Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:12 AM - Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... (Matt Dralle)
1. 02:18 AM - Re: Safety improvement list (zwakie)
2. 02:24 AM - Re: PH-DIY (zwakie)
3. 04:18 AM - Re: Re: Safety improvement list (Raimo Toivio)
4. 04:42 AM - Re: Re: Safety improvement list (Raimo Toivio)
5. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: Safety improvement list (Graham Singleton)
6. 06:36 AM - komputer krash (Graham Singleton)
7. 06:52 AM - Tailplane balance mass (Frans Veldman)
8. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: PH-DIY (Frans Veldman)
9. 07:19 AM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (Karl Heindl)
10. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: PH-DIY (Karl Heindl)
11. 07:29 AM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (Brian Davies)
12. 07:45 AM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (Bob Borger)
13. 08:49 AM - Re: Safety improvement list (Graham Singleton)
14. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: Safety improvement list (Raimo Toivio)
15. 10:05 AM - Re: Safety improvement list (Raimo Toivio)
16. 10:05 AM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (Frans Veldman)
17. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: Safety improvement list (Fred Klein)
18. 10:31 AM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
19. 10:36 AM - Re: Safety improvement list (ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk)
20. 10:37 AM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (Fred Klein)
21. 11:58 AM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (craig bastin)
22. 12:59 PM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (Jan de Jong)
23. 01:43 PM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (Frans Veldman)
24. 01:52 PM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (Frans Veldman)
25. 04:45 PM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (Graham Singleton)
26. 04:48 PM - Re: Tailplane balance mass (Karl Heindl)
27. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: Safety improvement list (Graham Singleton)
28. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: Safety improvement list (Paul McAllister)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... |
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi wrote:
> Weldone Fred, ...
>
> If I asked "would you Fred make an another set of those headrest expanders
for me" would you?
> If so, I am your customer and #1 in this queue, please.
>
And I would be #2 for sure!
Marcel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274596#274596
Message 2
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Hi Frans and Illona,
As I told you both when I visited you a few weeks ago, you have an absolute beautiful
airplaine. The pictures show just part of her beauty for sure!
Please let me know when you're going to take her up the first time, I would love
to be around on that main event!
Marcel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274597#274597
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
Fred,
maybe this the beginning of your new business career:
you have at least two orders and your customers do not know the prices even...
Raimo OH-XRT
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "zwakie" <mz@cariama.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:13 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Safety improvement list
>
>
> raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi wrote:
> > Weldone Fred, ...
> >
> > If I asked "would you Fred make an another set of those headrest expanders
for me" would you?
> > If so, I am your customer and #1 in this queue, please.
> >
>
>
> And I would be #2 for sure!
>
> Marcel
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274596#274596
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
Graham
>
Trouble with any fixed in line filter is you cannot check it without
disturbing the fuel lines so the rubber hose gets eroded every time it
is removed.
That is not an argument!
Flying 50 hrs a year and changing an inline filter once a year is an average, I
assume.
We change all the rubber parts every five year (some change them every 10 year).
Changing mostly because of ageing.
I bet my plane this disturbing (because of changing filters 5 to 10 times) means
nothing for quality rubber hoses.
Think how much or how often the bungee or tyre rubber is disturbed.
Raimo OH-XRT from Suomi
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
Raimo
what about his beautiful wing root fairings?? Have you ordered any?
Graham ;-)
Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Fred,
>
> maybe this the beginning of your new business career:
> you have at least two orders and your customers do not know the prices even...
>
> Raimo OH-XRT
>
Message 6
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All
black Sunday for me, my dirty red Windoze PC crashed after an automatic
update download so I lost all emails and addresses. So,,,,,,,,,, if
anyone is waiting for a reply from me you probably won't get one unless
you send a reminder. Think I should go back to primary school and try
and learn Ubuntu.
Graham
Message 7
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| Subject: | Tailplane balance mass |
Gentlemen, I have an important question.
How did the tailplane balancing work out for you with the Europa
supplied counter weights? How much did you need to remove from the
weights, or did you need to add some weight?
I have a large weight, a middle sized one, and three smaller ones. Prior
to filling and painting, one of each size was sufficient to roughly
balance the tailplanes. The tailplanes were built by the factory and
have not been modified (except for the mandatory mod, but this was at
the axis of the tailplane and shouldn't have much influence on the balance).
