---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/08/10: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:31 AM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (Frans Veldman) 2. 04:12 AM - Re: Re: Left the Nest Today N120EU (Jim Brown) 3. 04:20 AM - Re: Left the Nest Today (h&jeuropa) 4. 05:43 AM - Re: Left the Nest Today N120EU (Troy Maynor) 5. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (Bud Yerly) 6. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (JEFF ROBERTS) 7. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (Paul McAllister) 8. 10:33 AM - 3 comments (David Corbett) 9. 11:56 AM - Mod 67 and Factory (William McClellan) 10. 01:11 PM - Re: Mod 67 and Factory (Richard Wheelwright) 11. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (JEFF ROBERTS) 12. 02:20 PM - What temperature is pheonelic firewall good for? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 13. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (Greg Fuchs) 14. 04:43 PM - Re: Parts orders and where is the factory? Upgrading! (Bud Yerly) 15. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: Electronic Mind Needed (JEFF ROBERTS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:52 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed On 04/08/2010 05:21 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > > battery today I went out and bought a new voltage meeter. I checked the > battery 1st to be at 12.5 volts, I checked the 30 amp fuzes and they are > good. Last week I did find a loose ground and fixed it but to no avail. > Today I check the output of both alternator wires as they we're > connected at the GG connections to the regulator and they we're reading > - 6.5. when connected. The wires from the alternator carry alternating current, so your voltage meter has to be set to AC. What is the battery voltage when the engine is running? You can also disconnect the regulator from the battery, BUT KEEP THE CAPACITOR CONNECTED TO THE REGULATOR! and run the engine (preferably with all avionics switched off) and measure the voltage across the capacitor. Voltage for the standard Rotax regulator should be appr. 13.7 Volts. Let me know how this works out so we have a starting point. Frans ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:38 AM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Left the Nest Today N120EU Troy=0A=0AYou can change the "N " number..You have to give up current # and then choose the next number you want....It will take a little time but it can be done......=0A=0AJim Brown=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________ ____=0AFrom: Troy Maynor =0ATo: europa-list@matronic s.com=0ASent: Wed, April 7, 2010 6:49:42 PM=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Lef r" =0A=0AI totally agree with you; the part about th e EU...I wished a thousand times I had picked another reg. no.- Not neces sarily because of the EU, but because it has nine sylables and is tongue tw ister when talking to ATC. =0AThanks.=0ATroy=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293423#2934 =========================0A ======================0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:57 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Left the Nest Today From: "h&jeuropa" Hi Troy, Congratulations!! Happy to see you in the air. Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293474#293474 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:27 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Left the Nest Today N120EU From: "Troy Maynor" And how do you go about that? Couldn't find anything on the FAA Registration area. Troy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293477#293477 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:20 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed Jeff, Let me pile on... Jim Brown and I have just gone through this. Frans is right on. The GG connections are AC. First confirm the voltage regulator is charging the battery. At 3000 RPM your ammeter should be near zero for a fully charged battery, and voltage should be 13.5-13.8 volts. If it is not, it is the stator or regulator. Regulator: Check the light circuit. Light on with engine off? It is supposed to be OK...Wrong, trust no light only. Check B+ again, with the alternator C and B connected it should be battery voltage, C is often put on an alternator switch, so check that the switch provides battery voltage. Check AC voltage from stator yellow leads. (see heavy mx manual 13.4.7). The regulator is a solid state device and does fail. $190 from Rotax. I used to keep a spare, but too expensive now. Stator: Check the resistance values of the stator yellow leads per the heavy maintenance manual. You need a good Volt/Ohm meter for this. If there is a short, then replacement of the stator is necessary. I have repaired them before, and a year later, I had to go in again and replace it. Yours is a fairly new engine, so you should not have a defective stator like I had. $1200 from Rotax. Enjoy your troubleshooting, Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations. ----- Original Message ----- From: JEFF ROBERTS To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 11:21 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed > Hi All, My electronic problem is continuing to elude me. Thats not saying much since I have never wired anything except a room or two on some houses over the years. With that said I have been having trouble keeping my battery charged over the past 4 or 5 months. Gold Rush has 220 delightful