---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/25/10: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:34 AM - Re: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 2. 06:30 AM - Re: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement (david miller) 3. 08:55 AM - Re: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement (Karl Heindl) 4. 09:21 AM - Gallery Album Missing (Troy Maynor) 5. 09:50 AM - Re: Fw: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A (JEFF ROBERTS) 6. 11:05 AM - Re: Fw: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A (Jeff B) 7. 01:03 PM - Re: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement (david miller) 8. 01:38 PM - Re: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement (Frans Veldman) 9. 03:41 PM - Re: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement (Bud Yerly) 10. 09:13 PM - Re: Fw: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:33 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Hi Dave=0Amost contamination gets in when fuel is added. Rust from Jerry ca ns is not uncommon, also algae from old fuel. You really need separate filt ers so that if one blocks you have a get down safely reserve. 914s tend to be more of a problem because of the high flow rate.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________=0AFrom: david miller =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, 25 June, 2010 3:06:53 =0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof materia l" airworthiness requirement=0A=0AHi Graham,=0AI've never picked up any w ater or crud in my Andair, however a friends filtered out some very strange algae type substance.=0AHe realised he had a problem when he noticed the f uel pressure dropping while in flight.=0A=0ADave =0A=0AOn 23-Jun-10, at 6:5 9 PM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:=0A=0ADave=0A>Imho the Skydrive carb heat is t he only sensible way to go. Similarly an Andair or equivalent quality gasco lator is also the only sensible way to go, really you need two gascolators, which is expensive, but I would go with one and a Purolator one in the res erve line. Then it is easy to check for water and muck before every day's f lying. which (other people's) experience tells us is a vital action.=0A>Gra ham=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?E uropa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A>href="http: //forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>href="http://www.m atronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A=0A ================= ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:51 AM PST US From: david miller Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Hi Graham, It was a 914. We have both tried using filter funnels while fueling, however the process is painfully slow, so we are back to using fuel straight from plastic jerry cans. We use Shell premium which has been very clean, and in Ontario there is no ethanol in it Dave On 25-Jun-10, at 3:29 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: > Hi Dave > most contamination gets in when fuel is added. Rust from Jerry cans > is not uncommon, also algae from old fuel. You really need separate > filters so that if one blocks you have a get down safely reserve. > 914s tend to be more of a problem because of the high flow rate. > Graham > >> > > http://www===================== > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:33 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Dave and Graham=2C I am puzzled by all this fuss about fuel contamination. Why have I never he ard about a car having this problem ? I have never noticed anything more than a spec of dust in the Andair gascol ator. I also buy most fuel from new gas stations where the turnover is high =2C and pour it through a funnel with built-in sieve. And I keep a full tan k through the winter months. Karl From: loboloda@execulink.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Hi Graham=2C It was a 914. We have both tried using filter funnels while fueling=2C however the proces s is painfully slow=2C so we are back to using fuel straight from plastic jerry cans. We use Shell premium which has been very clean=2C and in Ontario there is no ethanol in it Dave On 25-Jun-10=2C at 3:29 AM=2C GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: Hi Dave most contamination gets in when fuel is added. Rust from Jerry cans is not uncommon=2C also algae from old fuel. You really need separate filters so t hat if one blocks you have a get down safely reserve. 914s tend to be more of a problem because of the high flow rate. Graham http://www===================== face="courier new=2Ccourier">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Li st href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:41 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Gallery Album Missing From: "Troy Maynor" Hi All, I was just on the gallery wanting to look at the pix of the Rough River Europa Fly-in of 2007. It's not there. I don't know how long it's been since I looked but it may have not made it during the forum transition. Do I need to re-upload it or is it out there in the ether? Troy Maynor Europa Monowheel Classic -UK120 Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302483#302483 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:31 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A Hi Greg, Thanks for the kind words but it did remind me to tell everyone something I may have left out. YOU DON'T HAVE TO FLY IN TO ATTEND!! There isn't a better way for a builder, or future owner to stay motivated