---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/06/10: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:46 AM - Re: 6 Nations Tour (paul atkinson) 2. 09:50 AM - Auto-pilot servos (Rick Sivier) 3. 10:22 AM - Rotax/Dynon RPM (Fergus Kyle) 4. 12:44 PM - Re: Texel Fly-in Sept 17-19 2010 (John Wighton) 5. 12:44 PM - Re: Rotax/Dynon RPM (PHILLIPS I) 6. 01:43 PM - Batteries and fuel systems (William Daniell) 7. 02:01 PM - Re: Batteries and fuel systems (Frans Veldman) 8. 02:34 PM - Re: Batteries and fuel systems (G-IANI) 9. 03:08 PM - Re: Batteries and fuel systems (William Daniell) 10. 03:39 PM - Re: Batteries and fuel systems (Frans Veldman) 11. 04:40 PM - Re: Batteries and fuel systems (Robert C Harrison) 12. 05:08 PM - Re: Batteries and fuel systems (rparigoris) 13. 07:40 PM - Re: Re: Batteries and fuel systems (William Daniell) 14. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Fw: RR Up-Date #13 Dog & Poney Show (Michael Grass) 15. 10:39 PM - Re: SV: Front wheel wobbling (europapa) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:04 AM PST US From: "paul atkinson" Subject: RE: Europa-List: 6 Nations Tour David Have a look at Zell am See, www.flugplatz-zellamsee.at. It is surrounded by mountains up to 10000' but the valley is wide so departure and arrival routes are straightforward. It has a hard runway and a grass strip mainly used for gliding. There is a decent restaurant on the airfield. Plenty of accommodation within 3km and reasonable at the moment, and many restaurants. Cheers Paul Atkinson -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Sent: 05 September 2010 18:49 Subject: Europa-List: 6 Nations Tour The 6Ns trip is due off next Saturday and we are thinking (weather willing) of going down through France, across Switzerland, into Austria, possibly to Budapest (Budaors), then through Czech Republic & Germany to end up at Texel I have stopped off in all these countries, but would welcome any suggestions/inside knowledge of nice and preferably not too expensive stop over places, that we might not have visited before. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:09 AM PST US From: "Rick Sivier" Subject: Europa-List: Auto-pilot servos Folks I am getting started on my cockpit module and as I want to install an auto-pilot, I am planning to buy and install the servos whilst everything is easily accessible. My thinking at the moment is to buy Trio servos as these seem to be well supported by the various EFIS manufacturers. I have a couple of questions: firstly, are Trio as good as their web site says they are? And secondly, there is an option on the Trio to have auto trim adjustment - is this worth having and is it approved by the LAA as part of the auto-pilot mod? Cheers Rick ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:51 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Rotax/Dynon RPM Having spent a futile 42 minutes attempting to find a UserName which would equip me to explore the insides of Dynon lists, I am begging info on the combination subject above. I found nothing to indicate compatability in the Europa 914 kit manual, nothing in the Rotax manual (perhaps I'm amiss there) and can't seem to address their technical staff directly - how wise they are . But someone out there must have attempted to marry the two successfully and I'd like to lope along in copying the task. Does any on list know the secret of the 914 "rev counter" output, and is it compatable with the Dynon RPM acceptance standards? [i.e: Can I just hook 'em up and get a Dynon reading? I apologise if this means I've ignored previous discussion. Cheers Ferg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:46 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Texel Fly-in Sept 17-19 2010 From: "John Wighton" Chaps (and Chapesses), As a newby to this European touring lark it would be great to have some info from others about routing. As G-IPOD has just undergone (under going actually) a mild panel re-fit, the direct sea crossing is a bit daunting. Maybe flying in loose formation would make it less of a strain? How are other UK based Europas routing to Texel? I guess l could join Mr Joyce's 6Ns tour and get there the long way around!!! Weather may be a little iffy - hopefully September will win through again. Regards JW G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311558#311558 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax/Dynon RPM From: PHILLIPS I Yes it isnt a problem Ferg http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl Is the Dynon link with links to the current manuals, Should give you every thing you need, If not email me direct and i will sort out the correct connections and setu p with the dynon and 914 regards Ivor On 6 September 2010 18:19, Fergus Kyle wrote: > Having spent a futile 42 minutes attempting to find a UserName > which would equip me to explore the insides of Dynon lists, I am begging > info on the combination subject above. I found nothing to indicate > compatability in the Europa 914 kit manual, nothing in the Rotax manual > (perhaps I=92m amiss there) and can=92t seem to address their technical s taff > directly ' how wise they are . > > But someone out there must have attempted to marry the two > successfully and I=92d like to lope along in copying the task. Does any o n > list know the secret of the 914 =93rev counter=94 output, and is it compa table > with the Dynon RPM acceptance standards? > > [i.e: Can I just hook =91em up and get a Dynon reading? > > I apologise if this means I=92ve ignored previous discussion. > > Cheers Ferg > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:28 PM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems Two questions for the assembled wisdom 