Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:55 AM - Re: Diesel Europa tri-gear MG? (Terry Seaver (terrys))
2. 11:03 AM - GPS antenna mounted to instrument module (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
3. 11:06 AM - Instrument module cooling/demisting (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
4. 11:50 AM - Re: GPS antenna mounted to instrument module ()
5. 12:30 PM - Re: GPS antenna mounted to instrument module (Mike Parkin)
6. 12:46 PM - Fuel tank graph (Fergus Kyle)
7. 01:17 PM - Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting (david miller)
8. 02:11 PM - Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
9. 02:15 PM - Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
10. 02:46 PM - Re: GPS antenna mounted to instrument module (rampil)
11. 02:47 PM - Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting (Bud Yerly)
12. 03:22 PM - Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
13. 03:32 PM - Mono wheel conversion (Martin Boyle)
14. 03:46 PM - Re: Mono wheel conversion (Graham Singleton)
15. 03:57 PM - Re: Mono wheel conversion (Jeff B)
16. 03:57 PM - Re: Mono wheel conversion (Garry Stout)
17. 11:05 PM - Re: GPS antenna mounted to instrument module (mau11)
18. 11:09 PM - Re: Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting (mau11)
19. 11:10 PM - Re: Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting (mau11)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Diesel Europa tri-gear MG? |
Hi Gary, Dwight,
My partner, Dave DeFord, and I have a monowheel XS with the 912S and
Airmaster prop. We built it first with short wings, with our first
flight in 2001. We have since built the long wings, and have been
flying with them about two years now. Even with the relatively light
912S, we are a little nose heavy with the long wings on. We were warned
by Dave Anderson that we might need some ballast in the tail when we
switched to the long wings, and he was right. Installing a diesel
weighing considerably more would create serious weight and balance
problems.
As far as registration, our plane was registered as a homebuilt
aircraft, not necessarily SEL. When we talked to our FAA examiner about
re-registering the plane as a motorglider, he said we only needed to
send him a letter describing the change to the plane, and he would sign
it off and send it back to us, requiring a nominal fly off of a few
hours. If it is flown as an SEL and the pilot is legal to fly SEL, then
that is what it is. If is equipped consistent with a motorglider, and
the pilot has the proper rating, then it is a motorglider.
Theoretically, if we put a rotor mast on it, and get the proper rating,
it could also be an autogiro (after sending our FAA examiner a
description of the change and getting a sign off from him).
Regards,
Terry Seaver
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Leinberger
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:04 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Diesel Europa tri-gear MG?
<Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
It is a good project idea - I am building my Europa MG tri-gear with
full IFR with the same ideas . I have both sets of wings but will fly
first with the short ones. I did think about a bigger engine but
settled on the 912S. Unlike hot rods - more power is not necessarily
good - there are very real problems of weight and balance as well as
structural strength with a bigger engine - as well as handling. And more
power won't necessarily translate into more speed or performance. There
is also a safety issue - besides weight and balance. The airfoil, wing
area and stabilators are designed for certain speeds and weight - fly at
over the weight limit or speed limit and very bad things can happen.
The plane as designed is very nice, and any mods greatly increase the
build time - as I have learned the hard way.
As for only two seats - I can only think of a few trips in 38 years of
flying where I had more than 2 people in a plane.
I looked at attaching a BRS (I have one in my Kitfox Lite) but it would
require a complete re-engineering of the airplane. And in the Europa (as
in the SR-22) use of the chute destroys the plane. Better to build and
fly so you don't need it - and it only helps in very limited situations
(like an in-flight structural failure at altitude - it won't help in
situations where most accidents happen - take-offs and landings - since
the chute can't deploy fast enough.)
Realize that with the glider wings the carrying weight is reduced as the
wings weigh, I think, 100 pounds more than the short wings.
Be sure you register the plane as a motor glider even if you build the
short wings first as it is very difficult to change the classification
after registering as a SEL.
There is a guy in Utah or Nevada that flies up to 22,000 ft. in his
"Mini-U2" with oxygen. I think he has the 914 Turbo. I think his name is
Dave Anderson(?). He had a web site that was pretty good. It may still
be on the club site.
I would suggest the high top and extra width mod (I am 6 ft tall and
have wide shoulders) - this also gives you a higher windshield that
greatly increases the viewing area. And it appears to not hurt
performance.
Gary Leinberger
A237
________________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin
[craigb@onthenet.com.au]
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Diesel Europa tri-gear MG?
I would suggest you have a look at the MGL EFIS panels, which will give
you the IFR, autopilot gear you need, at a great price compared to most
of the
others. The Smart 1.5l turbo diesel comes in at 95hp, which is about the
same as the rotax engines, fuel consumption runs to about 5 litres an
hours
good luck, sounds like a good project.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dwight Van
Zanen
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:47 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Diesel Europa tri-gear MG?
