---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/20/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:55 AM - Re: Inquiry into getting some Flight time in a Europa Monowheel () 2. 08:34 AM - Jab 3300 FWF kit for sale (Fred Klein) 3. 10:50 AM - Re: ELSA (Bud Yerly) 4. 01:08 PM - desperately looking for CAP NSI140 operation manual (Marcel) 5. 03:32 PM - Re: ELSA (Fred Klein) 6. 03:38 PM - Alternate Controller for CAP 140 NSI prop (Tony Renshaw) 7. 03:46 PM - Re: ELSA (Robert Borger) 8. 04:21 PM - Re: ELSA (Jerry Rehn) 9. 04:28 PM - Re: ELSA (Garry Stout) 10. 05:51 PM - Re: ELSA (Fred Klein) 11. 06:19 PM - Re: ELSA max speed solution. (Robert Borger) 12. 06:47 PM - Re: Inquiry into getting some Flight time in a Europa Monowheel () 13. 10:22 PM - LSA (Jerry Rehn) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:19 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Inquiry into getting some Flight time in a Europa Monowheel Jeff, before you start flying the monowheel, get as much taildragger time as possible... The Europa is a very well balanced airplane and very easy to fly in the air. BUT the monowheel can be a handful when landing. Especially for a pilot who has no taildragger time. Take a look at your outriggers, if one outrigger is off the ground when parked, then, when you land, the plane will roll from side to side on the outriggers. This will give the impression that the plane is turning, when its not..It's not a major problem,but you need to be aware of what is happing during the roll out. Once you are on "short final" start looking toward the end of the runway, because once the main wheel touches down, the outriggers will still be above the runway, and the plane will start to rock from side to side. This will give the impression that the plane is turning. Your sight picture looking toward the end of the runway will tell you that the plane is ok, or that a turn is starting. As I said, "Get all the taildragger time you can before the first flight.... I live in central Florida, I'm not an instructor, but I'll be happy to give you a ride in the monowheel. I'm located at the Leesburg airport "KLEE" . I'm retired, so almost anytime is good for me.. Jim Brown N398JB ---- Jeffrey J Paris wrote: > Dear Europhiles,The time is getting close in regards to "fledging" our Europa Classic Kit #A012 Tail # N127ZP. Other than a few punch list items, a thorough weight and Balance followed by our DAR inspection our Bird is ready to go. With that in mind, I am inquiring about the possibility of getting some flying time in a monowheel configured Europa.I live in Rochester, NY and if there was somebody with a flying monowheel within a reasonable traveling distance I would love to work out any details in regards to the aforementioned request. If your a CFI with a monowheel that would be all too perfect, however, even some right seat time as a passenger would be helpful as well. It would just be nice to pick a builder/flyers brains on all things Europa monowheel if you know what I mean.Thanks for your time and consideration.Cheers,Jeff Paris Europa Classic Monowheel powered by a Jabiru 3300/Dynon D180/ Monroy CAS/ Lorance Airmap/ Garmin X-ponder/ Icom Radio. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:37 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Europa-List: Jab 3300 FWF kit for sale Anyone looking for a Jab FWF kit incl. prop?...check out Clive Lee's ad in Barnstormers.com. Interestingly, Clive sez he's reconfiguring his Europa to fit the ELSA weight limits. Fred ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:57 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ELSA To all. N12AY is a Classic Trigear placarded GW 1320, has completed most of it's test flights. After 4 months of testing, I will have a complete write up soon. Note, if your Europa has been registered above 1320 lbs, it does not qualify for an E- LSA ever. For those of you who have 1300 lb registrations on your flying Europa Classic, convert it to a fixed trigear if needed, add a fixed pitch prop, and if you started with a reasonable empty weight, add some vortex generators and do some tweaking and it will allow the plane to meet the criteria of 45 Kt stall, and 120 Kts at max continuous power. (Dirty up your wheel pants to keep the speed down if necessary). The XS wing is nearly 50 lbs heavier, slightly larger, and should also be able to meet the stall speed. Problem is the empty weight is a bit high on the XS unless you are a weight zealot. If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible provided you have not already registered it's gross weight as over 1320. Darn those rules. By adding vortex generators (and I prefer adjusting the flap rig slightly down), the aircraft at 1320 lbs stalls at 45 Kts. The handling of the plane with the VGs is superb at low speed. 