1. Has anyone installed a larger battery with the 914 on the basis that you might need to run the fuel pumps off it if the alternator gives up? 2. Does anyone have a pic of their fuel pump installation/fuel system? Thanks Will > * > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:51 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems On 09/06/2010 10:34 PM, William Daniell wrote: > 1. Has anyone installed a larger battery with the 914 on the basis > that you might need to run the fuel pumps off it if the alternator > gives up? It takes less weight to install a secondary alternator (ACS has nice ones that fit on the vacuum pump pad) so you never have to use the batteries during flight and hence the batteries can be very light. You can use the secondary alternator to power the second fuel pump, or you can create a completely dual electrical system, and spread the load over both buses and create redundancy for nav, com, and other essential equipment. I have done the latter. I use an 8 Ah Odyssey battery and this is more than sufficient for starting. Talk about weight savings! ;-) Also, there is a mechanical fuel pump available for the 914. Bob Borger can tell you more about it. In this case the engine no longer depends on the electrical system. Installing a larger battery is the heaviest solution, and as you can never know how much capacity the battery has (due to aging, or incomplete charging) it is not a reliable solution and leaves you guessing how long it will be able to keep the engine running. Frans ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:39 PM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems Will Attached is a picture of the fuel pump setup for G-IRON Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 06 September 2010 21:34 Subject: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems Two questions for the assembled wisdom 1. Has anyone installed a larger battery with the 914 on the basis that you might need to run the fuel pumps off it if the alternator gives up? 2. Does anyone have a pic of their fuel pump installation/fuel system? Thanks Will ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:06 PM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:47 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems On 09/06/2010 11:27 PM, G-IANI wrote: > Attached is a picture of the fuel pump setup for G-IRON Nice! I love that manifold you created. But I can't help noticing that the springs inside the filters are missing. ;-) Furthermore, I would recommend to use two separate electrical connectors for the fuel pumps. It even looks like both pumps share a common ground wire... and this makes the system very vulnerable for a single point failure. After all, the whole point of having two fuel pumps and two filters is to eliminate single point failures as much as possible. As connectors are known for their high failure rate I would highly recommend to separate all the wires and connectors for the fuel pumps as much as possible! You are going to hate it if this single connector fails due to some minor corrosion while you are flying over the channel, taking both fuel pumps out of the equation at the same time... Frans ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:01 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems Attention Will Daniels. Hi! Will. I think it should be said that the picture shown by Ian Rickard does comply with the fuel flow diagram suggested by the Europa Engineers and can be worked entirely by rubber pipes therefore excluding the specially made manifold as shown. However mine is the same in modular form but for the fact that my filters on G-PTAG consist of two Mini-Andair Gascolators situated between the module and the tank exits. and arranged to allow easy sampling from the belly of the aircraft of both gascolators. Also I have the Graham Singleton tank connectors which easily facilitate water drains from each side of the saddle tank. However from bitter experience I have also incorporated a tank top access panel (allowing annual inspection and mop out capability) whilst fitting the fuel depth gauge. Care needs exercising as to how the two pumps are circuited for power to ensure real redundancy Also the positioning of diodes on each pump is very relevant. Best regards Bob Harrison. G-PTAG _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 06 September 2010 22:27 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems Will Attached is a picture of the fuel pump setup for G-IRON Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 06 September 2010 21:34 Subject: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems Two questions for the assembled wisdom 1. Has anyone installed a larger battery with the 914 on the basis that you might need to run the fuel pumps off it if the alternator gives up? 2. Does anyone have a pic of their fuel pump installation/fuel system? Thanks Will http://www.matron================== http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c= ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:33 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Batteries and fuel systems From: "rparigoris" Hi Will 914 fuel system: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=28612 http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=28355 http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=27522 Using a PC545: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=30710 Also a 2.2 amp total loss NiMh battery: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=30502 Using a SD20S as mail alternator on vacuum pad and a LR3C regulator: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=28318 Hope that helps. Ron Parigoris BTW PTAG, I was cleaning kitchen