Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:57 AM - Re: Combustion air inlets (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
2. 03:42 AM - Re: Looking for Europa experienced builder/pilot to check out Europa Monowheel (near Savannah GA - USA) (Jim Brown)
3. 05:01 AM - Tunnel Bulkhead Substrate (Tony Renshaw)
4. 05:02 AM - Re: Combustion air inlets (Frans Veldman)
5. 05:10 AM - Re: Combustion air inlets (Frans Veldman)
6. 05:24 AM - Re: Re: Cooling issues, once again! (Frans Veldman)
7. 05:38 AM - Re: Combustion air inlets (Peter Zutrauen)
8. 08:00 AM - Re: Cooling issues, once again! (rparigoris)
9. 08:43 AM - Re: Tunnel Bulkhead Substrate (Fred Klein)
10. 09:07 AM - Re: Underseat Fuel System (Robert C Harrison)
11. 09:14 AM - 912S - Flying in rain (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
12. 09:50 AM - Re: 912S - Flying in rain (Kevin Challis)
13. 09:54 AM - Re: 912S - Flying in rain (Karl Heindl)
14. 10:38 AM - SV: 912S - Flying in rain (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
15. 11:34 AM - Re: Tunnel Bulkhead Substrate (G-IANI)
16. 11:40 AM - Re: Tunnel Bulkhead Substrate (Gary Leinberger)
17. 11:53 AM - Re: Underseat Fuel System (duanefamly@aol.com)
18. 12:13 PM - Cooling (Jerry Rehn)
19. 12:55 PM - Re: Underseat Fuel System (Raimo Toivio)
20. 02:46 PM - Re: Underseat Fuel System (Frans Veldman)
21. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: Cooling issues, once again! (Frans Veldman)
22. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: Cooling issues, once again! (Fred Klein)
23. 03:42 PM - Self-Introduction - and looking for *ANY* info on N202Y (built by Jim Stoveken) (Luc Michaud)
24. 04:07 PM - Re: Self-Introduction - and looking for *ANY* info on N202Y (built by Jim Stoveken) (Fred Klein)
25. 07:20 PM - Fuel Head (Tony Renshaw)
26. 07:49 PM - COOLING & NACA DUCTS (Fergus Kyle)
27. 07:58 PM - Battery cable sizing (Fergus Kyle)
28. 10:46 PM - Propeller - Flying in rain (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Combustion air inlets |
Yes, but note that they never go into an elbow, always straight in to the c
arb=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: craig b
astin <craigb@onthenet.com.au>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tues
day, 8 June, 2010 1:29:36=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Combustion air inlets
=0A=0A=EF=BB =0AThe =0Aother thing worth consideration, is the longer (
within reason) and smoother =0Athe transition from plenum to carb throat th
e better=0Athe =0Aperfomance, this allows the air to continue accelerating
with minimal =0Aturbulence, giving the best possible atomisation of the fue
l=0Ainto =0Athe airflow. Hence the reason for the velocity stacks (trumpets
) seen on a lot =0Aof natually aspirated race engine.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for Europa experienced builder/pilot to check |
out Europa Monowheel (near Savannah GA - USA)
I own a monowheel, and I live in central Florida, I may be able to help you
...- Please contact me on my cell 352-250-0712=0A=0AJim Brown=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Luc Michaud <rambug@gmail.com>
=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, June 7, 2010 11:56:34 PM=0ASu
bject: Europa-List: Looking for Europa experienced builder/pilot to check o
ut Europa Monowheel (near Savannah GA - USA)=0A=0AHello I'm looking for an
experienced Europa builder/pilot near Savannah GA, to check out an airworth
y (300 hrs TT) Europa Monowheel that I wish to purchase.=0A=0APls contact m
===============0A=0A=0A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Tunnel Bulkhead Substrate |
Gidday,
I am after advice on stiffening bulkheads in my tunnel, now that I have opened
it up at the top to gain access to finger brake shelf etc. Like all of us, I have
blue foam coming out of my ears, but I've also used ply as a substrate here
and there, and I know about light weight composite substrates like Divinycell.