Now, my airplane is painted, and I discovered that with all 5 weights on
the balance arm, I'm still slightly out of balance.
The manual strongly suggests that it should be "more than likely" that
some weight has to be removed, and that it is very unlikely that one
needs additional weight. But I need additional weight, and I want to
know whether this is normal, and if not, what the reason is.
As I said, the controls where factory built, and I had no reason to
believe that they were heavier than average.
My airplane has been filled and painted by a well respected painter who
has not only built himself an airplane as well, but has filled and
painted many airplanes from the Dutch homebuilders club. It is not
likely to assume that he has done a bad job on my airplane or used non
suitable materials, but at the moment it starts to look like he added
quite some weight to my airplane. Also the ailerons appeared to be
heavy, as they appeared in balance without any of the material removed
from the lead blocks.
Knowing the weight I needed to add to balance the tailplanes I could
roughly work out that each tailplane gained about 1 Kg of filler and
paint. Is this reasonable?
So, I would very much like to know whether it could be somewhat normal
that the balance weighs are just a tad to light for their task.
I plan to weight my airplane soon, but I'm getting quite worried about it...
Frans
Message 8
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zwakie wrote:
> As I told you both when I visited you a few weeks ago, you have an absolute beautiful
airplaine. The pictures show just part of her beauty for sure!
Thanks!
> Please let me know when you're going to take her up the first time, I would love
to be around on that main event!
I will let you know. This saturday we will get the mandatory
transponder, ELT, pitot/static tests done and compass calibration. If
there is also someone around to do the mandatory "examination" of the
airplane I might be able to get the airworthyness certificate very soon.
Once the paperwork is done, we will start working on the first flight. :-)
Frans
Message 9
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| Subject: | Tailplane balance mass |
Frans=2C
My tailplanes are in the house and I just weighed the port one. It is 5.9 k
g.
Karl
> Date: Tue=2C 24 Nov 2009 15:50:08 +0100
> From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane balance mass
>
l>
>
> Gentlemen=2C I have an important question.
>
> How did the tailplane balancing work out for you with the Europa
> supplied counter weights? How much did you need to remove from the
> weights=2C or did you need to add some weight?
>
> I have a large weight=2C a middle sized one=2C and three smaller ones. Pr
ior
> to filling and painting=2C one of each size was sufficient to roughly
> balance the tailplanes. The tailplanes were built by the factory and
> have not been modified (except for the mandatory mod=2C but this was at
> the axis of the tailplane and shouldn't have much influence on the balanc
e).
> Now=2C my airplane is painted=2C and I discovered that with all 5 weights
on
> the balance arm=2C I'm still slightly out of balance.
> The manual strongly suggests that it should be "more than likely" that
> some weight has to be removed=2C and that it is very unlikely that one
> needs additional weight. But I need additional weight=2C and I want to
> know whether this is normal=2C and if not=2C what the reason is.
>
> As I said=2C the controls where factory built=2C and I had no reason to
> believe that they were heavier than average.
>
> My airplane has been filled and painted by a well respected painter who
> has not only built himself an airplane as well=2C but has filled and
> painted many airplanes from the Dutch homebuilders club. It is not
> likely to assume that he has done a bad job on my airplane or used non
> suitable materials=2C but at the moment it starts to look like he added
> quite some weight to my airplane. Also the ailerons appeared to be
> heavy=2C as they appeared in balance without any of the material removed
> from the lead blocks.
>
> Knowing the weight I needed to add to balance the tailplanes I could
> roughly work out that each tailplane gained about 1 Kg of filler and
> paint. Is this reasonable?
>
> So=2C I would very much like to know whether it could be somewhat normal
> that the balance weighs are just a tad to light for their task.
>
> I plan to weight my airplane soon=2C but I'm getting quite worried about
it...
>
> Frans
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 10
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My starboard tailplane is 5.8 kg.
> Date: Tue=2C 24 Nov 2009 16:06:26 +0100
> From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: PH-DIY
>
l>
>
> zwakie wrote:
>
> > As I told you both when I visited you a few weeks ago=2C you have an ab
solute beautiful airplaine. The pictures show just part of her beauty for s
ure!
>
> Thanks!
>
> > Please let me know when you're going to take her up the first time=2C I
would love to be around on that main event!
