Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:35 AM - Re: Cooling issues, once again! (Mike Parkin)
2. 01:09 AM - Re: Europa - Battery cable sizing (Tony Renshaw)
3. 02:07 AM - Re: Re: Europa - Battery cable sizing (Tony Renshaw)
4. 02:13 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 914 Intercooler (Frans Veldman)
5. 04:25 AM - Re: Europa - Battery cable sizing (Brian Davies)
6. 07:34 AM - Re: Europa - Battery cable sizing (rparigoris)
7. 11:57 AM - Re: Combustion air inlets (Gary Leinberger)
8. 12:55 PM - Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness (William Daniell)
9. 01:42 PM - Re: Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness (Jerry Rehn)
10. 02:54 PM - Re: Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness (Jim Brown)
11. 03:56 PM - Re: Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
12. 04:29 PM - Re: Combustion air inlets (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
13. 05:24 PM - Re: Combustion air inlets (craig bastin)
14. 06:38 PM - Underseat Fuel System (Tony Renshaw)
15. 06:45 PM - Re: Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness (William Daniell)
16. 08:59 PM - Looking for Europa experienced builder/pilot to check out Europa Monowheel (near Savannah GA - USA) (Luc Michaud)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Cooling issues, once again! |
Frans,
>>For the oil radiator I will take a
>>smaller one (everyone reports too much oil cooling once the oil cooler
>>is lowered and it is no longer fed with hot air), fit it somewhere else
>>in the cowling, and connect it with a scat tube to a dedicated air inlet.
Please take care here. On my installation it is not just the oil that runs
cool, the whole engine runs cooler than desired in the cruise. When people
are reporting that the oil is too cold, I think many have lower CHT/Coolant
temperatures as well. With the original tandem cooler arrangement I found
that the temperature indications were virtually identical at all times.
With the oil cooler lowered the oil temp does lag the water/CHT temps but
once stabilised, water and oil read much the same. I have oil, water and
CHT gauges.
Regards,
Mike
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Europa - Battery cable sizing |
Gidday,
Do I need the same gauge of AWG wire back to my battery from my negative terminal
bus??
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Aussie
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Europa - Battery cable sizing |
Gidday Ron,
I see you have your battery in the back. Great. I will too, but how far back I'm
not sure. I intend on placing it underneath the rear luggage area, on a suspended
shelf. I did consider putting it further aft, and in fact I have built a
fuselage mounted stowage just forward of the aft tail bulkhead, but I reckon
if I had a big crash it might end up in the back of my head! So, I reckon if I
put it behind the cockpit module, it has a long way to go to get to the back
of my head, or the poor unfortunate that I crash with. I wouldn't normally tell
this story but I did take a girl that I was newly dating in Papua New Guinea
for her first flight in a light aircraft when I was hit by windshear landing
on a 300 metre strip, with 14 degrees of slope, and we crashed. So, it can happen,
and I know first hand.
Could you please tell me about your battery location, and maybe you could give
me your opinion of my plan, to put it under the luggage shelf, to track the positive
to a kill switch on the back of the passenger headrest, and then up to
my positive bus bar. Thanks.
R
TR
On 07/06/2010, at 8:30 AM, rparigoris wrote:
>
> Just a quick note on CCA, I too have an aft mounted battery on 914 mono and am
using #4 CCA, the dameter of #4 CCA is closer to #2 Tefzel standard copper wire
than #4 Tefzel wire but the resistance is almost identical to #4 tefzel.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300261#300261
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Intercooler |
On 06/07/2010 12:12 AM, rparigoris wrote:
> Hi Frans. I did speak to John Hurst and he said he measured airbox
> temp and especial at altitude it dropped with intercooler.
I don't know how hey measured it. It is hard to make a valid comparison,
unless you have fitted a valve and can close off the supply of cooling
air flowing through the rad.
After I couldn't measure any temperature difference, I fitted such a
valve... And found out that the intercooler has no measurable effect.
Tested with 115% power, and at 10.000 feet...
My findings are supported by the following theories:
1) Naca ducts are bad in providing ram air. They merely "allow air to
get in".
