Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: Sun Shades (Kingsley Hurst)
2. 05:33 AM - Re: Tri Gear europa xs for training (albertakolbmk3)
3. 07:06 AM - Re Sun Shades (John Wigney)
4. 01:04 PM - Re: Re Sun Shades (Steven Pitt)
5. 03:56 PM - Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine (varoum55)
6. 03:56 PM - Re: Cooling issues, once again! (JR Gowing)
7. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: Sun Shades (Tony Renshaw)
8. 10:57 PM - Re: Cooling issues, once again! (Tony Renshaw)
Message 1
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> I saw a neat installation in Dave DeFord & Terry Seaver's long winged
> mono...
So where are your photos Fred ? I wanna see em !
Cheers
Kingsley
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Tri Gear europa xs for training |
Hi Guys,
Sorry about the email problem. We just moved so we had to change service providers
and of course email. Anyways, here is my new email,
albertaflyer(at)gmail.com
Any and all info is greatly appreciated.
I guess my biggest concern is that I want to be able to purchase an aircraft that
I can afford to fly, yet still have all the other traits I'm looking for. The
europa seems to fit the bill pretty well.
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304386#304386
Message 3
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Hi Jim & Heather,
I use Sporty's 'slap on' shades see
http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/9637 . I have two mounted in each
overhead section and they have always held on without problem.
Look forward to seeing you at Oshkosh. I plan to arrive on Wednesday.
Cheers, John
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
Subject: Europa-List: Sun Shades
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net>
Summer has arrived in Michigan and the sun in the cockpit these days is intense!
We have static cling sun shades that stick to the windows but they tend to
fall down, especially from overhead. What have others done to get shade in the
cockpit while flying?
Jim & Heather
N241BW
Message 4
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John et al,
I will be visiting Oshkosh for the first time this year, arriving on
Wednesday evening by car and staying on site for three days.
What are the arrangements for meeting up with other Europa owners.
Regards
Steve Pitt
G-SMDH trigear
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wigney" <johnwigney@windstream.net>
<europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 3:05 PM
Subject: Re Europa-List: Sun Shades
>
> Hi Jim & Heather,
>
> I use Sporty's 'slap on' shades see
> http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/9637 . I have two mounted in each
> overhead section and they have always held on without problem.
>
> Look forward to seeing you at Oshkosh. I plan to arrive on Wednesday.
>
> Cheers, John
>
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE
>
> Subject: Europa-List: Sun Shades
> From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net>
> Summer has arrived in Michigan and the sun in the cockpit these days is
> intense!
> We have static cling sun shades that stick to the windows but they tend to
> fall down, especially from overhead. What have others done to get shade
> in the
> cockpit while flying?
> Jim & Heather
> N241BW
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine |
Hi Malcolm,
This is my first post. I have been learning about building an A/C for the past
5 years. An Europa XS monowheel with an ULPower engine would suit me nicely.
I have found this link for the ULPower on Yahoo group discussion http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UL-Power-Aero-Engines/?m=1
The ULPower web site in the FAQ is saying this about using the Jabiru 2200 engine
mount:
http://www.ulpower.com/engines/faq/jabiru-mount.html
As for the fuel comsuption, this link is talking about it. http://www.hyperflite.co.uk/fuel-consumption.html
And also this link as well: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YO04TFG9vvROTiXa76QmmY4JBK8Q5aMmzVJ2UsIoy7g6Fx74TkWHDnDnb0Jo-LLdiT9KHAvAhmRy0-yyqRjbqp-qXOEmOpg/Twister%20article%20LA%20Mag%20Dec%202009.pdf
Is the engine mount from Jabiru good for the ULPower 260i engine?
Marc
Montral
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304434#304434
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling issues, once again! |
Frans
Just back from holiday in US and seen your list of problems.
Have you seen the Tropical Chin Intake?
I have just fitted one to my 912S installation, still a long way from
flying.
It forms a sharp edged entry to the large rectangular inlet with a much
smaller eliptical entry formed from aluminium.