>
> I will let you know. This saturday we will get the mandatory
> transponder=2C ELT=2C pitot/static tests done and compass calibration. If
> there is also someone around to do the mandatory "examination" of the
> airplane I might be able to get the airworthyness certificate very soon.
> Once the paperwork is done=2C we will start working on the first flight.
:-)
>
> Frans
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Tailplane balance mass |
Frans,
I built my own tailplanes and they required less weight than that supplied.
I recently helped someone balance their tailplanes who had used factory
built parts. We needed all of his weights plus what was left over from my
weights. His aircraft was painted by an auto guy and could be on the heavy
side regarding filler and paint. 1 Kg per TP sounds a lot to me but I did
not do a "before and after" weigh so I will leave it to others to comment.
Hope that helps.
Regards
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman
Sent: 24 November 2009 14:50
Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane balance mass
--> <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
Gentlemen, I have an important question.
How did the tailplane balancing work out for you with the Europa supplied
counter weights? How much did you need to remove from the weights, or did
you need to add some weight?
I have a large weight, a middle sized one, and three smaller ones. Prior to
filling and painting, one of each size was sufficient to roughly balance the
tailplanes. The tailplanes were built by the factory and have not been
modified (except for the mandatory mod, but this was at the axis of the
tailplane and shouldn't have much influence on the balance).
Now, my airplane is painted, and I discovered that with all 5 weights on the
balance arm, I'm still slightly out of balance.
The manual strongly suggests that it should be "more than likely" that some
weight has to be removed, and that it is very unlikely that one needs
additional weight. But I need additional weight, and I want to know whether
this is normal, and if not, what the reason is.
As I said, the controls where factory built, and I had no reason to believe
that they were heavier than average.
My airplane has been filled and painted by a well respected painter who has
not only built himself an airplane as well, but has filled and painted many
airplanes from the Dutch homebuilders club. It is not likely to assume that
he has done a bad job on my airplane or used non suitable materials, but at
the moment it starts to look like he added quite some weight to my airplane.
Also the ailerons appeared to be heavy, as they appeared in balance without
any of the material removed from the lead blocks.
Knowing the weight I needed to add to balance the tailplanes I could roughly
work out that each tailplane gained about 1 Kg of filler and paint. Is this
reasonable?
So, I would very much like to know whether it could be somewhat normal that
the balance weighs are just a tad to light for their task.
I plan to weight my airplane soon, but I'm getting quite worried about it...
Frans
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:46:00
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane balance mass |
Frans,
Lovely aircraft! Almost as pretty as the young lady sitting on the wing with you.
For what it's worth, my tailplane balanced with one big, one middle and two small
weights positioned using washers behind them such that the weights were held
full forward against the roll pin. The weights had all been bead blasted to
remove some thin rust then primed and painted. So they might be a tiny bit heavier
than plain weights.
I not only static balanced the tailplane, but also "dynamically" checked the balance.
That is, I made sure the tail was in balance and had no tendency for the
weights to raise or fall on their own. For the dynamic balance check, I quickly
lifted and lowered the tail to ensure that the tailplane did not move when
the tail was moved. This was easier to accomplish with my Monowheel than it
might be with your tri-gear.
Check six,
Bob Borger
On Tuesday, November 24, 2009, at 08:50AM, "Frans Veldman" <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
wrote:
>
>Gentlemen, I have an important question.
>
>How did the tailplane balancing work out for you with the Europa
>supplied counter weights? How much did you need to remove from the
>weights, or did you need to add some weight?
>
>I have a large weight, a middle sized one, and three smaller ones.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
Raimo
you missed my point!
It is possible to block the filter in one tank filling as happened to a
Europa I saw recently. It is more sensible to check gascolator before
EVERY flight instead of risking an out landing. Without disturnbing the
fuel lines.
Graham
Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> Graham
>
> Trouble with any fixed in line filter is you cannot check it without
> disturbing the fuel lines so the rubber hose gets eroded every time it
> is removed.
>
> That is not an argument!
>
> Flying 50 hrs a year and changing an inline filter once a year is an average,
I assume.
> We change all the rubber parts every five year (some change them every 10 year).
> Changing mostly because of ageing.
>
> I bet my plane this disturbing (because of changing filters 5 to 10 times) means
nothing for quality rubber hoses.
