---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/17/10: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:54 AM - Autopilot Servo Location (Martin Tuck) 2. 01:48 AM - Re: Autopilot Servo Location (Philip Levi) 3. 02:25 AM - Re: Autopilot Servo Location (Mike Parkin) 4. 02:25 AM - Re: Autopilot Servo Location (Brian Davies) 5. 02:55 AM - Re: Autopilot Servo Location (G-IANI) 6. 02:57 AM - Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (JR Gowing) 7. 03:49 AM - Europa UK parts supply (Tony Renshaw) 8. 03:50 AM - Re: Ivan's email (Frans Veldman) 9. 03:52 AM - Re: Autopilot Servo Location (Paul Mitchell) 10. 04:50 AM - Re: Ivan's email (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 11. 04:57 AM - Re: Ivan's email (Marcel Zwakenberg) 12. 05:11 AM - Re: Europa UK parts supply (Kevin Challis) 13. 06:24 AM - Re: Door hinges to fuselage (William Daniell) 14. 06:24 AM - Re: Ivan's email (Robert C Harrison) 15. 06:24 AM - Re: Door hinges to fuselage (William Daniell) 16. 07:12 AM - fuel fires vs. oil fires? (Fergus Kyle) 17. 08:29 AM - Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (rampil) 18. 08:48 AM - Re: Ivan's email (Frans Veldman) 19. 08:52 AM - Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (PETER HARROD) 20. 09:13 AM - Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (Peter Zutrauen) 21. 09:16 AM - Re: Door hinges to fuselage (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 22. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (Robert C Harrison) 23. 09:39 AM - Re: Door hinges to fuselage (William Daniell) 24. 02:34 PM - Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (rampil) 25. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (JR Gowing) 26. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (Fred Klein) 27. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 28. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (Fred Klein) 29. 06:47 PM - Re: Europa Servos (Martin Tuck) 30. 07:59 PM - Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (Don Heath) 31. 09:44 PM - Re: Re: Europa Servos (JR Gowing) 32. 09:44 PM - Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? (JR Gowing) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:08 AM PST US From: Martin Tuck Subject: Europa-List: Autopilot Servo Location Hi Folks, I'm still considering a panel refurb - out with the pneumatic system and in with an EFIS - I really like the Dynon Skyview. Anyone installed autopilot servos? I think I've seen some roll servos installed under the seat but I've not seen pitch servo installation. Does anyone have any drawings/photos? Regards, Martin Tuck N152MT Wichita, Kansas ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:02 AM PST US From: Philip Levi Subject: Re: Europa-List: Autopilot Servo Location Martin One of the best altitude hold (dual axis) autopilots is the Trio Pilot Pro. Excellent full details are on the Trio web site. I was in correspondence with Paul Mitchell, the UK agent for Trio last December and he was in touch with Andy Draper of the UK Light Aircraft Association which were in the process of giving it approval for the Europa. The relevant correspondence copied to me was: ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Draper Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM Subject: RE: PP into a Europa Hi Paul, Europa are on the verge of launching Mod 76 which covers the altitude hold aspect (awaiting flight test results) and the wing leveller part is covered by the recently introduced Mod 75. Mod 75 effectively replaces SM10507 which has been around for a while now. They've opted for in-house mods to cover the rest of the world. Mods 75 and 76 will be treated as Facory Options now, but both will require inspection checks and flight test autorised by LAA Engineering issued PFRC (as laid down in the mod leaflets). Andy From: Paul Mitchell [mailto:pm@tecnam.co.uk] Sent: 02 December 2009 10:59 Subject: PP into a Europa Andy, What is the currant position in fitting a PP into a Europa.Is it a standard mod yet. Any info gratefully received. Paul Note the reference to *in-house mods for the rest of the world*. You will find it is a very neat and light weight unit at modest cost compared to the competition. However, I do not speak from experience. I plan to purchase it probably later this year after it has been approved by the LAA. Philip Levi G-BWWB Monowheel Classic. E-mail: pjlevi@gmail.com On 17 March 2010 05:30, Martin Tuck wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > I'm still considering a panel refurb - out with the pneumatic system and in > with an EFIS - I really like the Dynon Skyview. > > Anyone installed autopilot servos? I think I've seen some roll servos > installed under the seat but I've not seen pitch servo installation. > > Does anyone have any drawings/photos? > > Regards, > Martin Tuck > N152MT > Wichita, Kansas > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:50 AM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Autopilot Servo Location >Anyone installed autopilot servos? I think I've seen some roll servos >installed under the seat but I've not seen pitch servo installation. Are you a Europa Club Member? Ian Rickard has been putting the final touches to a standard Altitude Hold Mod. As you suggested, the pitch servo is mounted under the seat. I have one similarly mounted under the left hand seat, driven by my Trio Alt Hold. Regards, MP ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:50 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Autopilot Servo Location Hi Martin Ian Richard, the Mods rep on the Europa Club has done full drawings of both roll and pitch servo installations and has been trying to get them issued as standard factory mods. I am sure if you rejoined the Europa Club he would be delighted to send you some drawings :-) Regards Brian Davies The Europa Club membership sec. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Tuck Sent: 17 March 2010 03:30 Subject: Europa-List: Autopilot Servo Location Hi Folks, I'm still considering a panel refurb - out with the pneumatic system and in with an EFIS - I really like the Dynon Skyview. Anyone installed autopilot servos? I think I've seen some roll servos installed under the seat but I've not seen pitch servo installation. Does anyone have any drawings/photos? Regards, Martin Tuck N152MT Wichita, Kansas ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:47 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Autopilot Servo Location Martin Have a look at Mod 75 (roll Autopilot) and Mod 76 (Altitude hold). These are now up on the Europa Web site. At the moment they do not cover the Dynon but the servos are about the same size. As I wrote them, if you have any further questions let me know. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 280 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:03 AM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: Europa-List: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? I have fitted 1/4=22 nylon pipe as return from motor to the main tank and as water drains. For general interest, would users please just flick this message back to me =3F JR Bob Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:50 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Europa UK parts supply From: Tony Renshaw I am interested if anyone who recently purchased parts, specifically a FWF kit from Europa UK, has had any problems? Please reply off list. Reg Tony Renshaw ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:40 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ivan's email On 03/03/2009 10:26 AM, Brian Davies wrote: > His e mail address is available in the members only area of the Europa Club > website. Sorry I cant broadcast it- UK Data Protection Laws! > > If you cant find it, e mail me offline. Sorry to reply on an old topic, but I'm looking for Ivan Shaw's email address as well. Can anyone mail it to me? Best regards, Frans Veldman Oh, and BTW, I changed my email address, found this one more appropriate. ;-) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:47 AM PST US From: "Paul Mitchell" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Autopilot Servo Location Jerry, >From the Europa matronics web site. ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Levi To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Autopilot Servo Location Martin One of the best altitude hold (dual axis) autopilots is the Trio Pilot Pro. Excellent full details are on the Trio web site. I was in correspondence with Paul Mitchell, the UK agent for Trio last December and he was in touch with Andy Draper of the UK Light Aircraft Association which were in the process of giving it approval for the Europa. The relevant correspondence copied to me was: ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Draper To: Paul Mitchell Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:22 AM Subject: RE: PP into a Europa Hi Paul, Europa are on the verge of launching Mod 76 which covers the altitude hold aspect (awaiting flight test results) and the wing leveller part is covered by the recently introduced Mod 75. Mod 75 effectively replaces SM10507 which has been around for a while now. They've opted for in-house mods to cover the rest of the world. Mods 75 and 76 will be treated as Facory Options now, but both will require inspection checks and flight test autorised by LAA Engineering issued PFRC (as laid down in the mod leaflets). Andy From: Paul Mitchell [mailto:pm@tecnam.co.uk] Sent: 02 December 2009 10:59 To: Andy Draper Subject: PP into a Europa Andy, What is the currant position in fitting a PP into a Europa.Is it a standard mod yet. Any info gratefully received. Paul Note the reference to in-house mods for the rest of the world. You will find it is a very neat and light weight unit at modest cost compared to the competition. However, I do not speak from experience. I plan to purchase it probably later this year after it has been approved by the LAA. Philip Levi G-BWWB Monowheel Classic. E-mail: pjlevi@gmail.com On 17 March 2010 05:30, Martin Tuck wrote: Hi Folks, I'm still considering a panel refurb - out with the