18 degrees deck angle, flaps up at 50 Kts indicated (Actual corrected speed is 47Kts.) Burble starts at 50, the nose starts wandering about 47, the heavy buffet begins at 45, break shortly afterwards. VGs run from the tip to 24 inches short of the wing root, and 7% chord seems to work well. Max continuous power setting speed runs with my old 914 power, wing speed kit and wheel pants only drops my top end 2-3 knots, as the Warp Drive prop is set at 29.5 degrees for 5200 static on full 38 inches power on the ground runs. You can imagine the rpm really drops when pulling it out of turbo. A 912 with 2.2 gearbox or 912S should be perfect for the LSA. The XS style pitot static is a problem, and I had to install cockpit static to get accurate readings. I've spent a lot of time flying speed runs, experimenting with pitot tubes etc., trying to calibrate my speed indications at these low speeds. The XS pitot is quite good down to about 65 Kts indicated (indicating 3 knots high) and is dead on above 80 (I am using a Winter A/S indicator and a Blue Mountain for indications). Speed runs are done with GPS and timed runs. I am now tweaking the flaps a tiny bit as it makes 45 knots quite controllable. Actually with a little tweak of the trailing edge, the plane would only need flaps for drag. More to follow. Weather and workload are slowing me down. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: Europa-List: Jab 3300 FWF kit for sale > Anyone looking for a Jab FWF kit incl. prop?...check out Clive Lee's ad in Barnstormers.com. Interestingly, Clive sez he's reconfiguring his Europa to fit the ELSA weight limits. Fred http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:19 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: desperately looking for CAP NSI140 operation manual From: "Marcel" Owning now a Europa XS TG with Rotax 914UL engine and the CAP140 NSI prop I am having troubles to operate the variable pitch prop. The previous owner didn't know anything of this prop control. I have a big switch you can toggle up and down to vary the prop pitch and so the RPM ,this works fine, but there are several push buttons, called CAL, UP, DOWN, RESET and ENTER switches. I can input figures from +90 down to -30 and then the digital display says something like BETA < 7.5. I'm trying to fly the aircraft but my engine is getting very hot and over RPM is possible, so the adjustment of the prop limit pitch is beyond limits I guess. Tried to find expertise around but not successfull. Is there anybody out there to help me understand how to operate this CAP NSI140 pitch controller and how to alter or set the correct pitch for a rotax914 Thank you very much for your help!!! Marcel Flick m.flick@quicknet.nl or +31652677115 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305630#305630 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:56 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: ELSA On Jul 20, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Bud Yerly wrote: > If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible provided you > have not already registered it's gross weight as over 1320. Darn > those rules. Bud, Thanks for the comprehensive background on making an XS into an ELSA...I take it that N12AY is Clive's airplane. So here's a question: ...suppose one registers his XS mono w/ a FP prop and with a gross weight of 1320 as an experimental...then, later...takes it back to the shop, converts it to a fixed tri or conventional gear (w/ dirty, grimy wheel pants), adds the VGs to further slow it down, and does the requisite flight tests to show the plane's within the LSA envelope... Can it them become an ELSA? Can you recommend an FAA contact to run this by, if you'd rather not speculate? Thanks, Fred ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:48 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Alternate Controller for CAP 140 NSI prop From: Tony Renshaw Marcel, You might find satisfaction with this controller. I hope it could solve your problem http://www.smartavionics.com/prod-csc.html reg Tony Renshaw On 21/07/2010, at 6:07 AM, Marcel wrote: > > Owning now a Europa XS TG with Rotax 914UL engine and the CAP140 NSI prop I am having troubles to operate the variable pitch prop. The previous owner didn't know anything of this prop control. > I have a big switch you can toggle up and down to vary the prop pitch and so the RPM ,this works fine, but there are several push buttons, called CAL, UP, DOWN, RESET and ENTER switches. I can input figures from +90 down to -30 and then the digital display says something like BETA < 7.5. > I'm trying to fly the aircraft but my engine is getting very hot and over RPM is possible, so the adjustment of the prop limit pitch is beyond limits I guess. > Tried to find expertise around but not successfull. > Is there anybody out there to help me understand how to operate this CAP NSI140 pitch controller and how to alter or set the correct pitch for a rotax914 > Thank you very much for your help!!! > > Marcel Flick > m.flick@quicknet.nl or +31652677115 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305630#305630 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: ELSA From: Robert Borger Fred, That's a simple question. If it ever was NOT an LSA, for any reason, it can not be converted to an LSA. Darn those rules, again... And watch the terms. An E-LSA is a class of aircraft where the kit manufacturer defines the aircraft to be built and it MUST