Europa-List Digest Archive

Sat 04/17/10


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:30 AM - Re: Weight reduction - Brake Discs (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     2. 09:54 AM - 914 Fuel Flow (h&jeuropa)
     3. 09:55 AM - Re: 1 1/4" gauges (ploucandco)
     4. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: 1 1/4" gauges (Raimo Toivio)
     5. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: 2-blade props (Raimo Toivio)
     6. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: 1 1/4" gauges (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
     7. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: 2-blade props (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
     8. 01:29 PM - Re: 914 Fuel Flow (david miller)
     9. 02:10 PM - Re: 914 Fuel Flow (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
    10. 02:34 PM - Re: 914 Fuel Flow (Jim Brown)
    11. 02:35 PM - Re: 914 Fuel Flow (Matthew Carpenter)
    12. 03:02 PM - Any Suggestions on a A&P PRep Course? (Jeffrey J Paris)
    13. 04:25 PM - Re: 914 Fuel Flow (Paul McAllister)
    14. 05:51 PM - Redundant Steam Driven for Engine Monitoring System (Tony Renshaw)
    15. 05:54 PM - Redundant Flight Instruments (Tony Renshaw)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:30:39 AM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Weight reduction - Brake Discs
    =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0A--> Europa-List messag e posted by: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>=0A=0A> More vibration g ives more disruption to laminar=0A> flow so more drag.=0AWell, I can't foll ow this one. Can you explain why? =0A=0ABecause the aircraft is vibrating i n yaw, the flow over the whole airframe is affected. Think if one wing is g oing forward and the other backwards. Only a few thou admittedly but enough to affect drag I think.=0A=0A=0A> This is also why 2 blade windmills are m ore likely to throw blades.=0A=0ANot because of a less efficient airflow, b ut because vibrations can=0Aweaken the attachment of the blades.=0A=0AYes, because as you say the pulses are in opposite phase.=0A=0AGraham


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:54:28 AM PST US
    Subject: 914 Fuel Flow
    From: "h&amp;jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net>
    Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: 914 Fuel Flow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are finally starting to fly cross country and use cruise power settings. We have a 914 with intercooler and Airmaster constant speed prop in our Europa. When using 75% power per section 10.1.1.1 (5000 rpm 31 in Hg) we see fuel flow of 7.5 gph. Our EGTs are about 1450. The spark plugs have a nice tan color to them. The fuel consumption graph (fig. 11) suggests fuel flow should be about 5.5 gph. If we throttle back to 5000 rpm, 29 in Hg, fuel flow drops to 6 gph. Not sure where this setting puts us on the consumption graph! What fuel flow do others see? What power settings do others use? Is our mixture too rich and is that adjusted by changing the position of the needles in the carbs? Dean at Lockwood said don't change anything, mostly because the plug colors are correct. Thanks Jim & Heather N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294546#294546


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:55:32 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 1 1/4" gauges
    From: "ploucandco" <ploucandco@YAHOO.COM>
    Hi Tony, Just a picture of my panel with plenty of 1 1/4 gages. Very readable. The most important is to get the colors right! Jacques. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294547#294547 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_0108_714.jpg


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:11:20 AM PST US
    From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Subject: Re: 1 1/4" gauges
    Jacques, your panel is very atractive in my mind, congratulations. What is behind the nice yellow leverguard over the Hobbs-meter (cannot be BRS-launcher I assume...)? Raimo OH-XRT ----- Original Message ----- From: "ploucandco" <ploucandco@YAHOO.COM> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 7:55 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: 1 1/4" gauges > > Hi Tony, > > Just a picture of my panel with plenty of 1 1/4 gages. Very readable. > The most important is to get the colors right! > > Jacques. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294547#294547 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_0108_714.jpg > > > > > > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:45:21 AM PST US
    From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Subject: Re: 2-blade props
    Frans, you are absolutely right: More > blades is a compromise. Just one is best = most efficient. They (Germans) have done that, with a counterbalance of course. More blades compromise an efficiensy because of ground clearance, noise, tip speed, how it look and so,. Raimo OH-XRT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frans Veldman" <frans@privatepilots.nl> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: 2-blade props > > On 04/16/2010 01:41 PM, Gilles Thesee wrote: > > > Apart from what Karl said, the number of blades has something to do with > > the prop *solidity* necessary to transfer power. The aircraft you cite > > have powerful engines, hence the tendancy to increase the number of blades. > > Right. If you increase the amount of power, at some point you have to > increase the diameter of the prop. If you can't do this (for clearance > reasons), you will have to revert to adding some more blades. More > blades is a compromise. > > > Our airplane and two-blade prop were designed just a few years ago, and > > they are quite efficient aerdynamically. > > I can't think of ANY reason why more blades would be more efficient. I > can however think of reasons why less blades is more efficient. > > Frans > > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:46:24 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 1 1/4" gauges
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Hi Jacques I too have colored UMA gauges including two EGTs, havn't flow yet but sitting in cockpit seem fine to read. Curiosity question, you are spinning engine up to 5000RPM, voltage is not too bad but why are you discharging ~7 amps? Ron Parigoris


