Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:20 AM - Re: MG Airbrake question (Kaarsberg)
2. 04:32 AM - 82 UL MOGAS (Guerner Remi)
3. 04:53 AM - Cooling modifications (Guerner Remi)
4. 05:49 AM - Re: MG Airbrake question (Karl Heindl)
5. 05:50 AM - Re: Fw: Cooling modifications (Jan de Jong)
6. 06:08 AM - Re: Europa Sounds in Flight (david miller)
7. 06:23 AM - Re: Fw: Cooling modifications (Frans Veldman)
8. 06:41 AM - Re: Cooling modifications (Frans Veldman)
9. 06:52 AM - Re: 82 UL MOGAS (Frans Veldman)
10. 07:24 AM - Re: 82 UL MOGAS (Frans Veldman)
11. 07:57 AM - Re: Europa Sounds in Flight (JEFF ROBERTS)
12. 08:02 AM - Re: Europa Sounds in Flight (Jeff B)
13. 08:24 AM - Rough River Up-Date # 11 (JEFF ROBERTS)
14. 08:43 AM - Cool Europa sound (Jeff B)
15. 08:47 AM - 82UL Mogas (Guerner Remi)
16. 09:43 AM - Re: 82UL Mogas (Frans Veldman)
17. 10:08 AM - Re: MG Airbrake question (Terry Seaver (terrys))
18. 11:53 AM - Re: MG Airbrake question (Karl Heindl)
19. 01:14 PM - Re: 82 UL MOGAS (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
20. 01:25 PM - FW: G-PTAG Video (Robert C Harrison)
21. 01:25 PM - Re: MG Airbrake question (Terry Seaver (terrys))
22. 01:38 PM - Torque Tube clamps.... Pardon the advert but.... if needs must! (Robert C Harrison)
23. 01:51 PM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 08/29/10 (EMAproducts@aol.com)
24. 02:02 PM - Re: FW: G-PTAG Video (Jeff B)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: MG Airbrake question |
Speed brakes such as those fitted on a Caravelle was full of holes,
this provided for more turbulence and hence resistance per square inch
of surface in the wind.
Alex, kit 529
Enviado de meu iPhone
Em 29/08/2010, =C3-s 00:50, Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> escreveu:
>
> Hi motorglider guys.
>
> Has anyone made any changes to their airbrakes ? I find they
> requires a lot of force to hold them in the fully open position. The
> air pressure on the bottom half far exceeds that on the top.
> Because of that it is also impossible to get the maximum deflection
> of 60 degrees. I mounted an angle indicator, and it shows about
> 45-50, which severely degrades their performance.
> I don't understand why nothing was ever done about this. They have
> been producing these wings for about 11 years now.
> The obvious solution to me is to reduce the area of the bottom half,
> either by putting in holes, or trimming back the trailing edge.
> These brakes are not really necessary with the engine running, but
> are essential when I get to making dead stick landings.
>
> Karl
>
>
Message 2
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Frans,
"One way to increase the octane rating is by... adding ethanol. "
In France, 98 Mogas has no ethanol while 95 contains about 4%. So I
prefer using 98.
"There is no benefit to use higher octane ratings than the engine
needs. "
One benefit is to provide additional margin against detonation, which
is critical especially with the 914.
"I always use Euro 95 fuel, and never experienced any problems with it."
I understand your experience with the Europa/914 combination is
limited to a few dozens hours, right? Be careful, you do not know you
have detonation until you find a melted piston or broken piston rings.
I know: this happened to me!
Regards
Remi
Message 3
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Subject: | Cooling modifications |
Frans,
Having done some cowling mods myself with mitigated results, I am
following your cooling modifications with great interest.
A major problem with the cooling system on the Europa is overheating
on the ground, which leads to boil over, unless you are using the
Evans stuff.
Have you done any testing simulating a long wait at the holding point
in the summer heat? Is your CHT stabilizing in these conditions?
Remi
Message 4
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Subject: | MG Airbrake question |
Alex=2C
If the holes increase drag=2C then it is the last thing I should be doing ?
I guess I'll find out by experimenting.