I think I downloaded it from the Europa Club but Popular Flying Assn
mentioned at the top of page 1.
Frustration is a killer!
Best Wishes
JR Gowing Kit 327 in Oz
----- Original Message -----
From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <Jeff@rmmm.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 3:52 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling issues, once again!
>
> Frans,
> I have the 912 set up so I might not know what I'l talking about but...
> I had the very same issues for the first 150 hours. Every time it got
> hot I was in trouble with temps at their limit. I made the shroud for
> over the cylinders. I lowered the oil radiator 2 inches behind the
> water, I sealed everything, I made new inlets in the upper cowl, and
> still didn't get it solved completely. I then finally lowered the
> metal duct down an inch or so, so the bottom radiator reached the
> lower cowl without the sealant and bam. My temps dropped 30 to 40
> degrees. I believe two things helped in this. The radiators we're
> getting more air but the big thing was by lowering the duct it opened
> the bottom for escaping air. Not sure if this all applies to you but
> if you have the duct up to high close to the muff all you need to do
> is lower it. You'l be needing to ad a flap in colder days to get
> things in the proper temp range.
> By the way the shroud did even the cylinder temps out but it didn't do
> much to cool the water or oil.
>
> Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
>
>
> On Jun 5, 2010, at 5:28 AM, Frans Veldman wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> Although my initial cooling issues have been improved upon, I'm not
>> satisfied at all with the cooling of my 914.
>>
>> Now, with increasing ambient temperatures, I have to severely limit my
>> climb outs. Cruising is ok. During climb, both the water temperature
>> and
>> oil temperature approach the red line, more or less at the same time.
>> Water temperature recovers faster than the oil temperature after I
>> power
>> down. At this time I can barely make it to circuit height and then
>> have
>> to level off, build more speed, and then limit my climb with 200 ft/
>> min
>> until I'm in cooler air. The engine has now 32 hours on it, so it
>> might
>> still improve somewhat further, but I don't expect miracles from that.
>>
>> I had to do something.
>> First I made an additional exit in the cowling, under the turbo,
>> hoping
>> to provide more airflow. Whether the airflow in the cowling improved I
>> don't know, but it had zero effect on the water and oil temperatures.
>>
>> Temperatures inside the cowling seem to be ok anyway, no discoloured
>> spark plug indicator labels (still bright yellow), no melted tie-
>> wraps, etc.
>>
>> My conclusion was that the problem is not in cooling of the cowling,
>> but
>> somewhere in the efficiency of the radiators.
>>
>> So then I built a new radiator inlet, somewhat larger than previous
>> one,
>> with a lip to avoid digesting the boundary layer and making sure the
>> inlet receives ram air, angled straight into the airflow, and with a
>> diffuser for which I copied a profile out of a famous book.
>>
>> It was no improvement over my "free style" sleeker inlet and diffuser.
>> None. Very frustrating, as I ruined my nicely shaped and painted
>> original inlet for this.
>>
>> I need to do something, but to avoid ruining again something in
>> order to
>> solve this problem, I need to hear some experiences:
>>
>> 1) A shroud over the cylinders. I don't have it, but instead I have
>> two
>> naca ducts in the upper cowling, curved down to release air aimed at
>> the
>> cylinders.
>> Has anyone ever tried whether the Rotax shroud (or home made shroud)
>> makes any difference? Sure, it will cool the cylinders, but does it
>> have
>> any effect over the water temperature and/or oil temperature? Or is
>> this
>> again going to be a loss in time and effort?
>>
>> 2) In my setup the oil cooler receives exit air from the water
>> cooler. I
>> know there is a "trick" mentioned in the build manual for hot climates
>> to lower the oil radiator 2 inches to receive cold air instead of warm
>> air, but I didn't opt for this as I don't consider our climate as
>> extremely warm, and in winter the oild could actually get too cold.
>> Has anyone tried both options, and did it make much difference? Also,
>> did it have any influence over the water temperature? Relocating the
>> oil
>> radiator will be a large project, and I fear that after that I will
>> still have to limit my climb outs to avoid the water from boiling.