hours on her, but lately she's just not charging the battery, or maybe I have a drain somewhere that wasn't there before. I have replaced the regulator, and the big blue capacitor. After charging the battery today I went out and bought a new voltage meeter. I checked the battery 1st to be at 12.5 volts, I checked the 30 amp fuzes and they are good. Last week I did find a loose ground and fixed it but to no avail. Today I check the output of both alternator wires as they we're connected at the GG connections to the regulator and they we're reading - 6.5. when connected. When disconnected from the regulator they didn't have a reading at all. Is that normal? I also checked the +B output to see if it was sending a charge and it read only .53 volts. If any of you have advise to this non understanding electronics guy that would like to be flying charged to safely get to sun-n-fun let me know. Thanks In Advance!! Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:51 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed Thanks Bud, Frans & all As soon as my work day ends I'm on this. I'll keep ya posted. Thanks!!!! Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush On Apr 8, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Bud Yerly wrote: > Jeff, > Let me pile on... Jim Brown and I have just gone through this. > Frans is right on. The GG connections are AC. > First confirm the voltage regulator is charging the battery. At > 3000 RPM your ammeter should be near zero for a fully charged > battery, and voltage should be 13.5-13.8 volts. If it is not, it is > the stator or regulator. > Regulator: Check the light circuit. Light on with engine off? It > is supposed to be OK...Wrong, trust no light only. > Check B+ again, with the alternator C and B connected it should be > battery voltage, C is often put on an alternator switch, so check > that the switch provides battery voltage. > Check AC voltage from stator yellow leads. (see heavy mx manual > 13.4.7). > The regulator is a solid state device and does fail. $190 from > Rotax. I used to keep a spare, but too expensive now. > > Stator: > Check the resistance values of the stator yellow leads per the heavy > maintenance manual. You need a good Volt/Ohm meter for this. > If there is a short, then replacement of the stator is necessary. I > have repaired them before, and a year later, I had to go in again > and replace it. Yours is a fairly new engine, so you should not > have a defective stator like I had. $1200 from Rotax. > > Enjoy your troubleshooting, > > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JEFF ROBERTS > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 11:21 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed > > > > Hi All, > My electronic problem is continuing to elude me. Thats not saying much > since I have never wired anything except a room or two on some houses > over the years. With that said I have been having trouble keeping my > battery charged over the past 4 or 5 months. Gold Rush has 220 > delightful hours on her, but lately she's just not charging the > battery, or maybe I have a drain somewhere that wasn't there before. I > have replaced the regulator, and the big blue capacitor. After > charging the battery today I went out and bought a new voltage meeter. > I checked the battery 1st to be at 12.5 volts, I checked the 30 amp > fuzes and they are good. Last week I did find a loose ground and fixed > it but to no avail. Today I check the output of both alternator wires > as they we're connected at the GG connections to the regulator and > they we're reading - 6.5. when connected. When disconnected from the > regulator they didn't have a reading at all. Is that normal? > I also checked the +B output to see if it was sending a charge and it > read only .53 volts. > If any of you have advise to this non understanding electronics guy > that would like to be flying charged to safely get to sun-n-fun let me > know. > > Thanks In Advance!! > > Jeff R. N128LJ Gold p; Features Chat, http:// > www.matronnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > _p; generous bsp; title=http:// > www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ">http://www.matronics.com/c================ > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed From: Paul McAllister Jeff, With everything in your aircraft turned off, place an ammeter in series with the battery. It should read zero, if it doesn't then you need to start looking for something discharging it. Another (less likely) scenario is that the battery has an internal fault and is self discharging. I have a couple of thoughts on how to check this, none of them simple so let me think on it a bit more. Question, have you taken it down to somewhere like Batteries Plus and had load test. The battery will need to be fully charged first. Paul ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:55 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: 3 comments From: "David Corbett" 1 Well done, David Joyce, for persevering so long with the Greek CAA - and for your success. 