---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/19/10: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:53 AM - Dr Zeuss's Ball of String.......and isolating electrons (Tony Renshaw) 2. 02:30 AM - Re: Dr Zeuss's Ball of String.......and isolating electrons (Frans Veldman) 3. 08:20 AM - Re: door locks (Bud Yerly) 4. 08:21 AM - Re: door locks (Bud Yerly) 5. 08:47 AM - Europa Fuselage Cradle (flyingphil2) 6. 08:56 AM - Rough River Report (JEFF ROBERTS) 7. 09:12 AM - Re: Rough River Report (Fred Klein) 8. 10:02 AM - ELT installation - whip aerial (John Wighton) 9. 11:47 AM - FW: Popham International flyin (Brian Davies) 10. 12:01 PM - Re: ELT installation - whip aerial (Frans Veldman) 11. 01:25 PM - Re: The Europa(e) Hall in TheEFTP Finland (Tony Renshaw) 12. 07:10 PM - Re: Hose & Fittings (Robert Borger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:51 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Dr Zeuss's Ball of String.......and isolating electrons From: Tony Renshaw gidday, I reckon this is about the most inspirational book I read as a kid. I remember being sick home from school and being forced by mum to stay in bed. Grrrrhhhh. However, she gave me a "bell", get that, an old fashioned paging system! Well, if I couldn't get out of bed what could I do? I had my entire room setup with ropes/string, to do all manner of tasks. I could open the door as she approached, open and close doors, window blinds, and a bunch of things I have now forgotten, all whilst "staying in bed". I did however also "always" get the same toy as my "get well" gift, those plastic guns that fire the rubber suction cup darts. So, out with the string, and onto the dart, and wallah, a bedroom speargun! I could retrieve all manner of items whilst not breaking the rules, and staying in bed. So, when it comes to rope actuation, I'm the king. Craig and others have inspired more thought on this rope solution for a mechanical isolator, and in fact I think I'll go more down that path, shying away from those pesky electrons. Ironically, that is what the Flaming River Isolator does in the first place, without the rope/string, and at a $100.00 plus price tag, so maybe there is still other options available. Not a bad idea to run the battery cables through a fusebox of sorts where the fuse(s) can be reached with a mechanical cable. On another thread I have been encouraged to reconsider the Europa throttle cables for teflon sheathed ones. Maybe I can use my Ball of String skills to use such a cable to pull the (+) blade from the fuse, and all will be well, for not a lot of cash. What amperage fuse should I use for a 914 with a normal starter?? Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie,......via Singapore ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:39 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dr Zeuss's Ball of String.......and isolating electrons On 06/19/2010 09:53 AM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > Maybe I can use my Ball of String skills to use > such a cable to pull the (+) blade from the fuse, and all will be > well, for not a lot of cash. Great idea! You could also convert a standard relay into a mechanical switch. Just replace the coil by your bowden cable. It then also saves the holding current. > What amperage fuse should I use for a > 914 with a normal starter?? Wait a minute! You should take the starter out of the equation completely. The starter will have its own circuitry. You put the starter soleonid as closely as possible to the battery, and connect it directly to the battery, not to your master switch/relay. The starter cables will then only carry current during starting. So it is not going to be an issue during a forced landing. It is not normal practice to fuse the starter circuit. Starting current is very high anyway (over 100 Amps) and the cables are designed to handle this current. The starter cables are most likely to stand a full short cut without bursting into flames, and it won't take long before the battery is exhausted in such a situation anyway. Also, don't run the starting current through your master relay. There is no need to do this. Your master relay then only carries the current to your master bus, which isn't very high. I used car-style relays for this. They are much lighter, need less holding current, and are these days pretty reliable. About the fuse for the master bus: This should be clearly higher than the total load of your system, plus some extra for surge spikes. So, just add up the required current for your strobes, radio (while transmitting), flap drive motor, fuel pumps, transponder, etc. together. If you want to be more precise, just measure the current all these appliances take, and apply at least a 50% safety margin for the cable. The cable from the battery to your master bus should be able to handle