2) The intercooler is in a 90 degree angle towards the supposed stream
of air getting in via the naca duct. Now, turn your water radiator 90
degrees into the airstream. Let the air first slam the wall, and then
find its way upwards to the radiator. I guess you wouldn't be surprised
to find out that the cooling rad almost stops working.
3) Is the cowling a high or a low pressure area? Where does the
intercooler exit its air into?
4) Radiators that work correctly collect contamination (dust, bugs) over
a while. I can find plenty of these in my water radiator, but have found
none in the intercooler. Has anyone find such contaminations in his
intercooler? I asked before but so far everyone keeps silent about this
(which may be an indication that some people are just starting to
reluctantly wondering whether their setup is effective at all)...
5) Intercoolers don't need "just some air" to work properly, they need
loads of air, due to reason that they need to cool something with a very
small temperature difference.
Frans.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Europa - Battery cable sizing |
Yes.
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
Sent: 07 June 2010 09:10
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa - Battery cable sizing
--> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
Gidday,
Do I need the same gauge of AWG wire back to my battery from my negative
terminal bus??
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Aussie
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Europa - Battery cable sizing |
Hi Tony
"Could you please tell me about your battery location, and maybe you could give
me your opinion of my plan"
My Odyssey 545 is mounted aft of baggage bay ribs, pretty stuck to fuse. I have
a mono XS with 914, intercooler, Airmaster and SD20S alternator on vacuum pad,
thus XS in this config tending to be nose heavy. It is accessible through d-opening
without too much effort. Had problems with strobe noise from my Kunzleman
strobes getting into AAE nav/com antenna on port side of fuse even with strobe
PS on wingtips, battery influences antenna location.
As far as your plan, I don't know how aft you need CG. If you mount where you say,
you could always add some lead to sternpost if needed. Many prefer to keep
battery on firewall footwells and add lead aft if needed. I did calculation and
with CCA will save weight over footwell mounting (just a little it is in links
below I think). It also makes sense since I wanted battery switch and other
electrics in headrest.
Links and details:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=30502
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=30683
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=30710
If you want read about strobe problems that battery influences:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=31409
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300334#300334
Message 7
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| Subject: | Combustion air inlets |
My understanding is that the Bing carbs on the 912S are not designed for ram air
- on my Europa I am using the 914 FWD kit on a 912S (I originally planned on
a 914 but the price differences of recent years seems excessive). This has the
advantage of not taking in water during rain or when on the tarmac. The air
box around the NACA inlet is sealed mainly so that only cool air enters the carbs
- but the air filter box is vented to the carbs so that there is no excess
pressure in the air going to the carbs. The 914 is boosted, but requires numerous
other gadgets to allow the Bing carbs to function properly with the excessive
pressure.
Gary Leinberger
A237
Lancaster, Pa.
95% done, 95% to go.
________________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Fred Klein [fklein@orcasonline.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:41 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Combustion air inlets
On Jun 6, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Frans Veldman wrote:
While solving my cooling problems, I learned a few things:
1) Naca ducts provide no ram air, but merely "allow air to get in".
To all you 912S powered flyers,
Page 8-1 of the Europa "912 Rotax installation manual" states:
The engine inlet air is fed through a NACA duct situated in the top cowling. It
passes into a plenum
chamber which feeds the air directly to the carburettors. This ensures that the
coolest air available is
used at all times, thus ensuring no reduction of engine performance.
If Frans is correct, it would appear to follow that the 912S plenum does not offer
inlet air to the carbs under ram air pressure.
And since the 914 engine inlet is a NACA vent also, the same would apply.
I'm surprised...having thought that engine performance benefits when the carb gulps
air which is above ambient pressure.
Any wisdom to pass on to a heretic?
Fred
A194 (w/ Sube)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness |
Dear all
Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the Europa supplied harness - the
one where the leads are Marked M1 M2 etc E1, A1 A2 etc.? I bought the
harness with the kit in 2002.
If anyone does it would save a huge amount of puzzling if you could scan
and email it to me.
thanks in advance
Will
>
> .
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness |
Will
I have it and its 13 pages long including photos on where to mount various
things and where to dill holes etc. Do you want it all?