than to see other Europa's and talk to other Europa owners / builders in person. So please anyone that is in the process of building or thinking about Europa ownership you need to come to Rough River state park in KY. on the 17th & 18th. If you let me know we'll add you to the blow list of people driving in. You can catch international flights in to Louisville (Or should I say Louiavulle or louieville) and the drive in a rental is an hour or so over to the park. If you drive in you may be ask to bring a few gas cans and a few cases of beer so please let us know. Your services are needed. Regards, Jeff R. On Jun 24, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote: > Beautiful shots....makes me want to go build faster! > > do not archive > > > Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in. > Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In > Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o).. > Jim & Lynne Puglise - Flying or Driving the motor home. > Fred Kline.... All the way from California. > John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa > Bob Borger N914XL - Flying In from Texas > Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl > mods ready. > Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in > Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud! > Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob. > John Wigney - Flying in! >> >> >> >> >> Left Base going into Rough River year before last. This is the >> weather we're going to have! I'm hammering on the wood as I type. >> >> >> >> >> >> Guys... Remember this loose formation. >> >> <3 in Formation.jpg> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:13 AM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A ...and besides, we need somebody to ferry fuel cans and such... :) Jeff - Baby Blue do not archive On 6/25/2010 11:49 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > Hi Greg, > Thanks for the kind words but it did remind me to tell everyone > something I may have left out. YOU DON'T HAVE TO FLY IN TO ATTEND!! > > There isn't a better way for a builder, or future owner to stay > motivated than to see other Europa's and talk to other Europa owners / > builders in person. So please anyone that is in the process of building > or thinking about Europa ownership you need to come to Rough River state > park in KY. on the 17th & 18th. If you let me know we'll add you to the > blow list of people driving in. You can catch international flights in > to Louisville (Or should I say Louiavulle or louieville) and the drive > in a rental is an hour or so over to the park. If you drive in you may > be ask to bring a few gas cans and a few cases of beer so please let us > know. Your services are needed. > > Regards, > > Jeff R. > > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote: > >> Beautiful shots....makes me want to go build faster! >> do not archive >> >> >> Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in. >> Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In >> Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o).. >> Jim & Lynne Puglise - Flying or Driving the motor home. >> Fred Kline.... All the way from California. >> John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa >> Bob Borger N914XL - Flying In from Texas >> Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl >> mods ready. >> Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in >> Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud! >> Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob. >> John Wigney - Flying in! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Left Base going into Rough River year before last. This is the >>> weather we're going to have! I'm hammering on the wood as I type. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Guys... Remember this loose formation. >>> >>> <3 in Formation.jpg> >>> >>> >>> >> > > * > > > * > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:06 PM PST US From: david miller Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Hi Karl, I've never found anything in the Andair, or collected any water from the fuel drains. Chris got the Algae, now we both buy from busy stations. He keeps his tank full, I don't, preferring to buy fresh fuel each time I fly. If the weather ever settles down would be nice to meet up halfway sometime. Dave On 25-Jun-10, at 11:41 AM, Karl Heindl wrote: > > I have never noticed anything more than a spec of dust in the > Andair gascolator. I also buy most fuel from new gas stations where > the turnover is high, and pour it through a funnel with built-in > sieve. And I keep a full tank through the winter months. > > Karl > > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ronics.com > ww.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:16 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement On 06/25/2010 10:15 PM, david miller wrote: > He keeps his tank full, I don't, preferring to buy fresh fuel each time > I fly. It depends on where you live. In a dry climate you can do it this way, in a wet climate like the Netherlands it is better to keep the tank filled all the time: Temperatures tend to vary a lot, with every change in temperature the air in the tank expands or contracts, so the tank "breaths" a lot. With every drop of temperature the tank sucks in some new air, and together with the air you draw in a lot of moisture from the air. With repeated temperature changes you get condensation on your tank walls, and if there is ethanol in the fuel, you won't find any water in the drains because the ethanol binds the water. Until