this current easily, don't take any savings here. Then use a fuse with a rating just below the cable rating. So, you will likely end up with a fuse of 30 to 40 Amps. The same with your alternator. Wire it to your bus, not to your battery. So your bus can be fed by the battery and/or the alternator. If one fails (including the relay) you will still have the other. The alternator should be fused as well, take the same rating here as for your battery fuse, or preferably, a somewhat lower rating. If there is a shortcut in the alternator itself, the battery will feed the alternator to speed up its destruction, and you want the fuse to blow at the alternator's end, not at the battery's end. (The master bus is theoretically capable of supplying the summed up current from both your battery and alternator, keep this in mind. That's one of the reasons I recommend connecting the battery and alternator together exactly at the point where you are going to divide the current to all the individual appliances.) Of course, from your master bus, you will divide the power over the individual items in your ship. They should be fused individually, with again the same rules concerning wire diameter and fuse. Here you should not use heavier wire than needed. Remember that the fuse is there to protect the wire. Under no circumstances should you use a higher rated fuse than the current the wire is designed for (otherwise the wire will protect the fuse, that is, if there is a short cut the wire will take fire and the fuse wil stand). I used CB's for the individual items, but regular fuses for the master busses. If a master fuse blows, there is something very wrong here, and you shouldn't try to reset from that condition during flight. Worth mentioning here is that I have two independant buses, each with their own alternator and battery. If you are going to use an additional alternator anyway, I recommend splitting up the bus and battery, for redundancy and weight savings. The latter because you can use very small batteries, as there is not a single failure point that requires you to use the battery to keep the fuel pump going. Alternators are lighter than batteries. Frans ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:26 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: door locks Fred, I can and I am 5-10, so I believe most can. I always push on the backs and front of each door before takeoff as a door loss deterrent. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: door locks Bud...nice refinement w/ the "double D" hole and the inside knob (presumably) to ensure that rear door latch is engaged...question: Can the pilot reach both knobs?...I'm going to run out to the shop and make sure I can reach them while sitting in Ms. Europa. Fred On Jun 17, 2010, at 9:10 AM, Bud Yerly wrote: Photo E-mail Play slideshow | Download images Fred, Here is how I do it. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:06 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: door locks Fred, I can and I am 5-10, so I believe most can. I always push on the backs and front of each door before takeoff as a door loss deterrent. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: door locks Bud...nice refinement w/ the "double D" hole and the inside knob (presumably) to ensure that rear door latch is engaged...question: Can the pilot reach both knobs?...I'm going to run out to the shop and make sure I can reach them while sitting in Ms. Europa. Fred On Jun 17, 2010, at 9:10 AM, Bud Yerly wrote: Photo E-mail Play slideshow | Download images Fred, Here is how I do it. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:57 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Europa Fuselage Cradle From: "flyingphil2" I have a Europa fuselage cradle used for supporting the bottom moulding during build surplus to my requirements. Please contact me off list if this is of interest to you. Thanks, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301743#301743 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:47 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: Rough River Report Guy's, I just got off the phone with reservations at Rough River Park. Looks like depending on turnout, we are limited in the accommodations for the weekend of Sept. 11th. Whats available on Friday is not good for Saturday. Now if we book just saturday night there are at this point 2 cottages, 7 non smoking rooms and 7 smoking and the Sunday night opens up nice. Of course there is the work on Monday thing. On the weekend after, September the 17th & 18th we would be wide open with a total of 25 rooms and cottages for Friday and 26 total on Saturday. Labor Day weekend is quite booked so if we are to do something I think we should take a head count as to how many would be able to make it... weather pending of course. I guess we plan on driving if weather doesn't agree. Maybe we should start a list here just to see how many think they have the time and desire to make it happen this year. My plate is full but this for me moves up the priority list quit high. I know I know I'm one of the ones that live close. ;o) Jeff Roberts N128LJ Fly or Drive.... either weekend 11th or 18th. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:11 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough River Report On Jun 19, 2010, at 8:56 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > Maybe we should start a list here just to see how many think they > have the time and desire to make it I hope to make it...either weekend is ok w/ me...Fred ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:35 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: ELT installation - whip aerial From: "John Wighton" I have just received a Kannad 406 Compact ELT which came with the AV-200 whip antenna. I was originally hoping to just screw the ELT down and use a whip attached directly to the unit. However, l wondered if anyone had fitted a remote whip inside their aircraft? The AV-200 comes with a small ground plane plate, so l guess a fin LE installation may be possible (using a 2-3m cable to the ELT head unit). Any feedback or advise on the installation is welcome. An external antenna is an option but the new Sky4Covers l just paid for will then need to be modified! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301748#301748 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:23 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: FW: Europa-List: Popham International flyin _____ _____ _____ From: Brian Davies [mailto:bdavies@dircon.co.uk] Sent: 14 June 2010 20:09 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Popham International flyin We will be gathering at Sywell in September at the LAA Rally and also at the Aero Expo at Wycombe Air Park (Booker) 25-27 June. Wickenby Wings & Wheels 19-20 June. A Welsh fly in at Talybont on 22 August. There may be other gatherings which will be announced in the coming weeks. Details in the next Europa Flyer magazine. Brian Davies The Europa Club Membership sec. _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Fitton Sent: 14 June 2010 17:21 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Popham International flyin Sadly I missed this meeting due to work commitments Is there any more Europa meeting in the Uk Cheers Ray ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:40 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: ELT installation - whip aerial On 06/19/2010 07:01 PM, John Wighton wrote: > I have just received a Kannad 406 Compact ELT which came with the > AV-200 whip antenna. I was originally hoping to just screw the ELT > down and use a whip attached directly to the unit. However, l > wondered if anyone had fitted a remote whip inside their aircraft? Yep. My ELT can only work with a remote whip. I installed it behind the D-panel. Inside the airplane of course. You don't need a real ground panel, I used a perforated alu strip for that, running to the rear of the aircraft. > The AV-200 comes with a small ground plane plate, so l guess a fin LE > installation may be possible (using a 2-3m cable to the ELT head Do not do this if you have the COM antenna in the tail! The ELT antenna is still supposed to transmit a 121.5 homing signal, and is therefore tuned in the COM band. With such a close proximity to the other COM antenna, you can expect all kinds of problems for your COM unit, even if the ELT is not active. I can explain them if you want, but it is probably enough if I just warn you to keep a healty distance between the two antenna's. The D-panel is a good location. Frans ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:34 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: The Europa(e) Hall in TheEFTP Finland Gidday Bob, I have a bunch of fittings such as you describe. They are called Speedflow here in Aussie, and they are sold in Uk too. Just like Earls fittings. I thought to use the 666 Teflon lined hose you needed a special tool to build the fittings, but as you infer, better to get someone to make them up for you, albeit probably expensive. The car racing parts supply business seems to suck your money right out of your wallet as soon as you enter their store. So, I look forward to more updates if that is ok. I can chase them down from the list like anyone else, but if there is anything specific you'd be happy to share, pls beam it over. Reg Tony Renshaw PS. What prop are you swinging? On 18/06/2010, at 11:45 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > Raimo, > > Good work! Great shop/hanger/bar&grill! How 'bout some pics of the > inside? > > Bob Borger > Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 > http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 > Europa Flying! > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208 > Home: 940-497-2123 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > > > On Jun 17, 2010, at 19:39, Raimo Toivio wrote: > >> Europa Community - All of You ! >> >> I wanna share this moment instantly with all of you around the globe. >> I am writing this time 0330 AM - I came just from The EFTP. >> >> Last time when I have been airborne and a pilot was 13th of >> November 2009. >> That was because OH-XRT (and many other poor planes here) lost her >> hangar space in The EFTP. >> >> That was a serious business! >> >> I decided to make my own hangar and I call it The Europa[e] Hall ! >> That is why I have been really busy during last weeks! >> >> It was completed tonight! Look at the attached photo! If you check >> it carefully, you will notice Europa=C2=B4s official logo is slightly m >> odified in this case! >> Inside - there is a little bar, grill, service shop, alarm, safety >> cams via internet recording ability, some aviation gizmos, nose >> artist girls and other necessary equipments. >> It=C2=B4s size is just compact 9 x 12 m2. >> My wife certainly planted some rose bushes beside it! >> Because it is on a little hill, it is equipped also with an >> electric tow machine to pull RT inside (she is so fat lady that >> even for me it is almost too hard task to pull her inside manually). >> >> I trailered today OH-XRT from her home hangar from Lempaala to The >> EFTP and had also my first aviation session today. >> I was thrilled - I have been grounded over seven months. Could I >> fly any more (that wild tail wheeled mono)? >> >> Rotax fired upp immediately. >> Everything was ok. >> I taxied about 15 minutes and it felt so good! >> After I did some touch and goes and it felt also good or even >> better if possible. >> I did some of my best landings - Europa is really landable from the >> first touch to the final stop using less than 300 metres runway. >> After that I had a local flight 50 minutes. >> That seven months meant nothing - I felt as I had been airborne >> yesterday. >> Obviously flying Europa has gone to my backbone and more or less to >> my ass too! >> >> I feel COMPLETELY happy now! >> >> You there around the globe and still building: build it fast - just >> do it and complete it ! What sooner that better - it is really >> worth of it! >> >> Terveisin, Raimo Toivio (v=C3=A4h=C3=A4n mopo nyt keulii mutta antaa sen keu >> lia) >> >> Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 >> >> 155.10 hrs and 315 happy landings! >> >> 37500 Lempaala >> FINLAND >> >> p +358-3-3753 777 >> f +358-3-3753 100 >> >> toivio@fly.to >> www.rwm.fi >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Hose & Fittings From: Robert Borger Good evening Tony, Yes, Speedflow is the same brand I've been using recently. Right about the Aeroquip 666. It's not for mere mortals to assemble those hose parts. You MUST have all the special tools to do it. So I had all my 666 hoses made up for me. Not inexpensive! That's why I like Earl's. Good teflon hose in standard lengths with standard AN flared tube fittings. Or you can go the Speedflow route and make up your own hose for things like brakes. No special tools needed. I think that Earl's even has "How To" videos on the Speedflow fittings. I'm still trying to get a small leak fixed at the banjo end on the brake caliper. Not sure what's wrong. I'm going to try copper crush washers tomorrow morning to see if that works better than the aluminum ones I have been trying. And I'm afraid to really crank down on the banjo bolt for fear of stripping the threads on that (expen$ive) aluminum caliper body. My prop is a standard Airmaster AP332 with AC200 controller. Works great. Because it's electric, it can be a bit slow on the adjust so you don't want to make rapid MP increase in fine pitch. But otherwise it's great in climb and cruise. Really makes the most of the 914. And the Airmaster folks are fantastic to deal with. Check six, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jun 17, 2010, at 21:40, Tony Renshaw wrote: > Gidday Bob, > I have a bunch of fittings such as you describe. They are called Speedflow here in Aussie, and they are sold in Uk too. Just like Earls fittings. I thought to use the 666 Teflon lined hose you needed a special tool to build the fittings, but as you infer, better to get someone to make them up for you, albeit probably expensive. The car racing parts supply business seems to suck your money right out of your wallet as soon as you enter their store. > So, I look forward to more updates if that is ok. I can chase them down from the list like anyone else, but if there is anything specific you'd be happy to share, pls beam it over. > Reg > Tony Renshaw > PS. 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