---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/07/10: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:37 AM - Re: Re: Pierburg Output Fuel Pressure (G-IANI) 2. 02:11 AM - Air-to-air comm radio (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 3. 03:48 AM - Re: Air-to-air comm radio (Frans Veldman) 4. 05:50 AM - Re: Arlington (WA) Fly-In (David DeFord) 5. 06:34 AM - Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod (flyingphil2) 6. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Pierburg Output Fuel Pressure (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 7. 06:49 AM - SV: Air-to-air comm radio (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 8. 07:00 AM - Rough River Up-Date #7 13 Europa's!! (JEFF ROBERTS) 9. 07:55 AM - Re: SV: Air-to-air comm radio (Frans Veldman) 10. 08:31 AM - Re: Arlington (WA) Fly-In (Jerry Rehn) 11. 08:57 AM - Re: Air-to-air comm radio (John Wighton) 12. 10:33 AM - Tri-gear conversion. (Kjell Skogeland) 13. 10:50 AM - Re: Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod (Richard Scanlan) 14. 11:22 AM - Re: Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod (david park) 15. 02:24 PM - Re: Arlington (WA) Fly-In (Fred Klein) 16. 09:06 PM - Tri Gear europa xs for training (albertakolbmk3) 17. 11:55 PM - Re: Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod (Mike Parkin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:17 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Pierburg Output Fuel Pressure Ron Where does the information that the parallel system blows over 2.8psi come from. From memory one of the books says it should be 1.8psi from either pump and 2.8 with them both on. This is exactly what my IES tells me is happening in G-IANI. We use this fact to check that both filters are not blocked at every engine start. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: 06 July 2010 20:32 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pierburg Output Fuel Pressure Hi Frans Just a few ideas: Differential pressure gauge may not be speaking absolute truth The fuel pressure regulator is adjustable, you could lower a pound You may have more of a restriction on the return line than is desirable, make sure fittings you are using are of large bore varient. supplied with my kit were both large and smaller bore (more restricting). also look for kinks or pinches. Rotax tells you max. restriction they want, worth measuring. Measure and or fix restriction before you adjust regulator. Fuel pressure needs to be higher than airbox pressure or it won't flow into carb bowl. Too high and it could overcome needle valve and leak. That said there are plenty of 914s flying with parallel fuel systems that blow way higher than 5 PSI and pilots sday seems fine. 6 PSI is not very high, but if it were i I would get it down a little if i could. Perhaps you can check gauge/sender calibration? Ron P. > > On 07/02/2010 03:57 PM, rparigoris wrote: > >> If you were to have such a circuit, you would want to have it turn on >> second pump when it falls below ~ 2 PSI differential pressure (fuel >> pressure going to carb less the airbox pressure). > > I agree you should have a differential fuel pressure switch. The Rotax > maintains a specific fuel pressure OVER the airbox pressure (which > varies with power setting and altitude). > >> not be the thing to do if you have parallel pumps because you can >> blow over the ~ 5 PSI differential. > > I have the serial pump layout, but with a full tank and both fuel pumps > on, the differential pressure raises to 6 psi while the engine is > running on low power. I was concerned that this higher fuel pressure > would choke the engine during the approach, when both fuel pumps are on > and the power setting is low, but I have not experienced any problems > with it. > Yet I would like to know whether this is normal. During flight, with one > pump on, the differential pressure is always around 4.5, regardless of > power setting. Interestingly, the fuel pump connected to the Andair > gascolator provides a lower pressure than the fuel pump connected to the > disposable fuel filter. > > Frans > > > --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:02 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Air-to-air comm radio Just returned from a very interesting experience in flying from Norway to Deauville in Normandy in company with LN-STE, I have concluded that a second VHF radio will be on top of my list of winter projects. We missed a good means of communicating between us when the weather deteriorated (as forecasted), or just for the feeling of companionship. We tried hand-held Icoms, but they were far too weak. We also experienced some intermittent difficulties in communicating with the air traffic controllers which we believe was due to the non-omnidirectional characteristics of the Archer tape antenna in the fin. Finally, to fly between Luxemburg and the Normandy coast below 5000 ft MSL (no Mode S) with a sudden loss of communication would not have been nice. I am therefore interested in learning what recommendations/experience others may have with respect to: - Really small, yet fully-fledged VHF radio - Fitting a VHF whip antenna inside the fuselage - Connecting a second radio to the headset - I suppose parallel inputs/outputs is all that is required, with a separate PTT push button for the extra radio far away from the standard radio PTT (to avoid mixing them up) will work? Svein LN-SKJ (what a great touring aircraft the Europa is!!!!) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:05 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air-to-air comm radio On 07/07/2010 10:15 AM, Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: > Just returned from a very interesting experience in flying from Norway Well, I just returned from a very interesting experience in flying IN Norway. ;-) For any of those interested in a nice flying vacation, I can highly recommend Norway! Beautifull country, nice airfields, nice and helpfull people everywhere, and they all speak English too. > Deauville in Normandy in company with LN-STE, I have concluded that a second > VHF radio will be on top of my list of winter projects. I have a Garmin SL-30, and it has two channels with the possibility to monitor the standby frequency. The SL-40 model has that too. We used in heavily when flying into Voss. For the other readers: This is an airfield at sea level, surrounded by huge Fjords of 5000 feet on all sides. This by itself is a challenge to get in. In addition there was heavy para activity on the field, two big twin-engine airplanes with reversible props where taking up the parachutists to FL125, and they came in so steep that they landed each time before the parachutists they dropped where down. This made circling above the field a non-possibility. So we had the field with the para droppers on one channel, and the regional radar service on the other one, with both talking to us, and keeping us informed where everyone was. Creeping over the trees we could safely side slip the Europa in. > We also experienced some intermittent difficulties in communicating with the > air traffic controllers which we believe was due to the non-omnidirectional > characteristics of the Archer tape antenna in the fin. I have said it before, and will repeat it here: there is no antenna that can improve upon the standard Europa antenna in the fin. It is a half wave dipole, with an omnidirectional pattern. You can not get any gain over that without compromising the omnidirectional pattern, just as that you can't get gain from any light bulb without creating shadows in other directions. The antenna in the fin has proved that we always were able to communicate as far as the "line of sight" would allow us to. In any direction. > - Fitting a VHF whip antenna inside the fuselage I would not recommend using two separate VHF radio's. The Europa is too small to allow you to use two separate VHF antenna's without creating interference between them. It will create all kinds of havoc, spoil your radiation pattern, and likely create radio interference. > - Connecting a second radio to the headset - I suppose parallel > inputs/outputs is all that is required, with a separate PTT push button for > the extra radio far away from the standard radio PTT (to avoid mixing them > up) will work? This idea is also likely to give troubles as well. Mismatches in impedances between mic-inputs, and if you start transmitting on one radio, the other, still receiving radio will probably scream for mercy, sending out audible distress signals over the headset and mic-line. It is best to buy a radio with two channels, where you can monitor into the standby-channel. Then you have just one antenna, one mic-input, one PTT button, etc. It will automatically mute the standby-channel while transmitting, and allow you to toggle instantly to a new primary frequency. > (what a great touring aircraft the Europa is!!!!) I fully agree! Frans ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:45 AM PST US From: "David DeFord" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Arlington (WA) Fly-In > > Can any Europas be expected to show up at the Arlington WA Fly-In > (July 7-11)?? > > Fred Terry Seaver and I will be there in N135TD Friday morning through Sunday morning. We may park in GA parking, rather than homebuilt parking, to be with a friend in a Cessna 150. Dave DeFord N135TD ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:11 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod From: "flyingphil2" Hi, I'm planning on doing the Europa Club Fuel Capacitance mod which involves having 2 probes and senders fitted to the tank between the headrests with an output to a dual gauge readout. Has anyone who has done this used the Westach probes and gauge? Thanks, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304022#304022 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Pierburg Output Fuel Pressure From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Ian My statement was based on Europas comment when they implimented series with bypass and offering a differential gauge that having parallel pumps running can overwhelm fuel pressure regulators ability to get fuel out of its exiting orifice and blow above high side of 5PSI. John Hurst also mentioned parallel with both pumps running would go above 5 PSI. (I purchased my UMA gauge from him). Through the years I either read or talked to folks that the same was mentioned. Some folks said they ran 2 parallel pumps for take off and landings without problems. Running parallel increases flow when second pump is turned on but pressure is about the same. Running second pump in series increases flow only a slight bit but can increase pressure. I tested my series with bypassset up on bench and when challenged with restriction on intake or output second pump helps a lot: http://contrails.free.fr/engine_914_fuel_syst_test_en.php Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:22 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: SV: Europa-List: Air-to-air comm radio Frans, Glad you enjoyed flying in Norway, and I understand that your encounter with the annual Voss Extreme Week was rather challenging! One of the parachute jump planes was LN-JMP, I assume, which normally is stationed at my summer base, ENJB. It's