2 I have my battery mounted aft of the luggage bay. I glassed in a 1" braided strip as the negative - this runs inside the fuselage joint on the starboard side. The positive runs though the wheelwell, and is strapped to the starboard side, passing just under the brake unit and thence straight forward. This has been successful. My battery, a Hawker ( but I cannot remember the size as I write) was new in 2000, and started flying early in 2001 - and still appears to be as good as new. But what will happen now that I have written that?! 3 Paddy - I hope to see you at Halfpenny Green 12 ish tomorrow - first DOTH of the season for me. David G-BZAM - about 580 hours ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:11 AM PST US From: William McClellan Subject: Europa-List: Mod 67 and Factory I am wanting to do Mod 67, cockpit width increase, but haven't been able to get any response back from the factory. Anyone know what is going on with the factory not responding? Really the only parts I need are the moldings, F35P, F35S, F36P and F36S, and I could complete the mod. I have already done the alteration to the door shoot bolt push arm. Thanks, Bill McClellan ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:03 PM PST US From: Richard Wheelwright Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 67 and Factory William, Are you in the UK? I have the door molding If you want-them for =A320 each.=0A-=0A================== ===0A=0AThank You=0ARichard Wheelwright=0A=0A======== =============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________ ________=0AFrom: William McClellan =0ATo: "Europa-Li st@matronics.com" =0ASent: Thu, 8 April, 2010 19 :28:43=0ASubject: Europa-List: Mod 67 and Factory=0A=0A--> Europa-List mess age posted by: William McClellan =0A=0AI am wanting to do Mod 67, cockpit width increase, but haven't been able to get any resp onse back from the factory.- Anyone know what is going on with the factor y not responding?- Really the only parts I need are the moldings, F35P, F 35S, F36P and F36S, and I could complete the mod.- I have already done th e alteration to the door shoot bolt push arm.- =0AThanks,=0ABill McClella ===============0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:34 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed On Apr 8, 2010, at 11:51 AM, Paul McAllister wrote: > Jeff, > > With everything in your aircraft turned off, place an ammeter in > series with the battery. It should read zero, if it doesn't then > you need to start looking for something discharging it. I put that on my to do test tonight. Thanks > > Another (less likely) scenario is that the battery has an internal > fault and is self discharging. I have a couple of thoughts on how to > check this, none of them simple so let me think on it a bit more. > > Question, have you taken it down to somewhere like Batteries Plus > and had load test. The battery will need to be fully charged first. No but thats a good idea after I try the other test. Just to busy today to work on it. Maybe tonight. Thanks Paul! > > Paul > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:00 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: What temperature is pheonelic firewall good for? From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Curiosity question, what is the max. temperaturepheonelic firewall isgood for? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:44 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed >... >What is the battery voltage when the engine is running? >You can also disconnect the regulator from the battery, BUT KEEP THE CAPACITOR CONNECTED TO THE REGULATOR! and run the engine (preferably with all avionics switched off) and measure the voltage across the capacitor. >Voltage for the standard Rotax regulator should be appr. 13.7 Volts. >Let me know how this works out so we have a starting point. >Frans Jeff, These are good points from Frans. Just an additional comment. IF this is a shunt regulator (I think it is), it regulates by shorting out the alternator phase(s) to ground, once the voltage starts to go higher than its internal setpoint (lets say somewhere around....14-15 volts or so, at the regulator). If there is no load to the alternator such as accessories and a battery, the regulator has to soak up ALL of the excess power from the alternator. At high engine speeds, this can become very significant. Without cooling, it can be very hard on the regulator. I suggest that if you test (yes, DEFINITELY with the capacitor) without the battery hooked up, try not to run the engine too high in rpm for too long so as not to risk damaging the regulator. IMHO, test with battery in circuit if possible, unless the battery itself is suspected. A charge voltage between 13 and 14 Volts I consider good, and 13.8 ideal. Anything over 12.7 is charging the battery (for lead acid technology). Your battery tested at 12.5. That means its about 84% charged, assuming it is newer and in good shape (or the reading would be higher), does not have any significant load connected to it, or charged within a half day or so of the reading (voltage reading will be high after a charge, but slowly drop to its normal value). If it had measured 12.7V, it would be fully charged. 