Karl
From: kaarsberg@terra.com.br
Subject: Re: Europa-List: MG Airbrake question
Speed brakes such as those fitted on a Caravelle was full of holes=2C this
provided for more turbulence and hence resistance per square inch of surfac
e in the wind.
Alex=2C kit 529
Enviado de meu iPhone
Em 29/08/2010=2C =E0s 00:50=2C Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> escreveu:
Hi motorglider guys.
Has anyone made any changes to their airbrakes ? I find they requires a lot
of force to hold them in the fully open position. The air pressure on the
bottom half far exceeds that on the top.Because of that it is also impossib
le to get the maximum deflection of 60 degrees. I mounted an angle indicato
r=2C and it shows about 45-50=2C which severely degrades their performance.
I don't understand why nothing was ever done about this. They have been pro
ducing these wings for about 11 years now.The obvious solution to me is to
reduce the area of the bottom half=2C either by putting in holes=2C or trim
ming back the trailing edge.These brakes are not really necessary with the
engine running=2C but are essential when I get to making dead stick landing
s.
Karl
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fwd: Cooling modifications |
Hi Frans,
Very interesting.
You did not mention, I think, the cooling role of your exhaust augmenter...
Jan
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Europa Sounds in Flight |
Hi Troy,
A friend is in the habit of overflying my place in his 914 mono,
normally to indicate that I should be flying rather than doing yard
work.
His plane has a unique sound and even my wife can recognize when he
is approaching.
There is a sort of whistle generated, which I put down to airflow or
turbo and the fact that the aircraft is much quieter than your
average factory built,
so you can actually hear sounds other than the engine.
Years ago a friend and I built a Marske flying wing glider, it too
had a very distinctive whistle in flight, one of many odd traits of
the aircraft !
Dave C-FBZI
On 29-Aug-10, at 9:04 PM, Troy Maynor wrote:
> Hi All,
> Long ago in the original Europa factory video, there is a segment
> where the two factory planes do a low pass. When they pull up and
> bank you can hear a whirring sound or a cry similar to the sound a
> bird or something. I know this may sound ridiculous but maybe some
> of you have heard it yourself. I watched a short clip of my Europa
> do a fast low pass last Thursday and heard it coming from mine
> also. You can't detect anything inside the cockpit that I'm aware
> of, and I'm certain I didn't go supersonic. The first time I flew
> over my brothers home a couple months ago his wife later said (with
> an unknowing worried look on her face) that she had heard a
> screaking sound. At the time I didn't lend much creedance to her
> comment. It happened again while flying over another friends house,
> so now I am curious. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it coming
> from the engine? Prop? Somewhere along the airframe? I don't think
> it's anything to worry about but I just want to know if others have
> heard this. On all occasions, the aircraft was in a banking climb.
> It actually sounded pretty cool. Just wondering....
>
> Troy Maynor
> Monowheel Classic UK120
> 47 fun hours so far!
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Fwd: Cooling modifications |
On 08/30/2010 02:49 PM, Jan de Jong wrote:
> Very interesting.
> You did not mention, I think, the cooling role of your exhaust augmenter...
That's right. But that thing is mainly helpfull to keep some air flow
through the cowling while on the ground, when there is otherwise no
meaningfull natural air flow. I think that during flight the effect is
neglible, but on the ground its effect is noticable.
Frans
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Cooling modifications |
On 08/30/2010 01:52 PM, Guerner Remi wrote:
> A major problem with the cooling system on the Europa is overheating on
> the ground, which leads to boil over, unless you are using the Evans stuff.
> Have you done any testing simulating a long wait at the holding point in
> the summer heat? Is your CHT stabilizing in these conditions?
It appears the CHT is stabilizing well before the red line, also in
summer conditions in France. Again the major contributor was destacking
the radiators, so that a reasonable airflow is possible even with just
prop wash.
Another important thing is that the air inlet is much lower on the
cowling, where the prop wash is more significant.
Also my cowl flap design is helpfull: fully open it creates a low
pressure area at the air outlet.
And finally, I built an exhaust augmentor that uses the exhaust to
extract air from the cowling.
Frans
Message 9
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On 08/30/2010 01:28 PM, Guerner Remi wrote:
> "One way to increase the octane rating is by... adding ethanol. "
> In France, 98 Mogas has no ethanol while 95 contains about 4%. So I
> prefer using 98.
