---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/26/10: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:37 AM - Re: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 2. 01:44 AM - Re: Fw: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A (Greg Fuchs) 3. 05:47 AM - Re: Gallery Album Missing (Troy Maynor) 4. 11:55 AM - Re: Fw: Rough River up-date #4 Revised (Robert Borger) 5. 12:12 PM - Re: Fw: Rough River up-date #4 Revised (JEFF ROBERTS) 6. 12:22 PM - Rough River Update #5 (JEFF ROBERTS) 7. 02:39 PM - Re: fuel contamination (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:23 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Bud=0Aan English 914 tri gear had his Andair mini gascolator block. The rus t from an old Jerry can passed thru the Mister Funnel he always uses. The m esh of the Andair is 70micron, Mister funnel 120 micron,(check that figure) Just one more obscure gotcha. =0AAndair told me their problem was that Rot ax specify 100micron and they can only source 70.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__ ______________________________=0AFrom: Bud Yerly =0ATo: e uropa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, 25 June, 2010 23:34:57=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airwor thiness requirement=0A=0A =0AKarl, Dave and Graham,=0AI use a Mister Funnel and very clean Jerry Cans. Our local Florida =0Astations have ethanol now , and as an experiment am running it full time without =0Aincident so far. Ethanol cleans the tank very well. After the =0Athird tank of gas run thr ough preflight I filled the filter. After 1 hour =0Aof flying time I notic ed a slight fuel pressure drop and switched to =0Athe reserve and pressure returned. Clogged filter. Haven't had a =0Aproblem since. =0A =0AThe fuel filters stay clean, but I have noticed all but my post pump R9 =0Afuel lin es (Goodyear) are smelling like a gas leak. Next oil change, all =0Athe fu el lines are coming out. It seems that the inside of the older fuel =0Ainj ection lines (Discount Auto Parts) are swelling a bit as well. I have =0An oticed the inside of the drain lines sloughing off a whiteish material and am =0Aconcerned. I flushed my lines with denatured alcohol before installa tion =0Abut did not run a small cleaning cotton through them. I have not s een =0Awater or growth in my tanks or my long sitting fuel cans. =0A =0ABud =0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Karl Heindl =0A>To: europa-lis t@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:41 =0A>AM=0A>Subject: RE : Europa-List: Firewall =0A> material vs Canada "fireproof material" airwo rthiness requirement=0A>=0A> =0A> =0A>Dave and Graham,=0A> =0A>I am puzzle d by all this fuss about fuel =0A> contamination. Why have I never heard a bout a car having this problem ?=0A>I =0A> have never noticed anything mor e than a spec of dust in the Andair gascolator. =0A> I also buy most fuel from new gas stations where the turnover is high, and =0A> pour it through a funnel with built-in sieve. And I keep a full tank through =0A> the win ter months.=0A> =0A>Karl=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>_____________________ ___________=0A > From: loboloda@execulink.com=0A>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs =0A> Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requi rement=0A>Date: Fri, 25 Jun =0A> 2010 09:42:22 -0400=0A>To: europa-list@ma tronics.com=0A>=0A>Hi Graham, =0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>It was a 914.=0A>We have bot h tried using filter funnels while fueling, however the =0A> process is pa infully slow, so we are back=0A>to using fuel straight from plastic jerry c ans. We use Shell premium =0A> which has been very clean, and in Ontario =0A>there is no ethanol in it=0A>=0A>=0A>Dave =0A>=0A>On 25-Jun-10, at 3:29 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:=0A>=0A>Hi Dave=0A>>most contamination gets in when fuel is added. Rust from =0A>> Jerry cans is not uncommon, also alg ae from old fuel. You really need =0A>> separate filters so that if one blocks you have a get down safely reserve. =0A>> 914s tend to be more of a problem because of the high flow =0A>> rate.=0A>>Graham=0A>>=0A>>=0A> >=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>http://www================ =======0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>face="courier new,courier">http://w ww.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0A>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/contribution =0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Eur opa-List=0A>ronics.com=0A>ww.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>href="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0A=0A=0A_ -======================== =============== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:28 AM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A Jeff(s) and Rough River goers, Thanks, I would like to be there this year(and would be happy to do some jerry can and beer runs), but time is in short supply, and currently spendably deprived, but I will attend starting one of these years. I just took 7 months off from the build to work on vehicles with years of neglect(conincided with the cold part of the year), so if that happens next year, I will have to steal my way down there somehow for the motivation and personal visiting. Too bad there are no current builders around the Portland, OR area (that I know of ). I think that I am all alone over here. Have fun down there, you guys. Have an extra beer on me! :-) Maybe someone could take some more wonderful shots. Those are motivating too. Best Regards, Greg do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised A ...and besides, we need somebody to ferry fuel cans and such... :) Jeff - Baby Blue do not archive On 6/25/2010 11:49 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > Hi Greg, > Thanks for the kind words but it did remind me to tell everyone > something I may have left out. YOU DON'T HAVE