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:54:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 2-blade props
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Hi Raimo "More blades is a compromise. Just one is best most efficient. They (Germans) have done that, with a counterbalance of course." I made a 1 bladed prop for a hot Cox 020 model motor. Worked for hours and hours trying to get it to bereasonably balanced with a die grinder spinning it up. Not too much joy when approaching the 20K plus RPMs the engine is capaible of. Less RPMs not too bad, butI think the differential thrust caused harmonics thatI was unableto get rid of. Ron Parigoris


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:29:44 PM PST US
    From: david miller <loboloda@execulink.com>
    Subject: Re: 914 Fuel Flow
    Hi Jim & Heather, Seems more likely to be a problem with the fuel flow gauge. When you fill up after a flight is the amount of fuel used consistent with that shown by the meter ? For what its worth my 912S seems to average 16-18 litres per hour at 5,000 RPM, this is consistent with the reading on my cruzpro fuel gauge. Regards, Dave On 17-Apr-10, at 12:53 PM, h&amp;jeuropa wrote: > > Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: 914 Fuel Flow > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > We are finally starting to fly cross country and use cruise power > settings. We have a 914 with intercooler and Airmaster constant > speed prop in our Europa. When using 75% power per section 10.1.1.1 > (5000 rpm 31 in Hg) we see fuel flow of 7.5 gph. Our EGTs are about > 1450. The spark plugs have a nice tan color to them. The fuel > consumption graph (fig. 11) suggests fuel flow should be about 5.5 > gph. > > If we throttle back to 5000 rpm, 29 in Hg, fuel flow drops to 6 > gph. Not sure where this setting puts us on the consumption graph! > > What fuel flow do others see? What power settings do others use? > > Is our mixture too rich and is that adjusted by changing the > position of the needles in the carbs? Dean at Lockwood said don't > change anything, mostly because the plug colors are correct. > > Thanks > > Jim & Heather > N241BW > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294546#294546 > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:10:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 914 Fuel Flow
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Hi Jim & Heather As mentioned verify gauge speaks truth. As far as reading spark plugs, it is far less accurate than measuring exhaust. That said mogas with no lead is even less accurate than with leaded 100LL. That said to best read spark plugs you need to use 100LL and cruise for a while, then get the motor stopped as soon as you can to read. Pulling power and running at different throttle setting, lower power setting and lower RPMs will change reading. Bing, Eastwood and others sell a carbon monoxide detectoror that would allow you check actual mixture. Depending on your serial number of 914 rotax either has a check they want you to make of carbon monoxide above 100%, or on any engine if you alter intake, like installing an intercooler they want it tested on all serial numbers. http://www.gunson.co.uk/item.aspx?item=1835+ You can measure 1 cylinder at a time, run hose from EGT hole with a loop going to a low point where you can put a hole to allow water to drain then run into cockpit where you have instrument. Best verify 80% 100% and above 100% is rich enough, then you can make sure that at 75% cruise and less you are not excessive rich. I have mixture ratio numbers I will target at hangar if you or anyone else is interested.: Quick ratio chart here: http://www.gunson.co.uk/items/pdf/Products/G4125_Instructions.pdf Ron Parigoris


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:34:48 PM PST US
    From: Jim Brown <acrojim7534@YAHOO.COM>
    Subject: Re: 914 Fuel Flow
    Jim=0A=0AI thank the fuel flow sender is not calibrated correctly... I run 5300 and 33 inches with fuel burn 5.5 GPH I have never seen a fuel burn 7.5 GPH on my engine..=0A=0AFill tank to filler neck, go fly one hour and refi l tank. Use 5000 and 31 inches... you should then know actual fuel burn.. - The EGT's you are showing are about right for that RPM and MP=0A=0AJim =0AN398JB=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "h&amp;jeu ropa" <butcher43@att.net>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sat, Apri l 17, 2010 12:53:30 PM=0ASubject: Europa-List: 914 Fuel Flow=0A=0A--> Europ a-List message posted by: "h&amp;jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net>=0A=0APosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:52 am- - Post subject: 914 Fuel Flow- - =0A=0A-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---=0A=0AWe are finally starting to fly cross country and use cruise power settings. We have a 914 with intercooler and Airmaster constant speed prop in our Europa. When using 75% power per section 10.1.1.1 (5000 rpm 31 in Hg ) we see fuel flow of 7.5 gph. Our EGTs are about 1450. The spark plugs hav e a nice tan color to them. The fuel consumption graph (fig. 11) suggests f uel flow should be about 5.5 gph. =0A=0AIf we throttle back to 5000 rpm, 29 in Hg, fuel flow drops to 6 gph. Not sure where this setting puts us on th e consumption graph! =0A=0AWhat fuel flow do others see? What power setting s do others use? =0A=0AIs our mixture too rich and is that adjusted by chan ging the position of the needles in the carbs? Dean at Lockwood said don't change anything, mostly because the plug colors are correct. =0A=0AThanks =0A=0AJim & Heather=0AN241BW=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294546#294546=0A=0A=0A=0A ==================0A=0A=0A


