Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:55 AM - Re: Inquiry into getting some Flight time in a Europa Monowheel ()
2. 08:34 AM - Jab 3300 FWF kit for sale (Fred Klein)
3. 10:50 AM - Re: ELSA (Bud Yerly)
4. 01:08 PM - desperately looking for CAP NSI140 operation manual (Marcel)
5. 03:32 PM - Re: ELSA (Fred Klein)
6. 03:38 PM - Alternate Controller for CAP 140 NSI prop (Tony Renshaw)
7. 03:46 PM - Re: ELSA (Robert Borger)
8. 04:21 PM - Re: ELSA (Jerry Rehn)
9. 04:28 PM - Re: ELSA (Garry Stout)
10. 05:51 PM - Re: ELSA (Fred Klein)
11. 06:19 PM - Re: ELSA max speed solution. (Robert Borger)
12. 06:47 PM - Re: Inquiry into getting some Flight time in a Europa Monowheel ()
13. 10:22 PM - LSA (Jerry Rehn)
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Subject: | Re: Inquiry into getting some Flight time in a Europa Monowheel |
Jeff, before you start flying the monowheel, get as much taildragger time as possible...
The Europa is a very well balanced airplane and very easy to fly in
the air. BUT the monowheel can be a handful when landing. Especially for a pilot
who has no taildragger time.
Take a look at your outriggers, if one outrigger is off the ground when parked,
then, when you land, the plane will roll from side to side on the outriggers.
This will give the impression that the plane is turning, when its not..It's not
a major problem,but you need to be aware of what is happing during the roll
out. Once you are on "short final" start looking toward the end of the runway,
because once the main wheel touches down, the outriggers will still be above
the runway, and the plane will start to rock from side to side. This will give
the impression that the plane is turning. Your sight picture looking toward
the end of the runway will tell you that the plane is ok, or that a turn is starting.
As I said, "Get all the taildragger time you can before the first flight....
I live in central Florida, I'm not an instructor, but I'll be happy to give you
a ride in the monowheel. I'm located at the Leesburg airport "KLEE" . I'm retired,
so almost anytime is good for me..
Jim Brown
N398JB
---- Jeffrey J Paris <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com> wrote:
> Dear Europhiles,The time is getting close in regards to "fledging" our Europa
Classic Kit #A012 Tail # N127ZP. Other than a few punch list items, a thorough
weight and Balance followed by our DAR inspection our Bird is ready to go. With
that in mind, I am inquiring about the possibility of getting some flying
time in a monowheel configured Europa.I live in Rochester, NY and if there was
somebody with a flying monowheel within a reasonable traveling distance I would
love to work out any details in regards to the aforementioned request. If your
a CFI with a monowheel that would be all too perfect, however, even some right
seat time as a passenger would be helpful as well. It would just be nice
to pick a builder/flyers brains on all things Europa monowheel if you know what
I mean.Thanks for your time and consideration.Cheers,Jeff Paris Europa Classic
Monowheel powered by a Jabiru 3300/Dynon D180/ Monroy CAS/ Lorance Airmap/
Garmin X-ponder/ Icom Radio.
Message 2
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Subject: | Jab 3300 FWF kit for sale |
Anyone looking for a Jab FWF kit incl. prop?...check out Clive Lee's
ad in Barnstormers.com.
Interestingly, Clive sez he's reconfiguring his Europa to fit the ELSA
weight limits.
Fred
Message 3
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To all.
N12AY is a Classic Trigear placarded GW 1320, has completed most of it's
test flights. After 4 months of testing, I will have a complete write
up soon. Note, if your Europa has been registered above 1320 lbs, it
does not qualify for an E- LSA ever. For those of you who have 1300 lb
registrations on your flying Europa Classic, convert it to a fixed
trigear if needed, add a fixed pitch prop, and if you started with a
reasonable empty weight, add some vortex generators and do some tweaking
and it will allow the plane to meet the criteria of 45 Kt stall, and 120
Kts at max continuous power. (Dirty up your wheel pants to keep the
speed down if necessary). The XS wing is nearly 50 lbs heavier,
slightly larger, and should also be able to meet the stall speed.
Problem is the empty weight is a bit high on the XS unless you are a
weight zealot. If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible
provided you have not already registered it's gross weight as over 1320.
Darn those rules.