a DHC-6-200 Twin Otter, manufactured in 1968. It needs shorter runway to lift off with a full load of parachutists then I need with my Europa (now, what does that say about my weight?!), and even less for landing. Thank you very much for your detailed reply. I will check further into this matter based on what you wrote (and welcome others on this forum to chime in). I'd hate to replace the Garmin 250XL I now have, because it has a nice satnav built into it as a standby to my Garmin 496. Right now, I have two comments: - The Archer antenna is not omnidirectional for reception, I think. On a different flight down to Cannes earlier this summer, I called up Lyon about 35 NM out. I could barely hear their reply heading straight for them, but when changing heading 30 degrees I received at about 3. Closer in, all was well. Same thing flying towards Denmark on another occasion, they heard me 5 but I could not copy their reply. - One set with one main and one secondary receiving frequency solves the air-to-air (and ATIS, etc), but not the spare radio issue. Maybe with today's technology a radio from one of the major suppliers simply does not fail?? Anyone with any experience here?? When I took my PPL, the Cessna 172 had IFR equipment with a two-stack Bendix comm system integrated in such a way that you could use both radios for simultaneous reception but only one (selectable) for transmitting, and you could switch either one on/off. Guess something like that is very expensive. Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:41 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: Rough River Up-Date #7 13 Europa's!! Hey guys we just had two more Europa's report in that they are flying into Rough River. Looks like this year will be the place to be if you fly or are building a Europa. If your one of the builders there isn't a better way to energizer your project and get new Ideas than a fly-in of the same birds. Jeff Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in. Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o).. Jim & Lynne Puglise - Driving the air conditioned control tower, beer bar, meeting place/motor home. ;o) Fred Kline.... All the way from Orcas Island, WA John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa Bob & Maureen Borger N914XL Flying In from Texas in... Little Dragon Lady. Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl mods ready. Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud! Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob. John Wigney - Flying in! Bob Lindsay - Flying in N77EU Turbo Toy from Coronado California. Jerry Hope - Flying in his tri-gear. More info to follow. Kevin ?? - Flying in N211KA all the way from Bishop CA. More info to follow. USA ANNUAL ROUGH RIVER KY FLY IN Two sexy planes. One Jabaru powered & the other 912. More to talk over at Rough River! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:20 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Air-to-air comm radio On 07/07/2010 03:48 PM, Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: > Glad you enjoyed flying in Norway, and I understand that your encounter with > the annual Voss Extreme Week was rather challenging! We would normally have circled around the field at a safe altitude, to determine what would be the best path down the Fjords, but the sky was filled with para's, ATC was a bit nervous about our presence there, so we had to approach by GPS with the field out of sight most of the time. > One of the parachute > jump planes was LN-JMP, I assume, No, one was a German registered plane, the other one an Italic registered plane. The German one was a twin engine, the Italic one was a huge single engine. That one landed extremely short, using its reversible prop, loaded up the para's, and didn't even bother to taxi back to the beginning of the runway but took off right where it stopped after landing. This went on and on. It was quite a fascinating sight. We just stayed there for a couple of hours, made a tour over the Fjords, as the weather in that area was only suitable for us for just one day. Most of the time we stayed at Lunde and made a few trips from there. We hoped to be able to travel further up North, but rain kept creeping in all the time at the North. Weather was great in Lunde though. > - One set with one main and one secondary receiving frequency solves the > air-to-air (and ATIS, etc), but not the spare radio issue. That's right. I have a handheld radio for that, with a converter to connect it to the headset, just for emergencies. I assume that the main radio will not likely fail though. Frans ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:14 AM PST US From: Jerry Rehn Subject: Re: Europa-List: Arlington (WA) Fly-In Fred I plan on being there Friday. Jerry 914 Mono Sent from Iphone On Jul 6, 2010, at 5:45 PM, Fred Klein wrote: > > Can any Europas be expected to show up at the Arlington WA Fly-In > (July 7-11)?? > > Fred > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:36 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Air-to-air comm radio From: "John Wighton" I have had some recent concerns about radio transmission quality (MicroAir 760 using standard fin mounted antenna). The reception is 5/5, but transmission on the ground is weak (especially after start up and in hot environmental conditions (thats is >18 deg C in the UK). I am frequently asked to repeat Tx and told that strength is 5/5/ but readability is 2/5 or worse. In the air things are better but Tx readability reduces in hot weather. Yesterday it was around 23 degC, l found changing track 30 deg allowed ATC to hear my Tx better. I am switching to an SL30 - partially because the MicroAir space is being used for a Trig TT21 and also because l want to monitor the 2nd freq. Hopefully the Tx problem will go away with a new radio, or am l hoping to luck? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304042#304042 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:06 AM PST US From: "Kjell Skogeland" Subject: Europa-List: Tri-gear conversion. Hello everyone I am planning to do a Tri-gear of my Monowheel and now I'm looking for a kit or compenents. I'm living in Sweden. SE-XRT Kjell Skogeland Have a nice Summer ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:01 AM PST US From: "Richard Scanlan" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod Yep, good mod to do. I used the Westach probes but connected to a Dynon 180. You can buy them from Pete Smoothy at Airworld but they are not genuine Westach and look identical but work in a different way so you will need to use the gauges provided. This problem took me some time to work out till I discovered only the genuine item would work with the Dynon. If you also incorporate a Floscan you can dispense with the sight tube. Rich G-CEIW -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyingphil2 Sent: 07 July 2010 14:33 Subject: Europa-List: Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod Hi, I'm planning on doing the Europa Club Fuel Capacitance mod which involves having 2 probes and senders fitted to the tank between the headrests with an output to a dual gauge readout. Has anyone who has done this used the Westach probes and gauge? Thanks, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304022#304022 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:36:00 -- We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:45 AM PST US From: david park Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod Rich=2C "If you also incorporate a Floscan you can dispense with the sight tube". Thats interesting Iwould like to get rid of all fuel from the cockpit! Is i t an approved Mod? Dave G-LDVO > From: avgashead@btinternet.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod > Date: Wed=2C 7 Jul 2010 18:49:37 +0100 > t.com> > > Yep=2C good mod to do. I used the Westach probes but connected to a Dynon 180. > You can buy them from Pete Smoothy at Airworld but they are not genuine > Westach and look identical but work in a different way so you will need t o > use the gauges provided. This problem took me some time to work out till I > discovered only the genuine item would work with the Dynon. If you also > incorporate a Floscan you can dispense with the sight tube. > > Rich > > G-CEIW > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flyingphil2 > Sent: 07 July 2010 14:33 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod > > > Hi=2C > > I'm planning on doing the Europa Club Fuel Capacitance mod which involves > having 2 probes and senders fitted to the tank between the headrests with an > output to a dual gauge readout. > > Has anyone who has done this used the Westach probes and gauge? > > Thanks=2C > > Phil > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304022#304022 > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 06:36:00 > > > -- > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > > The Professional version does not have this message > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:47 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Arlington (WA) Fly-In On Jul 7, 2010, at 5:49 AM, David DeFord wrote: > Terry Seaver and I will be there in N135TD Friday morning through > Sunday > morning. Dave...would love to meet you and Terry and see that bird I've read so much about...can you give me a contact cell phone #?...I'm trying to arrange a visit to the fly-in on Friday, but I have to be back in Eastsound Friday evening. If I don't make it, consider stopping by Eastsound on your way home, though it would mean heading north (just north of the Whidbey Island air space), flying over the San Juan islands can be kinda special on a sunny day! Fred ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:40 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Tri Gear europa xs for training From: "albertakolbmk3" Hi to all, I'm new here and have been really looking into the europa. After watching the kitplanes video (awesome) I started gathering info on this plane. Could a person use the europa xs tri-gear to obtain his pilots license. I have 35 hours between a c152, c172 and kolb mk3 ultralight. I really had my mind set on the rv6/6a but after reading up on the europa and it's great fuel economy/performance/useful load I'm unsure now. Are many people using the 1450lbs gross? What is the cockpit width? I'm 6' and 220 lbs. I'm not sure how I feel about composites either. I'm looking at one with a 914. BTW, I'm from central alberta, canada and if there is anyone flying one that is within driving range please let me know, I would love to see it in person and try it on for size. Thanks, Tony -------- Tony B. Kolb MKIII C Rotax 582 C Gearbox 3.00:1 WD 66" 3 Blade Prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304132#304132 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:50 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Club - Fuel Capacitance Guage Mod >>"If you also incorporate a Floscan you can dispense with the sight tube". >>Thats interesting Iwould like to get rid of all fuel from the cockpit! Is it an approved Mod? >>Dave >>G-LDVO Dave, My monowheel was PFA approved with the dual capacitance probe/indicator and no fuel sighting tube at all. The EI fuel flow system was fitted much later. 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