>
> Think how much or how often the bungee or tyre rubber is disturbed.
>
> Raimo OH-XRT from Suomi
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
Wau, Graham
are you talking about same man?
What a talent producer of Europa Enhancement Equipments!
If I still were in a building phase, I would obviously have liked to get those
Wing Root Fairings by UFACI
(Uncle Freds Aviation Composite Industrial) LTD.
Now it is too late I am afraid (only one life I have).
But who knows, maybe there will be a future winter delay and nothing to do...how
is that Fred?
Raimo OH-XRT from Suomi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Safety improvement list
>
> Raimo
> what about his beautiful wing root fairings?? Have you ordered any?
> Graham ;-)
>
> Raimo Toivio wrote:
> >
> > Fred,
> >
> > maybe this the beginning of your new business career:
> > you have at least two orders and your customers do not know the prices even...
> >
> > Raimo OH-XRT
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
Graham,
I did not. You wrote
"the rubber hose gets eroded every time it (a filter)
> > is removed."
That was my point only.
If you change a filter let is say 5 to 10 times during rubber hoses life time,
they do not get eroded at all.
That is surely The Fact.
> It is possible to block the filter in one tank filling
That is of course true. I know it because I have been there.
But NEVER again. Why?
Because I am now a better pilot and
1) my tank is totally clean since that incidense.
2) there will never ever be any contaminants any more in my tank becauce
a) I use only carefully filtered (by me) unleaded autopetrol (Mogas)
b) I use only totally clean 100LL which is a self-evident truth (at least in
Finland)
When refueling our planes we have to be very carefull !
For example it (Andair) does not help if we refuel JetA1...I mean it doesnt make
wonders.
I think Europas idea to use two parallel installed inline filters is good.
One for main and one for a reserve tank. It is reasonable.
And - BTW - those in-line filters are also checkable before EVERY flight.
I do it every 5 flight hours (like removing the upper cowling same time also).
Nice to change ideas with you, Graham.
Raimo OH.-XRT from Suomi
PS: should I take a photo from Rotax Original -type in-line filter?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Safety improvement list
>
> Raimo
> you missed my point!
> It is possible to block the filter in one tank filling as happened to a
> Europa I saw recently. It is more sensible to check gascolator before
> EVERY flight instead of risking an out landing. Without disturnbing the
> fuel lines.
> Graham
>
>
> Raimo Toivio wrote:
> >
> > Graham
> >
> > Trouble with any fixed in line filter is you cannot check it without
> > disturbing the fuel lines so the rubber hose gets eroded every time it
> > is removed.
> >
> > That is not an argument!
> >
> > Flying 50 hrs a year and changing an inline filter once a year is an average,
I assume.
> > We change all the rubber parts every five year (some change them every 10 year).
> > Changing mostly because of ageing.
> >
> > I bet my plane this disturbing (because of changing filters 5 to 10 times)
means nothing for quality rubber hoses.
> >
> > Think how much or how often the bungee or tyre rubber is disturbed.
> >
> > Raimo OH-XRT from Suomi
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane balance mass |
Karl Heindl wrote:
> My tailplanes are in the house and I just weighed the port one. It is 5.9 kg.
Mine are 6.3 and 6.4...
Indeed quite heavy.
I wish I had weighed them before they went to the painter... Now I don't
know whether the factory made them heavy or the painter...
If it is the factory, I'm lucky. If it was the painter, well, ehm, let's
see. If the tailplanes are 1 Kg heavier than they should be, the how
much should the main wings be overweight? And the fuselage?
Frans
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
On Nov 24, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> If I still were in a building phase, I would obviously have liked to
> get those Wing Root Fairings by UFACI
> (Uncle Freds Aviation Composite Industrial) LTD.
>
> Now it is too late I am afraid (only one life I have).
> But who knows, maybe there will be a future winter delay and nothing
> to do...how is that Fred?
> Raimo OH-XRT from Suomi
Raimo,
The truth is that the fairings would be a relatively easy retrofit to
a completed aircraft during a season when flying is curtailed and a
workshop or hangar is available where you can rig and de-rig the
wings. One would, of course, have to surmount the psychological
barrier of getting out the Dremel, sandpaper, some resin, etc. and
going back to the painters.
(The stock XS wing root fairings, if installed per the manual, would
have to be removed on the upper surface of the wing aft of the spar.)