So, does anyone speak positively about using a specialised foam substrate instead
of blue foam with BID either side, or should I just use ply, or is even
good old blue foam good enough??? I could always add an extra layer of BID for
the weaker the substrate.
I need two of these bulkheads, one going across the tunnel from floor to roof
of tunnel at the level of the vertical face of the thigh support, and a forward
bulkhead just aft of the tunnel firewall. All help gratefully accepted.
Rg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Aussie
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Combustion air inlets |
On 06/08/2010 02:29 AM, craig bastin wrote:
> The other thing worth consideration, is the longer (within reason) and
> smoother the transition from plenum to carb throat the better
> the perfomance, this allows the air to continue accelerating with
> minimal turbulence, giving the best possible atomisation of the fuel
> into the airflow. Hence the reason for the velocity stacks (trumpets)
> seen on a lot of natually aspirated race engine.
Keep in mind that the inlet pulses on a Rotax are not balanced. Each
carb has to feed two successive cylinders, and then pauses for two
successive cylinders. This causes turbulence, uneven mixture over the
two successive inlet cycles, and a lot of other problems. We can't do
much about this (except for fitting a much larger balance tube) so
efforts to smooth the air going into the carbs is probably pretty much
wasted.
Frans
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Combustion air inlets |
On 06/07/2010 08:56 PM, Gary Leinberger wrote:
> My understanding is that the Bing carbs on the 912S are not designed
> for ram air -
They can handle ram air fine. Just make sure that also the float chamber
vent sees the same pressure. (This means that the whole carb will see
the elevated pressure, the higher pressure due to ram air is then no
different than the higher pressure due to flying at a lower altitude.
The Bing carbs are especially designed to deal with a lot of different
inlet pressures.)
> The 914 is boosted, but requires
> numerous other gadgets to allow the Bing carbs to function properly
> with the excessive pressure.
Not true. The carbs are the same. All the "gadgets" you see on a 914 are
for different reasons, not to make the carbs work correctly. And of
course, the float chamber vents are connected to the airbox, so they see
the higher pressure as well.
If I had a 912, I would try to feed the engine with as much ram air as
possible.
Frans
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling issues, once again! |
On 06/06/2010 11:56 PM, rparigoris wrote:
> **Ask any Rotax distributor in the know, they want a 914 to run well
> below edge of redline for longevity. Not too cold, but near the lower
> end is preferable. I think we can agree on this.
I don't necessarily agree with this. There is a practical reason to
limit the temperatures of the cylinder heads: above a certain
temperature the aluminium softens. But you can't reverse this reasoning:
there is no additional benefit to get further away from this redline
than necessary. In fact, a lower temperature worsens the efficiency of
the engine, causes worse fuel atomization, etc.
The same with the oil temperature. The red line is there because above a
certain temperature the oil starts breaking apart. But you shouldn't
stay further away from this red line as neccessary. I think we all know
that colder oil is not working well, that is why we have a lower limit
on the oil temperature after all.
I wouldn't see why running well below the edge would increase the
longevity. The heads melt or they do not.
> **Now here is where I don't agree with you.
You have some points here. It is just that I think that having to rely
on electrical fans is not elegant, and electrical fans can fail. I
prefer to make the best use of the air flow we already have by the
nature of flying, but there is no real wrong or true here.
> I disagree
> that heating cowl air is a good thing.
I didn't say that. I said: "heating up the air before it leaves the
airplane is a good thing".
With other words: you should try to heat the air up on its way to the
exit... but make very sure that it exits indeed and doesn't linger
around in the cowling. With a proper airflow from top to bottom, the
turbo and muffler are the very last things the air will encounter. It
could be beneficial to pick up heat from it as much as possible, to
increase the air volume and have something to offer to the void behind
the cowling or cowl flap. The more volume of air you exit, the less drag
you have... until at some point you even get propulsion from the hot air
exiting the cowling (but true, we aren't likely to achieve this stage
with an Europa).
BTW, thanks for the information you sent!!
Frans
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Combustion air inlets |
re: ram-air to the carbs: I believe there were previous threads discussing
this, and the analysis showed that the ram-air effect is negligible at our
speeds - but the drag penalties could be more significant.
fwiw, ymmv, etc.