pneumatic system and in with an EFIS - I really like the Dynon Skyview. Anyone installed autopilot servos? I think I've seen some roll servos installed under the seat but I've not seen pitch servo installation. Does anyone have any drawings/photos? Regards, Martin Tuck : opa-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<=== ============ = --> h a href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:08 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ivan's email Frans=0AIvan is away on a cruise and won't be back until mid April, current ly in Singapore=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF rom: Frans Veldman =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010 10:43:57=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Iva atepilots.nl>=0A=0AOn 03/03/2009 10:26 AM, Brian Davies wrote:=0A=0A> His e mail address is available in the members only area of the Europa Club=0A> website. Sorry I cant broadcast it- UK Data Protection Laws! =0A> =0A> If you cant find it, e mail me offline.=0A=0ASorry to reply on an old topic, b ut I'm looking for Ivan Shaw's email=0Aaddress as well. Can anyone mail it to me?=0A=0ABest regards,=0AFrans Veldman=0A=0AOh, and BTW, I changed my em ======== ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ivan's email From: "Marcel Zwakenberg" Hoi Frans, Ik begrijp dat je er met Andy niet uitkomt? :) Aan Ivan's email-adres kan ik je niet helpen, helaas... Marcel PS First flight niet de komende week doen he, we zitten dan in Curacao... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Frans Veldman [mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl] Sent: woensdag 17 maart 2010 11:44 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ivan's email On 03/03/2009 10:26 AM, Brian Davies wrote: > His e mail address is available in the members only area of the Europa Club > website. Sorry I cant broadcast it- UK Data Protection Laws! > > If you cant find it, e mail me offline. Sorry to reply on an old topic, but I'm looking for Ivan Shaw's email address as well. Can anyone mail it to me? Best regards, Frans Veldman Oh, and BTW, I changed my email address, found this one more appropriate. ;-) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:35 AM PST US From: Kevin Challis Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa UK parts supply Tony I ordered throttle cables 2 months still waiting Kevin On 17 Mar 2010, at 10:42, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > > > I am interested if anyone who recently purchased parts, specifically > a FWF kit from Europa UK, has had any problems? Please reply off list. > Reg > Tony Renshaw > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:44 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door hinges to fuselage Thanks So shoot bolts first and then hinges? Will rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > Hi Will > "Is this normal and if so where in the manual was the instruction to > do this?" > I think a lot of kits need spacers. It isn't in the manual for XS. You > can have a look at my door build, I used some mixing sticks as a > measuring gauge, then JB Welded in some G-10 spacers. One other thing > not in mauual that worked out great for me is first thing making holes > in fuse for shoot bolts, this way you can get precise registration > during fitting (Thx. to Bud for that one). > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=29082 > Ron Parigoris > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:44 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ivan's email Hi! Frans. Ivan Shaw is away cruising into early April I'm pretty sure he surfs the Europa Net . But I'll "patch" your message on to him anyway. BTW do we all change your e-mail address? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman Sent: 17 March 2010 10:44 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ivan's email On 03/03/2009 10:26 AM, Brian Davies wrote: > His e mail address is available in the members only area of the Europa Club > website. Sorry I cant broadcast it- UK Data Protection Laws! > > If you cant find it, e mail me offline. Sorry to reply on an old topic, but I'm looking for Ivan Shaw's email address as well. Can anyone mail it to me? Best regards, Frans Veldman Oh, and BTW, I changed my email address, found this one more appropriate. ;-) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:44 AM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door hinges to fuselage thanks jeff JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > Will, > It's been a while but as I remember I used an aluminum spacer between > the bottom hinge and the fuselage. So it would set right even with the > fuselage I taped the spaces to the bottom hinge around the edges only. > The applied a small amount of redux mixed with a bit of flox to the > area on the fuselage where the spacer would rest. Make sure you have > release tape anywhere the goo might touch. The idea was to use the > mixture as a way see that the door & hinges would be flush when > closed. You would want to trial