Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:37 AM - Re: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
2. 01:44 AM - Re: Fw: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A (Greg Fuchs)
3. 05:47 AM - Re: Gallery Album Missing (Troy Maynor)
4. 11:55 AM - Re: Fw: Rough River up-date #4 Revised (Robert Borger)
5. 12:12 PM - Re: Fw: Rough River up-date #4 Revised (JEFF ROBERTS)
6. 12:22 PM - Rough River Update #5 (JEFF ROBERTS)
7. 02:39 PM - Re: fuel contamination (Bud Yerly)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness |
requirement
Bud=0Aan English 914 tri gear had his Andair mini gascolator block. The rus
t from an old Jerry can passed thru the Mister Funnel he always uses. The m
esh of the Andair is 70micron, Mister funnel 120 micron,(check that figure)
Just one more obscure gotcha. =0AAndair told me their problem was that Rot
ax specify 100micron and they can only source 70.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__
______________________________=0AFrom: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>=0ATo: e
uropa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, 25 June, 2010 23:34:57=0ASubject:
Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airwor
thiness requirement=0A=0A =0AKarl, Dave and Graham,=0AI use a Mister Funnel
and very clean Jerry Cans. Our local Florida =0Astations have ethanol now
, and as an experiment am running it full time without =0Aincident so far.
Ethanol cleans the tank very well. After the =0Athird tank of gas run thr
ough preflight I filled the filter. After 1 hour =0Aof flying time I notic
ed a slight fuel pressure drop and switched to =0Athe reserve and pressure
returned. Clogged filter. Haven't had a =0Aproblem since. =0A =0AThe fuel
filters stay clean, but I have noticed all but my post pump R9 =0Afuel lin
es (Goodyear) are smelling like a gas leak. Next oil change, all =0Athe fu
el lines are coming out. It seems that the inside of the older fuel =0Ainj
ection lines (Discount Auto Parts) are swelling a bit as well. I have =0An
oticed the inside of the drain lines sloughing off a whiteish material and
am =0Aconcerned. I flushed my lines with denatured alcohol before installa
tion =0Abut did not run a small cleaning cotton through them. I have not s
een =0Awater or growth in my tanks or my long sitting fuel cans. =0A =0ABud
=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Karl Heindl =0A>To: europa-lis
t@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:41 =0A>AM=0A>Subject: RE
: Europa-List: Firewall =0A> material vs Canada "fireproof material" airwo
rthiness requirement=0A>=0A> =0A> =0A>Dave and Graham,=0A> =0A>I am puzzle
d by all this fuss about fuel =0A> contamination. Why have I never heard a
bout a car having this problem ?=0A>I =0A> have never noticed anything mor
e than a spec of dust in the Andair gascolator. =0A> I also buy most fuel
from new gas stations where the turnover is high, and =0A> pour it through
a funnel with built-in sieve. And I keep a full tank through =0A> the win
ter months.=0A> =0A>Karl=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>_____________________
___________=0A > From: loboloda@execulink.com=0A>Subject: Re: Europa-List:
Firewall material vs =0A> Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requi
rement=0A>Date: Fri, 25 Jun =0A> 2010 09:42:22 -0400=0A>To: europa-list@ma
tronics.com=0A>=0A>Hi Graham, =0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>It was a 914.=0A>We have bot
h tried using filter funnels while fueling, however the =0A> process is pa
infully slow, so we are back=0A>to using fuel straight from plastic jerry c
ans. We use Shell premium =0A> which has been very clean, and in Ontario
=0A>there is no ethanol in it=0A>=0A>=0A>Dave =0A>=0A>On 25-Jun-10, at 3:29
AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:=0A>=0A>Hi Dave=0A>>most contamination gets in
when fuel is added. Rust from =0A>> Jerry cans is not uncommon, also alg
ae from old fuel. You really need =0A>> separate filters so that if one
blocks you have a get down safely reserve. =0A>> 914s tend to be more of
a problem because of the high flow =0A>> rate.=0A>>Graham=0A>>=0A>>=0A>
>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>http://www================
=======0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>face="courier new,courier">http://w
ww.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=0A>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution =0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Eur
opa-List=0A>ronics.com=0A>ww.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>href="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0A=0A=0A_
-========================
===============
Message 2
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Subject: | Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A |
Jeff(s) and Rough River goers,
Thanks, I would like to be there this year(and would be happy to do some
jerry can and beer runs), but time is in short supply, and currently
spendably deprived, but I will attend starting one of these years. I just
took 7 months off from the build to work on vehicles with years of
neglect(conincided with the cold part of the year), so if that happens next
year, I will have to steal my way down there somehow for the motivation and
personal visiting. Too bad there are no current builders around the
Portland, OR area (that I know of ). I think that I am all alone over here.