Well, this is confusing. Especially for our flight in France we did some
research, and found out that 98 contains more ethanol, as ethanol is a
cheap octane riser. So in France we tried to stay away from 98 and tried
to get 95 octane fuel instead as much as possible, because it should
contain less ethanol.
Do you have any references to information which states otherwise?
> "There is no benefit to use higher octane ratings than the engine needs. "
> One benefit is to provide additional margin against detonation, which is
> critical especially with the 914.
I have a 914. But octane 95 provides sufficient margin. It doesn't make
sense to create a higher margin over the point where detonation simply
can not occur. Take in mind that the 914 has quite some protection
against that, with a TCU that lowers the boost pressure if the air inlet
temperature becomes too high, etc.
> "I always use Euro 95 fuel, and never experienced any problems with it."
> I understand your experience with the Europa/914 combination is limited
> to a few dozens hours, right?
Yes, but the local glider club uses a 914 powered Dimona to tow gliders
all day long. They are non stop using full power to get the gliders up
to about 2000 feet, dive down and tow up the next glider. The engine has
been overhauled twice after reaching the TBO using it this way, so the
engines easily reach TBO without damage.
They only use octane 95 fuel...
> Be careful, you do not know you have
> detonation until you find a melted piston or broken piston rings. I
> know: this happened to me!
Can you tell me more about this, under which circumstances this happened?
Thanks,
Frans
Message 10
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On 08/30/2010 01:28 PM, Guerner Remi wrote:
> I understand your experience with the Europa/914 combination is limited
> to a few dozens hours, right? Be careful, you do not know you have
> detonation until you find a melted piston or broken piston rings.
It is my understanding (but I can be wrong) that detonation usually
destroys an engine *quickly*. We are talking here about minutes, if not
seconds. If an engine lasts a few dozen hours, you can be pretty sure
that detonation is not in the equation, or am I wrong here?
If an engine that lasted a few dozen hours suddenly gets destroyed due
to detonation, there is usually a reason for it. An ignition timing that
went off time, a fuel mixture that went to lean (clogged fuel filter or
carb?) a sudden rise in boost pressure (are you sure you didn't
experience a sticky waste gate?), etc.
I think it is unlikely that Euro 95 is able to destroy a Rotax 914
*slowly*. But of course if someone can explain me how this is possible,
I would be gratefull. I don't want to destroy my 914 after all! ;-)
Frans
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Europa Sounds in Flight |
Troy,
The next time your at an air show pay special attention to the
original mustang during it's fly by or especially during it's dive.
Very similar except much louder. A friend of mine thats flown
everything but the sink including the mustang has told me that Gold
Rush has that sound... except much quieter. Maybe we should have
called it little tang!
See ya at RR!
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:21 AM, david miller wrote:
> Hi Troy,
>
> A friend is in the habit of overflying my place in his 914 mono,
> normally to indicate that I should be flying rather than doing yard
> work.
> His plane has a unique sound and even my wife can recognize when he
> is approaching.
> There is a sort of whistle generated, which I put down to airflow or
> turbo and the fact that the aircraft is much quieter than your
> average factory built,
> so you can actually hear sounds other than the engine.
> Years ago a friend and I built a Marske flying wing glider, it too
> had a very distinctive whistle in flight, one of many odd traits of
> the aircraft !
>
> Dave C-FBZI
> On 29-Aug-10, at 9:04 PM, Troy Maynor wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>> Long ago in the original Europa factory video, there is a segment
>> where the two factory planes do a low pass. When they pull up and
>> bank you can hear a whirring sound or a cry similar to the sound a
>> bird or something. I know this may sound ridiculous but maybe some
>> of you have heard it yourself. I watched a short clip of my Europa
>> do a fast low pass last Thursday and heard it coming from mine
>> also. You can't detect anything inside the cockpit that I'm aware
>> of, and I'm certain I didn't go supersonic. The first time I flew
>> over my brothers home a couple months ago his wife later said (with
>> an unknowing worried look on her face) that she had heard a
>> screaking sound. At the time I didn't lend much creedance to her
>> comment. It happened again while flying over another friends house,
>> so now I am curious. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it coming
>> from the engine? Prop? Somewhere along the airframe? I don't think
>> it's anything to worry about but I just want to know if others have
>> heard this. On all occasions, the aircraft was in a banking climb.
