---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/03/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:21 AM - Re: Negative "G" (Kevin Challis) 2. 05:47 AM - Re: iPad aviation apps (h&jeuropa) 3. 08:51 AM - Stall spin characteristics (William McClellan) 4. 09:08 AM - Re: Stall spin characteristics (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 5. 09:24 AM - Re: Stall spin characteristics (David Joyce) 6. 09:52 AM - Re: Stall spin characteristics (JEFF ROBERTS) 7. 10:51 AM - Re: Stall spin characteristics (ROBERT LINDSAY) 8. 11:02 AM - Re: Stall spin characteristics (Robert Borger) 9. 11:04 AM - Re: Stall spin characteristics (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 10. 11:30 AM - Re: Stall spin characteristics (rparigoris) 11. 12:57 PM - Re: Teflon & Steel Pin Hinge: LAA Mod? (Richard Churchill-Coleman) 12. 03:27 PM - Re: Stall spin characteristics (rampil) 13. 08:05 PM - Re: Stall spin characteristics (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:07 AM PST US From: Kevin Challis Subject: Re: Europa-List: Negative "G" I find the engine coughs/misses a beat if you neg g for too long/hard which i think the spitfire did as well (carb floats coming up and shutting the fuel off). Kevin Challis On 3 Aug 2010, at 01:17, keith hickling wrote: > Hi Ferg, > see page 10-1, 912 operator's manual Jan 2007. Max 5 seconds at > negative 0.5g > > > Keith Hickling, > New Zealand. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa- > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle > Sent: Thursday, 29 July 2010 6:52 a.m. > To: 5EUROPALIST > Subject: Europa-List: Negative "G" > > This may not be the place to ask, but experience here might > be better than elsewhere. My question (following the MG specs sheet > regarding neg G) is: > > I believe the Rotax restriction on the 900 series engines is > NO Neg G, yet several have remarked on =9Cjinking=9D the > undercarriage to lock recalcitrant outriggers and similar moves. Wha > t is the proper limit? =93 is an instantaneous neg G manoeuvre a No-no > or is there perhaps some leeway ( No inverted flight, etc.)? > > What thinkest thou sirrah? > > Cheers Ferg > > > - The Europa-List Email Forum - > --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > --> http://forums.matronics.com > - List Contribution Web Site - > Thank you for your generous support! > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:41 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: iPad aviation apps From: "h&jeuropa" Fred, We started using an iPad in our Europa in June. So far we're really happy with it. No problems with glare or not being bright enough. The built in GPS works fine (get the 3G with GPS version) so we have charts (sectionals & Low alt enroute) showing our position while flying and not connected to 3G or WiFi. Position does not show on approach plates but that is supposed to happen this Fall. We're using SkyCharts Pro (www.skycharts.net) ($20/year). Gives you Sectionals, Low Alt Enroutes and Approach Plates. Also the FAA Airport Directory. Each chart includes the airport information for all airports on that chart. You cache to the iPad the charts of interest. Then they are available for use without connection to 3G or WiFi. Caching takes time and memory, so you only cache those that you need and you start it last thing at night so its done in the morning!! If you're connected to the internet, SkyCharts will display METARS and TAFs. And of course any chart. Other iPad applications are www.foreflight.com - probably the most popular app and includes flight planning features. Costs $75 or $95 / year. www.navimatics.com Don't know anything about this one except what's on the website. www.flightguide.com Just released iPad version. Their airport info is pretty nice - it's the same outfit that publishes the Brown Books, but it's kinda of expensive, $10 / month or more. We had one instance of it overheating and shutting down. Just don't leave it in the direct sun. We tend to keep it sorta vertical, leaning up against one's stomach. Then you tip it back to look at it. We had a Microfiber cloth that we made into a case for the iPad. Protects the screen and wipes off fingerprints. Hope this helps. Feel free to ask more questions. Also long threads about iPad on AOPA forums website and Van's Airforce www.vansairforce.net Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307295#307295 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:40 AM PST US From: William McClellan Subject: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics I understand that the Europa is very prone to abruptly dropping a wing, trying to enter a spin, when stalled with full flaps in the landing configuration. On the other hand, in the clean, unflapped configuration the stall is very benign. I wonder if this is true of all Europa's or only some depending on the particulars of that builders end product and possible modifications. I have nearly 1000 hrs in a Citabria with very