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:35:12 PM PST US
    From: "Matthew Carpenter" <europaxs@gmail.com>
    Subject: 914 Fuel Flow
    Hi, We have a 914 with Airmaster prop, but no intercooler. At 75% power 5000rpm and 31 in Hg, we get 5.6 GPH mogas burn. We call it 6.0 just to be on the safe side. Our spark plugs are normally a little carbon black on the front and tan on the back ones. 7.5 gph seems excessive and would think it's the flow meter not reporting correctly. Matt Carpenter N138WJ -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of h&amp;jeuropa Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 11:53 AM Subject: Europa-List: 914 Fuel Flow Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: 914 Fuel Flow ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- We are finally starting to fly cross country and use cruise power settings. We have a 914 with intercooler and Airmaster constant speed prop in our Europa. When using 75% power per section 10.1.1.1 (5000 rpm 31 in Hg) we see fuel flow of 7.5 gph. Our EGTs are about 1450. The spark plugs have a nice tan color to them. The fuel consumption graph (fig. 11) suggests fuel flow should be about 5.5 gph. If we throttle back to 5000 rpm, 29 in Hg, fuel flow drops to 6 gph. Not sure where this setting puts us on the consumption graph! What fuel flow do others see? What power settings do others use? Is our mixture too rich and is that adjusted by changing the position of the needles in the carbs? Dean at Lockwood said don't change anything, mostly because the plug colors are correct. Thanks Jim & Heather N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294546#294546


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:02:32 PM PST US
    From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
    Subject: Any Suggestions on a A&P PRep Course?
    Hello Listers,In the process of building two amateur built experimentals, wh ich are a Zenith Zodiac CH601XL and currently finishing up a Europa Monowhee l Classic =C2-I have accrued enough hours to convince my local FSDO to sig n off on taking the Airframe and Powerplant exams. =C2-Does anyone out in internet airplane building land know of or can vouch for a quality A&P prepa ration course to satisfy all 3 parts of the FAA A&P requirements i.e., writt en, oral and practical tests? =C2-Prefereably somewhere close to Rochester , NY if possible?Thanks for your time and consideration.Jeff Paris


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:25:27 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 914 Fuel Flow
    From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
    Hi All, I recorded some data about 5 years ago with my laptop connected to the Grand Rapids EIS. The data points I am very confident with are: 28" 5.51 30" 6.22 31" 6.5 I also recorded data for 1 ~ 2 minutes for: 24" 2.81 25" 3.24 34" 7.95 The raw data is a sample every second and the standard deviation for these data points was low, so its probably good data as well. I seem to recall that is was MoGas and my fuel flow sensor calibration is very accurate. Hope this helps, Paul


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:51:17 PM PST US
    From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@optusnet.com.au>
    Subject: Redundant Steam Driven for Engine Monitoring System
    Gidday, I am going to be using some automated Engine Information System such as the EIS 4000 on my newly acquired 914. I want a few steam driven instruments as well, and already have the UMA Tacho, and the Manifold Pressure Gauge in 2 1/4". I want to purchase a UMA Airbox Differential Pressure Gauge, and will probably go with the same presentation for consistency, the 2 1/4", but was wondering if there are other gauges others believe are good Redundancy solutions, for engine monitoring. Is these 3 enough? These 3 will be on a different buss to the EIS. Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:54:11 PM PST US
    From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@optusnet.com.au>
    Subject: Redundant Flight Instruments
    Gidday again, Sorry to steal too many electrons, but I have another query regarding flight instrument redundancy. For standard a/c certification I believe I need an airspeed indicator, altimeter, and compass. Anyone see any problem in an electric ADI that displays current track acting as the compass: http://www.trutrakap.com/documents/ADIInstallandUserguide.pdf and a MGL Infinity combined electric digital altimeter combining a VSI function also satisfying the altimeter side of things?? http://www.mglavionics.com/html/infinity_singles.html Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie




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