TO FLY IN TO ATTEND!! > > There isn't a better way for a builder, or future owner to stay > motivated than to see other Europa's and talk to other Europa owners / > builders in person. So please anyone that is in the process of > building or thinking about Europa ownership you need to come to Rough > River state park in KY. on the 17th & 18th. If you let me know we'll > add you to the blow list of people driving in. You can catch > international flights in to Louisville (Or should I say Louiavulle or > louieville) and the drive in a rental is an hour or so over to the > park. If you drive in you may be ask to bring a few gas cans and a few > cases of beer so please let us know. Your services are needed. > > Regards, > > Jeff R. > > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote: > >> Beautiful shots....makes me want to go build faster! >> do not archive >> >> >> Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in. >> Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In Troy & Donna Maynor >> - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o).. >> Jim & Lynne Puglise - Flying or Driving the motor home. >> Fred Kline.... All the way from California. >> John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa Bob Borger >> N914XL - Flying In from Texas Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the >> country and getting new cowl mods ready. >> Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in >> Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud! >> Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob. >> John Wigney - Flying in! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Left Base going into Rough River year before last. This is the >>> weather we're going to have! I'm hammering on the wood as I type. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Guys... Remember this loose formation. >>> >>> <3 in Formation.jpg> >>> >>> >>> >> > > * > > > * > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:47 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Gallery Album Missing From: "Troy Maynor" All, Never mind. I found it. It's under the gallery, "Flying Europas", right where I put in the first time. It's just in reverse order now after the move. No big thing. I need to move it to the new "gatherings folder". Troy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302572#302572 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:55:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised From: Robert Borger Jeff, You can add my wife Maureen to the list. And, FWIW, N914XL has been named Little Dragon Lady. Check six, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jun 24, 2010, at 10:24, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > Woops... Jim fell off my list... sorry Jim Bob!! > Now we're up to 11 Europa's flying in! ;o) > > > Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in. > Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In > Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o).. > Jim & Lynne Puglise - Flying or Driving the motor home. > Fred Kline.... All the way from California. > John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa > Bob Borger N914XL - Flying In from Texas > Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl mods ready. > Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in > Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud! > Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob. > John Wigney - Flying in! >> >> >> >> >> Left Base going into Rough River year before last. This is the weather we're going to have! I'm hammering on the wood as I type. >> >> >> >> >> >> Guys... Remember this loose formation. >> >> <3 in Formation.jpg> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:48 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwd: Rough River up-date #4 Revised Roger that! Jeff Roberts Eagleville Marketing Group 615-355-7575 Office 615-406-8651 Cell 615-534-1082 Fax On Jun 26, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > Jeff, > > You can add my wife Maureen to the list. > > And, FWIW, N914XL has been named Little Dragon Lady. > > Check six, > Bob Borger > Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 > http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 > Europa Flying! > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208 > Home: 940-497-2123 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 10:24, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > >> Woops... Jim fell off my list... sorry Jim Bob!! >> Now we're up to 11 Europa's flying in! ;o) >> >> >> Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in. >> Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In >> Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o).. >> Jim & Lynne Puglise - Flying or Driving the motor home. >> Fred Kline.... All the way from California. >> John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa >> Bob Borger N914XL - Flying In from Texas >> Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl >> mods ready. >> Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in >> Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud! >> Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob. >> John Wigney - Flying in! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Left Base going into Rough River year before last. This is the >>> weather we're going to have! I'm hammering on the wood as I type. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Guys... Remember this loose formation. >>> >>> <3 in Formation.jpg> >>> >>> >>> >> > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:27 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: Rough River Update #5 If you have any special plane names, wives names or N numbers I don't have on this list please send it to me direct. Actually if you have a picture of the bird I would like to feature one with each up-date. You may send that direct as well. I'll just have me a little fun with this list. Jeff Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in. Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o).. Jim & Lynne Puglise - Driving the air conditioned control tower, beer bar, meeting place/motor home. ;o) Fred Kline.... All the way from Orcas Island, WA John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa Bob & Maureen Borger N914XL Flying In from Texas in... Little Dragon Lady. Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl mods ready. Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud! Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob. John Wigney - Flying in! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:07 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: fuel contamination Graham, How true. I don't think Mr Funnel is even 120 microns. Ultralight news tested it at .005, which is about 120 microns but who knows. We are not labs. I have not been a fan of gascolators as I am in Florida, and have never seen water in a Poly tank from sweating, but I am sure it is possible. My fuel drains seem to work, and the filters supplied catch the crap and the float bowls, have always been clean ((ish) except for in line debris post filter I failed to clean once) and the filters allow me to switch tanks when the filter begins to clog (noted from the fuel pressure warning using my FP-5). A single gascolator, as you know, is a single point of failure, and many have installed two. Why not have two filters and a tank drains as the manual indicates. I thought that was pretty sound. Andy from Andair at Sun n Fun last year told me the same thing about the gascolator screen and we shared how to inspect (you can't except to disassemble it) and clean them. Since then I don't even consider a gascolator. This is a personal preference. Filters are clear to see in, easy to change, cheap to buy and good enough for me. A quick disconnect makes it a breeze to pull out and take to the bench and service without dripping all over the place. If I had a Marvel Schebler Carburetor I'd use a gascolator. You can drive a truck through the orifice. As for old Jerry Cans, cleanliness is next to Godliness, pay attention to where you get your fuel, Mister Funnel only is a catch for big stuff and water when refueling in the rain. Keep an eye on your filters, clean your tank annually, inspect, inspect, inspect, and throw your filters out every 25 hours along with the old oil and filter... Ground your aircraft and your Jerry Can. Those wool sweaters and plastic bed liners can generate quite a spark. More on fueling at Rough River. Thanks for your insight as always. Bud. ----- Original Message ----- From: GRAHAM SINGLETON To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:35 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Bud an English 914 tri gear had his Andair mini gascolator block. The rust from an old Jerry can passed thru the Mister Funnel he always uses. The mesh of the Andair is 70micron, Mister funnel 120 micron,(check that figure) Just one more obscure gotcha. Andair told me their problem was that Rotax specify 100micron and they can only source 70. Graham ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Bud Yerly To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, 25 June, 2010 23:34:57 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Karl, Dave and Graham, I use a Mister Funnel and very clean Jerry Cans. Our local Florida stations have ethanol now, and as an experiment am running it full time without incident so far. Ethanol cleans the tank very well. After the third tank of gas run through preflight I filled the filter. After 1 hour of flying time I noticed a slight fuel pressure drop and switched to the reserve and pressure returned. Clogged filter. Haven't had a problem since. The fuel filters stay clean, but I have noticed all but my post pump R9 fuel lines (Goodyear) are smelling like a gas leak. Next oil change, all the fuel lines are coming out. It seems that the inside of the older fuel injection lines (Discount Auto Parts) are swelling a bit as well. I have noticed the inside of the drain lines sloughing off a whiteish material and am concerned. I flushed my lines with denatured alcohol before installation but did not run a small cleaning cotton through them. I have not seen water or growth in my tanks or my long sitting fuel cans. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:41 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Dave and Graham, I am puzzled by all this fuss about fuel contamination. Why have I never heard about a car having this problem ? I have never noticed anything more than a spec of dust in the Andair gascolator. I also buy most fuel from new gas stations where the turnover is high, and pour it through a funnel with built-in sieve. And I keep a full tank through the winter months. Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: loboloda@execulink.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall material vs Canada "fireproof material" airworthiness requirement Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:42:22 -0400 To: europa-list@matronics.com Hi Graham, It was a 914. We have both tried using filter funnels while fueling, however the process is painfully slow, so we are back to using fuel straight from plastic jerry cans. We use Shell premium which has been very clean, and in Ontario there is no ethanol in it Dave On 25-Jun-10, at 3:29 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: Hi Dave most contamination gets in when fuel is added. Rust from Jerry cans is not uncommon, also algae from old fuel. You really need separate filters so that if one blocks you have a get down safely reserve. 914s tend to be more of a problem because of the high flow rate. Graham http://www===================== = face="courier new,courier">http://www.matronhref ="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.ma"nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://fo========= http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.