be built to exactly to those specs, without deviation. I believe what you are speaking of is an Amateur Built Experimental Aircraft which simply conforms to the LSA specifications. Best regards, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jul 20, 2010, at 17:31, Fred Klein wrote: > > On Jul 20, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Bud Yerly wrote: > >> If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible provided you have not already registered it's gross weight as over 1320. Darn those rules. > > Bud, > > Thanks for the comprehensive background on making an XS into an ELSA...I take it that N12AY is Clive's airplane. > > So here's a question: > > ...suppose one registers his XS mono w/ a FP prop and with a gross weight of 1320 as an experimental...then, later...takes it back to the shop, converts it to a fixed tri or conventional gear (w/ dirty, grimy wheel pants), adds the VGs to further slow it down, and does the requisite flight tests to show the plane's within the LSA envelope... > > Can it them become an ELSA? Can you recommend an FAA contact to run this by, if you'd rather not speculate? > > Thanks, > > Fred > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:15 PM PST US From: "Jerry Rehn" Subject: RE: Europa-List: ELSA Fred I don't think you can from what I read. The criteria call, as I'm sure you know, for a fixed or ground adjustable prop and in addition to other items includes 660lbs max take off wgt. That would be a tough one to meet, weight zealot or not. I also read the following: Here is a recent statement issued by members of the ASTM committee for Light Sport Aircraft that should give us all pause: "Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:[deletia]9 see definition in part 1 FAR page5) This verbiage clearly says that an aircraft must meet all the criteria called out in the definition of an LSA at the time of its original certification AND CONTINUOUSLY thereafter. If you fly just once out of criteria it cannot be an LSA. Tough language! Fred, you don't want to go that slow anyway! Jerry _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: ELSA On Jul 20, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Bud Yerly wrote: If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible provided you have not already registered it's gross weight as over 1320. Darn those rules. Bud, Thanks for the comprehensive background on making an XS into an ELSA...I take it that N12AY is Clive's airplane. So here's a question: ...suppose one registers his XS mono w/ a FP prop and with a gross weight of 1320 as an experimental...then, later...takes it back to the shop, converts it to a fixed tri or conventional gear (w/ dirty, grimy wheel pants), adds the VGs to further slow it down, and does the requisite flight tests to show the plane's within the LSA envelope... Can it them become an ELSA? Can you recommend an FAA contact to run this by, if you'd rather not speculate? Thanks, Fred ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:51 PM PST US From: "Garry Stout" Subject: RE: Europa-List: ELSA It is my understanding that any plane, if it meets the LSA criterion (speed, stall, weight, complexity, etc.), can be flown "as an LSA", by a pilot operating that plane with an LSA pilots license. Garry Stout From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 6:46 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: ELSA Fred, That's a simple question. If it ever was NOT an LSA, for any reason, it can not be converted to an LSA. Darn those rules, again... And watch the terms. An E-LSA is a class of aircraft where the kit manufacturer defines the aircraft to be built and it MUST be built to exactly to those specs, without deviation. I believe what you are speaking of is an Amateur Built Experimental Aircraft which simply conforms to the LSA specifications. Best regards, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jul 20, 2010, at 17:31, Fred Klein wrote: On Jul 20, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Bud Yerly wrote: If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible provided you have not already registered it's gross weight as over 1320. Darn those rules. Bud, Thanks for the comprehensive background on making an XS into an ELSA...I take it that N12AY is Clive's airplane. So here's a question: ...suppose one registers his XS mono w/ a FP prop and with a gross weight of 1320 as an experimental...then, later...takes it back to the shop, converts it to a fixed tri or conventional gear (w/ dirty, grimy wheel pants), adds the VGs to further slow it down, and does the requisite flight tests to show the plane's within the LSA envelope... Can it them become an ELSA? Can you recommend an FAA contact to run this by, if you'd rather not speculate? Thanks, Fred href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:36 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: ELSA On Jul 20, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Jerry Rehn wrote: > other items includes 660lbs max take off wgt. ...sounds like a deal breaker vis a vis our Europae... do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: ELSA max speed solution. From: Robert Borger Bud, If you can get the stall speed down to the required 45 KTS, there is another solution to the max speed issue. You can "derate" the engine. State in your operating limitations that you are limited to 5800 RPM (or whatever max RPM is for the 912 or 912S) to, say, 5 or 10 minutes for takeoff and climb. After that, the operator is limited to a max of 5500 RPM or whatever is necessary to hold the speed down to 120 KTS max. This provides full power for takeoff and initial climb and provides your 120 KT cruise at 3 GPH. No need to resort to adding extra special drag to mess up the Europa's wonderful efficiency. So you build a tri-gear (or conventional gear) with Rotax 912 or 912S and a Warp Drive ground adjustable prop. Build it as light as possible for best useful load. License it for 1320 lbs max gross. Use your VGs and flap fiddling to get the stall below 45 KTS and derate the engine for whatever power provides you with 120 KT cruise. Just like that you have an Amateur Built Experimental that meets LSA requirements. Just my two bits. Fire away! Check six, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jul 20, 2010, at 12:49, Bud Yerly wrote: > To all. > N12AY is a Classic Trigear placarded GW 1320, has completed most of it's test flights. After 4 months of testing, I will have a complete write up soon. Note, if your Europa has been registered above 1320 lbs, it does not qualify for an E- LSA ever. For those of you who have 1300 lb registrations on your flying Europa Classic, convert it to a fixed trigear if needed, add a fixed pitch prop, and if you started with a reasonable empty weight, add some vortex generators and do some tweaking and it will allow the plane to meet the criteria of 45 Kt stall, and 120 Kts at max continuous power. (Dirty up your wheel pants to keep the speed down if necessary). The XS wing is nearly 50 lbs heavier, slightly larger, and should also be able to meet the stall speed. Problem is the empty weight is a bit high on the XS unless you are a weight zealot. If you are a weight zealot, the XS should be eligible provided you have not already registered it's gross weight as over 1320. Darn those rules. > > By adding vortex generators (and I prefer adjusting the flap rig slightly down), the aircraft at 1320 lbs stalls at 45 Kts. The handling of the plane with the VGs is superb at low speed. 18 degrees deck angle, flaps up at 50 Kts indicated (Actual corrected speed is 47Kts.) Burble starts at 50, the nose starts wandering about 47, the heavy buffet begins at 45, break shortly afterwards. VGs run from the tip to 24 inches short of the wing root, and 7% chord seems to work well. Max continuous power setting speed runs with my old 914 power, wing speed kit and wheel pants only drops my top end 2-3 knots, as the Warp Drive prop is set at 29.5 degrees for 5200 static on full 38 inches power on the ground runs. You can imagine the rpm really drops when pulling it out of turbo. A 912 with 2.2 gearbox or 912S should be perfect for the LSA. > > The XS style pitot static is a problem, and I had to install cockpit static to get accurate readings. I've spent a lot of time flying speed runs, experimenting with pitot tubes etc., trying to calibrate my speed indications at these low speeds. The XS pitot is quite good down to about 65 Kts indicated (indicating 3 knots high) and is dead on above 80 (I am using a Winter A/S indicator and a Blue Mountain for indications). Speed runs are done with GPS and timed runs. > > I am now tweaking the flaps a tiny bit as it makes 45 knots quite controllable. Actually with a little tweak of the trailing edge, the plane would only need flaps for drag. > > More to follow. Weather and workload are slowing me down. > > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Inquiry into getting some Flight time in a Europa Monowheel From: LS0+IEV1cm9wYS1MaXN0IG1lc3NhZ2UgcG9zdGVkIGJ5OiA8YWNyb2ppbUBjZmwucnIuY29tPg0K DQpKZWZmLCBiZWZvcmUgeW91IHN0YXJ0IGZseWluZyB0aGUgbW9ub3doZWVsLCBnZXQgYXMgbXVj aCB0YWlsZHJhZ2dlciB0aW1lIGFzIHBvc3NpYmxlLi4uIFRoZSBFdXJvcGEgaXMgYSB2ZXJ5IHdl bGwgYmFsYW5jZWQgYWlycGxhbmUgYW5kIHZlcnkgZWFzeSB0byBmbHkgaW4gdGhlIGFpci4gQlVU IHRoZSBtb25vd2hlZWwgY2FuIGJlIGEgaGFuZGZ1bCB3aGVuIGxhbmRpbmcuIEVzcGVjaWFsbHkg Zm9yIGEgcGlsb3Qgd2hvIGhhcyBubyB0YWlsZHJhZ2dlciB0aW1lLg0KDQpUYWtlIGEgbG9vayBh dCB5b3VyIG91dHJpZ2dlcnMsIGlmIG9uZSBvdXRyaWdnZXIgaXMgb2ZmIHRoZSBncm91bmQgd2hl biBwYXJrZWQsIHRoZW4sIHdoZW4geW91IGxhbmQsIHRoZSBwbGFuZSB3aWxsIHJvbGwgZnJvbSBz aWRlIHRvIHNpZGUgb24gdGhlIG91dHJpZ2dlcnMuIFRoaXMgd2lsbCBnaXZlIHRoZSBpbXByZXNz 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like that minimum weight is for "lighter than air" light sport! Didn't know there was such a thing and a little confusing when they throw lighter than air in with the definition for light sport standard aircraft. So perhaps the gross is the only weight limitation? But the part where you can't go back to light sport once you have flown out of category in any of the required items for light sport still stands as best I can see. Guess they don't want people to reclassify at will. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.