Cheers,
Pete
A239
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 8:08 AM, Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>wrote:
>
> On 06/07/2010 08:56 PM, Gary Leinberger wrote:
>
> > My understanding is that the Bing carbs on the 912S are not designed
> > for ram air -
>
> They can handle ram air fine. Just make sure that also the float chamber
> vent sees the same pressure. (This means that the whole carb will see
> the elevated pressure, the higher pressure due to ram air is then no
> different than the higher pressure due to flying at a lower altitude.
> The Bing carbs are especially designed to deal with a lot of different
> inlet pressures.)
>
> > The 914 is boosted, but requires
> > numerous other gadgets to allow the Bing carbs to function properly
> > with the excessive pressure.
>
> Not true. The carbs are the same. All the "gadgets" you see on a 914 are
> for different reasons, not to make the carbs work correctly. And of
> course, the float chamber vents are connected to the airbox, so they see
> the higher pressure as well.
>
> If I had a 912, I would try to feed the engine with as much ram air as
> possible.
>
> Frans
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling issues, once again! |
Hi Frans
I hear where you are coming from, and somewhat agree. In a world where the Mfg.
did their homework and published the proper info, and you had gages that spoke
the truth running near redline is not too too bad a thing.
In real world Rotax found that oils that they blessed, and temps they published
can cause problems. Not only did they change some coolant temps but wanted you
to monitor more info if you use 50/50 mix. Now as far as instruments, an error
on the low side can occur easily. In europa and many cowls, inside temps can
increase to point where regulator, ignition modules, plug wires and other wiring
can and do take an extra beating the hotter they get.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300526#300526
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tunnel Bulkhead Substrate |
On Jun 8, 2010, at 4:59 AM, Tony Renshaw wrote:
> I am after advice on stiffening bulkheads in my tunnel, now that I
> have opened it up at the top to gain access to finger brake shelf
> etc. Like all of us, I have blue foam coming out of my ears, but
> I've also used ply as a substrate here and there, and I know about
> light weight composite substrates like Divinycell. So, does anyone
> speak positively about using a specialised foam substrate instead of
> blue foam with BID either side, or should I just use ply, or is even
> good old blue foam good enough???
Tony,
Personally, I would never use blue foam where thin sheets are called
for, even if I could make a simple jig and sand it down to say 1/8" or
1/4". For what you describe, I would find some LastaFoam...however,
since the amount you're talkin bout is so small, I would think 1/8"
birch acft plywood would serve.
Fred
Message 10
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| Subject: | Underseat Fuel System |
Hi! Tony I guess you are a Mono driver?
If a trike driver though then my 914 set up is in modular form passing
through the belly wheel well where the mono wheel would be parked!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
Sent: 08 June 2010 02:29
Subject: Europa-List: Underseat Fuel System
My existing fuel system setup has the fuel exiting the tank outlets via GS
fittings, spanwise for 6-8", then 90 degree bend through back of seat and
into underseat area. My original building mentor, Mal McLure had his entire
914 system underneath the passenger seat, and my setup was an aberration of
that, with a parallel fuel system originally setup for a 912S, but now I
have the 914. So, my fuel from each respective side of the tank currently
goes to underneath the seat pans. My question is, does anyone have theirs in
the same place, or is everyone putting it aft of the seatback?? If so, I
suppose I will reroute it via its current location, out the inboard side of
the underseat area into the tunnel, then aft from there. I struggle to think
going aft, to then come forward again is the best way to go, but I am open
to suggestions. I suppose it is better to smell fumes and with confidence
know they are behind you, than under you!! Also, you could end up sitting in
a very uncom!
fortable puddle, and I bet if this occurred you would be that scared you
would be contributing to it. By putting it aft, and I do have a suspended
shelf setup between the vertical ribs that support the extended baggage bay,
I could put all the fuel setup into a plastic container such that all
plumbing, or most of the joins etc are encapsulated. Any ideas welcomed.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Aussie.