Flight tests with and without the fairings by Jeff Behrens on his
trigear show improvements in L/D of 11 to 14% at various airspeeds and
3.75% increase in rate of climb; if you're interested I would be happy
to send you the documentation; perhaps I should post it somewhere on
the Europa Builders website...yes, I will do that.
Aesthetics are pretty subjective, but IMHO, they do improve the
Europa's appearance.
Fred
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane balance mass |
Hi Frans
"Karl Heindl wrote:
My tailplanes are
in the house and I just weighed the port one. It is 5.9 kg. Mine are
6.3 and 6.4...
Indeed quite heavy."
When
building flying wing slope planes just a little extra finishing weight
makes them go tailheavy quite easily.Same story withEeuropa
stabialtors.
Going forwardadding an extra weight if you
have space or making them out of lead or with tungsten inserts or both
should not cause you much problem.
I don't know where your CG
comes in at, but if you are tending towards nose heavy, perhaps consider
making a synergistic harmonazation, add a little tailweight and remove
about 15% of the stresses on the mass balance arm and stabilator drive
pins?
http://www.europaowners.org/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=28658
compared to just adding weight to mass balance arm which will increase
stresses on pins.
Ron Parigoris
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
Raimo Remember that the reserve side will be the most likley to
recieve any contaminant since that is where the filler is, so.........
should there ever be a major contaninant event when you switch to
reserve it just may not be quite so ready to provide fuel.
Regards
Bob Harrison .
>----Original Message----
>From: raimo.toivio@rwm.fi
>Date: 24/11/2009 18:04
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subj: Re: Europa-List: Safety improvement list
>
fi>
>
>Graham,
>
>I did not. You wrote
>
>"the rubber hose gets eroded every time it (a filter)
>> > is removed."
>
>That was my point only.
>If you change a filter let is say 5 to 10 times during rubber hoses
life time, they do not get eroded at all.
>That is surely The Fact.
>
>> It is possible to block the filter in one tank filling
>
>That is of course true. I know it because I have been there.
>But NEVER again. Why?
>
>Because I am now a better pilot and
>
>1) my tank is totally clean since that incidense.
>2) there will never ever be any contaminants any more in my tank
becauce
> a) I use only carefully filtered (by me) unleaded autopetrol
(Mogas)
> b) I use only totally clean 100LL which is a self-evident truth
(at least in Finland)
>
>When refueling our planes we have to be very carefull !
>
>For example it (Andair) does not help if we refuel JetA1...I mean it
doesnt make wonders.
>
>I think Europas idea to use two parallel installed inline filters is
good.
>One for main and one for a reserve tank. It is reasonable.
>
>And - BTW - those in-line filters are also checkable before EVERY
flight.
>I do it every 5 flight hours (like removing the upper cowling same
time also).
>
>Nice to change ideas with you, Graham.
>
>Raimo OH.-XRT from Suomi
>
>PS: should I take a photo from Rotax Original -type in-line filter?
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:45 PM
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Safety improvement list
>
>
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>>
>> Raimo
>> you missed my point!
>> It is possible to block the filter in one tank filling as happened
to a
>> Europa I saw recently. It is more sensible to check gascolator
before
>> EVERY flight instead of risking an out landing. Without disturnbing
the
>> fuel lines.
>> Graham
>>
>>
>> Raimo Toivio wrote:
toivio@rwm.fi>
>> >
>> > Graham
>> >
>> > Trouble with any fixed in line filter is you cannot check it
without
>> > disturbing the fuel lines so the rubber hose gets eroded every
time it
>> > is removed.
>> >
>> > That is not an argument!
>> >
>> > Flying 50 hrs a year and changing an inline filter once a year is
an average, I assume.
>> > We change all the rubber parts every five year (some change them
every 10 year).
>> > Changing mostly because of ageing.
>> >
>> > I bet my plane this disturbing (because of changing filters 5 to
10 times) means nothing for quality rubber hoses.
>> >
>> > Think how much or how often the bungee or tyre rubber is
disturbed.
>> >
>> > Raimo OH-XRT from Suomi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
The latest news as it happens - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane balance mass |
On Nov 24, 2009, at 7:17 AM, Karl Heindl wrote:
> My tailplanes are in the house and I just weighed the port one. It
> is 5.9 kg.
