Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:48 AM - Re: Emergency parachutes, opinions? (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
2. 04:15 AM - Altimeter (Remi Guerner)
3. 06:50 AM - Re: Altimeter (Richard Iddon)
4. 07:58 AM - Re: Eat, sleep and speak Europa (Bob Borger)
5. 08:25 AM - Re: Eat, sleep and speak Europa (Peter Zutrauen)
6. 08:52 AM - Re: Eat, sleep and speak Europa (Bob Borger)
7. 09:31 AM - Europa- Fresh air vents (Bob Fairall)
8. 10:06 AM - Jumping out of a Europa and parachutes (Myron Haluschak)
9. 10:21 AM - Re: Europa- Fresh air vents (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
10. 10:41 AM - Re: Jumping out of a Europa and parachutes (David Joyce)
11. 11:41 AM - Europa 4s (Raimo Toivio)
12. 12:01 PM - Re: Europa- Fresh air vents ()
13. 12:55 PM - Re: Europa- Fresh air vents (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
14. 01:06 PM - Re: Europa- Fresh air vents (A B Milne)
15. 04:21 PM - Re: Europa- Fresh air vents (rampil)
16. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: Europa- Fresh air vents (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
17. 07:48 PM - Re: Europa- Fresh air vents (Robert Borger)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Emergency parachutes, opinions? |
Michel=0Athat looks interesting, why not resend in English?=0Aregards of th
e season, I will be in the hills near Malaga, trying to unforget my espanol
!=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Michel AU
VRAY <mau11@free.fr>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, 16
December, 2009 10:36:19=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Emergency parachutes, o
fr>=0A=0ARemi Guerner a =E9crit :=0A> <<<<<Can the airplane be reused after
a BRS deployment?>>>>>>>=0A> Hi all,=0A> Regarding whole airplane emerge
ncy parachutes there are some interresting videos on the BRS web site. One
of them shows a RANS S6 deploying its parachute after hitting the tow rope
of a glider tow over Gap airfield in south east France.=0A> http://brsparac
hutes.com/files/brsparachutes/files/cnn_off_air.wmv=0A> On the same video t
here is a parachute deployment on a Cirrus. They say both the Cirrus and th
e Rans were back in the air after repair.=0A> Remi Guerner *=0A> =0A> =0A
> *=0ASalut R=E9mi,=0AJ'ai vu plusieurs de ces vid=E9os, et j'ai m=EAme ass
ist=E9 =E0 un test de BRS, le bonhomme s'en sort mais l'appareil est g=E9n
=E9ralement d=E9truit ce n'est pas forc=E9ment visible mais la structure es
t morte et c'=E9tait avec un cessna 152 r=E9put=E9 solide, il est all=E9 di
rectement =E0 la casse.=0A=0AG=E9n=E9ralement la vitesse de descente avoisi
ne les 7 =E0 8 m/s. M=EAme =E0 5 m/s l'appareil a de tr=E8s gros dommages.