Message 11
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| Subject: | 912S - Flying in rain |
The current thread on combustion air, ram pressure, where to place the air
intake, etc. brings up the issue of flying in rain with the Europa equipped
with the 912S, having the air intake arranged as a NACA duct on top of the
cowling and the plenum box just below the opening. There are two 3.3 mm
(1/8") drain holes at the bottom of this plenum box, which will be able to
drain away some water intake (you must fly with the ball in dead center for
both to be effective). A certain air pressure build-up in the plenum makes
the drainage more effective.
One theory I have heard goes as follows: If the engine were stopped and
surrounding air passed over the cowling at a speed of say 120 knots, very
little rain would enter the air box. The air would be backed up in the NACA
duct and "new" air and rain drops would for the most part pass over it.
Given this starting scenario (the aircraft moving at a speed of 120 knots):
If you now have a running engine it will still not suck in so much
combustion air that the velocity through the NACA duct is anywhere close to
120 knots + propeller slip stream velocity. Air would therefore still be
backed up in front of the plenum intake, with a certain amount of the air
and rain drops flowing over the inlet.
Theory and reality are two different matters also in this case. What has
been experienced when it comes to flying this configuration in rain
(drizzle, light, heavy) - is it definitely to be avoided or is it more a
matter of vertical and horizontal visibility?
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
Message 12
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| Subject: | 912S - Flying in rain |
Dear All,
I have a tri gear Europa Classic with a XS firewall forward setup and a
912ULS with a NACA on top of the cowling for the carbs. I have flown through
very heavy rain, light rain etc (I am based in the UK) with no problems.
My rads oil & water are one behind the other with quite a gap at the bottom
which lets air bypass the rads. The temps are fine and I have been as far
south as Morocco with it in the summer and very hot conditions.
I don't often say anything on this forum as
1. I don't understand the technical stuff.
2. I am too busy flying it.
Kevin
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein
Johnsen
Sent: 08 June 2010 17:13
Subject: Europa-List: 912S - Flying in rain
The current thread on combustion air, ram pressure, where to place the air
intake, etc. brings up the issue of flying in rain with the Europa equipped
with the 912S, having the air intake arranged as a NACA duct on top of the
cowling and the plenum box just below the opening. There are two 3.3 mm
(1/8") drain holes at the bottom of this plenum box, which will be able to
drain away some water intake (you must fly with the ball in dead center for
both to be effective). A certain air pressure build-up in the plenum makes
the drainage more effective.
One theory I have heard goes as follows: If the engine were stopped and
surrounding air passed over the cowling at a speed of say 120 knots, very
little rain would enter the air box. The air would be backed up in the NACA
duct and "new" air and rain drops would for the most part pass over it.
Given this starting scenario (the aircraft moving at a speed of 120 knots):
If you now have a running engine it will still not suck in so much
combustion air that the velocity through the NACA duct is anywhere close to
120 knots + propeller slip stream velocity. Air would therefore still be
backed up in front of the plenum intake, with a certain amount of the air
and rain drops flowing over the inlet.
Theory and reality are two different matters also in this case. What has
been experienced when it comes to flying this configuration in rain
(drizzle, light, heavy) - is it definitely to be avoided or is it more a
matter of vertical and horizontal visibility?
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
Message 13
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| Subject: | 912S - Flying in rain |
I have flown inthe rain with the standard setup=2C while rturning from Oshk
osh. I didn't notice any problems. But normally I try to avoid it=2C becaus
e it isn't good for the propeller.
Karl
From: sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no
Subject: Europa-List: 912S - Flying in rain
The current thread on combustion air=2C ram pressure=2C where to place the
air intake=2C etc. brings up the issue of flying in rain with the Europa eq
uipped with the 912S=2C having the air intake arranged as a NACA duct on to
p of the cowling and the plenum box just below the opening. There are two
3.3 mm (1/8=94) drain holes at the bottom of this plenum box=2C which will
be able to drain away some water intake (you must fly with the ball in dead
center for both to be effective). A certain air pressure build-up in the
plenum makes the drainage more effective.
