---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/06/10: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:03 AM - Re: DOTH/Air Show Damyns Hall Sun 8th (John Wighton) 2. 01:44 PM - Re: DOTH/Air Show Damyns Hall Sun 8th (Raymond Wren) 3. 10:29 PM - Re: Stall spin characteristics (Ralph K. Hallett III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:15 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: DOTH/Air Show Damyns Hall Sun 8th From: "John Wighton" Paddy, Sounds good, be aware that you can get down drafts on short final approach for 21 . It is my birthday, so l guess l might be good for 'day release papers'. Regards John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307749#307749 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:32 PM PST US From: "Raymond Wren" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH/Air Show Damyns Hall Sun 8th Hi Paddy, I've booked the Liberty, see you Sunday. Regards Ray -- raymondwren@fastmail.co.uk ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:29:00 PM PST US From: "Ralph K. Hallett III" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics Bud, Nicely put! Thank you. Ralph On 8/5/2010 7:07 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > Not to but in, but... > You fliers are doing a great job of what the problems of stall in the > Europa are. Basically, none. Many thanks for good comments and > techniques. > I have, like Bob, flown a number of different Europa's and stalled > them all. Side slips are pleasant using a foot full of rudder. Keep > the speed up at 1.3Vs if slipping is my rule. Remember, someone cares > if you are dead. > As for stalls: Climb up about three mistakes high (3000 AGL) > Trim for pattern speed of about 80. Put one finger on the front of > the stick and line up with a cloud on the horizon. Pull the power > back and smoothly pull back attempting to hold altitude, and keep it > pointed at the cloud. The plane, if in the 60-61 inch CG when empty, > properly built within .1 degree equal incidence and no droopy > controls, will rumble slightly just prior to the stall, the nose will > go up just a bit and then down, and bob up and down. I don't even > need the ball. But it is nice to have a whiskey ball rather than one > of those electric orange dots on an EFIS. > The laminar flow wing will bite you if you release the stick just a > bit as the nose rises in the approach to the stall break, and you > abruptly pull it right back. Most laminar flow wing aircraft will > drop a wing instantly as it is a deep stall of one wing. This usually > occurs when you have a death grip on the stick and can't feel a > thing. Relaxed, and paying attention to your duties, you feel the > plane get light in the nose, and directional control starts to wander > a tiny bit, and you can release pressure and maintain control. > Fully configured the rumble is less pronounced due to the flap burble > and it can surprise the unaware pilot who attempts a slow speed abrupt > maneuver. The wing drop is pretty fast again, and you will achieve 90 > degrees in less than a 1/2 second. > Unload for control, and it instantly stops in any configuration. Then > recover. > The 40 hour fly off, as they fliers commented on, is to fine tune your > aircraft and get its feel. Stall strips depicted in the operators > manual are excellent stall warnings. So are electronic devices, but > none as good as a well flown test series of stalls, slips and slow > flight done at least 3 mistakes high to feel your aircraft. > I added vortex generators to my Classic which normally stalls at a > Calibrated A/S of 55 at 1370 lbs. Dead straight ahead stall. With > the VGs over the ailerons only, the plane wing rocks like a century > series fighter and the burble is a pounding on the tail plane that is > quite a wake up shake. The wing rock is probably too much for a > novice and could lead to an abrupt wing drop if he attempts to jamb in > aileron to keep it level. > With VGs all along the LE of the wing from the tip to two feet prior > to the fuselage (so I can get my butt on the wing) the burble is quite > pronounced (due to the clean root) and the stall is 46 Kts CAS clean > at 1320 lbs. One problem with the VGs. The plane feels so rock solid > slow, that one can get complacent and find himself out of airspeed and > ideas (falling with style). I prefer the stall strips neatly blended > into the leading edge at the root as a nice reminder that I am not > paying attention to job one, that is, flying the plane, as it is > supposed to be, by the number in the book. VGs work great but look > like a bad hair day on the wing. > New guys, there is no excuse: > Runway-airspeed are the two calls around the pattern. Fly by the > numbers. If you have to be abrupt in moving the plane, go around and > do it again. If it doesn't look right, it isn't. And there is no > substitute for airspeed. Practice in some ones well built Europa to > get a feel. > If you have a short field and must get close to your stall margin, > stay sharp, and be cautious. If you don't feel like Steve Canyon that > day, land somewhere else. Don't slow down until you have the runway > made. Don't force the plane on the ground. Keep you energy up until > crossing the fence, and allow for a slow speed bleed off into a slow > flight attitude crossing the threshold and continue to hold it just an > inch or two above the runway until it settles. Better to land 300 > feet down on speed than 15 hot at the threshold and bounce. Tail wheel > guys just keep the stick back, rudder to stay straight and fly it to > parking. > Most of the time I cruise the Europa with my hand off the stick and > fly with my feet. This is a great rudder airplane, a stable airplane, > and has superb flight and stall characteristics. If it is bent or > crooked, we can help you straighten it out. > Like Ferg eluded to, the controller doesn't fly your plane. Don't let > them put you into a position you are not comfortable with. If the > controllers get mad, buy them a cup of coffee and and tell them you > are alive, and that was more important than stalling and crashing at > the time. Know your plane and your limits. > Airspeed is life. > Bud > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Fergus Kyle > *To:* 5EUROPALIST > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:21 PM > *Subject:* Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics > > William: > > ". It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's accident was a result of > this abrupt spin stall characteristic in landing configuration. I > have a rule (though not unique), "never skid a turn", keeping a > nice margin above stall. It seems that the Europa (and probably > all super clean planes, for instance the Cirrus), have a > propensity to severe stall spin in landing configuration. " > > I am tempted to agree with much of what you say. It has been my > contention that Oshkosh makles demands with which that many junior > pilots shouldn't comply. One of these is a short final with multi > bank when the authority calls for a wing-wag when inside rudder is > correcting for runway centreline. There's the critical inside > rudder/inside bank pair which prompts the inner wing stall. From > there on down is mathematical. > > Know your plane, > > Cheers > > ferg > > Ps: Rudder OFF first before aileron.............. > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > > * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.