much of it flying into short "backcountry" dirt strips requiring significant STOL characteristics. I don't have flaps so regularly use severe straight and banked slips. The Citabria is a "dirty" plane compared to the "very clean" Europa so I believe the use of severe slips in the Europa is never warranted. My experience with very clean planes, I also have 1000 hours in my high performance glider and since the air brakes work so well, severe slipping is not needed...though some less than ultra clean gliders, ie, trainers, can make use of severe slipping. It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's accident was a result of this abrupt spin stall characteristic in landing configuration. I have a rule (though not unique), "never skid a turn", keeping a nice margin above stall. It seems that the Europa (and probably all super clean planes, for instance the Cirrus), have a propensity to severe stall spin in landing configuration. I understand that many Europa pilots land with an airspeed up to 65 but this uses a greater landing distance considering the stall speed is in the 40's. Europa's original touted mission was short field, pasture strips. For those who often use this short field capability, I would like to know the particulars to make the Europa perform safely in this manner. Not having piloted a Europa, but am close to finishing my build, I am curious to these questions. Bill McClellan ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:16 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics Bill=0Athe stall characteristics are dependent on the quality and accuracy of the =0Aleading edge. LE is relatively small radius and its all too easy to sand the =0Abump off with the effects you mention. In UK we are told to use stall strips or =0Aa stall warner.=0AStall strips are recommended and i f carefully adjusted will calm the stall. Get =0Ahold of the digital print out of the section and make templates every foot or so =0Aspanwise. Then sp end hours and hours getting the section right. There is a tiny =0Abump unde r the LE which is important but hard to spot.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___ _____________________________=0AFrom: William McClellan =0ATo: "Europa-List@matronics.com" =0ASent: Tuesday, 3 August, 2010 16:50:07=0ASubject: Europa-List: Stall spin charact @earthlink.net>=0A=0AI understand that the Europa is very prone to abruptly dropping a wing, trying =0Ato enter a spin, when stalled with full flaps i n the landing configuration. On =0Athe other hand, in the clean, unflapped configuration the stall is very benign. =0AI wonder if this is true of al l Europa's or only some depending on the =0Aparticulars of that builders en d product and possible modifications. I have =0Anearly 1000 hrs in a Citab ria with very much of it flying into short =0A"backcountry" dirt strips req uiring significant STOL characteristics. I don't =0Ahave flaps so regularl y use severe straight and banked slips. The Citabria is a =0A"dirty" plane compared to the "very clean" Europa so I believe the use of severe =0Aslip s in the Europa is never warranted. My experience with very clean planes, I =0Aalso have 1000 hours in my high performance glider and since the air b rakes work =0Aso well, severe slipping is not needed...though some less tha n ultra clean =0Agliders, ie, trainers, can make use of severe slipping!=0A . It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's accident was a result of this abrupt s pin =0Astall characteristic in landing configuration. I have a rule (thoug h not =0Aunique), "never skid a turn", keeping a nice margin above stall. It seems that =0Athe Europa (and probably all super clean planes, for insta nce the Cirrus), have =0Aa propensity to severe stall spin in landing confi guration. I understand that =0Amany Europa pilots land with an airspeed up to 65 but this uses a greater =0Alanding distance considering the stall sp eed is in the 40's. Europa's original =0Atouted mission was short field, p asture strips. For those who often use this =0Ashort field capability, I w ould like to know the particulars to make the Europa =0Aperform safely in t his manner. Not having piloted a Europa, but am close to =0Afinishing my b uild, I am curious to these questions.