One theory I have heard goes as follows: If the engine were stopped and su
rrounding air passed over the cowling at a speed of say 120 knots=2C very l
ittle rain would enter the air box. The air would be backed up in the NACA
duct and =93new=94 air and rain drops would for the most part pass over it
. Given this starting scenario (the aircraft moving at a speed of 120 knot
s): If you now have a running engine it will still not suck in so much com
bustion air that the velocity through the NACA duct is anywhere close to 12
0 knots + propeller slip stream velocity. Air would therefore still be bac
ked up in front of the plenum intake=2C with a certain amount of the air an
d rain drops flowing over the inlet.
Theory and reality are two different matters also in this case. What has b
een experienced when it comes to flying this configuration in rain (drizzle
=2C light=2C heavy) ' is it definitely to be avoided or is it more a matt
er of vertical and horizontal visibility?
Regards=2C
Svein
LN-SKJ
Message 14
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| Subject: | 912S - Flying in rain |
Thanks, Kevin and Karl - very reassuring.
Regards,
Svein
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Tunnel Bulkhead Substrate |
Tony
For the bulkheads I built when doing the major modifications to my tunnel I
used 3mm ply with two plies of BID on both sides.
This gives a nice strong structure and the weight penalty is very small
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Tunnel Bulkhead Substrate |
I was originally going with the (heavier) Subaru engine and was worried abo
ut sufficient strength with a heavier engine. So I used thin plywood glasse
d and bolted on both sides to make the firewall (angled at about 30 degrees
) and tied this to a piece of plywood that runs back to the rear of the coc
kpit module. I glued this to the side, and and glassed it to the firewall s
o it makes a tee with the firewall. Then I used thin angle aluminum to tie
this to thin plywood 9also glassed and reinforced with thin aluminum sheet
on the cockpit sides of the center tunnel. The bolts for the frame that hol
ds the bungies (I actually used springs) goes through the plywood, the thin
aluminum and the cockpit module.
I weighed all this before I put it in and it probably added 8 - 10 pounds o
r so. I haven't weighed the plane yet. I rationalize this added weight in p
art by noting that the center board also serves as a mount for everything
in the center console which is necessary as I have the finger brakes, auto
pilot, all the various brake hoses, gas hoses, throttle, etc. All those mou
nts would weigh something.
Don't know if this was worth the effort but it sure is strong. I did learn
that putting the foam between glass (or thin plywood and glass) increases t
he strength by several magnitudes - but you need to figure in the force vec
tors to get the proper strength.
The cockpit picture shows the plywood on the outside that is bolted to the
bungie and front wheel frame and also bolted and fiberglassed to the tee sh
aped piece inside the tunnel that runs back to the rear of the tunnel. On t
he cockpit picture you can see Bud Yerly in the background, probably silent
ly (or not so silently) cursing builders who add their little "improvements
" that cause interference problems later on -
Gary Leinberger
A237
Lancaster, Pa.
________________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein [fklein@orcasonline.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tunnel Bulkhead Substrate
On Jun 8, 2010, at 4:59 AM, Tony Renshaw wrote:
> I am after advice on stiffening bulkheads in my tunnel, now that I
> have opened it up at the top to gain access to finger brake shelf
> etc. Like all of us, I have blue foam coming out of my ears, but
> I've also used ply as a substrate here and there, and I know about
> light weight composite substrates like Divinycell. So, does anyone
> speak positively about using a specialised foam substrate instead of
> blue foam with BID either side, or should I just use ply, or is even
> good old blue foam good enough???
Tony,
Personally, I would never use blue foam where thin sheets are called
for, even if I could make a simple jig and sand it down to say 1/8" or
1/4". For what you describe, I would find some LastaFoam...however,
since the amount you're talkin bout is so small, I would think 1/8"
birch acft plywood would serve.
Fred
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Underseat Fuel System |
you could end up sitting in a very uncomfortable puddle
I thought of this as a very unconfortable idea also.....so I drilled a sma
ll "weep" hole in the corner of each pan and epoxied in a small brass tube
to the underside of the aircraft. I would prefer to lose this fuel than
land with it.
