---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/20/10: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:41 AM - Re: Hose & Fittings (Frans Veldman) 2. 03:56 AM - Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway (Frans Veldman) 3. 06:26 AM - SV: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway (Sidsel og Svein Johnsen) 4. 07:08 AM - Re: SV: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway (Frans Veldman) 5. 08:39 AM - Re: SV: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway (Tim Houlihan) 6. 10:56 AM - Re: Hose & Fittings (Fred Klein) 7. 12:03 PM - Re: ELT installation - whip aerial (John Wighton) 8. 12:13 PM - Re: Rough River Report (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 9. 12:23 PM - SV: SV: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway (Sidsel og Svein Johnsen) 10. 12:45 PM - Re: Rough River Report (Troy Maynor) 11. 01:59 PM - Re: Re: ELT installation - whip aerial (Frans Veldman) 12. 02:12 PM - Re: SV: SV: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway (Frans Veldman) 13. 04:00 PM - Re: SV: SV: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway (Karl Heindl) 14. 06:25 PM - Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement (Luc Michaud) 15. 07:35 PM - Re: Rough River Report (Robert Borger) 16. 08:02 PM - Re: Hose & Fittings (Robert Borger) 17. 08:11 PM - update, Piano hinge cowling (AirEupora) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:18 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Hose & Fittings On 06/20/2010 04:09 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > Yes, Speedflow is the same brand I've been using recently. > > Right about the Aeroquip 666. It's not for mere mortals to assemble > those hose parts. Talking about hose & fittings, you seem to be the right guy to direct my question to. Others are invited to answer too, of course. For my oil system I have pretty much used the Europa supplied hoses, clamps and fittings. But I have always had some reservations to have rubber hoses attached with a worm clamp to the engine, for such a critical system. As my oil cooling system is now finalised and working to my full satisfaction, I would like to replace all the hoses, fittings and clamps by something better. I'm a newbie in hoses, fittings and clamps, and the available options dazzle me. Furthermore, I have no clue what the names of the fittings of the oil cooler are, the oil tank, etc. and I'm likely to order the wrong parts. I see confusing AN-x parts, metric sizes, thread dimensions, etc. So, three questions here: 1) What kind of system (brand) is the best I can use. 2) Has anyone who went the same route, a list with the proper names of the fittings and sizes of the various parts of the oil system? 3) Can I order somewhere the correct hoses with the correct fittings clamped on, ready to fit? (Yes, measuring the required length of the hoses I can manage. ;-) ) Thanks, Frans ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:35 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Europa-List: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway Hi everyone, Ilona and I intent to make a flying/camping/hiking trip to Norway, and we will travel from the Netherlands via Denmark, Sweden to Norway. There have probably been some more Europa's to Norway, so maybe I can get some advice here. The main obstacle I see at the moment is that Norway requires one to go to an airfield with a customs facility. The main airport of the capital Oslo seems to be the only one within reach for us. There are two problems with this: We don't see this as the most practical camping/hiking facility so landing there would be only to satisfy the customs and have no value for us, and secondly we are somewhat shy of busy capital airports with commercial airliners all over the sky. ;-) The AIP of Norway offers two alternatives: One is to invite customs to another airfield, but then you have to pay for the transport and stay of the officers (amount due is not mentioned, so they might come with 10 officers and make a big party out of it, and we have to pay for it), and it utters something that for light aircraft travelling from Sweden there could be made a somewhat easier arrangement. No further information is given. I can write them a letter, but it might well be that it takes long before I get an answer. I have no problem to land in Sweden if that makes the whole thing easier. Has anyone experience how to deal with this? Any other recommendations regaring Denmark, Sweden and Norway are of course welcome too! Frans ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:54 AM PST US From: "Sidsel og Svein Johnsen" Subject: SV: Europa-List: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway Frans, I am in a hurry just now but will revert to the Norwegian customs issue tomorrow morning. If you arrive from a