=0A=0APour obtenir 6 m/s il faut environ 1m=B2 de tissu pour 1kg de charge
soit pour un europa =E0 621 kg au moins 600m=B2 ce qui p=E8se plus de 50kg,
et m=EAme =E0 cette vitesse l'appareil est tr=E8s endommag=E9=0A=0ATout le
reste est du marketing relativement bidon.=0A=0AL'autre solution est le par
achute personnel, mais l=E0 il faut =E9vacuer l'appareil, car d=E9ja sortir
d'un Europa en vol stable cela ne doit pas =EAtre simple, mais s'il est en
mauvaise configuration c'est une autre affaire.=0ALe parachute sur l'avion
reste la solution la meilleure pour sauver sa peau mais surement pas pour
sauver l'avion =E0 condition toutefois que le dispositif ait =E9t=E9 implan
t=E9 lors de l'=E9tude de l'appareil int=E9grant le centrage.=0AMaintenant
compte tenu de l'abaissement lors de la s=E9quence d'ouverture si on vole
=E0 1000ft c'est fichu.=0ALes tests r=E9alis=E9s par tous les dispositifs l
e sont =E0 5000ft.=0A=0AMais le r=EAve du parachute subsiste, la plupart de
s vid=E9os sont r=E9alis=E9es avec des ULM ou avions all=E9g=E9s au maximum
naturellement.=0APersonnellement je ne revolerai pas sur un appareil ayant
subi un tel impact, car aucun appareil au monde n'est con=E7u et =E9tudi
=E9 pour cela.=0AA+=0A=0A-- =0A --|--=0A--------(*)-------- Michel AUV
==================
Message 2
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Regarding altimeter errors, I had an interresting experience last month:
I had removed my instrument panel module for working on my autopilot
installation. As my altimeter (United) has been consistently showing a 2
to 2.5 millibars error for the last few years, I took this opportunity
to remove it and take it to an instrument shop for repair. After
overhaul I checked it was ok, then I install it back on the panel. The
next day, I was surprised to discover that the altimeter was wrong about
4 millibars, worse than before the overhaul! I removed it again from
the panel, and was ready to take it back to the instrument shop when I
found that the indication was now correct. After some thinking I
realized what happened: my instrument panel module is fitted with quick
disconnect fittings for both the static and pitot lines.Those fittings
have a shut-off valve. Therefore, when the panel is removed, the
altimeter is not connected to the ambiant static pressure anymore, and a
change in the atmospheric pressure will not be seen by the altimeter,
but, due to the thermal expansion of the air trapped inside the line,
any change of the temperature will!
Most Europas are fitted with those quick disconnect fittings at the port
wing root. So when your fuselage is at home on the trailer, do not be
fooled by the altimeter indication!
Richard,
Might be the reason of your problem. Please let us know.
Regards
Remi Guerner
<<<<<<<<<<It is a Wultrad I believe. It has been perfectly fine for five
years but
since the aircraft has been laid up for a while, it seems to be over
reading. My house is approx 50ft. above sea level but the altimeter is
reading 200 at todays pressure from local airfields.
Richard.. >>>>>>>>>
Message 3
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Hi Remi.
No. I took the altimeter out of the panel and completely disconnected it
and it is still showing 2000ft. at sea level. The message that John
Wigney sent me pointed to a discussion site which explains that these
altimeters are prone to failure. I have now got another one which I
hope will be OK. Thanks for all the posts.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi
Guerner
Sent: 17 December 2009 12:12
Subject: Europa-List: Altimeter
Regarding altimeter errors, I had an interresting experience last month:
I had removed my instrument panel module for working on my autopilot
installation. As my altimeter (United) has been consistently showing a 2
to 2.5 millibars error for the last few years, I took this opportunity
to remove it and take it to an instrument shop for repair. After
overhaul I checked it was ok, then I install it back on the panel. The
next day, I was surprised to discover that the altimeter was wrong about
4 millibars, worse than before the overhaul! I removed it again from
the panel, and was ready to take it back to the instrument shop when I
found that the indication was now correct. After some thinking I
realized what happened: my instrument panel module is fitted with quick
disconnect fittings for both the static and pitot lines.Those fittings
have a shut-off valve. Therefore, when the panel is removed, the
altimeter is not connected to the ambiant static pressure anymore, and a
change in the atmospheric pressure will not be seen by the altimeter,
but, due to the thermal expansion of the air trapped inside the line,
any change of the temperature will!
Most Europas are fitted with those quick disconnect fittings at the port
wing root. So when your fuselage is at home on the trailer, do not be
fooled by the altimeter indication!
Richard,
Might be the reason of your problem. Please let us know.
Regards
Remi Guerner
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/16/09 19:52:00
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Eat, sleep and speak Europa |
Ron,
Maybe I should address Matt on this, but I get a 404 error when I click on the
Attachment link.
And I sure want to see the picture!
Bob Borger
On Wednesday, December 16, 2009, at 11:30PM, "rparigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
wrote:
>
>My wife has been complaining for some time, and rightly so that I sleep and speak
too much Europa.
>My build partner Wayne presented me with a holiday gift that will now allow me
to eat Europa!