=0ABill McClellan=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ================= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:46 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics Bill, I have only stalled my own mono XS Europa, but that I have found is very benign in the stall in all configurations. The only time that I have got into the start of a spin was when I deliberately stalled it in a steep turn - for the experience. It went very quickly into a spin, but that corrected itself instantaneously with opposite rudder and easing the stick forward. Otherwise a straight & level stall with flaps/gear down and the plane balanced is a non event, with little tendency to drop a wing and instantly sorted by letting go the stick. I find it entirely well behaved in doing a full rudder side slip with flaps down for a PFL. I would suspect that the same would apply to any XS as long as the wings have gone on at the same rigging angle, and the builder hasn't chosen a Cof G too far aft. Classics of course have much more wing shape variability and it might be that individual ones are less well behaved. However my guess is that most stall spin accidents have little to do with the stall characteristics of the aircraft, but more to do with the enormous work load associated with an engine failure shortly after take off, It is all too easy to inadvertently be helping the turn round with excess rudder whilst losing sight of the airspeed, because you are stressed big time and desperately trying to work out several other things in your mind. If you can get a ride in someone else's Europa (or when yours is built)and go up to a safe height I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how nicely it stalls and sideslips with full flap. You will also probably find that the ground run on landing barely exceeds 100metres, and much the same on take off if you have 912S or 914, and a VP prop and are not too hot/high/heavy! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "William McClellan" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:50 PM Subject: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics > > > I understand that the Europa is very prone to abruptly dropping a wing, > trying to enter a spin, when stalled with full flaps in the landing > configuration. On the other hand, in the clean, unflapped configuration > the stall is very benign. I wonder if this is true of all Europa's or > only some depending on the particulars of that builders end product and > possible modifications. I have nearly 1000 hrs in a Citabria with very > much of it flying into short "backcountry" dirt strips requiring > significant STOL characteristics. I don't have flaps so regularly use > severe straight and banked slips. The Citabria is a "dirty" plane > compared to the "very clean" Europa so I believe the use of severe slips > in the Europa is never warranted. My experience with very clean planes, I > also have 1000 hours in my high performance glider and since the air > brakes work so well, severe slipping is not needed...though some less than > ultra clean gliders, ie, trainers, can make use of severe slipping! > . It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's accident was a result of this abrupt > spin stall characteristic in landing configuration. I have a rule (though > not unique), "never skid a turn", keeping a nice margin above stall. It > seems that the Europa (and probably all super clean planes, for instance > the Cirrus), have a propensity to severe stall spin in landing > configuration. I understand that many Europa pilots land with an airspeed > up to 65 but this uses a greater landing distance considering the stall > speed is in the 40's. Europa's original touted mission was short field, > pasture strips. For those who often use this short field capability, I > would like to know the particulars to make the Europa perform safely in > this manner. Not having piloted a Europa, but am close to finishing my > build, I am curious to these questions. > Bill McClellan > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics From: JEFF ROBERTS Bill, I have stalled my plane power on, power off, full flaps, and clean. We have never felt a wing drop. I use the standard Europa stall warner and it works well. I suspect as David points out that in the very slow or heavy turn would be the only way to get her into the spin. BTW: I slip Gold Rush quit frequently and it works well to drop it in. Just my two cents ;o) Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:23 AM, David Joyce wrote: > > > > Bill, I have only stalled my own mono XS Europa, but that I have > found is very benign in the stall in all configurations. The only > time that I have got into the start of a spin was when I > deliberately stalled it in a steep turn - for the experience. It > went very quickly into a spin, but that corrected itself > instantaneously with opposite rudder and easing the stick forward. > Otherwise a straight & level stall with flaps/gear down and the > plane balanced is a non event, with little tendency to drop a wing > and instantly sorted by letting go the stick. I find it entirely > well behaved in doing a full rudder side slip with flaps down for a > PFL. > I would suspect that the same would apply to any XS as > long as the wings have gone on at the same rigging angle, and the > builder hasn't chosen a Cof G too far aft. Classics of course have > much more wing shape variability and it might be that individual > ones are less well behaved. However my guess is that most stall spin > accidents have little to do with the stall characteristics of the > aircraft, but more to do with the enormous work load associated