floor yesterday and washing off mop in kitchen sink. we have a yellow lab. Anyway it didn't take long for the strainer to get clogged. after a while the dog hair began to get few and far between. I decided to try an experiment, I made a template to only expose a 3/16" hole. Dog hair had no problem with just a fews hairs that would somehow lay across 3/16" hole and after a while just clog it. I tried putting a fine screen over intake and after a while it would clog. I tried a course screen and it would allow hairs to get through and clog the 3/16" outlet. I even left the drain wide opened which was about a 1" opening that had a thin cross over it with a ~ 3/16" hole in the center. Dog hair would clog that as well after a while. Bottom line dog hair is bad stuff to get in your tank. I don't think not having a screen on tank outlets will save you by just passing hair through to filter, it will create a net and then catches debris and other hair like a magnet. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311610#311610 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:40 PM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Batteries and fuel systems thanks - oh boy and I have 4 of them! Labs I mean. rparigoris wrote: > > Hi Will > > 914 fuel system: > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=28612 > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=28355 > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=27522 > > Using a PC545: > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=30710 > > Also a 2.2 amp total loss NiMh battery: > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=30502 > > Using a SD20S as mail alternator on vacuum pad and a LR3C regulator: > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=28318 > > Hope that helps. > Ron Parigoris > > BTW PTAG, I was cleaning kitchen floor yesterday and washing off mop in kitchen sink. we have a yellow lab. Anyway it didn't take long for the strainer to get clogged. after a while the dog hair began to get few and far between. I decided to try an experiment, I made a template to only expose a 3/16" hole. Dog hair had no problem with just a fews hairs that would somehow lay across 3/16" hole and after a while just clog it. > I tried putting a fine screen over intake and after a while it would clog. I tried a course screen and it would allow hairs to get through and clog the 3/16" outlet. > I even left the drain wide opened which was about a 1" opening that had a thin cross over it with a ~ 3/16" hole in the center. Dog hair would clog that as well after a while. > Bottom line dog hair is bad stuff to get in your tank. I don't think not having a screen on tank outlets will save you by just passing hair through to filter, it will create a net and then catches debris and other hair like a magnet. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311610#311610 > > > . > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:30 PM PST US From: "Michael Grass" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fwd: RR Up-Date #13 Dog & Poney Show Jeff, Does not take much arm twisting here to convince me. Actually I think this is just the right medicine in need. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEFF ROBERTS" Sent: 2010-09-05 21:31 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fwd: RR Up-Date #13 Dog & Poney Show > > Glad to see your coming Michael. I have just the motivation needed. How > bout a little time in a Europa? > Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush > > > On Sep 5, 2010, at 7:52 PM, Michael Grass wrote: > >> > >> >> I am planning to arrive right in time for lunch on Saturday with my old >> (and slow) C150. Looks like I will camping right under my wing. All >> depends on weather of course. >> Hopefully I wont miss to much of the very interesting topics. >> >> Michael Grass >> A286 Trigear, Detroit >> >> Building paused for more then a year now and in desperate need for >> motivation again. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "h&jeuropa" >> To: >> Sent: 2010-09-05 09:51 >> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fwd: RR Up-Date #13 Dog & Poney Show >> >> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Seems like most are planning to arrive Friday, so meetings could be on >>> Saturday. Some topics lend themselves to discussions around an >>> airplane, i.e. cooling issues, AirMaster Prop, VG install, Billet Fuel >>> Pump. Others (MG, fuel safety, fuel injection) would be better in a >>> meeting room. Perhaps we could have a couple of informal sessions at >>> the airstrip, maybe Saturday morning after breakfast (9:30 am?) and >>> after lunch (1:30 pm?). Then a meeting room session Saturday late >>> afternoon (3:30 pm?). >>> >>> We're interested in all of the suggested topics and think it would be a >>> good idea to tentatively set topics & approximate times so people can >>> plan their other activities. >>> >>> Jim & Heather >>> N241BW >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311425#311425 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:39 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: SV: Front wheel wobbling From: "europapa" Dear friends, thank you so much for your fast and profound reply. Yes my Europa is now grounded and I ordered a new front wheel fork. If I had only asked you more early! Has got anyone experiences with Mod #59 to the front wheel assembly. Would you recommend it? The search for the anti shimmy grease wasnt very successful. May be any one in the EU resident can share a few spoon full. I will tell you about my progress. Thanks again Juergen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311637#311637 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.