---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/26/10: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:52 AM - Re: epoxy to firewall bond (Frans Veldman) 2. 02:02 AM - Re: PH-DIY first flight! (Frans Veldman) 3. 02:33 AM - Re: PH-DIY first flight! (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 4. 04:36 AM - Pilot logbook () 5. 12:05 PM - Re: epoxy to firewall bond (david miller) 6. 12:45 PM - Europa Monowheel Brake Problem? (Jeffrey J Paris) 7. 06:20 PM - Re: epoxy to firewall bond (rparigoris) 8. 10:40 PM - Re: Re: epoxy to firewall bond (Frans Veldman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:23 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: epoxy to firewall bond On 04/25/2010 11:04 PM, William McClellan wrote: > I have run into an alarming situation. I find epoxy BID applied to > the firewall material does not have great bonding characteristics. Well, the description and picture are identical to what I experienced with the strenghtening and flap drive bonding of one of my wings. In that whole area all epoxy work just snapped loose if I pried with a screwdriver. Disturbing was, that after a second attempt (even more sanding, cleaning, double checking proper mixture, temperatures, etc.) I got into the same situation again. For some reason it was impossible to get a proper bond in that area. General consensus was that there must have been some release agent residu from the factory left behind, or silicone contamination from whatever source (maybe a factory employee wiped off some spoiled coffee with a contaminated rag?) So, in the thirt attempt, I not only used acetone, but also soap, gas, alcohol, vinegar, and a dozen other solvents, to get this invisible and unknown "release agent" off. One of these solvents must have worked, because after that the bond was finally OK. I just keep wondering how many others must be flying around with a similar local contamination and never found out about it because everything just looked right. Because of this experience I have subjected all my bonds to the "screwdriver" test. You should pry until you get some fibers off as a proof that the bond is ok. If you instead hear a "snapping sound" and the whole layup changes color, you have the dreaded "contamination error". And yes, my firewall bonds survived the "screwdriver" test. There were no other problem area's, only this specific area of one of my wings had this "impossible to bond" problem. Frans ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:46 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: PH-DIY first flight! On 04/26/2010 12:38 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: > Frans > a Gurney flap is a neater alternative to a trim tab. I had to look up what this is. What I found is that it is similar to a regular tab, but then with the "tab" sticking out at a 90 degree angle? What is the advantage of this? > A short length of > draft excluder stuck on one side of the trailing edge will work just as > well as an ugly tab. Just like the elevator trim tab but one side only. But this is called a Flettner strip, is that right? That could indeed work as well. Apart from the ugliness factor, which solution produces the least amount of drag? Frans ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:27 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: PH-DIY first flight! The tailplane has a Flettner strip, this is there to cut through the bounda ry layer and break out of the "dead band" inside the BL. A Gurney flap is l ike half a Flettner strip, one side only so it has a bias. People use it fo r aileron trim, attaching the flap underneath makes it more discrete and th is is the advantage. Not obvious and a bit ugly=0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0AFrom: Frans Veldman =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, 26 April, 2010 10:0 0:28=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: PH-DIY first flight!=0A=0A--> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman =0A=0AOn 04/26/201 0 12:38 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:=0A> Frans=0A> a Gurney flap is a neater alternative to a trim tab.=0A=0AI had to look up what this is. What I foun d is that it is similar to a=0Aregular tab, but then with the "tab" stickin g out at a 90 degree angle?=0AWhat is the advantage of this?=0A=0A> A short length of=0A> draft excluder stuck on one side of the trailing edge will w ork just as=0A> well as an ugly tab. Just like the elevator trim tab but on e side only.=0A=0ABut this is called a Flettner strip, is that right?=0A=0A That could indeed work as well.=0A=0AApart from the ugliness factor, which -======================== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:47 AM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: Pilot logbook Guys, I was looking for a convenient online way of storing the logbook and came across www.crewlogbook.com. There are various analysis tools and the ability to import/export from Excel and other formats. And it is free! Support seems very good as well. If anyone tries it there is a Europa in the system (Europa XS tri-gear). Regards John W G-IPOD #573 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:13 PM PST US From: david miller Subject: Re: Europa-List: epoxy to firewall bond A quick spray of water will indicate if there is contamination. If the water beads there is a problem. Having had a similar experience, I tried many things, water based prep washes from auto body shops work well as do Comet/Ajax type kitchen cleaners, these foam and scrub and do a great job . Dave C-FBZI On 26-Apr-10, at 4:48 AM, Frans Veldman wrote: > > > On 04/25/2010 11:04 PM, William McClellan wrote: >> I have run into an alarming situation. I find epoxy BID applied to >> the firewall material does not have great bonding characteristics. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:37 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey J Paris" Subject: Europa-List: Europa Monowheel Brake Problem? Hey Bud,Today we attempted to add brake fluid to our Mono-wheel Classic Kit# A012, which was purchased and delivered to the original owner back in '95 o r '96.=C2- With that in mind, we seem to be encountering some problems wit h the set-up:=C2- Here is what we did:1) Per the=C2- instructions we pum ped DOT 3 Brake fluid from the lower caliper bleed screw into the system unt il we had fluid come up to the top screw and reservoir housing.2) During thi s time we cycled the landing gear through to dislodge any trapped air bubble s and then tightened the bleed screw=C2- and the top screw down to seal th e system.Problems and what we noticed:A) When we tried to spin the wheel and pull the brake handle, the brake handle just moves back and forth without a ny resistance and we fail to get any caliper movement or braking action, nad a, zip!B) We also noticed what seems to be a very, very small leak coming ou t of the hole in the bleed screw.=C2- I useda NAPA brand=C2- paste to se al the threads.What I'm doing now:I'm going to leave everything as is for th e night with the hope that the brake fluid will soak in and saturate all the seals and inner workings of the brake system with the hope that we get some kind of result-good, bad or indifferent.Has anyone else had any of these is sues with there system?=C2- My main concern is that we have a kit that is 15 years old and maybe all the seals are old and dried out in the housings a nd therefore are the reason we are getting failed results.=C2- If you have any insight or ideas on how to remedy the situation we are all ears.=C2- I'm so close to finishing up the airplane and it seems like all I am=C2- d oing is de-bugging, re-rigging, re-thinking everything that we have done so far in building the kit.=C2- Moreover, my other concern lies in the fact t hat the caliper housing has=C2- "Europa" cast in the part and probably are not even equipment that is used today!Sincerely,Jeff and Peter Paris=C2- Europa Classic Monowheel Kit#A012 Jabiru 3300 powered 2825 hours total build to dateAlso builders and flyers of a Zenith Zodiac CH601XL which is grounde d pending the FAA SAIB and will get attention once the Europa is done and ou t of the shop. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:04 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: epoxy to firewall bond From: "rparigoris" Hi Frans "the strenghtening and flap drive bonding of one of my wings." Where exactly is flap drive bonding? On root of flap where you drill into aluminium for drive pin? Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295808#295808 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:46 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: epoxy to firewall bond On 04/27/2010 03:18 AM, rparigoris wrote: > > Hi Frans > "the strenghtening and flap drive bonding of one of my wings." > > Where exactly is flap drive bonding? On root of flap where you drill into aluminium for drive pin? I meant the flap attachment plates. The middle one and the inner one of the outer pair. That area was contaminated, and also the aileron closeouts of that wing wouldn't bond. 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