>Happy holidays
>Ron Parigoris
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277850#277850
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/bread_3_small_197.jpg
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Eat, sleep and speak Europa |
here you go
:-)
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Bob Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> Maybe I should address Matt on this, but I get a 404 error when I click on
> the Attachment link.
>
> And I sure want to see the picture!
>
> Bob Borger
>
> On Wednesday, December 16, 2009, at 11:30PM, "rparigoris" <
> rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
> rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> >
> >My wife has been complaining for some time, and rightly so that I sleep
> and speak too much Europa.
> >My build partner Wayne presented me with a holiday gift that will now
> allow me to eat Europa!
> >Happy holidays
> >Ron Parigoris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277850#277850
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Attachments:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com//files/bread_3_small_197.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Eat, sleep and speak Europa |
Peter,
Thanks!
Bob
On Thursday, December 17, 2009, at 10:21AM, "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
wrote:
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Europa- Fresh air vents |
I'm progressing well on my second Europa (kit 494) and exploring the optio
ns for cockpit fresh air.
My existing Europa has the plastic adjustable NACA duct type air inlets by
pilot and passenger's knees, but these are not particularly effective.
I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems which I
gather are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere that cutting the
roof can compromise the strength of the cockpit module.
All (UK) LAA approvable suggestions gratefully received.
Thanks
Bob Fairall (G-BXLK, mono classic, 400 hours and for sale, & G-CBXW)
______________________________________________________________________
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Subject: | Jumping out of a Europa and parachutes |
Hello All:
Firstly Merry Christmas to all, and best wishes for a safe and happy New
Year.
I have been following the discussions regarding the parachute and jumping
out of planes. I'm hoping my two cents will add another perspective to the
thoughts presented.When I first received my kit, adding a BRS was something
I considered doing, knowing I would have to redesign and make structural
alterations for the fit of the chute myself. After discussions with BRS and
Cirrus reps., I decided it was a task beyond my scope. The Cirrus breakaway
system, ie., the means by which the chute leaves the "channel" that the
shrouds and lines rest in, is a complex structure. I saw a chute before it
was hidden from view, and it was clear that alot of money, testing and
re-testing went into the final product...not practical for me as I only
have, and plan to have, one hull to play with. Is it impossible? Certainly
not, but before I was about to turn this endeavour into an experiment, I had
decided the old fashioned way would have to do. Jumping out is the last
thing you want to do, but in certain situations it may be your last
plausible means to save yourself. I have jumped out of several types, round
and square airfoils, as part of my military training in the F-16, and some
recreational jumps out of Cubs, Cessnas, Otters, etc., and what I have seen
is, a planned evacuation, even under optimal conditions can go wrong
quickly. Can you remember the last time you tried to get into a Cub? It
wasn't easy for sure, especially if you are new to it...now try getting out
with a full harness, from the back seat. Of course every plane is different,
and on that occasion, conditions were optimal, the attitude was upright,
speed slow, and a fairly big door, with a pilot in control. Cessnas are
better but also pose their own set of circumstances. The bigger, the easier
the egress is. I don't have a flying Europa to jump out of yet, but have
flown in several. And one thing I noticed was the relative ease getting in,
but afterwards, in the seating position that we all occupy, it is not that
easy to move. It was one thing I liked about the Europa to begin with, but
because it was rather restricted, I knew it would be a bailing out issue if
I were ever in that situation. Getting out wouldn't be impossible, just
difficult, especially fighting the effects gravity now has when your
attitude is not optimal, and you don't have a pilot holding her steady for
the egress. There's one factor that I cannot account for and that's the
adrenalin factor for when there's a real sitaution...it's not one you can
simulate very well. I'm sure it would add some extra motivation to get out,
but it's not something anyone can unilaterally say will get you out. Bare in
mind, as adrenalin goes up, your cognitive and rational thought process
decreases, which is why some people may say, "whatever made me do or say
that?" Whatever the situation and risk involved, we have chosen a pastime
that has grave inherent risks, balanced off by the many great experiences it
also carries. It's clear a BRS could save you in a dire sitaution, but from
a realistic perspective, a personal parachute seems the best solution, and
even then there are inherent risks in getting out. An egress that was
described in an earlier post made it sound so easy, get out of the cockpit,
straddle the rail and climb out onto the wing and either slip off the end or
out toward the tip... that's alot to bite off in the real world, under a
life or death scenario. With that said, I would likely wear my personal
chute for the early phases of flight, but there comes a time when you should
leave the thing on the ground. It's not my intent to oppose a view or
suggest what I feel is the only right thing to do, what I would suggest is
know YOUR plane and your personal limitations and plan accordingly. You may
find a chute is for you or not. One day when we have a BRS tested and
mounted, life will be simple again. If I can suggest anything, practice
emergency procedures until they are habitual, know your own plane as if it
were your child, and don't be complacent with anything. It may not have you
covered 100% all the time, but this is flying..pilots die with ejection
seats too.