Mike Duane
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert C Harrison <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 9:06 am
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Underseat Fuel System
o.uk>
Hi! Tony I guess you are a Mono driver?
f a trike driver though then my 914 set up is in modular form passing
hrough the belly wheel well where the mono wheel would be parked!
egards
ob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
rom: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
ent: 08 June 2010 02:29
o: europa-list@matronics.com
ubject: Europa-List: Underseat Fuel System
My existing fuel system setup has the fuel exiting the tank outlets via GS
ittings, spanwise for 6-8", then 90 degree bend through back of seat and
nto underseat area. My original building mentor, Mal McLure had his entire
14 system underneath the passenger seat, and my setup was an aberration of
hat, with a parallel fuel system originally setup for a 912S, but now I
ave the 914. So, my fuel from each respective side of the tank currently
oes to underneath the seat pans. My question is, does anyone have theirs
in
he same place, or is everyone putting it aft of the seatback?? If so, I
uppose I will reroute it via its current location, out the inboard side of
he underseat area into the tunnel, then aft from there. I struggle to thin
k
oing aft, to then come forward again is the best way to go, but I am open
o suggestions. I suppose it is better to smell fumes and with confidence
now they are behind you, than under you!! Also, you could end up sitting
in
very uncom!
fortable puddle, and I bet if this occurred you would be that scared you
ould be contributing to it. By putting it aft, and I do have a suspended
helf setup between the vertical ribs that support the extended baggage bay
,
could put all the fuel setup into a plastic container such that all
lumbing, or most of the joins etc are encapsulated. Any ideas welcomed.
eg
ony Renshaw
ydney Aussie.
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Message 18
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This is a picture of a 914 during a test run by Rotax. I got this at a
maintenance class I took in Canada. Seems they wanted to see just how long
and hot they could run it. Can't recall time but I think it was 24 hours or
more and the engine came out remarkably well.
Nice to know you can run them a little hot and they will survive, can't say
what the rest of the stuff under a cowling might look like!
Jerry
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Underseat Fuel System |
I have drainage holes there also but blocked them by glued pieces of
blue foam.
If some free fuel occurs, it will immediately melt it=B4s way out.
Terveisin, Raimo Toivio
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 +150 hrs
37500 Lemp=E4=E4l=E4
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio@fly.to
www.rwm.fi
From: duanefamly@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Underseat Fuel System
you could end up sitting in a very uncomfortable puddleI thought of this
as a very unconfortable idea also.....so I drilled a small "weep" hole
in the corner of each pan and epoxied in a small brass tube to the
underside of the aircraft. I would prefer to lose this fuel than land
with it.
Mike Duane
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert C Harrison <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 9:06 am
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Underseat Fuel System
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Tony I guess you are a Mono driver?
If a trike driver though then my 914 set up is in modular form passing
through the belly wheel well where the mono wheel would be parked!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Renshaw
Sent: 08 June 2010 02:29
Subject: Europa-List: Underseat Fuel System
<tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
My existing fuel system setup has the fuel exiting the tank outlets via
GS
fittings, spanwise for 6-8", then 90 degree bend through back of seat
and
into underseat area. My original building mentor, Mal McLure had his
entire
914 system underneath the passenger seat, and my setup was an aberration
of
that, with a parallel fuel system originally setup for a 912S, but now I
have the 914. So, my fuel from each respective side of the tank
currently
goes to underneath the seat pans. My question is, does anyone have
theirs in
the same place, or is everyone putting it aft of the seatback?? If so, I
suppose I will reroute it via its current location, out the inboard side
of
the underseat area into the tunnel, then aft from there. I struggle to
think
going aft, to then come forward again is the best way to go, but I am
open
to suggestions. I suppose it is better to smell fumes and with
confidence
know they are behind you, than under you!! Also, you could end up
sitting in
a very uncom!
fortable puddle, and I bet if this occurred you would be that scared
you
would be contributing to it. By putting it aft, and I do have a
suspended
shelf setup between the vertical ribs that support the extended baggage
bay,
I could put all the fuel setup into a plastic container such that all
plumbing, or most of the joins etc are encapsulated. Any ideas welcomed.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Aussie.
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Underseat Fuel System |
On 06/08/2010 09:53 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> I have drainage holes there also but blocked them by glued pieces of
> blue foam.
> If some free fuel occurs, it will immediately melt its way out.
Smart idea!