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness
Dear all
Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the Europa supplied harness - the
one where the leads are Marked M1 M2 etc E1, A1 A2 etc.? I bought the
harness with the kit in 2002.
If anyone does it would save a huge amount of puzzling if you could scan
and email it to me.
thanks in advance
Will
>
> .
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness |
Will, I thank I have a wiring diagram for the supplied wiring harness by Eu
ropa...I will be in the hanger tomorrow and will look thru my old papers..
=0A=0AJim Brown=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom
: William Daniell <wdaniell@etb.net.co>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" <
europa-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Mon, June 7, 2010 3:31:32 PM=0ASubject:
Europa-List: Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness=0A=0A--> Europa-Lis
t message posted by: William Daniell <wdaniell@etb.net.co>=0A=0ADear all=0A
=0ADoes anyone have a wiring diagram for the Europa supplied harness - the
one where the leads are Marked M1 M2 etc E1, A1 A2 etc.?- I bought the ha
rness with the kit in 2002.=0A=0AIf anyone does it would save a huge amount
of puzzling if you could scan and email it to me.=0A=0Athanks in advance
=========================0A
===0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness |
Hi Will
"Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the Europa
supplied harness" I recently posted information I had on supplied
harness. see bottom rightof page:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=30472
Ron Parigoris
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Combustion air inlets |
Don't think it matters Ram or not Ram, what's important is that the float c
hamber sees the same pressure as the inlet throat. It is important the the
airflow is same velocity across the diameter. Variation will upset the mixt
ure and smooth elbows into the carb will give varying velocity. Best if the
air goes in straight from the plenum not elbowed.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_
_______________________________=0AFrom: Gary Leinberger <Gary.Leinberger@mi
llersville.edu>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.co
m>=0ASent: Monday, 7 June, 2010 19:56:00=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Combus
ry.Leinberger@millersville.edu>=0A=0AMy understanding is that the Bing carb
s on the 912S are not designed for ram air - on my Europa I am using the 91
4 FWD kit on a 912S (I originally planned on a 914 but the price differenc
es of recent years seems excessive). This has the advantage of not taking i
n water during rain or when on the tarmac. The air box around the NACA inle
t is sealed mainly so that only cool air enters the carbs - but the air fil
ter box is vented to the carbs so that there is no excess pressure in the a
ir going to the carbs. The 914 is boosted, but requires numerous other gadg
ets to allow the Bing carbs to function properly with the excessive pressur
e.=0A=0AGary Leinberger=0AA237=0ALancaster, Pa.=0A=0A95% done, 95% to go.
=0A=0A________________________________________=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-se
rver@matronics.com [owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fr
ed Klein [fklein@orcasonline.com]=0ASent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:41 PM=0AT
o: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Combustion air inlets
=0A=0AOn Jun 6, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Frans Veldman wrote:=0A=0AWhile solving
my cooling problems, I learned a few things:=0A1) Naca ducts provide no ram
air, but merely "allow air to get in".=0A=0ATo all you 912S powered flyers
,=0A=0APage 8-1 of the Europa "912 Rotax installation manual" states:=0A=0A
The engine inlet air is fed through a NACA duct situated in the top cowling
. It passes into a plenum=0Achamber which feeds the air directly to the car
burettors. This ensures that the coolest air available is=0Aused at all tim
es, thus ensuring no reduction of engine performance.=0A=0AIf Frans is corr
ect, it would appear to follow that the 912S plenum does not offer inlet ai
r to the carbs under ram air pressure.=0A=0AAnd since the 914 engine inlet
is a NACA vent also, the same would apply.=0A=0AI'm surprised...having thou
ght that engine performance benefits when the carb gulps air which is above
ambient pressure.=0A=0AAny wisdom to pass on to a heretic?=0A=0AFred=0AA19
====
Message 13
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| Subject: | Combustion air inlets |
The other thing worth consideration, is the longer (within reason) and
smoother the transition from plenum to carb throat the better
the perfomance, this allows the air to continue accelerating with
minimal turbulence, giving the best possible atomisation of the fuel
into the airflow. Hence the reason for the velocity stacks (trumpets)
seen on a lot of natually aspirated race engine.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:29 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Combustion air inlets
Don't think it matters Ram or not Ram, what's important is that the
float chamber sees the same pressure as the inlet throat. It is
important the the airflow is same velocity across the diameter.