Schengen country (e.g. Denmark or Sweden) I do not think there will be a problem provided you inform Norwegian customs about your flight plan in advance, but let me double-check tomorrow. Regards, Svein (living in Norway) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:03 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway On 06/20/2010 03:25 PM, Sidsel og Svein Johnsen wrote: > I am in a hurry just now but will revert to the Norwegian customs issue > tomorrow morning. If you arrive from a Schengen country (e.g. Denmark or > Sweden) I do not think there will be a problem provided you inform Norwegian > customs about your flight plan in advance, but let me double-check tomorrow. I just found this in some other information package as well. Trouble is that the Norwegian AIP says otherwise (or I have misinterpreted it). But Norway, it isn't a Schengen country, is it? > Svein (living in Norway) Hey, I thought you are Swedish. Your airplane, doesn't it have a Swedish call sign, or do I confuse you with someone else? Thanks, Frans ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:47 AM PST US From: Tim Houlihan Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway For Schengen countries see http://www.axa-schengen.com/en/schengen-countries all the countries mentioned below are in Scengen Tim Frans Veldman wrote: > > On 06/20/2010 03:25 PM, Sidsel og Svein Johnsen wrote: > > >> I am in a hurry just now but will revert to the Norwegian customs issue >> tomorrow morning. If you arrive from a Schengen country (e.g. Denmark or >> Sweden) I do not think there will be a problem provided you inform Norwegian >> customs about your flight plan in advance, but let me double-check tomorrow. >> > > I just found this in some other information package as well. Trouble is > that the Norwegian AIP says otherwise (or I have misinterpreted it). But > Norway, it isn't a Schengen country, is it? > > >> Svein (living in Norway) >> > > Hey, I thought you are Swedish. Your airplane, doesn't it have a Swedish > call sign, or do I confuse you with someone else? > > Thanks, > Frans > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:56:02 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Hose & Fittings On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:39 AM, Frans Veldman wrote: > > > > On 06/20/2010 04:09 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > >> Yes, Speedflow is the same brand I've been using recently. >> >> Right about the Aeroquip 666. It's not for mere mortals to assemble >> those hose parts. > > Talking about hose & fittings, you seem to be the right guy to > direct my > question to. Others are invited to answer too, of course. Frans, FWIW, I happily found that making up SS hoses was not a big deal, though I was thoroughly intimidated when I first looked into them. I've transitioned from R9 fuel injection hose to SS CPE hose at the firewall w/ those thruwall fittings. I used items from the XRP catalogue which also includes at the very end a series of tutorials about how to install the hose fittings. http://www.xrp.com/ These fittings seem to be comparable to those in the Earl's catalogue which, I believe, is sourced in the UK. Taping the ends of the SS braid before using a Dremel cut off wheel worked well for me, and I found silicone spray lubricant to be essential. I'm not familar w/ size and compatibility issues relating to the Rotax. I'm sure that a guy with your talents would not break a sweat making up your own hoses, Fred ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:20 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: ELT installation - whip aerial From: "John Wighton" Frans, Yes that's good advice, the D-panel is easier to access as well. I will have a look at the posibilities next week when l manage to get to the airfield again. Have you wired the remote switch in? I was going to leave the actuation to ARM and use the ON switch if possible during evacuation of A/C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301828#301828 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:36 PM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough River Report Jeff- Put Lynne and I down for either weekend.=C2- We just bought a motor home when she retired, so will probably bring it, so a hotel room is a moot poin t.