with > an engine failure shortly after take off, It is all too easy to > inadvertently be helping the turn round with excess rudder whilst > losing sight of the airspeed, because you are stressed big time and > desperately trying to work out several other things in your mind. > If you can get a ride in someone else's Europa (or when > yours is built)and go up to a safe height I think you will be > pleasantly surprised at how nicely it stalls and sideslips with full > flap. You will also probably find that the ground run on landing > barely exceeds 100metres, and much the same on take off if you have > 912S or 914, and a VP prop and are not too hot/high/heavy! > Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "William McClellan" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:50 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics > > >> > >> >> I understand that the Europa is very prone to abruptly dropping a >> wing, trying to enter a spin, when stalled with full flaps in the >> landing configuration. On the other hand, in the clean, unflapped >> configuration the stall is very benign. I wonder if this is true >> of all Europa's or only some depending on the particulars of that >> builders end product and possible modifications. I have nearly >> 1000 hrs in a Citabria with very much of it flying into short >> "backcountry" dirt strips requiring significant STOL >> characteristics. I don't have flaps so regularly use severe >> straight and banked slips. The Citabria is a "dirty" plane >> compared to the "very clean" Europa so I believe the use of severe >> slips in the Europa is never warranted. My experience with very >> clean planes, I also have 1000 hours in my high performance glider >> and since the air brakes work so well, severe slipping is not >> needed...though some less than ultra clean gliders, ie, trainers, >> can make use of severe slipping! >> . It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's accident was a result of this >> abrupt spin stall characteristic in landing configuration. I have >> a rule (though not unique), "never skid a turn", keeping a nice >> margin above stall. It seems that the Europa (and probably all >> super clean planes, for instance the Cirrus), have a propensity to >> severe stall spin in landing configuration. I understand that many >> Europa pilots land with an airspeed up to 65 but this uses a >> greater landing distance considering the stall speed is in the >> 40's. Europa's original touted mission was short field, pasture >> strips. For those who often use this short field capability, I >> would like to know the particulars to make the Europa perform >> safely in this manner. Not having piloted a Europa, but am close >> to finishing my build, I am curious to these questions. >> Bill McClellan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:55 AM PST US From: "ROBERT LINDSAY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics Bill--On first flights I have done stalls on thirteen different Europas from classics, XS, tri & mono gear, plus motor glider. Most first flight stalls were done at idle power at medium weight and CG. All stalled benignly in a clean config, but some had a wing drop after first indication of imminent stall in the flaps down config--which was corrected easily with neutralizing controls. Of course, there is some altitude loss. These wing droppers were candidates for stall strips. In regard to short field landings--know what the stall speed is for your config, weight & CG. (That is part of what you check in your phase 1 test period) Then fly your stabilized approach at 1.2 Vso (assuming no gusting wind). Slips are marginally effective in the XS mono giving you about 1500 fpm down vice 1200 no slip at 80 KIAS gear down, idle pwr. Slips in a turn are OK with top rudder but of course skidding turns are a no-no. Bob Lindsay San Diego CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "William McClellan" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 8:50 AM Subject: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics > > > I understand that the Europa is very prone to abruptly dropping a wing, > trying to enter a spin, when stalled with full flaps in the landing > configuration. On the other hand, in the clean, unflapped configuration > the stall is very benign. I wonder if this is true of all Europa's or > only some depending on the particulars of that builders end product and > possible modifications. I have nearly 1000 hrs in a Citabria with very > much of it flying into short "backcountry" dirt strips requiring > significant STOL characteristics. I don't have flaps so regularly use > severe straight and banked slips. The Citabria is a "dirty" plane > compared to the "very clean" Europa so I believe the use of severe slips > in the Europa is never warranted. My experience with very clean planes, I > also have 1000 hours in my high performance glider and since the air > brakes work so well, severe slipping is not