I am new to this system of communication. If you can direct me to
somewhere to get this information, please let me know.
I have been interested in a Europa for some time and would like your
advice on the feasability of a diesel tri-gear, long wing; with aux fuel
tank, IFR GPS coupled to autopilot with altitude hold, BRS and oxygen
systems. I have looked into the WAM 120 from Weisch Airmotive, but open
to alternatives. I am in the USA where an Experimental glider can be
flown without a medical, night and IFR if properly equipped. Here are
some reasons for my question:
1. Long range: Use a turbo-diesel at 3gph, aux tank, perhaps 2000NM in
economy cruise?
3. GPS direct:
4. Low fuel cost: See #1
5. More safety in a SEL: great power-off glide, diesel fuel, add a BRS
6. Easier to make modifications: EXP, pretty simple systems
7. Cheaper for maintenance: Do it yourself mostly
8. Steady IFR platform: wingspan of 47.25 feet
9. Higher altitudes: turbo-diesel, add oxygen system
10. Remove the wings, take it home in a trailer. No hangar rental.
11. Higher speeds: 150kts TAS @ 10k, turbo for altitude.
12. No medical required for a registered glider in the USA, even for
night and IFR if equipped.
And on the negatives:
13. Reduced to 2 seats. Solo for long range flights. Possible to
increase useful load with more power?
14. Initial cost to buy/build and set it up the way I want it.
15. Necessity of getting the glider rating and self-launch endorsement.
16. No toilet. Not needed with my current plane, but Porta-John works.
17. ? I know some people consider EXP a negative, but see 1-12...
Most of my flying has been solo or with one passenger anyway, retired
with grown kids mostly on the other coast. The MG idea would not work
for everyone, but it seems like it would work for me better than my
current plane does. And the FAA rules allow night and IFR in a properly
equiped MG without a medical. May be valuable as I get older. Thanks
for any advice or comments on feasability. And if anyone is doing
something similar, I would love to hear from you.
Dwight B. Van Zanen
22426 262 Ave. SE
Maple Valley, WA 98038
(425) 432-2213
dbvz@hotmail.com<mailto:dbvz@hotmail.com>
[http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/images/smilies/upload1/blueplane.j
pg]
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Message 2
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| Subject: | GPS antenna mounted to instrument module |
Hi group.
We are working on instrument module at moment.
We have a Garmin 295 and was wondering if anyone has mounted the antenna
to the underside of the top of the instrument module just about above the
gear lever cutout?
Bout how far aft of firewall?
Any input would
be appreciared.
Ron Parigoris
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| Subject: | Instrument module cooling/demisting |
Hi group
We are thinking about mounting four baby30mm cooling
fans flush with the top surface of the instrument module. Two above comm
and transponder and two above dynon D10A. Figure they would help get a
little heat out from under panel and perhaps help a little with demisting.
Each fan moves ~ 3CFM.
Any comments appreciated.
Ron Parigoris
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna mounted to instrument module |
Hi Ron
I have located my two antenna in the roof space between the doors, Garmin 295
and Skyforce 3c, Both work well directly through the roof, No problems with signal
strength or Blanking of signal,
Ivor
:
>
>
> Hi group.
> We are working on instrument module at moment.
> We have a Garmin 295 and was wondering if anyone has mounted the antenna
> to the underside of the top of the instrument module just about above the
> gear lever cutout?
> Bout how far aft of firewall?
> Any input would
> be appreciared.
> Ron Parigoris
Message 5
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| Subject: | GPS antenna mounted to instrument module |
I have a skymap 3c with the antenna mounted underneath the top of the instrument
panel as you describe. It has worked flawlessly for 8 years.
Regards,
Mike (Finally the weight of the paper has reached the AUW of the aircraft. G-JULZ
is at last 'Hot to Trot', just need the weather to agree now'.
> Hi group.
> We are working on instrument module at moment.
> We have a Garmin 295 and was wondering if anyone has mounted the antenna
> to the underside of the top of the instrument module just about above the
> gear lever cutout?
> Bout how far aft of firewall?
> Any input would
> be appreciared.
> Ron Parigoris
Message 6
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Cheers,
For whatever use it may be, I have added a measured fuel tank
contents graph to the Europa Owners Gallery 2. I am on third page halfway
down, and the image is number 9 (there is no number 8 for some reason),
entitled "fueltankgraf.bmp", so fairly lengthy. I'll try to shorten it to
'.jpg' when time allows.
The image includes two values for each depth of fuel, one for
horizontal flight, the other for 9deg tail-down - ground values. Component
built dates are included in case the tank has changed much.