Have fun down there, you guys. Have an extra beer on me! :-) Maybe someone
could take some more wonderful shots. Those are motivating too.
Best Regards,
Greg
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A
...and besides, we need somebody to ferry fuel cans and such... :)
Jeff - Baby Blue
do not archive
On 6/25/2010 11:49 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> Thanks for the kind words but it did remind me to tell everyone
> something I may have left out. YOU DON'T HAVE TO FLY IN TO ATTEND!!
>
> There isn't a better way for a builder, or future owner to stay
> motivated than to see other Europa's and talk to other Europa owners /
> builders in person. So please anyone that is in the process of
> building or thinking about Europa ownership you need to come to Rough
> River state park in KY. on the 17th & 18th. If you let me know we'll
> add you to the blow list of people driving in. You can catch
> international flights in to Louisville (Or should I say Louiavulle or
> louieville) and the drive in a rental is an hour or so over to the
> park. If you drive in you may be ask to bring a few gas cans and a few
> cases of beer so please let us know. Your services are needed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff R.
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote:
>
>> Beautiful shots....makes me want to go build faster!
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in.
>> Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In Troy & Donna Maynor
>> - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o)..
>> Jim & Lynne Puglise - Flying or Driving the motor home.
>> Fred Kline.... All the way from California.
>> John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa Bob Borger
>> N914XL - Flying In from Texas Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the
>> country and getting new cowl mods ready.
>> Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in
>> Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud!
>> Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob.
>> John Wigney - Flying in!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Left Base going into Rough River year before last. This is the
>>> weather we're going to have! I'm hammering on the wood as I type.
>>>
>>>
>>> <Left Base @ RR.JPG>
>>>
>>>
>>> Guys... Remember this loose formation.
>>>
>>> <3 in Formation.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Gallery Album Missing |
All,
Never mind. I found it. It's under the gallery, "Flying Europas", right where I
put in the first time. It's just in reverse order now after the move. No big
thing. I need to move it to the new "gatherings folder".
Troy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302572#302572
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised |
Jeff,
You can add my wife Maureen to the list.
And, FWIW, N914XL has been named Little Dragon Lady.
Check six,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jun 24, 2010, at 10:24, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
> Woops... Jim fell off my list... sorry Jim Bob!!
> Now we're up to 11 Europa's flying in! ;o)
>
>
> Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in.
> Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In
> Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o)..
> Jim & Lynne Puglise - Flying or Driving the motor home.
> Fred Kline.... All the way from California.
> John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa
> Bob Borger N914XL - Flying In from Texas
> Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl mods ready.
> Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in
> Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud!
> Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob.
> John Wigney - Flying in!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Left Base going into Rough River year before last. This is the weather we're
going to have! I'm hammering on the wood as I type.
>>
>>
>> <Left Base @ RR.JPG>
>>
>>
>> Guys... Remember this loose formation.
>>
>> <3 in Formation.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised |
Roger that!
Jeff Roberts
Eagleville Marketing Group
615-355-7575 Office
615-406-8651 Cell
615-534-1082 Fax
On Jun 26, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Robert Borger wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> You can add my wife Maureen to the list.
>
> And, FWIW, N914XL has been named Little Dragon Lady.
>
> Check six,
> Bob Borger
> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
> http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
> http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
> Europa Flying!
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208
> Home: 940-497-2123
> Cel: 817-992-1117
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2010, at 10:24, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
>
>> Woops... Jim fell off my list... sorry Jim Bob!!
>> Now we're up to 11 Europa's flying in! ;o)
>>
>>
>> Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in.
>> Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In
>> Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o)..
>> Jim & Lynne Puglise - Flying or Driving the motor home.
>> Fred Kline.... All the way from California.
>> John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa
>> Bob Borger N914XL - Flying In from Texas
>> Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl
>> mods ready.
>> Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in
>> Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud!
>> Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob.
>> John Wigney - Flying in!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Left Base going into Rough River year before last. This is the
>>> weather we're going to have! I'm hammering on the wood as I type.
>>>
>>>
>>> <Left Base @ RR.JPG>
>>>
>>>
>>> Guys... Remember this loose formation.
>>>
>>> <3 in Formation.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Rough River Update #5 |
If you have any special plane names, wives names or N numbers I don't
have on this list please send it to me direct. Actually if you have a
picture of the bird I would like to feature one with each up-date. You
may send that direct as well. I'll just have me a little fun with this
list.