it is saturated, and as the saturation point is determined by altitude and temperature, it often happens during flight that the water suddenly drops out. Keeping the tank full at all times is a good guard against water collection in the fuel. Frans ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:10 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Karl, Dave and Graham, I use a Mister Funnel and very clean Jerry Cans. Our local Florida stations have ethanol now, and as an experiment am running it full time without incident so far. Ethanol cleans the tank very well. After the third tank of gas run through preflight I filled the filter. After 1 hour of flying time I noticed a slight fuel pressure drop and switched to the reserve and pressure returned. Clogged filter. Haven't had a problem since. The fuel filters stay clean, but I have noticed all but my post pump R9 fuel lines (Goodyear) are smelling like a gas leak. Next oil change, all the fuel lines are coming out. It seems that the inside of the older fuel injection lines (Discount Auto Parts) are swelling a bit as well. I have noticed the inside of the drain lines sloughing off a whiteish material and am concerned. I flushed my lines with denatured alcohol before installation but did not run a small cleaning cotton through them. I have not seen water or growth in my tanks or my long sitting fuel cans. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:41 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Dave and Graham, I am puzzled by all this fuss about fuel contamination. Why have I never heard about a car having this problem ? I have never noticed anything more than a spec of dust in the Andair gascolator. I also buy most fuel from new gas stations where the turnover is high, and pour it through a funnel with built-in sieve. And I keep a full tank through the winter months. Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: loboloda@execulink.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:42:22 -0400 To: europa-list@matronics.com Hi Graham, It was a 914. We have both tried using filter funnels while fueling, however the process is painfully slow, so we are back to using fuel straight from plastic jerry cans. We use Shell premium which has been very clean, and in Ontario there is no ethanol in it Dave On 25-Jun-10, at 3:29 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: Hi Dave most contamination gets in when fuel is added. Rust from Jerry cans is not uncommon, also algae from old fuel. You really need separate filters so that if one blocks you have a get down safely reserve. 914s tend to be more of a problem because of the high flow rate. Graham http://www===================== face="courier new,courier">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:42 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A Jeff/All, I'll be flying commercial into Louisville, arriving 4 pm on Friday, Sept. 17th, and will be driving down to RR directly. Happy to bring others w/ me if timing works. Regarding bringing in gas, if extra gas is desirable for those flying in and I were to pick up a 5 gal can (perhaps more than one?), is there a Europa driver who needs a spare and would take it off my hands?...I wouldn't think it would qualify as a carry-on when I depart on the airline. Also, please advise preferred grade of "petrol" BTW Jeff...I'll be coming from Orcas Island, WA...not California. Looking forward to great weather, lottsa purdy birds, and sum great flyin tales, Fred On Jun 25, 2010, at 9:49 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > Hi Greg, > Thanks for the kind words but it did remind me to tell everyone > something I may have left out. YOU DON'T HAVE TO FLY IN TO ATTEND!! > > There isn't a better way for a builder, or future owner to stay > motivated than to see other Europa's and talk to other Europa > owners / builders in person. So please anyone that is in the process > of building or thinking about Europa ownership you need to come to > Rough River state park in KY. on the 17th & 18th. If you let me know > we'll add you to the blow list of people driving in. You can catch > international flights in to Louisville (Or should I say Louiavulle > or louieville) and the drive in a rental is an hour or so over to > the park. If you drive in you may be ask to bring a few gas cans and > a few cases of beer so please let us know. Your services are needed. > > Regards, > > Jeff R. > > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote: > >> Beautiful shots....makes me want to go build faster! >> >> do not archive >> >> >> Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in. >> Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In >> Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o).. >> Jim & Lynne Puglise - Flying or Driving the motor home. >> Fred Kline.... All the way from California. >> John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa >> Bob Borger N914XL - Flying In from Texas >> Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl >> mods ready. >> Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in >> Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud! >> Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob. >> John Wigney - Flying in! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Left Base going into Rough River year before last. This is the >>> weather we're going to have! I'm hammering on the wood as I type. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Guys... Remember this loose formation. >>> >>> <3 in Formation.jpg> >>> >>> >>> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.