>>
>> Yesterday on the airfield I took a closer look at the Rotax 914
>> equipped
>> Dimona, which is used by the glider club to tow all day long gliders,
>> with full power at 50 knots, in all ambient temperatures. They never
>> have cooling problems.
>>
>> What I saw was shocking. The water radiator is fully exposed to the
>> airstream, no diffuser whatsoever, it is just part of the cowling,
>> as if
>> someone took out some skin of the cowling and fitted the radiator in
>> the
>> resulting hole. The oil radiator is mounted in an angle behind a naca
>> duct (I was taught that a naca duct does not provide ram air and
>> shouldn't be used for cooling a radiator?). Both radiators just dump
>> the
>> warm air inside the cowling! It can't be easier than that.
>> Then, at the bottom, the Dimona has a cowl flap which just opens the
>> cowling to dump *all* air overboard. If it is closed, all radiators,
>> as
>> well as all cowling ventilation, is blocked.
>> How can this system, which looks less sophisticated than our system,
>> while violating all rules and knowledge, work so well?
>>
>> Anyway. At the moment I'm grounded, can't fly like this, and after
>> spending a week trying to improve things with zero effect, I'm out of
>> options and I'm inclined to leave the airplane in the hangar and find
>> another hobby. :-(
>>
>> Seriously, what should I do?
>>
>> Frans
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 7
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K,
About Gatton, if I pay $220K for land, there might be something to say I should
reconsider the homes up for sale. The nuts and bolts fellow wanted $580K , or
maybe it was $630K. Can't remember, but, what is the quote on your place again?
TR
On 10/07/2010, at 8:46 PM, "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@redzone.com.au> wrote:
>
>> I saw a neat installation in Dave DeFord & Terry Seaver's long winged mono...
>
> So where are your photos Fred ? I wanna see em !
>
> Cheers
> Kingsley
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling issues, once again! |
Hey bob,
Glad to hear you r home. How was
The trip? Did u miss the Europa?
Reg
TR
On 10/07/2010, at 6:08 PM, "JR Gowing" <jrgowing@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> Frans
>
> Just back from holiday in US and seen your list of problems.
>
> Have you seen the Tropical Chin Intake?
>
> I have just fitted one to my 912S installation, still a long way from flying.
>
> It forms a sharp edged entry to the large rectangular inlet with a much smaller
eliptical entry formed from aluminium.
> I think I downloaded it from the Europa Club but Popular Flying Assn mentioned
at the top of page 1.
>
> Frustration is a killer!
> Best Wishes
> JR Gowing Kit 327 in Oz
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <Jeff@rmmm.net>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 3:52 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling issues, once again!
>
>
>>
>> Frans,
>> I have the 912 set up so I might not know what I'l talking about but...
>> I had the very same issues for the first 150 hours. Every time it got
>> hot I was in trouble with temps at their limit. I made the shroud for
>> over the cylinders. I lowered the oil radiator 2 inches behind the
>> water, I sealed everything, I made new inlets in the upper cowl, and
>> still didn't get it solved completely. I then finally lowered the
>> metal duct down an inch or so, so the bottom radiator reached the
>> lower cowl without the sealant and bam. My temps dropped 30 to 40
>> degrees. I believe two things helped in this. The radiators we're
>> getting more air but the big thing was by lowering the duct it opened
>> the bottom for escaping air. Not sure if this all applies to you but
>> if you have the duct up to high close to the muff all you need to do
>> is lower it. You'l be needing to ad a flap in colder days to get
>> things in the proper temp range.
>> By the way the shroud did even the cylinder temps out but it didn't do
>> much to cool the water or oil.
>>
>> Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 5:28 AM, Frans Veldman wrote:
>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> Gentlemen,
>>>
>>> Although my initial cooling issues have been improved upon, I'm not
>>> satisfied at all with the cooling of my 914.
>>>
>>> Now, with increasing ambient temperatures, I have to severely limit my
>>> climb outs. Cruising is ok. During climb, both the water temperature
>>> and
>>> oil temperature approach the red line, more or less at the same time.