I put all fuel related stuff (pumps, filters, valves, flow sensors) in a
sealed box, with a hatch to the underside of the plane. From there I can
access the gascolator, and if there develops a leak in the dozen or so
T's and other connections, it will leak out via the hatch. I won't even
have a fuel smell inside the cockpit.
But still, I like your idea to have a few "melt holes" at strategic
places. It seems the tank can leak too! So, now I have found a use for
my scrap blue foam.
Frans
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling issues, once again! |
Hi Guys,
It looks like I might have solved my cooling problems!
What I did:
I took the oil cooler completely out of the duct. The cooling duct now
only supplies air to the water radiator.
The oil cooler is now mounted on the starboard footwell. It is fed with
cold air via an internal simple wedge shaped diffuser, connected to a 2
inch scat-tube that runs to the front of the airplane, to a 2 inch hole.
(2 inch is pretty minimalistic for this huge oil cooler but a 2 inch
scat tube is what I found in my airplane surplus box.) The warm air
exiting the oil cooler is simply dumped inside the cowling (and can
still absorb some more heat there).
I closed off the front round 3" air inlets completely to reduce pressure
inside the cowl. This to further promote air flow through the more
usefull air inlets. (For cylinder cooling I have two small naca inlets
in the top cowling aimed at the cylinders).
I built an exhaust augmenter to suck the warm air out of the cowling.
So, this evening we ground tested the system.
First thing we noticed was that it took an unusual long time to warm up
the oil. Also the water temp was lagging quite a bit.
After the engine was warmed up sufficiently I revved the engine up to
4200 rpm. In previous tests I used this setting to measure the time
until something reached red line (usually water and oil touched the red
line at about the same moment).
Well, this time I couldn't reach any red line with this power setting!
Temperatures just stabilized in the middle of the green zone. Unbelievable.
So, after some time I decided to just give it all. Full power.
It took two minutes before finally the oil reached the caution zone. The
water was still in the green zone at that time.
I let the RPM drop, and the oil temperature came down again.
So, at least the ground cooling problems seem to be over. (Ok, I should
test again with really hot weather, but it looks like that that is not
going to be a problem.) This is with a minimal amount of air stolen from
the front of the airplane: Two naca ducts for cylinder cooling, one 2
inch hole for the oil cooler, and the trimmed down cooling duct opening
for the water cooler. Far less than the Europa normally has, so it
should be a relatively very low drag setup.
Whose idea was it to have the two radiators behind each other? I think
this was a grave design error.
If weather cooperates, we can tomorrow do some flight testing. I will
let you know.
Frans
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling issues, once again! |
On Jun 8, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Frans Veldman wrote:
> I built an exhaust augmenter to suck the warm air out of the cowling.
Frans,
A couple of photos, interior and exterior, of your augmenter would be
much appreciated.
Looks like you've solved your cooling problem!!...congratulations,
Fred
Message 23
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| Subject: | Self-Introduction - and looking for *ANY* info on N202Y (built |
by Jim Stoveken)
Hello everyone,
My name is Luc Michaud, and I have just joined the Europa-List yesterday.
I'm in the Montr=E9al region, and work in the IT group of Bombardier Aerosp
ace
(mostly on CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM/ERP projects).
I have been involved in the aviation world early on, getting both glider an
d
private pilot licenses even before my driver's license - thanks to the Roya
l
Canadian Air Cadets. Glider on Schweizer SGS 2-33's in St-Honore, private
on C152 in Bromont, both in Quebec, Canada.
The idea of building my own airplane was already quite present in my mind,
and I was fantatizing about eventually getting my own plane - at the time,
the Quickie-2. But, I was young, broke, and had to wait...
Wait I did... Then in the mid 90's, as my career was taking a lot of room,
I feel in love... ...with the Europa ! Zoom Campbell and all them other
guys were so drooling over it, and I couldn't wait to join them, soon...
Soon was not soon enough, if you ask me, but here I am ! A few weeks ago,
I
looked around for which kit would now be best. Europa and Dynaero were
pretty much the 2 contenders...
Then, about 3 weeks ago, my wife convinced me that I was a better idea to
fly my own airplane than spend years building it, whilst barely flying, in
others' airplanes. So off I went looking...
