane,
support, etc. I would prefer to have some in-flight numbers on cruise
and climb in real world available.
Volunteers?
Aircraft photo's and info needed by those volunteering (but not
necessarily a good looking pilot photo, thank God).
Bud Yerly
US Europa Dealer
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