fit everything with the spacer taped > to the hinge first. If the door is proud of the fuselage top then > remove some of the spacer with a grinder then re fit. If your door is > low when fitted then you can add some more redux flox mixture. I > remember having to sand just a small amount of the door top to come > out exactly to the fuselage top but at least you know the hinges fit > perfectly even this way. > Hope this helps, > > Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush 220 hours and enjoying every flight I can > get between rainy cold days. Would someone tell Al to get the global > warming turned back on? > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:46 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: fuel fires vs. oil fires? ""This combination of hardware provides for physical security of the firewall penetration and a good deal of protection for the grommet against fuel-fed fire. The final touch is addition of the fire-putty fillet around the wire and to cover about half the surface area of the grommet on the engine side. This adds relative gas-tightness for CO and protection of the exposed insulation/grommet from fire."" Bob , I would be delighted to read your appreciation of the relative danger of fuel-fed vs. oil-fed engine fires. While I understand the danger of inflamed fuel, I anticipate cutting off the fuel delivery. I know it cuts the engine but perhaps a forced landing is better than crispy critters. Oil on the other hand is difficult to stop, unless you stop the engine, which is slow and leads to the same fate basically. It also may be modified by later engine re-start. What have I missed? What say you? Ferg ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:05 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? From: "rampil" Hi Bob, Did you check the compatibility of the nylon formulation with gasoline and or alcohols? Other than that, the nylon requires compression fittings which are not what was supplied with the kit. Ira -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290619#290619 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:43 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ivan's email On 03/17/2010 02:16 PM, Robert C Harrison wrote: > Ivan Shaw is away cruising into early April I'm pretty sure he surfs the > Europa Net . But I'll "patch" your message on to him anyway. I have sent him an email already, thanks! > BTW do we all change your e-mail address? Well, I'll listen in on both email addresses, but I intent to use the new privatepilots address for flying related conversations, and use the other one for my Dutch business. ;-) I don't really care which one you use, but the privatepilots address may be easier to remember than the Dutch address which most likely has no comprehensible meaning for you. Frans ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:17 AM PST US From: "PETER HARROD" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? ----- Original Message ----- From: JR Gowing To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:07 PM Subject: Europa-List: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? I have fitted 1/4" nylon pipe as return from motor to the main tank and as water drains. For general interest, would users please just flick this message back to me? JR Bob Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- We are a community of 6 million users fightine Professional version does not have this message. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? From: Peter Zutrauen Is there not a risk of static-induced pinholes with fuel in nylon? Or is that Teflon? Or..... Cheers, Pete A239 On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:52 AM, PETER HARROD < peterandbettyharrod@btopenworld.com> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JR Gowing > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:07 PM > *Subject:* Europa-List: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? > > I have fitted 1/4" nylon pipe as return from motor to the main tank and as > water drains. > > For general interest, would users please just flick this message back to > me? > > JR Bob Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz > > > ------------------------------ > . > We are a community of 6 million users fightine Professional version does > not have this message. > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door hinges to fuselage From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Will "So shoot bolts first and then hinges?" I didn't install shoot bolt guides, just made holes in fuse so shoot bolts can lock door in place. Yes shoot bolt holes before hinges allows easy registritration whenfitting of door the gazillion times you need to take on and off. BTW using tape as a pattern allows you to trim door very close first shot. Pics on link I sent you. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:01 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? Hi! Bob Did you check it's fire resistance time ? I can see melting blobs of nylon .............in the engine compartment. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil Sent: 17 March 2010 14:26 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? Hi Bob, Did you check the compatibility of the nylon formulation with gasoline and or alcohols? Other than that, the nylon requires compression fittings which are not what was supplied with the kit. Ira -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290619#290619 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door hinges to fuselage From: "William Daniell" VGhhbmtzDQpGdW5ueSBob3cgdGhlbiBkb24ndCBtZW50aW9uIGluIHRoZSBtYW51YWwgdGhlIGdh emlsbGlvbiB0aW1lcyB0aGF0IHlvdSBoYXZlIHRvIGRvIHRoaXMgYW5kIGEgZ2F6aWxsaW9uIG90 aGVyIHRoaW5ncyANCldpbGwNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAicnBh cmlnb3JAc3VmZm9say5saWIubnkudXMiIDxycGFyaWdvckBzdWZmb2xrLmxpYi5ueS51cz4NCkRh dGU6IFdlZCwgMTcgTWFyIDIwMTAgMTE6MTQ6MDIgDQpUbzogRXVyb3BhPGV1cm9wYS1saXN0QG1h dHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogRXVyb3BhLUxpc3Q6IERvb3IgaGluZ2VzIHRvIGZ1 c2VsYWdlDQoNCkhpIFdpbGwNCiJTbyBzaG9vdCBib2x0cyBmaXJzdCBhbmQgdGhlbiBoaW5nZXM/ Ig0KSSBkaWRuJ3QgaW5zdGFsbCBzaG9vdCBib2x0IGd1aWRlcywganVzdCBtYWRlIGhvbGVzIGlu IGZ1c2Ugc28gc2hvb3QgYm9sdHMgY2FuIGxvY2sgZG9vciBpbiBwbGFjZS4gWWVzIHNob290IGJv bHQgaG9sZXMgYmVmb3JlIGhpbmdlcyBhbGxvd3MgZWFzeSByZWdpc3RyaXRyYXRpb24gd2hlbiBm aXR0aW5nIG9mIGRvb3IgdGhlIGdhemlsbGlvbiB0aW1lcyB5b3UgbmVlZCB0byB0YWtlIG9uIGFu ZCBvZmYuIEJUVyB1c2luZyB0YXBlIGFzIGEgcGF0dGVybiBhbGxvd3MgeW91IHRvIHRyaW0gZG9v ciB2ZXJ5IGNsb3NlIGZpcnN0IHNob3QuIFBpY3Mgb24gbGluayBJIHNlbnQgeW91Lg0KUm9uIFBh cmlnb3Jpcw0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgLSBUaGUgRXVyb3BhLUxpc3Qg RW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KXy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdh dG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQ0KXy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBV bi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sDQpfLT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2ggJiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1EYXkgQnJv d3NlLCBDaGF0LCBGQVEsDQpfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOg0KXy09 DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9FdXJvcGEtTGlz dA0KXy09DQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAt DQpfLT0gU2FtZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVt cyENCl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KXy09DQpfLT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLQ0KXy09ICBU aGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCENCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4NCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8v d3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KDQoNCg0K ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:31 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? From: "rampil" Triboelectric pinholes (static discharges) happen in thin teflon, which is why the aerospace grade of Aeroquip 666 (the premiere fuel hose IMHO) has an embedded carbon strip through the length of the teflon. I have not heard of triboelectric problems with nylon, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ira -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290664#290664 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:32 PM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? Ira Did not do any checking - just accepted a friend builder's suggestion. Very easy to fit and very easy to take out again. Fittings have a lock ring - push pipe in and it grabs, push on the ring and you can withdraw it. JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "rampil" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 1:26 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? > > Hi Bob, > > Did you check the compatibility of the nylon formulation with gasoline > and or alcohols? > > Other than that, the nylon requires compression fittings which are not > what > was supplied with the kit. > > Ira > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290619#290619 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07:33:00 -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:56 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? Ira...How thin is "thin teflon"? Is automotive EFI R9 hose lined w/ "thin" teflon, or something thicker to deal w/ the issue you describe? If the R9 hose w/ the blue teflon liner IS subject to triboelectric pinholes, why doesn't it concern the auto manufacturers? Fred On Mar 17, 2010, at 1:30 PM, rampil wrote: > > Triboelectric pinholes (static discharges) happen in thin teflon, > which is why the aerospace grade of Aeroquip 666 (the premiere > fuel hose IMHO) has an embedded carbon strip through the length > of the teflon. > > I have not heard of triboelectric problems with nylon, doesn't mean > it doesn't exist. > > Ira > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290664#290664 > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Fred "How thin is "thin teflon"?Is automotive EFI R9 hose lined w/ "thin" teflon, or something thicker to deal w/ the issue you describe? If the R9 hose