>> It actually sounded pretty cool. Just wondering....
>>
>> Troy Maynor
>> Monowheel Classic UK120
>> 47 fun hours so far!
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
>> www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Europa Sounds in Flight |
I occasionally fly over my brother's place and he commented "I can
always tell when it's you. No other airplane sounds like yours."
I have a short video of Baby Blue taking off from Rough River. It does
sound really cool... I'll see if I can dig it up and make it available
for viewing...
Jeff - Baby Blue
500+ hours
On 8/30/2010 8:21 AM, david miller wrote:
> Hi Troy,
>
> A friend is in the habit of overflying my place in his 914 mono,
> normally to indicate that I should be flying rather than doing yard work.
> His plane has a unique sound and even my wife can recognize when he is
> approaching.
> There is a sort of whistle generated, which I put down to airflow or
> turbo and the fact that the aircraft is much quieter than your average
> factory built,
> so you can actually hear sounds other than the engine.
> Years ago a friend and I built a Marske flying wing glider, it too had a
> very distinctive whistle in flight, one of many odd traits of the aircraft !
>
> Dave C-FBZI
> On 29-Aug-10, at 9:04 PM, Troy Maynor wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>> Long ago in the original Europa factory video, there is a segment
>> where the two factory planes do a low pass. When they pull up and bank
>> you can hear a whirring sound or a cry similar to the sound a bird or
>> something. I know this may sound ridiculous but maybe some of you have
>> heard it yourself. I watched a short clip of my Europa do a fast low
>> pass last Thursday and heard it coming from mine also. You can't
>> detect anything inside the cockpit that I'm aware of, and I'm certain
>> I didn't go supersonic. The first time I flew over my brothers home a
>> couple months ago his wife later said (with an unknowing worried look
>> on her face) that she had heard a screaking sound. At the time I
>> didn't lend much creedance to her comment. It happened again while
>> flying over another friends house, so now I am curious. Has anyone
>> else experienced this? Is it coming from the engine? Prop? Somewhere
>> along the airframe? I don't think it's anything to worry about but I
>> just want to know if others have heard this. On all occasions, the
>> aircraft was in a banking climb. It actually sounded pretty cool. Just
>> wondering....
>> Troy Maynor
>> Monowheel Classic UK120
>> 47 fun hours so far!
>> *
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Rough River Up-Date # 11 |
More builders are coming. Latest additions.
Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in.
Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In
Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o)..
Jim & Lynne Puglise - Driving the air conditioned control tower, beer
bar, meeting place/motor home. ;o)
Fred Kline.... All the way from Orcas Island, WA
John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa
Bob & Maureen Borger N914XL Flying In from Texas in... Little Dragon
Lady.
Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl
mods ready.
Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in
Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud!
Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob. Flying up with Bud in formation. Keep
em separate boys!
John & Paddy Wigney - Flying in the good ship N262WF
Jim Woolnough - Via the big metal and driving from Louisville.
Creighton Smith A-036 - Via the big metal with Jim... Welcome aboard
mates!
Plus as you all know... here are some fun loving, die hard, Europa
owners / fans / previous dealer from California! Bring em on boys!
Bob Lindsay - Flying in N77EU Turbo Toy. Flight of 3 maybe 4
Erich Trombley - Flying in N28ET Classic mono 914. Flight of 3 maybe 4
Kim Prout - Flying in N111EU The classic mono featured in July Kit
Planes Magazine Flight of 3 maybe 4
And Here's to Kevin Klinefelter N211KA getting in on the fun!! Let us
know Kevin when you can... Maybe the 4th of the 3 ;0)
Annual Rough River Fly In. September 17th & 18th 2010 and beyond!
Jeff R.
Message 14
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Subject: | Cool Europa sound |
Here's the link to the Baby Blue video. It's 4+mb, so be patient...
http://www.rmholsters.com/europa/babybluetakeoff.wmv
You're right, Jeff. It does kinda sound like mini P51...