Variation will upset the mixture and smooth elbows into the carb will
give varying velocity. Best if the air goes in straight from the plenum
not elbowed.
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Gary Leinberger <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
To: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, 7 June, 2010 19:56:00
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Combustion air inlets
<Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
My understanding is that the Bing carbs on the 912S are not designed
for ram air - on my Europa I am using the 914 FWD kit on a 912S (I
originally planned on a 914 but the price differences of recent years
seems excessive). This has the advantage of not taking in water during
rain or when on the tarmac. The air box around the NACA inlet is sealed
mainly so that only cool air enters the carbs - but the air filter box
is vented to the carbs so that there is no excess pressure in the air
going to the carbs. The 914 is boosted, but requires numerous other
gadgets to allow the Bing carbs to function properly with the excessive
pressure.
Gary Leinberger
A237
Lancaster, Pa.
95% done, 95% to go.
________________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
[fklein@orcasonline.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:41 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Europa-List: Combustion air inlets
On Jun 6, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Frans Veldman wrote:
While solving my cooling problems, I learned a few things:
1) Naca ducts provide no ram air, but merely "allow air to get in".
To all you 912S powered flyers,
Page 8-1 of the Europa "912 Rotax installation manual" states:
The engine inlet air is fed through a NACA duct situated in the top
cowling. It passes into a plenum
chamber which feeds the air directly to the carburettors. This ensures
that the coolest air available is
used at all times, thus ensuring no reduction of engine performance.
If Frans is correct, it would appear to follow that the 912S plenum
does not offer inlet air to the carbs under ram air pressure.
And since the 914 engine inlet is a NACA vent also, the same would
apply.
I'm surprised...having thought that engine performance benefits when
the carb gulps air which is above ambient pressure.
Any wisdom to pass on to a heretic?
Fred
A194 (w/ ics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/N= - MATRONICS
WEB FORUMS= -->
Message 14
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| Subject: | Underseat Fuel System |
My existing fuel system setup has the fuel exiting the tank outlets via GS fittings,
spanwise for 6-8", then 90 degree bend through back of seat and into underseat
area. My original building mentor, Mal McLure had his entire 914 system
underneath the passenger seat, and my setup was an aberration of that, with a
parallel fuel system originally setup for a 912S, but now I have the 914. So,
my fuel from each respective side of the tank currently goes to underneath the
seat pans. My question is, does anyone have theirs in the same place, or is
everyone putting it aft of the seatback?? If so, I suppose I will reroute it via
its current location, out the inboard side of the underseat area into the tunnel,
then aft from there. I struggle to think going aft, to then come forward
again is the best way to go, but I am open to suggestions. I suppose it is better
to smell fumes and with confidence know they are behind you, than under
you!! Also, you could end up sitting in a very uncomfortable puddle, and I bet
if this occurred you would be that scared you would be contributing to it. By
putting it aft, and I do have a suspended shelf setup between the vertical ribs
that support the extended baggage bay, I could put all the fuel setup into
a plastic container such that all plumbing, or most of the joins etc are encapsulated.
Any ideas welcomed.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Aussie.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram for Europa supplied harness |
Jerry Rehn very kindly scanned the complete instruction in once again
proving the value of the forum and the willingness of the participants
to help.
Thanks again Jerry
Will
Jim Brown wrote:
> Will, I thank I have a wiring diagram for the supplied wiring harness
> by Europa...I will be in the hanger tomorrow and will look thru my old
> papers..
>
> Jim Brown
>
>
> *
> *
Message 16
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| Subject: | Looking for Europa experienced builder/pilot to check out |
Europa Monowheel (near Savannah GA - USA)
Hello I'm looking for an experienced Europa builder/pilot near Savannah GA,
to check out an airworthy (300 hrs TT) Europa Monowheel that I wish to
purchase.
Pls contact me via email at rambug(at)gmail.com
Regards,
Luc
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