> My starboard tailplane is 5.8 kg.
Karl,
Would those weights be with or without the anti-servo trim tabs?
Fred
A194
Message 21
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| Subject: | Tailplane balance mass |
Frans, rather than adding more weight, can you make the effective weight
more by lengthening the arm,
at present, mine is balanced with the big weight and one small one, if i
slide it right out to the end
or two small ones if right back, maybe a small increase right at the end of
the arm, with say a lead weight
might allow for less overall weight, just a thought.
craig
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane balance mass |
craig bastin wrote:
>
> Frans, rather than adding more weight, can you make the effective weight
> more by lengthening the arm,
> at present, mine is balanced with the big weight and one small one, if i
> slide it right out to the end
> or two small ones if right back, maybe a small increase right at the end of
> the arm, with say a lead weight
> might allow for less overall weight, just a thought.
>
> craig
>
Or replace drilled out steel by lengths of tungsten electrode:
http://www.lasplaza.nl/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=175&products_id=1182
Same thought, but keeping the supplied weights.
Jan de Jong
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane balance mass |
> craig bastin wrote:
>> Frans, rather than adding more weight, can you make the effective weight
>> more by lengthening the arm,
Jan de Jong wrote:
> Or replace drilled out steel by lengths of tungsten electrode:
Ok, thanks. The problem however is not how to solve this. I just wanted
to know if it could be somehow acceptable that I have to add weight, or
that it indicates that something is terribly wrong.
I will weigh the total aircraft to see how bad it is. Hopefully just the
factory built controls or filling work is somewhat heavy, and the rest
of the airplane is ok.
Frans
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane balance mass |
rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
> I don't know where your CG
> comes in at, but if you are tending towards nose heavy, perhaps consider
Probably not. I have the batteries (2 x PC310) under the bagage bay, and
a heavy fixed (mandatory) ELT behind the D-panel. If it turns out that
I'm still nose heavy, I will move the ELT as far away in the tail as
neccessary to get into the desired range. Then I have found at least one
usefull purpose for the ELT. ;-)
Your solution is nice, but only if you otherwise have to fly around with
useless weight in the tail. It will cost more weight to balance the
tailplanes by making the leading edge heavier, instead of adding weights
to the balance arm.
Frans
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane balance mass |
Frans
if you cut some lead sheet washers and use them instead of the small
steel weight that will reduce the extra weight requiref. You might also
polish some paint off the back of the tail ;-)
Be interested to know the all up weight
Graham
> , thanks. The problem however is not how to solve this. I just wanted
>
> to know if it could be somehow acceptable that I have to add weight, or
> that it indicates that something is terribly wrong.
>
> I will weigh the total aircraft to see how bad it is. Hopefully just the
> factory built controls or filling work is somewhat heavy, and the rest
> of the airplane is ok.
>
> Frans
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Tailplane balance mass |
Fred=2C
That is for the fully assembled unit. Only extras are chromed brass pip pin
hole covers=2C and my mod of replaced ss TP5 with long aluminum tube. Only
filler used was for filling in the weave. I assume that most tailplanes ar
e around the same weight.
Karl
From: fklein@orcasonline.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane balance mass
On Nov 24=2C 2009=2C at 7:17 AM=2C Karl Heindl wrote:
My tailplanes are in the house and I just weighed the port one. It is 5.9 k
g.
My starboard tailplane is 5.8 kg.
Karl=2C
Would those weights be with or without the anti-servo trim tabs?
Fred
A194
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
Fred
can't argue with that! Very impressive performance results too, be nice
to see someone else confirm, I think Justin claims an improvement too
Graham
>
>
> Flight tests with and without the fairings by Jeff Behrens on his
> trigear show improvements in L/D of 11 to 14% at various airspeeds and
> 3.75% increase in rate of climb; if you're interested I would be happy
> to send you the documentation; perhaps I should post it somewhere on
> the Europa Builders website...yes, I will do that.
>
> Aesthetics are pretty subjective, but IMHO, they do improve the
> Europa's appearance.
>
> Fred
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Safety improvement list |
Hi, I was wondering if Justin ever published his numbers. - Paul
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Graham Singleton <
grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
> grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> Fred
> can't argue with that! Very impressive performance results too, be nice to
> see someone else confirm, I think Justin claims an improvement too
>
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