I found an Europa monowheel, classic, for sale, on barnstormers...
Airworthy, 300 hours TT, Rotax 912, Prince prop, bunch of mods done.
Already sent a deposit to the current owner.
Now, I'm trying to get any info that you guys may have on that airplane.
It's N202Y, built by James N Stoveken, out of Ocean Isle Beach, North
Carolina, and first flew in the Spring of 1999. I got to talk with Jim, a
really great guy; he flew about 280 hours of bliss on his N202Y, before
selling it about 2 years ago due to not being that young a coot anymore, an
d
already having a great Ercoupe (Alon A2).
His prior builds included a Quickie and a Boredom Fighter, so I felt that h
e
must have had the right stuff to build a sweet Europa.
So, now I'm trying to buy N202Y from Edward Arthur Goodman. I gathered tha
t
the airplane is in Townsend, GA. Mr. Goodman has had someone putting in a
bunch of mods (in Florida ?), the list of which I am yet to get. I know he
got the tailwheel moved to the back, but am not certain if he got the wing
mod done. I presume he did, as he got N202Y's annual signed off in 2010/03
(your thoughts ?).
*...
So now, I'm trying to get *ANY* info on N202Y... If you've seen it, worked
on it, flew it, let me know.
Also, if you live close to Savannah GA and would like to help, pls contact
me so we can discuss, as I need Europa knowledge, as well as paperwork
knowledge, as well as export from USA to Canada knowledge, as well as... :
(
Finally, if you live anywhere near Montreal (Canada) and fly Europa
monowheel airplanes, pls contact me. If you are a Canada-certified flight
instructor, well then I'm dreaming !
...
*
Best regards to this great community, which I hope I will be able to join
shortly,
Luc Michaud
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Self-Introduction - and looking for *ANY* info on N202Y |
(built by Jim Stoveken)
On Jun 8, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Luc Michaud wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> My name is Luc Michaud, and I have just joined the Europa-List
> yesterday.
Luc,
Excellent introduction !! I'm sure you'll make many friendships in
the Europa community.
Glad to learn you're not a Metropole (not that I have anything against
the French)...hope you'll join us in September for the Rough River, KY
europa fly in.
Good luck w/ your quest,
Fred
Message 25
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Gidday,
Is there any advantage in elevating my fuel system downstream of my fuel pumps
located low in the system quickly up to selectors and filters within the tunnel,
to minimise the fuel "quantity", and "mass" when it comes to minimising the
effects of head. I recall reading the fuel pumps have an 18" head, which is OK
for us, but it would actually suit me to elevate it quickly in the back of the
tunnel to the underside of a shelf I have cross tunnel, quite close to the
top at the mid tunnel position. I suppose the flip side is that if you had a very
shallow angle, you could ultimately get a volume of fluid a pump couldn't
push. Does anyone see a problem with this idea.??
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Ausssie
Message 26
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| Subject: | COOLING & NACA DUCTS |
FRANS et al -
I appreciate the thought that a NACA duct "lets air in" rather than
blows it in, but am reminded of a variant of the NA F-86 SABRE with a solid
nose and side NACA ducts for the engine intake!
I forget the variant number but I don't recall any complaint from
the testing of same - but there might have been some...... If not, surely
the engine would demand more flow than just "letting it in"?
Cheers, Ferg
PS: I fashioned a small duct designed and fabricated per the original
dimension ratio which directs 1.25 inch air onto the Ducati thing. (Fussing
about flying in rain tho'
Message 27
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| Subject: | Battery cable sizing |
The rear battery mode and such:
I have two batteries behind the second bulkhead in 3/8inch box and run #4CCA
through 1/2inch copper tubing. It's heavier but the batteries are not near
the gas tank.......
I worked out the relatives wire sizes of the tubing and will report
back once I've delved through the records.........!
Cheers Ferg
Message 28
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| Subject: | Propeller - Flying in rain |
Karl,
Can you please elaborate on what you say at the end of your response to my
question about flying in rain with air intake on top of cowling:
I have flown in the rain with the standard setup, while returning from
Oshkosh. I didn't notice any problems. But normally I try to avoid it,
because it isn't good for the propeller.
Regards
Svein
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