=C2- I had hoped to fly, but it will be close. Jim Puglise ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEFF ROBERTS" Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:56:25 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Europa-List: Rough River Report Guy's, I just got off the phone with reservations at Rough River Park. Looks =C2 - like depending on turnout, we are limited in the accommodations for =C2- the weekend of Sept. 11th. Whats available on Friday is not good for =C2- Saturday. Now if we book just saturday night there are at this point 2 =C2 - cottages, 7 non smoking rooms and 7 smoking and the Sunday night opens =C2 - up nice. Of course there is the work on Monday thing. On the weekend after, September the 17th & 18th we would be wide open =C2 - with a total of 25 rooms and cottages for Friday and 26 total on =C2- Saturday. Labor Day weekend is quite booked so if we are to do =C2- something I think we should take a head count as to how many would be =C2 - able to make it... weather pending of course. I guess we plan on =C2- driving if weather doesn't agree. Maybe we should start a list here just to see how many think they have =C2 - the time and desire to make it happen this year. My plate is full but =C2 - this for me moves up the priority list quit high. I know I know I'm =C2- one of the ones that live close. ;o) Jeff Roberts N128LJ Fly or Drive.... either weekend 11th or 18th. =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:21 PM PST US From: "Sidsel og Svein Johnsen" Subject: SV: SV: Europa-List: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway Frans, >>I just found this in some other information package as well. Trouble is that the Norwegian AIP says otherwise (or I have misinterpreted it). Here is the direct link to the Directorate of Customs' own web page containing all the necessary details: http://www.toll.no/templates_TAD/Article.aspx?id=145132&epslanguage=EN The flight plan may be sent by fax to: +47 22 86 08 00 or as an e-mail attachment (or summarized in the e-mail text) to: desken@toll.no or called in to telephone number: +47 22 17 18 17 if time or available fascilities do not make fax or e-mail practical (as when the flight plan has been called in to the AIS by telephone or time between filing the flight plan and ETA is shorter than the prescribed 4 hours (I did this two weeks ago when flying home from Denmark, no problem at all). I can assure you that this simple procedure is still in force - I have used it twice for leaving Norway and twice for re-entering this summer, most recently two weeks ago. Here is a good source for VFR flying in Norway, issued by our CAA: http://www.luftfartstilsynet.no/multimedia/archive/00006/VFR-guide_for_Norwa y__6222a.pdf Here you will also find (p. 31) the simple procedure for flying in and out of smaller aerodromes not having customs service, if flying from/to an aerodrome in a Schengen country. There is an unfortunate statement at the beginning of "TRAFFIC BETWEEN NORWAY AND SCHENGEN COUNTRIES", saying that it applies to aircraft holding a normal EASA type certificate. I have a year ago made our CAA aware that this special customs procedure also applies to homebuilt aircraft, but they have not bothered to correct it (there is no 2010 issue - yet). The entering/leaving/customs stipulations on p. 32 do not apply if you come from or fly to a Scehngen country. The language is unclear here and may cause confusion as to whether p.32 applies regardless, but it only comes into effect if you do not come from or fly to a Schengen country. >>But Norway, it isn't a Schengen country, is it? Norway is a Schengen country. Maybe you are thinking of EU, which we are not a member of. In another mail a day or two ago you asked about an island between Denmark and Sweden with an airstrip. There are actually (at least) two such islands, Anholt (EKAT)and Ls (Laesoe) EKLS. I have not been to Anholt, but can recommend Ls very highly. We had a small Nordic Europa fly-in there in May this year. Although camping by the aircraft is not generally permitted, we got permission. There is a nice club house with good facilities (no shower, though) which you should be able to get the key to. Good bikes are available for rent by prior arrangement (the aerodrome is unattended). Ls is a most charming island. Bring a good map of the roads to get to the places with shops and restuarants - there are no terrain features to navigate by (just like in Holland!). >>Hey, I thought you are Swedish. Your airplane, doesn't it have a Swedish call sign, or do I confuse you with someone else? Our union with Sweden ended in 1905! My airplane call sign is LN-SKJ - La Norvge (by coincidence, it was our turn in the alphabet!) Regards, Svein ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:05 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rough River Report From: "Troy Maynor" Jeff, Donna and I are looking forward to it for both Friday and Saturday Night, whichever weekend we can get a room at the inn. Perfrebly none smoking but will take either. Let me know so we can book now. Troy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301832#301832 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:52 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: ELT installation - whip aerial On 06/20/2010 09:02 PM, John Wighton wrote: > Frans, Yes that's good advice, the D-panel is easier to access as > well. I