11.94V would have signified about 10% charge. No-load checks are not the best way to check a battery and these values only work for lead-acid, but it gives an idea of its charge status. This paragraph is just a bit of an aside, but might help if wondering about charge state of the battery or battery diagnostic. If only one cell is bad in the battery (for example, shorted plates), the battery would read low by about 2.1V. Assuming a fully charged, it would be below 10.6V for the voltage reading. If it has a cracked post, its value won't seem to make sense every time you measure it ...charging....loaded....just sitting there... and it will drive you (I mean me) crazy. Good Luck! Regards, Greg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:12 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Parts orders and where is the factory? Upgrading! Bill and everyone. With the on line ordering system and new web interface, it appears there is a problem and none of our emails are getting to Fiona in customer service. Mike McLean and I discussed it this morning and are working the quick catch up drill to get your orders handled as soon as possible. Yes we are phoning as in the 20th century. Unfortunately, Mike and I are off to Sun 'n Fun and Fiona is dealing with the mess of back log messages and orders. It appears our simple upgrade to bring our 21st Century on line order, accounting, parts supply, tracking and secure payment software is having a glitch. (Kind of obvious-No?) The IT folks (yes we have an IT department) are scrambling to get it moving. We are all embarrassed it was not caught sooner. Ah Progress, Bud Yerly US Europa Dealer ----- Original Message ----- From: William McClellan To: Europa-List@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 2:28 PM Subject: Europa-List: Mod 67 and Factory > I am wanting to do Mod 67, cockpit width increase, but haven't been able to get any response back from the factory. Anyone know what is going on with the factory not responding? Really the only parts I need are the moldings, F35P, F35S, F36P and F36S, and I could complete the mod. I have already done the alteration to the door shoot bolt push arm. Thanks, Bill McClellan http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Electronic Mind Needed From: JEFF ROBERTS Guys, Just to keep you up to speed as to where were I'm at. Tonight before it got too dark I managed to check the following with the engine at 2200 rpm's. At first after charging Battery, the voltage check direct on the terminals was 12.5. The GG alternator inputs on the regulator we're 15.7 AC so I'm assuming the engine is producing correct voltage. I checked the +B out of the regulator and it read only .55 volts DC. Moved the engine up to 3000 RPM's and the +G only went to .55 volts. One of you said that should be 13.5 which is what I thought to charge the battery. Keep in mind my regulator is brand new. Just put it on because I thought the old one caused the problem. Turned all lights on and everything on the direct reading on the battery went to 11.8 volts DC. After about 7 to 10 min. that went to 11.5 I can only feel at this point the new regulator is bad and that the main loose ground I had found last week may have caused me to believe the old one was bad. What are my chances of buying a new regulator thats bad? Is there any other reason anyone can think of that may cause the +B regulator output to be only putting out a half of volt? Your inputs are very welcome! Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush. Should have taking that shop course on electronics 40 years back. On Apr 8, 2010, at 5:12 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote: > > > > >> ... >> What is the battery voltage when the engine is running? >> You can also disconnect the regulator from the battery, BUT KEEP THE > CAPACITOR CONNECTED TO THE REGULATOR! and run the engine (preferably > with > all avionics switched off) and measure the voltage across the > capacitor. >> Voltage for the standard Rotax regulator should be appr. 13.7 Volts. >> Let me know how this works out so we have a starting point. > >> Frans > > Jeff, > > These are good points from Frans. Just an additional comment. IF > this is a > shunt regulator (I think it is), it regulates by shorting out the > alternator > phase(s) to ground, once the voltage starts to go higher than its > internal > setpoint (lets say somewhere around....14-15 volts or so, at the > regulator). > If there is no load to the alternator such as accessories and a > battery, the > regulator has to soak up ALL of the excess power from the > alternator. At > high engine speeds, this can become very significant. Without > cooling, it > can be very hard on the regulator. I suggest that if you test (yes, > DEFINITELY with the capacitor) without the battery hooked up, try > not to run > the engine too high in rpm for too long so as not to risk damaging the > regulator. IMHO, test with battery in circuit if possible, unless the > battery itself is suspected. A charge voltage between 13 and 14 > Volts I > consider good, and 13.8 ideal. Anything over 12.7 is charging the > battery > (for lead acid technology). > > Your battery tested at 12.5. That means its about 84% charged, > assuming it > is newer and in good shape (or the reading would be higher), does > not have > any significant load connected to it, or charged within a half day > or so of > the reading (voltage reading will be high after a charge, but slowly > drop to > its normal value). If it had measured 12.7V, it would be fully > charged. > 11.94V would have signified about 10% charge. No-load checks are not > the > best way to check a battery and these values only work for lead- > acid, but it > gives an idea of its charge status. This paragraph is just a bit of an > aside, but might help if wondering about charge state of the battery > or > battery diagnostic. If only one cell is bad in the battery (for > example, > shorted plates), the battery would read low by about 2.1V. Assuming > a fully > charged, it would be below 10.6V for the voltage reading. If it has a > cracked post, its value won't seem to make sense every time you > measure it > ...charging....loaded....just sitting there... and it will drive you > (I mean > me) crazy. Good Luck! > > Regards, > Greg > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.