Ferg
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting |
Hi Ron,
I doubt that you need that many, I've got just one small fan
installed, don't know how much air it moves, but it does quite a good
job of de-misting.
Dave C-FBZI
On 8-Feb-10, at 2:01 PM, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
> Hi group
> We are thinking about mounting four baby 30mm cooling fans flush
> with the top surface of the instrument module. Two above comm and
> transponder and two above dynon D10A. Figure they would help get a
> little heat out from under panel and perhaps help a little with
> demisting. Each fan moves ~ 3CFM.
> Any comments appreciated.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting |
Hi Dave
"I doubt that you need that many, I've got just one
small fan installed, don't know how much air it moves, but it does quite a
good job of de-misting."
Thx. for the reply. What's the aprox
square size of your fan you have installed? The onesI am thinking
about are 30mm x 30mm (under 1+1/4" square).
Ron Parigoris
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting |
Hi Dave
"I doubt that you need that many, I've got just one
small faninstalled, don't know how much air it moves, but it does
quite a good job of de-misting."
Thx. for the reply. About what
size square is your single fan? The ones I am interested in are 30mm
square (less than 1+1/4").
In addition to demisting,I want
to keep some heat off of Becker Com and Transponder, and off Dynon
D10A.
Ron Parigoris
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna mounted to instrument module |
Yes Ron, the CRP of the panel is transparent to GPS unless you re-did
your panel in carbon fiber. The plexi windshield is also transparent to
GPS.
Unless you metalized your firewall, it too is essentially transparent.
GPS Antennas are not supposed to "see" down to the horizon, in fact
most receivers with ignore satellites within 5-10 degrees of the horizon
("the masking angle") by orbital calculation in order to avoid atmospheric
distortions of the signal. Since your engine is below the inside ceiling
of the panel, the existence of the engine is a non-factor as well.
My GPS puck is attached to the ceiling of my panel with industrial grade
double sided foam tape.
Ivor, your solution requires extra length of coax cable and a connection to be
broken whenever you need to pull the panel out of the fuse. Extra
coax length and in particular, extra coax connections are extremely hurtful
to GPS signal strength.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285472#285472
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting |
Ron,
No problem with only using one each fan. D-10s need to stay below 120F
so that should be fine. As for GPS antennas, in the 4 or 5 I have
installed, it is best to fashion an aluminum piece shaped like a U for
the active antenna to sit on glued right to the top of the inside of the
panel. The antenna sits in the trough of the U and provides a nice out
of the way place to stick it. All the Garmin, GRT, Blue Mountain and
Anywhere Map units work better with that little piece of aluminum. That
technique was recommended by my Garmin Distributor. It has always
worked for me. Try it...Doesn't cost anything but a thin 4 inch piece
of aluminum.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
----- Original Message -----
From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us<mailto:rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
To: Europa<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:01 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Instrument module cooling/demisting
Hi group
We are thinking about mounting four baby 30mm cooling fans flush with
the top surface of the instrument module. Two above comm and transponder
and two above dynon D10A. Figure they would help get a little heat out
from under panel and perhaps help a little with demisting. Each fan
moves ~ 3CFM.
Any comments appreciated.
Ron Parigoris
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting |
Ron-
I mounted my GPS antennas as Bud suggests but instead of aluminum, I wrappe
d a 2X4 with packaging tape and used it as a mold to make the brackets of B
ID.=C2- I made one about 6 inches long, cut it into two three inches or s
o each and floxed both to the inside of the instrument panel.=C2- I used
one for the GPS antenna and the other for the satelliet radio antenna.=C2
- I cut my coax to about 18 inches so I can easily remove the GPS and sti
ll leave everything plugged in and powered up.=C2-
Jim Puglise A-283
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2010 5:30:13 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Instrument module cooling/demisting
Ron,
No problem with only using one each fan.=C2- D-10s need to stay below 120
F so that should be fine.=C2- As for GPS antennas, in the 4 or 5 I have i
nstalled, it is best to fashion an aluminum piece shaped like a U for the a
ctive antenna to sit on glued right to the top of the inside of the panel.
=C2- The antenna sits in the trough of the U and provides a nice out of t
he way place to stick it.=C2-=C2-All the Garmin, GRT, Blue Mountain and
=C2-Anywhere Map units=C2-work better with that little piece of aluminu
m.=C2- That technique was recommended by my Garmin Distributor.=C2- It
has always worked for me.=C2- Try it...Doesn't cost anything but a thin 4
inch piece of aluminum.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
----- Original Message -----
From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:01 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Instrument module cooling/demisting
Hi group
We are thinking about mounting four baby=C2-30mm cooling fans flush with
the top surface of the instrument module. Two above comm and transponder an
d two above dynon D10A. Figure they would help get a little heat out from u
nder panel and perhaps help a little with demisting. Each fan moves ~ 3CFM.