will have a look at the posibilities next week when l manage > to get to the airfield again. Have you wired the remote switch in? Yep, but only because it is mandatory here. If I would have the choice, I would just use a PLB instead of an ELT. The PLB can be used for other purposes as well, and you can easily take it with you in case you have to ditch. The ELT will sink to the bottom together with the ship. Furthermore, I'm not convinced that in a serious crash, where you are not able to walk away from, the ELT with separate antenna will survice as one working unit. > was going to leave the actuation to ARM and use the ON switch if > possible during evacuation of A/C. I would do it that way if mounting the silly remote switch "within the view of the pilot" wasn't a mandatory thing. Frans ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:53 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: SV: SV: Europa-List: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway On 06/20/2010 09:18 PM, Sidsel og Svein Johnsen wrote: > Here is a good source for VFR flying in Norway, issued by our CAA: > http://www.luftfartstilsynet.no/multimedia/archive/00006/VFR-guide_for_Norwa > y__6222a.pdf Your reply is most helpfull! Thank you very much! > Norway is a Schengen country. Maybe you are thinking of EU, which we are > not a member of. Ok, then I was wrong here. I remember from previous visits to Norway (by commercial airplane, and by boat) that I had to go through customs, and even got a stamp in my passport. But ok, my regular visits to Norway ended some 10 years ago, so things have probably changed since then. I still consider Norway as the most beautiful country of Europe, so that's why, now I have an affordable way to travel, I look forward to going there again. > In another mail a day or two ago you asked about an island between Denmark > and Sweden with an airstrip. There are actually (at least) two such > islands, Anholt (EKAT)and Ls (Laesoe) EKLS. Yep, I saw these on the maps. I just wondered whether they were worth visiting, and I'm pleased to hear that at least one of them is! >>> Hey, I thought you are Swedish. Your airplane, doesn't it have a Swedish > call sign, or do I confuse you with someone else? > Our union with Sweden ended in 1905! My airplane call sign is LN-SKJ Ok, I did confuse you with someone else. Well, now I won't forget it anymore. ;-) Where are you located in Norway? Thanks! Frans ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:10 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: SV: SV: Europa-List: Trip to Denmark, Sweden and Norway Svein wrote: > > > In another mail a day or two ago you asked about an island between Denm ark > > and Sweden with an airstrip. There are actually (at least) two such > > islands=2C Anholt (EKAT)and L=E6s=F8 (Laesoe) EKLS. > Many years ago I accompanied my brother in a Cessna from Germany to the D anish island Bornholm. I remember it as a very nice place=2C excellent air port=2C and reasonable accomodation just minutes away. Rent bicycles to exp lore the island. Karl ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:35 PM PST US From: Luc Michaud Subject: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Hello to you all I'm well progressing on my way to importing an Europa "classic" from the USA. I have had a few chats with the ppl in charge of inspections of amateur-built aircrafts at Transport Canada (http://www.md-ra.com) about their requirement for the firewall be made of a "fireproof material", like stainless or galvanized steel. However, he also stated that I could use any other material that has been used on any other Canada-airworthy Europa ! So, the question to all CANADIAN Europa owners: what is your Europa firewall made of ? Also, do all the Canadian Europas have carb heat on their Rotax engines ? If so, which origin ? My 912 currently does not have one... Regards, Luc ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough River Report From: Robert Borger Gents, I'm hoping to fly in this year, weather permitting. Either date will work for us. Just let us know so we can make reservations. Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jun 19, 2010, at 10:56, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > > Guy's, > I just got off the phone with reservations at Rough River Park. Looks like depending on turnout, we are limited in the accommodations for the weekend of Sept. 11th. Whats available on Friday is not good for Saturday. Now if we book just saturday night there are at this point 2 cottages, 7 non smoking rooms and 7 smoking and the Sunday night opens up nice. Of course there is the work on Monday thing. > > On the weekend after, September the 17th & 18th we would be wide open with a total of 25 rooms and cottages for Friday and 26 total on Saturday. Labor Day weekend is quite booked so if we are to do something I think we should take a head count as to how many would be able to make it... weather pending of course. I guess we plan on driving if weather doesn't agree. > > Maybe we should start a list here just to see how many think they have the time and desire to make it happen this year. My plate is full but this for me moves up the priority list quit high. I know I know I'm one of the ones that live close. ;o) > > > > Jeff Roberts N128LJ Fly or Drive.... either weekend 11th or 18th. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Hose & Fittings From: Robert Borger Frans, Working up a non-standard (as in not the way Europa does it) means of plumbing for petrol, oil, water and brake is not for the faint of heart. After my trials and tribulations in making Aeroquip 666 work for the petrol, I went with stock, by-the-Europa/Rotax-book plumbing for oil and water. You are right, the myriad means of connecting hose to device can be overwhelming. Often the simple barbed connector is the most expedient if not the most elegant solution. The only change I made to the cooling system was to use silicone rubber hose in place of the black stuff Europa supplied. I did that because the silicone is for all intent and purpose permanent. I could provide you with a list of parts that I used on my fuel system, but I doubt that yours is plumbed exactly like mine. You will probably have to work out what you need for your system yourself. You can find pre-made hose from many auto racing parts houses like Earl's ( http://www.anplumbing.com/ ) and XRP ( http://www.xrp.com/ ) and many other places. Custom hose will be made up for you by places like Aircraft Spruce and Wicks, etc. I would suggest that you do not actually remove any part of a functioning system until you are absolutely certain that the pile of parts you think will work will actually work. Check six, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jun 20, 2010, at 5:39, Frans Veldman wrote: > > On 06/20/2010 04:09 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > >> Yes, Speedflow is the same brand I've been using recently. >> >> Right about the Aeroquip 666. It's not for mere mortals to assemble >> those hose parts. > > Talking about hose & fittings, you seem to be the right guy to direct my > question to. Others are invited to answer too, of course. > > For my oil system I have pretty much used the Europa supplied hoses, > clamps and fittings. But I have always had some reservations to have > rubber hoses attached with a worm clamp to the engine, for such a > critical system. > As my oil cooling system is now finalised and working to my full > satisfaction, I would like to replace all the hoses, fittings and clamps > by something better. > > I'm a newbie in hoses, fittings and clamps, and the available options > dazzle me. Furthermore, I have no clue what the names of the fittings of > the oil cooler are, the oil tank, etc. and I'm likely to order the wrong > parts. I see confusing AN-x parts, metric sizes, thread dimensions, etc. > > So, three questions here: > 1) What kind of system (brand) is the best I can use. > 2) Has anyone who went the same route, a list with the proper names of > the fittings and sizes of the various parts of the oil system? > 3) Can I order somewhere the correct hoses with the correct fittings > clamped on, ready to fit? (Yes, measuring the required length of the > hoses I can manage. ;-) ) > > Thanks, > Frans > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:50 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: update, Piano hinge cowling From: "AirEupora" I ended up starting over. The oil cooler was still hitting the bottom of the cowl. I ended up cut a square "V" in the bottom cowl. That was my main problem from the beginning. I took the piano hinge off with a heat gun and then reinstalled the lower cowl. I move it back a 1/4 inch and trim the excess off as it was hitting the back of the prop bulkhead. I then had to re-drill the holes and put cleos in them. I measure the cowling from the lower nose landing gear and installed the lower cowling. An interesting thing was that the cowling was not the same on both sides. the left side was 41 1/2" from the floor. The right was 41 1/4". I then put the piano hinge back on and worked the hinge points until it dropped into place and the rod would go in with a little pressure. The top cowling had to be trim back also and then the right side had to be trim to fit. I does now. I'd like to thank all those that help me with this problem. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301870#301870 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/lower_cowl_003_391.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/lower_cowl_002_504.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/lower_cowl_001_240.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.