>>> Water temperature recovers faster than the oil temperature after I
>>> power
>>> down. At this time I can barely make it to circuit height and then
>>> have
>>> to level off, build more speed, and then limit my climb with 200 ft/
>>> min
>>> until I'm in cooler air. The engine has now 32 hours on it, so it
>>> might
>>> still improve somewhat further, but I don't expect miracles from that.
>>>
>>> I had to do something.
>>> First I made an additional exit in the cowling, under the turbo,
>>> hoping
>>> to provide more airflow. Whether the airflow in the cowling improved I
>>> don't know, but it had zero effect on the water and oil temperatures.
>>>
>>> Temperatures inside the cowling seem to be ok anyway, no discoloured
>>> spark plug indicator labels (still bright yellow), no melted tie-
>>> wraps, etc.
>>>
>>> My conclusion was that the problem is not in cooling of the cowling,
>>> but
>>> somewhere in the efficiency of the radiators.
>>>
>>> So then I built a new radiator inlet, somewhat larger than previous
>>> one,
>>> with a lip to avoid digesting the boundary layer and making sure the
>>> inlet receives ram air, angled straight into the airflow, and with a
>>> diffuser for which I copied a profile out of a famous book.
>>>
>>> It was no improvement over my "free style" sleeker inlet and diffuser.
>>> None. Very frustrating, as I ruined my nicely shaped and painted
>>> original inlet for this.
>>>
>>> I need to do something, but to avoid ruining again something in
>>> order to
>>> solve this problem, I need to hear some experiences:
>>>
>>> 1) A shroud over the cylinders. I don't have it, but instead I have
>>> two
>>> naca ducts in the upper cowling, curved down to release air aimed at
>>> the
>>> cylinders.
>>> Has anyone ever tried whether the Rotax shroud (or home made shroud)
>>> makes any difference? Sure, it will cool the cylinders, but does it
>>> have
>>> any effect over the water temperature and/or oil temperature? Or is
>>> this
>>> again going to be a loss in time and effort?
>>>
>>> 2) In my setup the oil cooler receives exit air from the water
>>> cooler. I
>>> know there is a "trick" mentioned in the build manual for hot climates
>>> to lower the oil radiator 2 inches to receive cold air instead of warm
>>> air, but I didn't opt for this as I don't consider our climate as
>>> extremely warm, and in winter the oild could actually get too cold.
>>> Has anyone tried both options, and did it make much difference? Also,
>>> did it have any influence over the water temperature? Relocating the
>>> oil
>>> radiator will be a large project, and I fear that after that I will
>>> still have to limit my climb outs to avoid the water from boiling.
>>>
>>> Yesterday on the airfield I took a closer look at the Rotax 914
>>> equipped
>>> Dimona, which is used by the glider club to tow all day long gliders,
>>> with full power at 50 knots, in all ambient temperatures. They never
>>> have cooling problems.
>>>
>>> What I saw was shocking. The water radiator is fully exposed to the
>>> airstream, no diffuser whatsoever, it is just part of the cowling,
>>> as if
>>> someone took out some skin of the cowling and fitted the radiator in
>>> the
>>> resulting hole. The oil radiator is mounted in an angle behind a naca
>>> duct (I was taught that a naca duct does not provide ram air and
>>> shouldn't be used for cooling a radiator?). Both radiators just dump
>>> the
>>> warm air inside the cowling! It can't be easier than that.
>>> Then, at the bottom, the Dimona has a cowl flap which just opens the
>>> cowling to dump *all* air overboard. If it is closed, all radiators,
>>> as
>>> well as all cowling ventilation, is blocked.
>>> How can this system, which looks less sophisticated than our system,
>>> while violating all rules and knowledge, work so well?
>>>
>>> Anyway. At the moment I'm grounded, can't fly like this, and after
>>> spending a week trying to improve things with zero effect, I'm out of
>>> options and I'm inclined to leave the airplane in the hangar and find
>>> another hobby. :-(
>>>
>>> Seriously, what should I do?
>>>
>>> Frans
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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