Any comments appreciated.
Ron Parigoris href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http:
//www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.co
m href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
==
Message 13
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| Subject: | Mono wheel conversion |
Hi To All
I have purchased a part built mono wheel kit and may want to convert it
to TRI gear.When I do this can I remove the consol in the middle as I
find there is not enough room for me as I am 6ft3in tall and 96kg.Has
anybody done this and ois it a factory mod
Thanks M A B
MAB123
Registered User
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:34 pm
a.. Private message
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| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel conversion |
On 08/02/2010 23:24, Martin Boyle wrote:
> Hi To All
> I have purchased a part built mono wheel kit and may want to convert
> it to TRI gear.When I do this can I remove the consol in the middle as
> I find there is not enough room for me as I am 6ft3in tall and
> 96kg.Has anybody done this and ois it a factory mod
> Thanks M A B
Martin
not a good idea, the central tunnel contributes a lot of bending
stiffness and compression strength to the fuselage, (apologise for
clumsy termionology) Think about nosewheel loads and main wheel/wing
weight loads. This part of the fuselage is a beam.
Mods have been done, there is a mod to slim it down in the hips area but
needs care.
Graham
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Mono wheel conversion |
The short answer is no. The tunnel is structural, however, it can be
cut down to some extent, between the seats...
Jeff
Martin Boyle wrote:
> Hi To All
> I have purchased a part built mono wheel kit and may want to convert it
> to TRI gear.When I do this can I remove the consol in the middle as I
> find there is not enough room for me as I am 6ft3in tall and 96kg.Has
> anybody done this and ois it a factory mod
> Thanks M A B
>
> MAB123
> <http://www.europaowners.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=708>
> Registered User
> *Posts:* 1
> *Joined:* Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:34 pm
>
> * Private message
> <http://www.europaowners.org/forums/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose&action=quotepost&p=25293>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Mono wheel conversion |
I was told by Ivan Shaw that the center console is in integral structural
item, and CANNOT be removed. You can narrow it's width, and reduce its
height somewhat, but some structural portion....maybe 75%? Must remain.
Garry Stout
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Boyle
Hi To All
I have purchased a part built mono wheel kit and may want to convert it to
TRI gear.When I do this can I remove the consol in the middle as I find
there is not enough room for me as I am 6ft3in tall and 96kg.Has anybody
done this and ois it a factory mod
Thanks M A B
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna mounted to instrument module |
X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 15, 201, 22 [cn]
Hello, ron
I install two antennas for my 495 GPS :
The first (Garmin) is bonded inside the skin on the roof of the fuselage between
the doors before I dismantling the antenna plastic box, and extracting the electronic
element.
The second antenna from Furuno (is exactly same of Garmin) is bonded on the top
of panel inside the skin. I send to you pictures of these antennas.
Good day
Michel
Builder 145 - 350 hdv
09-02-2010
mau11
De : rparigor
Date/heure : 08-02-2010 20:11:07
A : Europa
Cc :
Sujet : Europa-List: GPS antenna mounted to instrument module
Hi group.
We are working on instrument module at moment.
We have a Garmin 295 and was wondering if anyone has mounted the antenna to the
underside of the top of the instrument module just about above the gear lever
cutout?
Bout how far aft of firewall?
Any input would be appreciared.
Ron Parigoris
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting |
X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 15, 201, 22 [cn]
Hi Ron if you have pictures of fan cooling installation I am interested.
Thanks
09-02-2010
mau11
De : rparigor
Date/heure : 08-02-2010 23:25:56
A : Europa
Cc :
Sujet : Re: Europa-List: Instrument module cooling/demisting
Hi Dave
"I doubt that you need that many, I've got just one small fan installed, don't
know how much air it moves, but it does quite a good job of de-misting."
Thx. for the reply. What's the aprox square size of your fan you have installed?
The ones I am thinking about are 30mm x 30mm (under 1+1/4" square).
Ron Parigoris
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument module cooling/demisting |
X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 15, 201, 22 [cn]
Sorry Ron I omit pictures!
09-02-2010
mau11
De : rparigor
Date/heure : 08-02-2010 23:25:56
A : Europa
Cc :
Sujet : Re: Europa-List: Instrument module cooling/demisting
Hi Dave
"I doubt that you need that many, I've got just one small fan installed, don't
know how much air it moves, but it does quite a good job of de-misting."
Thx. for the reply. What's the aprox square size of your fan you have installed?
The ones I am thinking about are 30mm x 30mm (under 1+1/4" square).
Ron Parigoris
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