---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/14/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:07 AM - Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine (John Wighton) 2. 03:38 AM - Re: Check your Landing Gear Retraction Lever Strut (Mod 51) (Roger Mills) 3. 05:53 AM - Mod 51 (klaus dietrich) 4. 09:45 AM - Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables (Greg Fuchs) 5. 10:34 AM - Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables (glenn crowder) 6. 11:02 AM - Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables (G-IANI) 7. 11:41 AM - Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables (Troy Maynor) 8. 11:53 AM - Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 9. 12:41 PM - Euro Fly In, the french RSA rally, starts next wednesday. (Guerner Remi) 10. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables (Mike Parkin) 11. 04:24 PM - Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables (Greg Fuchs) 12. 08:25 PM - Re: Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables (ward.t@xtra.co.nz) 13. 10:15 PM - Re: Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables (Greg Fuchs) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:51 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Anyone considered a ULPOWER UL260i engine From: "John Wighton" In response to Mark's post, l have experience of submitting Mods to the LAA, especially structural and powerplant installations. I have various delegated authority signatures, inc active work as a CVE for submissions to the UK CAA and major suppliers to the Aerospace world. The UL260i is used by Lambert Aircraft in their M106 and M108 planes. I have a good relationship with them, l am sure Filip will divulge some real-world issues and running costs. We recently did a comparison against the Rotax 912ULS for a foreign client - l was very surprised by the relative operational merits of the UL260i. If Mark is willing to fulfil: > As far as firewall forward is concerned, UL Power via, Galaxy Microlights, can supply an engine mount for the Europa but I will need some data to be able to design, build, test and supply the mount ready to fit. I am also looking into the cowling's for the UL260i installation too, but I will need an aircraft with and engine fitted to be able to get the best design. It is normal for us to be able to clear a new engine mount/installation by stress analysis. This reduces the onus on tests. We do this using FE tools and hand calcs showing compliance to the chosen regs. Depending on whether Galaxy wishes to retain IPR for the mount or not we could introduce it as a Standard Mod (with Ian Rickard doing his stuff from the Europa Club). This is subject to discussion. Technically the stress analysis requirement is clear, we already have a cockpit and mount FE model (used for the Flyer Mag Europa with BRS and RV style taildragger gear) which is validated. A mount for the UL engine would be drawn up and evaluated/optimised. Some extrapolation of loads based on potential prop/hub combinations would be made (to avoid additional incremental mods later on). We consider the inertial, gyroscopic and torsional loading. Influence on whole aircraft inertias should be minimal provided the mass/CG is not too different. We do not yet have a CAD model of the standard cowl, this is desirable as a clash analysis (using a CAD engine/installation) can be done which will enable clearances to be defined. A CAD model could be generated quickly using some 3D scanning equipment and any standard Europa (any member have access to this?). This would be a good opportunity to optimise the inlet/outlet areas (to prevent the same situation as with the XS). It is s shame that Swift is too busy to assist with this task. Speaking to their guys at AeroExpo it is evident that a lot of things are happening in the background. As with most things in this world, supply and demand dictate progress. Regards JW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304738#304738 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:22 AM PST US From: "Roger Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Check your Landing Gear Retraction Lever Strut (Mod 51) In my experience the danger is when you trailer the aircraft on a belly dolly with the Monowheel locked in the retracted position (although flying through prolonged choppy turbulence at 120kt might not be far behind?). The forces applied by the heavy weight of the wheel/tyre and long moment of the undercarriage arm when driving over potholes and other road surface problems are significant. Before fitting the strut I experienced significant distortion and elongation of the three holes through using a trailer with the wheel fully retracted just once and had to fabricate a new landing gear lever. I hoped the strut would fix the weakness but it's conceivable that the forces involved in rough/turbulent air flight might elongate the bottom hole - will have to disassemble and examine now. Roger Mills G-BVUV ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:52 AM PST US From: klaus dietrich Subject: Europa-List: Mod 51 Hi Bud, thanks for your message! Attached the photos. the material I used was an L-shaped alu angle which I bought at the local "Home Depot" store. material thickness: 1,5 mm; L-profile: 20 mm x 8 mm Jean Philippe Neel and Davis Joyce reported very similar problems: Jean Philippe's mail: / "I had the same problem on that lever strut. I change it in September 2009 at 1117h and 11 years. The previous profile was Alu 1.5 mm thick and I change for a stronger one, always in Alu but 2.5 mm thick.I tried to to have holes with minimum play./ / I found also a bush partially broken on the shock absorber bottom plate. I change it for a new one./ /Jean Philippe" / Thanks for your support! All the best, Klaus -- Oracle Klaus Dietrich Phone: +43 1 33 777 825 | | Oracle Financing, EMEA ORACLE Austria | IZD Tower, Wagramer Strasse 17-19 | 1223 Vienna Green Oracle Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:27 AM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: Europa-List: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables For those out there that implemented mod 70 (tailplane mass-balance arm replacement) and hacked out the cables, how is it going? While flying through steep banks or turbulence, can you feel (through the stick) the mass-balance weights thumping up against the guide strips? Maybe it can be felt as a slight resistance to fore/aft stick movement? Due to the very small clearance between the weights and the strips, and the tendency for the arm to wiggle laterally, this is sure to be happening. I built the 'H' support with precision, as if going to use of the guide strips, but am expecting to switch over to the cables if the tufnol method did not perfectly satisfy me in the end. Part of the satisfaction is in how it works in flight. I cannot find anyone weighing in on this yet.. The turnbuckles and nicopress clamps have been sitting in a box gathering dust, and they would like to know when they are to do their part. Greg Fuchs A050 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:11 AM PST US From: glenn crowder Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables I installed the Tufnol strips and with engine and wind noise in flight pl us headsets I cannot hear or feel anything rubbing anywhere. Seems to be a effective and lightw eight solution to me! Glenn From: gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net Subject: Europa-List: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables For those out there that implemented mod 70 (tailplane mass-balance arm rep lacement) and hacked out the cables=2C how is it going? While flying throug h steep banks or turbulence=2C can you feel (through the stick) the mass-ba lance weights thumping up against the guide strips? Maybe it can be felt as a slight resistance to fore/aft stick movement? Due to the very small clea rance between the weights and the strips=2C and the tendency for the arm to wiggle laterally=2C this is sure to be happening. I built the 'H' support with precision=2C as if going to use of the guide s trips=2C but am expecting to switch over to the cables if the tufnol method did not perfectly satisfy me in the end. Part of the satisfaction is in ho w it works in flight. I cannot find anyone weighing in on this yet.. The turnbuckles and nicopress clamps have been sitting in a box gathering d ust=2C and they would like to know when they are to do their part. Greg Fuchs A050 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:22 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables Greg We only had some 10 hours on G-IANI before Mod 70 was installed so it is difficult to compare before and after. G-IRON was completed with Mod 70 installed. What I can say is that I have never noticed sticking or banging effects that you can feel through the stick. Neither has a highly experienced test pilot who did the flight testing for Mod 64B. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:41:15 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables From: "Troy Maynor" I reused the turnbuckles I had installed on the original build and omitted the tufnol. No problems so far in 34 hours. Troy Maynor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304786#304786 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:09 AM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables At idle or while taxiing, the balance weight can at times vibrate against the rubbing strips, introducing some additional periodic noise. This is possible even with the cables and close fitted tolerance with the rubbing strips. Goes without saying that the strips have to be fitted perpendicular to the TP torque tube (although this probably twists out of true during a taxiing turn). In flight I've not noticed any vibration above all the other odd vibrations and rattles and there doesn't appear to be any loss of trim sensitivity from any increased friction. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Fuchs To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 5:41 PM Subject: Europa-List: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables For those out there that implemented mod 70 (tailplane mass-balance arm replacement) and hacked out the cables, how is it going? While flying through steep banks or turbulence, can you feel (through the stick) the mass-balance weights thumping up against the guide strips? Maybe it can be felt as a slight resistance to fore/aft stick movement? Due to the very small clearance between the weights and the strips, and the tendency for the arm to wiggle laterally, this is sure to be happening. I built the 'H' support with precision, as if going to use of the guide strips, but am expecting to switch over to the cables if the tufnol method did not perfectly satisfy me in the end. Part of the satisfaction is in how it works in flight. I cannot find anyone weighing in on this yet.. The turnbuckles and nicopress clamps have been sitting in a box gathering dust, and they would like to know when they are to do their part. Greg Fuchs A050 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:48 PM PST US From: Guerner Remi Subject: Europa-List: Euro Fly In, the french RSA rally, starts next wednesday. Saut Jean Philippe, Je n'ai pas demande un parking Europa car jusqu'=E0 present nous n'avons jamais reussi a avoir plus de 5 ou 6 Europas sur le terrain en m=EAme temps! Peut etre ferons nous mieux cette annee? Pour ma part, j'y vais Vendredi et je dois rentrer sur Gap le samedi. A+ Remi Salut Remi=0AJe viendrai =E0 St Yan Dimanche-matin . Dis moi si il y aura un parking Europa?=0AA bientot=0AJP=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________ _____=0ADe : Guerner Remi =0A=C0 : Europa-List Diges t Server =0AEnvoy=E9 le : Lun 12 juillet 2010, 2 2h 15min 10s=0AObjet-: Europa-List: Euro Fly In, the french RSA rally, st arts next wednesday.=0A=0A=0AHello all,=0A=0AThis year the french RSA rally will take place in Saint Yan on July 14-18. The =0Aairfield is located 160 Nm south east from Paris. The 5 day fly-in is set to be ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:05 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables Ditto. Mike Parkin G-JULZ Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Troy Maynor Sent: 14 July 2010 19:40 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables I reused the turnbuckles I had installed on the original build and omitted the tufnol. No problems so far in 34 hours. Troy Maynor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304786#304786 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07:36:00 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:38 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables Then maybe if going the wire-guide route, the guide strips should then be eliminated, safe to say (as did Troy and Mike)? The tolerances back there are so tight with the strips, I find it hard to think that everything will stay put over time. The fake fuselage top has been fitted, effectively securing the position of the upper H support. Keeping slitted eyes on it almost every day now so far :) Will re-check its position every time the top is clecoed back into place. Thanks for all your responses so far! Greg _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan & Ami McFadyean Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables At idle or while taxiing, the balance weight can at times vibrate against the rubbing strips, introducing some additional periodic noise. This is possible even with the cables and close fitted tolerance with the rubbing strips. Goes without saying that the strips have to be fitted perpendicular to the TP torque tube (although this probably twists out of true during a taxiing turn). In flight I've not noticed any vibration above all the other odd vibrations and rattles and there doesn't appear to be any loss of trim sensitivity from any increased friction. Duncan McF. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:14 PM PST US From: ward.t@xtra.co.nz Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables I reused the turnbuckles I had installed on the original build and installed the tufnol. No problems so far. Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton Christchurch. New Zealand Ph. 64 33515166 MOB 0210640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz --- On Thu, 15/7/10, Troy Maynor wrote: > From: Troy Maynor > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, 15 July, 2010, 6:40 AM > "Troy Maynor" > > I reused the turnbuckles I had installed on the original > build and omitted the tufnol. No problems so far in 34 > hours. > Troy Maynor > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304786#304786 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:17 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables One nice thing about this hybrid approach is that the tufnol could be easily removed if clearance ever becomes an issue. On the flip side of the coin, since others have not had problem with the tufnol only solution, I could make cables and remove them, but have them on hand to install later after flight testing, if I think they would be better. Not sure how hard is it to install the pre-made cables with the top installed, though. It seems it would not be too bad, except for a complete disassembly of the torque tube. ~G ____________________________ Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mod 70 fliers with tufnol strips in place of cables I reused the turnbuckles I had installed on the original build and installed the tufnol. No problems so far. 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