Myron A046 XS monowheel
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Europa- Fresh air vents |
Bob-
I have been working with Flight Crafters and have installed the system as I
have progressed.=C2- They recommend an NACA duct mounted on the rudder.
=C2- Attach a 2 inch stainless mesh to it to keep critters out and FLOX i
t in.=C2- I used the mesh from a stainles steel tea strainer.=C2- Run
=C2-2 inch SCAT tubing to a channel along the inside of the fuselage top.
=C2- The channel is made from 2 X BID over a foam mold.=C2- The channel
feeds the overhead panel where you can install eye vents.=C2- I used a s
ingle very large eye vent from Stein Air in the back and another in the fro
nt.=C2- How does it work?=C2- Can't say, I am not flying yet, but Bob h
as installed a number and says they work just fine.=C2- He uses the small
er eyeball vents.=C2- Also, AS sells an "ultimate vent" that you install
directly under the rear corners of the windshield that supposedly works ver
y well.=C2- The price of all the vents is bout $ 100 each.=C2-
Jim Puglise A-283
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fairall" <Bob.Fairall@fairalls.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:25:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Europa-List: Europa- Fresh air vents
I=99m progressing well on my second Europa (kit 494) and exploring th
e options for cockpit fresh air.
My existing Europa has the plastic adjustable NACA duct type air inlets by
pilot and passenger=99s knees, but these are not particularly effecti
ve.
I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems which I g
ather are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere that cutting the r
oof can compromise the strength of the cockpit module.
All (UK) LAA approvable suggestions gratefully received.
Thanks
Bob Fairall (G-BXLK, mono classic, 400 hours and for sale, & G-CBXW)
______________________________________________________________________
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Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Jumping out of a Europa and parachutes |
Myron, If you want to get out of your Europa and it's still under control,
then I suspect the answer is: Undo Canopy & Seat belt, Pause to make sure
you didn't undo parachute straps by mistake, roll to inverted & push the
stick forward. The rest is easy apart from learning to land a parachute.
On the other hand if the plane is still under control and not on
fire I would stay seated in virtually all circumstances and look to land it
somewhere. Survival rates are high (over 90%) landing in trees or water and
should be 100% if you just have a few hundred yds of flattish land.
Having been following Europa crashes closely for over 10 years, I
can only think of one situation where I might have welcomed a parachute and
I strongly suspect it wouldn't have helped then anyway. I refer to the break
up of William Mills' Classic Europa at what was probably the end of a Vne
dive. He lost a wing and tailplane in mid air, but I suspect that the
violent gyrations of a one winged plane would have made it impossible to
exit the cockpit even if he had not been rendered unconscious.
So personally, in spite of owning a parachute that came with my
glider, I have never felt it worth taking in the Europa
Merry Christmas & Happy Landings, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
Message 11
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Europa community
With this attached space view I wish you all wonderful holidays and a
very safe new year.
Raimo Toivio
Finland
OH-XRT #417 Mono
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Europa- Fresh air vents |
Hi Bob
I have fitted a Pair of ultimate vent to my aircraft, They work very well, much
better that the Europa NACA vents, The only problem is a small amount of weepage
if flying in rain, In Spain this year with temperatures approaching 40C it
was bearable, so I would recomend them.
Ivor
---- Bob Fairall <Bob.Fairall@fairalls.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm progressing well on my second Europa (kit 494) and exploring the options
for cockpit fresh air.