By adding vortex generators (and I prefer adjusting the flap rig
slightly down), the aircraft at 1320 lbs stalls at 45 Kts. The handling
of the plane with the VGs is superb at low speed. 18 degrees deck
angle, flaps up at 50 Kts indicated (Actual corrected speed is 47Kts.)
Burble starts at 50, the nose starts wandering about 47, the heavy
buffet begins at 45, break shortly afterwards. VGs run from the tip to
24 inches short of the wing root, and 7% chord seems to work well. Max
continuous power setting speed runs with my old 914 power, wing speed
kit and wheel pants only drops my top end 2-3 knots, as the Warp Drive
prop is set at 29.5 degrees for 5200 static on full 38 inches power on
the ground runs. You can imagine the rpm really drops when pulling it
out of turbo. A 912 with 2.2 gearbox or 912S should be perfect for the
LSA.
The XS style pitot static is a problem, and I had to install cockpit
static to get accurate readings. I've spent a lot of time flying speed
runs, experimenting with pitot tubes etc., trying to calibrate my speed
indications at these low speeds. The XS pitot is quite good down to
about 65 Kts indicated (indicating 3 knots high) and is dead on above 80
(I am using a Winter A/S indicator and a Blue Mountain for indications).
Speed runs are done with GPS and timed runs.
I am now tweaking the flaps a tiny bit as it makes 45 knots quite
controllable. Actually with a little tweak of the trailing edge, the
plane would only need flaps for drag.
More to follow. Weather and workload are slowing me down.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Klein<mailto:fklein@orcasonline.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 11:26 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Jab 3300 FWF kit for sale
<fklein@orcasonline.com<mailto:fklein@orcasonline.com>>
Anyone looking for a Jab FWF kit incl. prop?...check out Clive Lee's
ad in Barnstormers.com.
Interestingly, Clive sez he's reconfiguring his Europa to fit the ELSA
weight limits.
Fred
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 4
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Subject: | desperately looking for CAP NSI140 operation manual |
Owning now a Europa XS TG with Rotax 914UL engine and the CAP140 NSI prop I am
having troubles to operate the variable pitch prop. The previous owner didn't
know anything of this prop control.
I have a big switch you can toggle up and down to vary the prop pitch and so the
RPM ,this works fine, but there are several push buttons, called CAL, UP, DOWN,
RESET and ENTER switches. I can input figures from +90 down to -30 and then
the digital display says something like BETA < 7.5.
I'm trying to fly the aircraft but my engine is getting very hot and over RPM is
possible, so the adjustment of the prop limit pitch is beyond limits I guess.
Tried to find expertise around but not successfull.
Is there anybody out there to help me understand how to operate this CAP NSI140
pitch controller and how to alter or set the correct pitch for a rotax914
Thank you very much for your help!!!
Marcel Flick
m.flick@quicknet.nl or +31652677115
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305630#305630
Message 5
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On Jul 20, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Bud Yerly wrote:
> If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible provided you
> have not already registered it's gross weight as over 1320. Darn
> those rules.
Bud,
Thanks for the comprehensive background on making an XS into an
ELSA...I take it that N12AY is Clive's airplane.
So here's a question:
...suppose one registers his XS mono w/ a FP prop and with a gross
weight of 1320 as an experimental...then, later...takes it back to the
shop, converts it to a fixed tri or conventional gear (w/ dirty, grimy
wheel pants), adds the VGs to further slow it down, and does the
requisite flight tests to show the plane's within the LSA envelope...
Can it them become an ELSA? Can you recommend an FAA contact to run
this by, if you'd rather not speculate?
Thanks,
Fred
Message 6
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Subject: | Alternate Controller for CAP 140 NSI prop |
Marcel,
You might find satisfaction with this controller. I hope it could solve your problem
http://www.smartavionics.com/prod-csc.html
reg
Tony Renshaw
On 21/07/2010, at 6:07 AM, Marcel wrote:
>
> Owning now a Europa XS TG with Rotax 914UL engine and the CAP140 NSI prop I
am having troubles to operate the variable pitch prop. The previous owner didn't
know anything of this prop control.
> I have a big switch you can toggle up and down to vary the prop pitch and so
the RPM ,this works fine, but there are several push buttons, called CAL, UP,
DOWN, RESET and ENTER switches. I can input figures from +90 down to -30 and then
the digital display says something like BETA < 7.5.
> I'm trying to fly the aircraft but my engine is getting very hot and over RPM
is possible, so the adjustment of the prop limit pitch is beyond limits I guess.