w/ the blue teflon liner IS subject to triboelectric pinholes, why doesn't it concern the auto manufacturers?" Here is a bit more info: http://www.sacskyranch.com/statichose.htm Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:41 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? quote from http://www.sacskyranch.com/statichose.htm : > Static charge generation occurs as liquids flow through hoses and is > dependent upon the potential of the hose surface to accept or donate > electrons, the speed at which the liquid is moving and the > conductivity of the hose liner. Electrostatic discharge in the form > of an electric spark occurs from the hose inner tube to the steel > braid thereby creating a pin hole leak. > That would seem to indicate that the potential for triboelectric pinholes is a consequence of the steel braid surface of the hose. I have used automotive R9 EFI hose (w/ the blue teflon liner)...(at $6/7 dollars/foot, it's not exactly "cheap")...I have planned on using steel braid on only those hoses which are forward of the firewall...if I carry out that plan, it sounds like all will be well if I use the Mil Spec. MIL-H-25579E hose forward of the firewall or where ever steel braid is used. I would be grateful for any comments anyone? Fred A194 On Mar 17, 2010, at 4:36 PM, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > Hi Fred > "How thin is "thin teflon"? Is automotive EFI R9 hose lined w/ > "thin" teflon, or something thicker to deal w/ the issue you > describe? If the R9 hose w/ the blue teflon liner IS subject to > triboelectric pinholes, why doesn't it concern the auto > manufacturers?" > Here is a bit more info: > http://www.sacskyranch.com/statichose.htm > Ron Parigoris > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:37 PM PST US From: Martin Tuck Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa Servos Thanks for all the replies - most helpful. I just need to know the prices for the Mods now. I see I would need a new pitch pivot tube. Couldn't just find a local welder to put on the plates? Martin Tuck N152MT Wichita, Kansas Richard Wheelwright wrote: > Hi, > Have a look at the Europa web site. Under Mods. The Auto Pilot is on > there, with parts and instructions. > > > ============================================ > > Thank You > Richard Wheelwright > > ============================================ > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:08 PM PST US From: Don Heath Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? JR Gowing wrote: > I have fitted 1/4" nylon pipe as return from motor to the main tank > and as water drains. > > For general interest, would users please just flick this message back > to me? > > JR Bob Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > . > We are a community of 6 million users fightine Professional version > does not have this message. > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:24 PM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa Servos And then, if you did that years ago, you have to put it in there! That is too much for me....... JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Tuck" Forum" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:44 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa Servos > > Thanks for all the replies - most helpful. > > I just need to know the prices for the Mods now. I see I would need a > new pitch pivot tube. Couldn't just find a local welder to put on the > plates? > > Martin Tuck > N152MT > Wichita, Kansas > > Richard Wheelwright wrote: >> Hi, >> Have a look at the Europa web site. Under Mods. The Auto Pilot is on >> there, with parts and instructions. >> >> >> ============================================ >> >> Thank You >> Richard Wheelwright >> >> ============================================ >> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 19:33:00 -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:24 PM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? Pete I just accepted a fellow builder's suggestion that it was becoming popular. Easy to use - etc JR ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Zutrauen To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 3:08 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? Is there not a risk of static-induced pinholes with fuel in nylon? Or is that Teflon? Or..... Cheers, Pete A239 On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:52 AM, PETER HARROD wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: JR Gowing To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:07 PM Subject: Europa-List: Nylon Fuel Piping - how popular has it become? I have fitted 1/4" nylon pipe as return from motor to the main tank and as water drains. For general interest, would users please just flick this message back to me? JR Bob Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - We are a community of 6 million users fightine Professional version does not have this message. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/17/10 07:33:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.