>
> My existing Europa has the plastic adjustable NACA duct type air inlets by pilot
and passenger's knees, but these are not particularly effective.
>
> I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems which I gather
are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere that cutting the roof can
compromise the strength of the cockpit module.
>
> All (UK) LAA approvable suggestions gratefully received.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob Fairall (G-BXLK, mono classic, 400 hours and for sale, & G-CBXW)
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ______________________________________________________________________
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Europa- Fresh air vents |
Bob,
Try putting a small VGs infront of each of the entry-ramps to the "knee
level" vents; these should then create an inflow that is more than
adequate.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Fairall
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Europa- Fresh air vents
I'm progressing well on my second Europa (kit 494) and exploring the
options for cockpit fresh air.
My existing Europa has the plastic adjustable NACA duct type air
inlets by pilot and passenger's knees, but these are not particularly
effective.
I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems
which I gather are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere that
cutting the roof can compromise the strength of the cockpit module.
All (UK) LAA approvable suggestions gratefully received.
Thanks
Bob Fairall (G-BXLK, mono classic, 400 hours and for sale, & G-CBXW)
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
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______________________________________________________________________
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Europa- Fresh air vents |
For my second Europa I used the Aircraft Spruce supplied circular type
in the same location as the NACA type in the kit.
These operate in butterfly valve fashion, seal well and are controllable
from a dribble of cold air that is enough to clear misting in the winter
to a good blast from the lap upwards on hot days. If required a handy
map can divert the airflow anywhere within reason.
Alasdair Milne G-CEYK
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Fairall
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Europa- Fresh air vents
I'm progressing well on my second Europa (kit 494) and exploring the
options for cockpit fresh air.
My existing Europa has the plastic adjustable NACA duct type air
inlets by pilot and passenger's knees, but these are not particularly
effective.
I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems
which I gather are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere that
cutting the roof can compromise the strength of the cockpit module.
All (UK) LAA approvable suggestions gratefully received.
Thanks
Bob Fairall (G-BXLK, mono classic, 400 hours and for sale, & G-CBXW)
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
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______________________________________________________________________
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Europa- Fresh air vents |
Hi All,
I have been flying my bird for more than five years with Bob and Russell's
design for a rudder to canopy overhead vents.
I have to say its a great idea, that the fronto-lateral surface of the
rudder should be a nice high pressure area to feed the duct, but in
practice, in cruise, the air flow from these vents is barely perceptible.
Far more ventilation occurs from the open armrest/fuel filter tunnel,
probably from the flap slots (which should be negative pressure at
first look!)
If I felt like an improvement in this department, I would cover the
external naca vent and just put a rotating vent in the door window.
Just my opinion!
Ira
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278001#278001
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Europa- Fresh air vents |
We chose on our XS Mono to go the route of the Ultimate ventilators as
sold by Aircraft Spruce. Although Vans sells units that are similar, they
are smaller (and less expensive).
Richards XS with conventional gear
has Ultimate vebntilators and they work well.
Here is our install
with some pics at endwith location others have chosen:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=36201
Ron Parigoris
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Europa- Fresh air vents |
Bob,
I have elected to go with the ACS Ultimate Ventilators. In my 20 hours
so far, they seem to do a reasonable job of providing airflow into the
cockpit when you want it and cut it off effectively when you don't.
You can see pics of the ventilators:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=63921
and my installation:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=66265&g2_page=
2
on my build web site.
Check six,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Aircraft Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Dec 17, 2009, at 11:25, Bob Fairall wrote:
> I=92m progressing well on my second Europa (kit 494) and exploring the
options for cockpit fresh air.
>
> My existing Europa has the plastic adjustable NACA duct type air
inlets by pilot and passenger=92s knees, but these are not particularly
effective.
>
> I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems
which I gather are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere that
cutting the roof can compromise the strength of the cockpit module.
>
> All (UK) LAA approvable suggestions gratefully received.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob Fairall (G-BXLK, mono classic, 400 hours and for sale, & G-CBXW)
>
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