> Tried to find expertise around but not successfull.
> Is there anybody out there to help me understand how to operate this CAP NSI140
pitch controller and how to alter or set the correct pitch for a rotax914
> Thank you very much for your help!!!
>
> Marcel Flick
> m.flick@quicknet.nl or +31652677115
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305630#305630
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Fred,
That's a simple question. If it ever was NOT an LSA, for any reason, it can not
be converted to an LSA. Darn those rules, again...
And watch the terms. An E-LSA is a class of aircraft where the kit manufacturer
defines the aircraft to be built and it MUST be built to exactly to those specs,
without deviation.
I believe what you are speaking of is an Amateur Built Experimental Aircraft which
simply conforms to the LSA specifications.
Best regards,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jul 20, 2010, at 17:31, Fred Klein wrote:
>
> On Jul 20, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Bud Yerly wrote:
>
>> If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible provided you have not
already registered it's gross weight as over 1320. Darn those rules.
>
> Bud,
>
> Thanks for the comprehensive background on making an XS into an ELSA...I take
it that N12AY is Clive's airplane.
>
> So here's a question:
>
> ...suppose one registers his XS mono w/ a FP prop and with a gross weight of
1320 as an experimental...then, later...takes it back to the shop, converts it
to a fixed tri or conventional gear (w/ dirty, grimy wheel pants), adds the VGs
to further slow it down, and does the requisite flight tests to show the plane's
within the LSA envelope...
>
> Can it them become an ELSA? Can you recommend an FAA contact to run this by,
if you'd rather not speculate?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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Fred
I don't think you can from what I read. The criteria call, as I'm sure you
know, for a fixed or ground adjustable prop and in addition to other items
includes 660lbs max take off wgt. That would be a tough one to meet, weight
zealot or not. I also read the following: Here is a recent statement issued
by members of the ASTM committee for Light Sport Aircraft that should give
us all pause:
"Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or
powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet
the following:[deletia]9 see definition in part 1 FAR page5)
This verbiage clearly says that an aircraft must meet all the criteria
called out in the definition of an LSA at the time of its original
certification AND CONTINUOUSLY thereafter.
If you fly just once out of criteria it cannot be an LSA.
Tough language!
Fred, you don't want to go that slow anyway!
Jerry
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: ELSA
On Jul 20, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Bud Yerly wrote:
If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible provided you have not
already registered it's gross weight as over 1320. Darn those rules.
Bud,
Thanks for the comprehensive background on making an XS into an ELSA...I
take it that N12AY is Clive's airplane.
So here's a question:
...suppose one registers his XS mono w/ a FP prop and with a gross weight of
1320 as an experimental...then, later...takes it back to the shop, converts
it to a fixed tri or conventional gear (w/ dirty, grimy wheel pants), adds
the VGs to further slow it down, and does the requisite flight tests to show
the plane's within the LSA envelope...
Can it them become an ELSA? Can you recommend an FAA contact to run this by,
if you'd rather not speculate?
Thanks,
Fred
Message 9
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It is my understanding that any plane, if it meets the LSA criterion (speed,
stall, weight, complexity, etc.), can be flown "as an LSA", by a pilot
operating that plane with an LSA pilots license.
Garry Stout
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: ELSA
Fred,
That's a simple question. If it ever was NOT an LSA, for any reason, it can
not be converted to an LSA. Darn those rules, again...
And watch the terms. An E-LSA is a class of aircraft where the kit
manufacturer defines the aircraft to be built and it MUST be built to
exactly to those specs, without deviation.
I believe what you are speaking of is an Amateur Built Experimental Aircraft
which simply conforms to the LSA specifications.
Best regards,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jul 20, 2010, at 17:31, Fred Klein wrote:
On Jul 20, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Bud Yerly wrote:
If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible provided you have not
already registered it's gross weight as over 1320. Darn those rules.
Bud,
Thanks for the comprehensive background on making an XS into an ELSA...I
take it that N12AY is Clive's airplane.
So here's a question:
...suppose one registers his XS mono w/ a FP prop and with a gross weight of
1320 as an experimental...then, later...takes it back to the shop, converts
it to a fixed tri or conventional gear (w/ dirty, grimy wheel pants), adds
the VGs to further slow it down, and does the requisite flight tests to show
the plane's within the LSA envelope...
Can it them become an ELSA? Can you recommend an FAA contact to run this by,
if you'd rather not speculate?
