---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/12/09: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:49 AM - New Purchase G-BXGG (David Joyce) 2. 04:14 AM - does rotax need egt? (Remi Guerner) 3. 11:05 AM - Re: does rotax need egt? (Raimo Toivio) 4. 01:22 PM - Re: does rotax need egt? (Graham Singleton) 5. 01:27 PM - Re: New Purchase G-BXGG (zwakie) 6. 01:55 PM - Re: does rotax need egt? (Bud Yerly) 7. 02:30 PM - Kitplanes request to fly west coast Europa (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:07 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Europa-List: New Purchase G-BXGG Well it couldn't last forever (not owning a Europa), I have just purchased G-BXGG from John Richardson, who I have to remark is a true Gentleman. John and his wife Patricia have made the transition of ownership easy and most pleasant, I wish them both well in thier new venture. I am now looking forward to DOTHS, visits and the pleasure of flying a Europa again. Rgds to all David J Joyce "the other one" G-BXGG note to the other/ other one I hope to see you soon on an away day.....;-) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:54 AM PST US From: "Remi Guerner" Subject: Europa-List: does rotax need egt? Hi Rowland and all, In my opinion, EGT indication on any Rotax engine is useless. EGT indication is extremely sensitive to the position of the probe inside the exhaust stack. This is one of the reasons why, on any piston engine, the EGT indication in itself cannot be used to determine whether a cylinder is running too lean or too rich. The highest EGT cylinder is not necessarily the leanest. The only way to determine the mixture condition is to pull the mixture control progressively and monitor the EGT on all cylinders. The leanest cylinder is the one which will reach peak EGT first. Of course you cannot do that on a Rotax as there is no mixture control. The only thing EGT can do on a Rotax, in case of a big engine problem, is to help diagnose which cylinder is the culprit. Additional comments: With the Europa XS cowling, the EGT probes on cylinders 1 and 2 are cooled by direct ram air from the round intakes and this has proved to affect their indication. The Rotax Flydat has 4 EGT channels but shows EGT on two cylinders at a time and switches automatically back and forth. That makes EGT very uneasy to read. Any other engine monitor on the market is certainly better. My plane was fitted with a 914 with Flydat and 4 EGTs when I bought it. When I replaced the engine with the 912S five years ago, I kept the Flydat but did not install EGT probes and it works for me. Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL <<<<<< as there's no mixture control, EGT indication does not add much to the CHT/coolant indication that comes as standard. >>>>>>>> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:45 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: does rotax need egt? Remi, just curious: why did you replace the engine (914T) and went to 912S ? Raimo OH-XRT 152 hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: Remi Guerner To: Europa-List Digest Server Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:13 PM Subject: Europa-List: does rotax need egt? Hi Rowland and all, In my opinion, EGT indication on any Rotax engine is useless. EGT indication is extremely sensitive to the position of the probe inside the exhaust stack. This is one of the reasons why, on any piston engine, the EGT indication in itself cannot be used to determine whether a cylinder is running too lean or too rich. The highest EGT cylinder is not necessarily the leanest. The only way to determine the mixture condition is to pull the mixture control progressively and monitor the EGT on all cylinders. The leanest cylinder is the one which will reach peak EGT first. Of course you cannot do that on a Rotax as there is no mixture control. The only thing EGT can do on a Rotax, in case of a big engine problem, is to help diagnose which cylinder is the culprit. Additional comments: With the Europa XS cowling, the EGT probes on cylinders 1 and 2 are cooled by direct ram air from the round intakes and this has proved to affect their indication. The Rotax Flydat has 4 EGT channels but shows EGT on two cylinders at a time and switches automatically back and forth. That makes EGT very uneasy to read. Any other engine monitor on the market is certainly better. My plane was fitted with a 914 with Flydat and 4 EGTs when I bought it. When I replaced the engine with the 912S five years ago, I kept the Flydat but did not install EGT probes and it works for me. Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL <<<<<< as there's no mixture control, EGT indication does not add much to the CHT/coolant indication that comes as standard. >>>>>>>> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:33 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: does rotax need egt? Remi Guerner wrote: > Hi Rowland and all, > > In my opinion, EGT indication on any Rotax engine is useless. EGT > indication is extremely sensitive to the position of the probe inside > the exhaust stack. This is one of the reasons why, on any piston > engine, the EGT indication in itself cannot be used to determine > whether a cylinder is running too lean or too rich. The highest EGT > cylinder is not necessarily the leanest. The only way to determine the > mixture condition is to pull the mixture control progressively and > monitor the EGT on all cylinders. The leanest