needed...though some less than > ultra clean gliders, ie, trainers, can make use of severe slipping! > . It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's accident was a result of this abrupt > spin stall characteristic in landing configuration. I have a rule (though > not unique), "never skid a turn", keeping a nice margin above stall. It > seems that the Europa (and probably all super clean planes, for instance > the Cirrus), have a propensity to severe stall spin in landing > configuration. I understand that many Europa pilots land with an airspeed > up to 65 but this uses a greater landing distance considering the stall > speed is in the 40's. Europa's original touted mission was short field, > pasture strips. For those who often use this short field capability, I > would like to know the particulars to make the Europa perform safely in > this manner. Not having piloted a Europa, but am close to finishing my > build, I am curious to these questions. > Bill McClellan > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics From: Robert Borger Bill, As others have pointed out, the stall characteristics depend entirely on the quality of the build. My Europa stalls straight ahead, flaps up or flaps down, with and without power. I have not yet attempted a "go around" stall with full power and flaps down but I suspect that it would fall off to the left due to torque. I have slipped my Europa in landing configuration, full flaps, and it slips quite well with lots of control on speed and descent rate. No aircraft stalls benignly in the skidding turn (classic overshoot base to final turn and try to hurry the turn with rudder). I've stalled an Aeronca, a C-150 and the Europa in a skidded turn and it's UGLY. Like a half snap roll into the down wing followed by a spin entry. Takes over 1000 feet to recover in any of those three aircraft. Good idea never to skid a turn. No severe stall in landing configuration in the Europa. The monowheel is perfectly at home on turf strips. I used 60 on short final, 50 "over the fence" then slow to 45 into a gentle flare and full stall touch down. You'll roll to a stop in well less than 100 meters. On hard surface, it's all different, even with the same sorts of speeds you will use more runway, both length and width. If you are completing a Europa monowheel, get some dual from someone with monowheel experience. It's a whole 'nother cat. Not like any other taildragger out there. It all changes when you are in a taildragger without differential breaking. If at all possible, work off grass for lots of hours first. Then more dual from someone experienced with a monowheel when it's time to work on hard surfaces. Be VERY aware of the winds, especially cross-winds, both on landing and takeoff. The Europa is a wonderful aircraft, a delight to fly, super economical but the monowheel is quirky on landing and takeoff. I hope this helps. Regards, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Aug 3, 2010, at 10:50, William McClellan wrote: > > I understand that the Europa is very prone to abruptly dropping a wing, trying to enter a spin, when stalled with full flaps in the landing configuration. On the other hand, in the clean, unflapped configuration the stall is very benign. I wonder if this is true of all Europa's or only some depending on the particulars of that builders end product and possible modifications. I have nearly 1000 hrs in a Citabria with very much of it flying into short "backcountry" dirt strips requiring significant STOL characteristics. I don't have flaps so regularly use severe straight and banked slips. The Citabria is a "dirty" plane compared to the "very clean" Europa so I believe the use of severe slips in the Europa is never warranted. My experience with very clean planes, I also have 1000 hours in my high performance glider and since the air brakes work so well, severe slipping is not needed...though some less than ultra clean gliders, ie, trainers, can make use of severe slippin g! > . It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's accident was a result of this abrupt spin stall characteristic in landing configuration. I have a rule (though not unique), "never skid a turn", keeping a nice margin above stall. It seems that the Europa (and probably all super clean planes, for instance the Cirrus), have a propensity to severe stall spin in landing configuration. I understand that many Europa pilots land with an airspeed up to 65 but this uses a greater landing distance considering the stall speed is in the 40's. Europa's original touted mission was short field, pasture strips. For those who often use this short field capability, I would like to know the particulars to make the Europa perform safely in this manner. Not having piloted a Europa, but am close to finishing my build, I am curious to these questions. > Bill McClellan > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Bill, We have slipped with both the short wings and the long. It does