Thanks,
Fred
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
Message 10
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On Jul 20, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Jerry Rehn wrote:
> other items includes 660lbs max take off wgt.
...sounds like a deal breaker vis a vis our Europae...
do not archive
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Subject: | Re: ELSA max speed solution. |
Bud,
If you can get the stall speed down to the required 45 KTS, there is
another solution to the max speed issue. You can "derate" the engine.
State in your operating limitations that you are limited to 5800 RPM
(or whatever max RPM is for the 912 or 912S) to, say, 5 or 10 minutes
for takeoff and climb. After that, the operator is limited to a max of
5500 RPM or whatever is necessary to hold the speed down to 120 KTS max.
This provides full power for takeoff and initial climb and provides
your 120 KT cruise at 3 GPH. No need to resort to adding extra special
drag to mess up the Europa's wonderful efficiency.
So you build a tri-gear (or conventional gear) with Rotax 912 or 912S
and a Warp Drive ground adjustable prop. Build it as light as possible
for best useful load. License it for 1320 lbs max gross. Use your VGs
and flap fiddling to get the stall below 45 KTS and derate the engine
for whatever power provides you with 120 KT cruise.
Just like that you have an Amateur Built Experimental that meets LSA
requirements.
Just my two bits. Fire away!
Check six,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jul 20, 2010, at 12:49, Bud Yerly wrote:
> To all.
> N12AY is a Classic Trigear placarded GW 1320, has completed most of
it's test flights. After 4 months of testing, I will have a complete
write up soon. Note, if your Europa has been registered above 1320 lbs,
it does not qualify for an E- LSA ever. For those of you who have 1300
lb registrations on your flying Europa Classic, convert it to a fixed
trigear if needed, add a fixed pitch prop, and if you started with a
reasonable empty weight, add some vortex generators and do some tweaking
and it will allow the plane to meet the criteria of 45 Kt stall, and 120
Kts at max continuous power. (Dirty up your wheel pants to keep the
speed down if necessary). The XS wing is nearly 50 lbs heavier,
slightly larger, and should also be able to meet the stall speed.
Problem is the empty weight is a bit high on the XS unless you are a
weight zealot. If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible
provided you have not already registered it's gross weight as over 1320.
Darn those rules.
>
> By adding vortex generators (and I prefer adjusting the flap rig
slightly down), the aircraft at 1320 lbs stalls at 45 Kts. The handling
of the plane with the VGs is superb at low speed. 18 degrees deck
angle, flaps up at 50 Kts indicated (Actual corrected speed is 47Kts.)
Burble starts at 50, the nose starts wandering about 47, the heavy
buffet begins at 45, break shortly afterwards. VGs run from the tip to
24 inches short of the wing root, and 7% chord seems to work well. Max
continuous power setting speed runs with my old 914 power, wing speed
kit and wheel pants only drops my top end 2-3 knots, as the Warp Drive
prop is set at 29.5 degrees for 5200 static on full 38 inches power on
the ground runs. You can imagine the rpm really drops when pulling it
out of turbo. A 912 with 2.2 gearbox or 912S should be perfect for the
LSA.
>
> The XS style pitot static is a problem, and I had to install cockpit
static to get accurate readings. I've spent a lot of time flying speed
runs, experimenting with pitot tubes etc., trying to calibrate my speed
indications at these low speeds. The XS pitot is quite good down to
about 65 Kts indicated (indicating 3 knots high) and is dead on above 80
(I am using a Winter A/S indicator and a Blue Mountain for indications).
Speed runs are done with GPS and timed runs.
>
> I am now tweaking the flaps a tiny bit as it makes 45 knots quite
controllable. Actually with a little tweak of the trailing edge, the
plane would only need flaps for drag.
>
> More to follow. Weather and workload are slowing me down.
>
> Bud Yerly
> Custom Flight Creations
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Subject: | Re: Inquiry into getting some Flight time in a Europa Monowheel |
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Message 13
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Fred
I looked at the definition(LSA) again and it looks like that minimum weight
is for "lighter than air" light sport! Didn't know there was such a thing
and a little confusing when they throw lighter than air in with the
definition for light sport standard aircraft. So perhaps the gross is the
only weight limitation? But the part where you can't go back to light sport
once you have flown out of category in any of the required items for light
sport still stands as best I can see. Guess they don't want people to
reclassify at will.
Jerry
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