cylinder is the one > which will reach peak EGT first. Of course you cannot do that on a > Rotax as there is no mixture control. The only thing EGT can do on a > Rotax, in case of a big engine problem, is to help diagnose which > cylinder is the culprit. > Additional comments: > With the Europa XS cowling, the EGT probes on cylinders 1 and 2 are > cooled by direct ram air from the round intakes and this has proved to > affect their indication. > The Rotax Flydat has 4 EGT channels but shows EGT on two cylinders at > a time and switches automatically back and forth. That makes EGT very > uneasy to read. Any other engine monitor on the market is certainly > better. > My plane was fitted with a 914 with Flydat and 4 EGTs when I bought > it. When I replaced the engine with the 912S five years ago, I kept > the Flydat but did not install EGT probes and it works for me. > Regards > > Remi Guerner > F-PGKL > Remi We had a Classic with a Grand Rapids EIS and 4 EGTs. I soon noticed that EGT varies in an unusual way with throttle setting. The mixture is affected by throttle position because of the effect of momentum on the fuel droplets, which tend to go to the front cylinders at WOT and the rear at part throttle. One thing is apparent, the very high EGTs the Rotax has in normal operation. This means the exhaust system is under considerable thermal stress. I tend to the feeling that EGT is worth having for diagnostic reasons but difficult to understand on the Rotax. Graham ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Purchase G-BXGG From: "zwakie" Hi David, Congratulions through this forum as well with your new bird! I am glad that you found a new aircraft after I bought yours :wink: Cheers Marcel Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:49 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: does rotax need egt? Well put Graham. It is a diagnostic tool of which you have no control over from the cockpit... Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham Singleton To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: does rotax need egt? > Remi Guerner wrote: > Hi Rowland and all, > > In my opinion, EGT indication on any Rotax engine is useless. EGT > indication is extremely sensitive to the position of the probe inside > the exhaust stack. This is one of the reasons why, on any piston > engine, the EGT indication in itself cannot be used to determine > whether a cylinder is running too lean or too rich. The highest EGT > cylinder is not necessarily the leanest. The only way to determine the > mixture condition is to pull the mixture control progressively and > monitor the EGT on all cylinders. The leanest cylinder is the one > which will reach peak EGT first. Of course you cannot do that on a > Rotax as there is no mixture control. The only thing EGT can do on a > Rotax, in case of a big engine problem, is to help diagnose which > cylinder is the culprit. > Additional comments: > With the Europa XS cowling, the EGT probes on cylinders 1 and 2 are > cooled by direct ram air from the round intakes and this has proved to > affect their indication. > The Rotax Flydat has 4 EGT channels but shows EGT on two cylinders at > a time and switches automatically back and forth. That makes EGT very > uneasy to read. Any other engine monitor on the market is certainly > better. > My plane was fitted with a 914 with Flydat and 4 EGTs when I bought > it. When I replaced the engine with the 912S five years ago, I kept > the Flydat but did not install EGT probes and it works for me. > Regards > > Remi Guerner > F-PGKL > Remi We had a Classic with a Grand Rapids EIS and 4 EGTs. I soon noticed that EGT varies in an unusual way with throttle setting. The mixture is affected by throttle position because of the effect of momentum on the fuel droplets, which tend to go to the front cylinders at WOT and the rear at part throttle. One thing is apparent, the very high EGTs the Rotax has in normal operation. This means the exhaust system is under considerable thermal stress. I tend to the feeling that EGT is worth having for diagnostic reasons but difficult to understand on the Rotax. Graham www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:23 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Europa-List: Kitplanes request to fly west coast Europa Guys, I received a call from Kitplanes Magazine requesting a flight evaluation on the Europa. I am arranging for them to have the story done while at Sebring for the LSA Show. However, just in case, do I have a volunteer for a high exposure interview and test flight in the XS, and motor glider. Yes, the pressure is on. Kitplanes is based in Southern California and would prefer a close airplane. Obviously a good looking plane is a must, with excellent flight, stall and cruise characteristics . I am arranging a motor glider, an XS and a prototype LSA for Florida. Should their schedule change or problems arise with weather, sickness, aircraft malfunctions, etc., would anyone like to volunteer? With transportation costs rising and lead times getting shorter for the magazine, I may need a backup. You can expect them to fly with you, ask about building the plane, support, etc. I would prefer to have some in-flight numbers on cruise and climb in real world available. Volunteers? Aircraft photo's and info needed by those volunteering (but not necessarily a good looking pilot photo, thank God). Bud Yerly US Europa Dealer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.