help increase sink rate, certainly not as effective as in a Citabria, of course. The air brakes on the MG wings are rather ineffective, compared to spoilers on other MGs. The get more dynamic range in drag during the landings, we use full airbrake and full rudder slips, at higher speeds (80 kts vs the usual 60 kts on final). The higher speed may seem counter intuitive to some, but drag goes up with the square of speed, as I recall. Regards, Terry Seaver -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William McClellan Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 8:50 AM Subject: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics I understand that the Europa is very prone to abruptly dropping a wing, trying to enter a spin, when stalled with full flaps in the landing configuration. On the other hand, in the clean, unflapped configuration the stall is very benign. I wonder if this is true of all Europa's or only some depending on the particulars of that builders end product and possible modifications. I have nearly 1000 hrs in a Citabria with very much of it flying into short "backcountry" dirt strips requiring significant STOL characteristics. I don't have flaps so regularly use severe straight and banked slips. The Citabria is a "dirty" plane compared to the "very clean" Europa so I believe the use of severe slips in the Europa is never warranted. My experience with very clean planes, I also have 1000 hours in my high performance glider and since the air brakes work so well, severe slipping is not needed...though some less than ultra clean gliders, ie, trainers, can make use of severe slipping! . It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's accident was a result of this abrupt spin stall characteristic in landing configuration. I have a rule (though not unique), "never skid a turn", keeping a nice margin above stall. It seems that the Europa (and probably all super clean planes, for instance the Cirrus), have a propensity to severe stall spin in landing configuration. I understand that many Europa pilots land with an airspeed up to 65 but this uses a greater landing distance considering the stall speed is in the 40's. Europa's original touted mission was short field, pasture strips. For those who often use this short field capability, I would like to know the particulars to make the Europa perform safely in this manner. Not having piloted a Europa, but am close to finishing my build, I am curious to these questions. Bill McClellan ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:35 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Stall spin characteristics From: "rparigoris" I remember reading of a Classic that had fairly benign stalls when straight ahead, but if pulling some Gs, it became a bit unwieldy. Ended up after studying wings, when wings would flex when pulling some Gs, the ailerons would droop a bit. This in effect washes in the wing. His resolution was to reflex both ailerons a bit and all was happy. Has anyone practiced stalls pulling some Gs (in a coordinated turn)? If unwieldy did you ever try re flexing ailerons a bit? If so how much and did it help? Thx. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307349#307349 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:36 PM PST US From: "Richard Churchill-Coleman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Teflon & Steel Pin Hinge: LAA Mod? Ian - thanks, guess I'll scrap that idea and get on with the build then! _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 02 August 2010 18:43 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Teflon & Steel Pin Hinge: LAA Mod? Richard As you know I keep an eye on what mods people are doing and I have not heard of anyone putting this mod to the LAA. What Andy has said seems to confirm this. It has come up in conversations but the opinions I have heard suggest that it is not a good idea. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com 07:35:00 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:16 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Stall spin characteristics From: "rampil" For excitement, try departure stalls with flaps and full power. I get a nice snap followed by entry into a tight spiral. It does not seem easy to make my aircraft develop a true spin. Slips for steep approach are very effective and easily controlled in the trigear. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307389#307389 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:41 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > If you are completing a Europa monowheel, get some dual from someone > with monowheel experience. It's a whole 'nother cat. Bob, ...jus curious...what is your tire pressure?...and, are your outrigger rod lengths such that, when your plane sits on level pavement with fuel but nobody onboard, your outrigger wheels touch the pavement?...or is there some side-to-side rocking? 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