Jeff
Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in.
Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In
Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o)..
Jim & Lynne Puglise - Driving the air conditioned control tower, beer
bar, meeting place/motor home. ;o)
Fred Kline.... All the way from Orcas Island, WA
John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa
Bob & Maureen Borger N914XL Flying In from Texas in... Little Dragon
Lady.
Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl
mods ready.
Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in
Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud!
Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob.
John Wigney - Flying in!
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: fuel contamination |
Graham,
How true. I don't think Mr Funnel is even 120 microns. Ultralight news
tested it at .005, which is about 120 microns but who knows. We are not
labs.
I have not been a fan of gascolators as I am in Florida, and have never
seen water in a Poly tank from sweating, but I am sure it is possible.
My fuel drains seem to work, and the filters supplied catch the crap and
the float bowls, have always been clean ((ish) except for in line debris
post filter I failed to clean once) and the filters allow me to switch
tanks when the filter begins to clog (noted from the fuel pressure
warning using my FP-5).
A single gascolator, as you know, is a single point of failure, and many
have installed two. Why not have two filters and a tank drains as the
manual indicates. I thought that was pretty sound.
Andy from Andair at Sun n Fun last year told me the same thing about the
gascolator screen and we shared how to inspect (you can't except to
disassemble it) and clean them. Since then I don't even consider a
gascolator. This is a personal preference. Filters are clear to see
in, easy to change, cheap to buy and good enough for me. A quick
disconnect makes it a breeze to pull out and take to the bench and
service without dripping all over the place. If I had a Marvel Schebler
Carburetor I'd use a gascolator. You can drive a truck through the
orifice.
As for old Jerry Cans, cleanliness is next to Godliness, pay attention
to where you get your fuel, Mister Funnel only is a catch for big stuff
and water when refueling in the rain. Keep an eye on your filters,
clean your tank annually, inspect, inspect, inspect, and throw your
filters out every 25 hours along with the old oil and filter...
Ground your aircraft and your Jerry Can. Those wool sweaters and
plastic bed liners can generate quite a spark. More on fueling at Rough
River.
Thanks for your insight as always.
Bud.
----- Original Message -----
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof
material" airworthiness requirement
Bud
an English 914 tri gear had his Andair mini gascolator block. The rust
from an old Jerry can passed thru the Mister Funnel he always uses. The
mesh of the Andair is 70micron, Mister funnel 120 micron,(check that
figure) Just one more obscure gotcha.
Andair told me their problem was that Rotax specify 100micron and they
can only source 70.
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, 25 June, 2010 23:34:57
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof
material" airworthiness requirement
Karl, Dave and Graham,
I use a Mister Funnel and very clean Jerry Cans. Our local Florida
stations have ethanol now, and as an experiment am running it full time
without incident so far. Ethanol cleans the tank very well. After the
third tank of gas run through preflight I filled the filter. After 1
hour of flying time I noticed a slight fuel pressure drop and switched
to the reserve and pressure returned. Clogged filter. Haven't had a
problem since.
The fuel filters stay clean, but I have noticed all but my post pump
R9 fuel lines (Goodyear) are smelling like a gas leak. Next oil change,
all the fuel lines are coming out. It seems that the inside of the
older fuel injection lines (Discount Auto Parts) are swelling a bit as
well. I have noticed the inside of the drain lines sloughing off a
whiteish material and am concerned. I flushed my lines with denatured
alcohol before installation but did not run a small cleaning cotton
through them. I have not seen water or growth in my tanks or my long
sitting fuel cans.
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Karl Heindl<mailto:kheindl@msn.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof
material" airworthiness requirement
Dave and Graham,
I am puzzled by all this fuss about fuel contamination. Why have I
never heard about a car having this problem ?
I have never noticed anything more than a spec of dust in the Andair
gascolator. I also buy most fuel from new gas stations where the
turnover is high, and pour it through a funnel with built-in sieve. And
I keep a full tank through the winter months.
Karl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: loboloda@execulink.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof
material" airworthiness requirement
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:42:22 -0400
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Hi Graham,
It was a 914.
We have both tried using filter funnels while fueling, however the
process is painfully slow, so we are back
to using fuel straight from plastic jerry cans. We use Shell premium
which has been very clean, and in Ontario
there is no ethanol in it
Dave
On 25-Jun-10, at 3:29 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
Hi Dave
most contamination gets in when fuel is added. Rust from Jerry
cans is not uncommon, also algae from old fuel. You really need separate
filters so that if one blocks you have a get down safely reserve. 914s
tend to be more of a problem because of the high flow rate.
Graham
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