Jeff
Message 15
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Frans,
Attached are the data sheets for SP95 and SP98 available in France.
Unfortunately you cannot rely on this specs to determine the actual
rate of ethanol as they provide maximum contents only.
The informations I provided are the results of my own measurements
using the well known "test tube with water" method. Again, at this
time, they show about 4% in SP95 and nome in SP98. On the rare french
airports which deliver Mogas, they switched from 95 to 98 for that
reason.
Remi
Message 16
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On 08/30/2010 05:46 PM, Guerner Remi wrote:
> The informations I provided are the results of my own measurements
> using the well known "test tube with water" method. Again, at this time,
> they show about 4% in SP95 and nome in SP98. On the rare french airports
> which deliver Mogas, they switched from 95 to 98 for that reason.
Thanks a lot for this info! I understood that the quality of fuel in
France depends a lot where you buy it.
When we visit Ilona's parents, who live close to Barcelonnette, we make
a fuel stop in Troyes where we tank AVGAS, and in Barcelonnette we
usually buy fuel at a fuel station (the airport is often out of AVGAS
anyway).
Next time we will buy 98 octane!
Thanks,
Frans
Message 17
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Subject: | MG Airbrake question |
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Message 18
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Subject: | MG Airbrake question |
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Message 19
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Hi Frans
I am pretty sure you are thinking ofpre-ignition
that is the real killer. It isa disorderlycombustion of the
fuel- air mixture that will take an engine and quicklyforce it to
play the song "silentNight".Detonation is much less
sinister but over time will cause damage. In an automobile you can hear it
as marbles when you step on the accelerator, anti-knock sensors can adjust
to stop it. If you don't stop the pinging on something that runs at a high
power setting for long periods of time it will do no good for long engine
life. Plugs, valves and pistons will suffer.
Ron Parigoris
Message 20
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Subject: | FW: G-PTAG Video |
Hi! Jeff B et al
My good friend Ivor Phillips G-IVER took a video clip of me with G-PTAG
departing Mollis (LSMF) from the Swiss EAA Rally a week ago.
I was at MTOW so was a little slow to retract the flaps. The youtube clip
can be seen below.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
_____
From: ivor phillips [mailto:g-iver@live.co.uk]
Sent: 26 August 2010 14:11
Subject: G-PTAG Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V3IGYxUih0
Hi Bob I put this on youtube but i can give you a copy if you need it,
Best wishes
Ivor
Message 21
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Subject: | MG Airbrake question |
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Message 22
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Subject: | Torque Tube clamps.... Pardon the advert but.... if needs |
must!
Hi! All.
Please excuse my advertising but it is relevant to most on the Europa Forum.
I'm getting a trickle of dissatisfied "Loctite Mod." people requiring my
Torque Tube clamp mod. and am about to commence with another batch, anyone
in "dithering" mode should now "grasp the nettle" and place an order as soon
as possible, please. (no disrespect intended!)
Regards
Bob Harrison .
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 08/29/10 |
SOUNDS IN FLIGHT
Troy,
Don't recall any special noises from my friends Europa Mono gear, however
many planes have the "special noises associated with them such as the Piper
Comanche PA-24's which whistled loud and clear.
Good to see you are enjoying the efforts of your labor!
Elbie Mendenhall
EM aviation
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: FW: G-PTAG Video |
Yep, there's that Europa sound. Thanks for the link, Bob...
Jeff - Baby Blue
On 8/30/2010 3:23 PM, Robert C Harrison wrote:
> Hi! Jeff B et al
> My good friend Ivor Phillips G-IVER took a video clip of me with G-PTAG
> departing Mollis (LSMF) from the Swiss EAA Rally a week ago.
> I was at MTOW so was a little slow to retract the flaps. The youtube clip
> can be seen below.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> _____
>
> From: ivor phillips [mailto:g-iver@live.co.uk]
> Sent: 26 August 2010 14:11
> To: Bob harrison
> Subject: G-PTAG Video
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V3IGYxUih0
>
>
> Hi Bob I put this on youtube but i can give you a copy if you need it,
> Best wishes
> Ivor
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
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