Europa-List Digest Archive

Thu 09/09/10


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:06 AM - FW: Bing Carb Checks ----- FAA investigated fatal accident.. (Robert C Harrison)
     2. 05:25 AM - Re: Re: SV: Front wheel wobbling (Karl Heindl)
     3. 06:25 AM - RR Schedule completed up-date #16 (JEFF ROBERTS)
     4. 11:47 AM - Europa for Sale. (Mike Parkin)
     5. 04:09 PM - Europa wing section (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     6. 06:49 PM - RR Up-Date #15 Meetings (Erich Trombley)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:06:50 AM PST US
    From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: FW: Bing Carb Checks ----- FAA investigated fatal accident..
    My attempt to get this message onto the Jabiru engines list failed probably since I'm unsubscribed or probably I used an incorrect address. It occurs to me that a number of Europa Owners are running with Jabiru. Perhaps you could circulate my message and get the points taken up by the FAA Investigation Branch? I leave it to you:- Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337 Now with Rotax 914 Hi! I used to contribute to this list and have recently picked up a FAA accident report concerning a Jabiru 3300 engine. The guy who made this report available is a Rotax "buff" and even may be a maintenance engineer. The said report is at :- https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2010/Apr/10-01%5B1%5D.pdf However I have to contribute my experience on this matter for what it's worth to satisfy my personal conscience that I have made my findings available to any other Jabiru Engine/Bing Carb users and so ensure as far as possible all souls are availed of this information. It is quite possible that the FAA Accident Investigation organization already have applied this information content but it is also possible that people are still flying with a potential installation time bomb. My deliberations follow below I hope those responsible will take a close look at the installations in their domain to ensure that they are flying safe:- On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Robert C Harrison <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: "Hi! Richard...... The symptoms of the Jabiru incident you publish here remind me of a situation I had when I was test running mine (before I changed to a Rotax 914!) There is a tiny brass nipple on the carb neck ( seeming by it's appearance to call for a pipe to be attached ) there was no mention of this nipple in the engine installation manual. It looks like a carb float chamber overflow nipple. I reasoned therefore that should fuel flow from it be likely then it should be directed into a "catch bottle" so I put the pipe end into my oil breather separation bottle. (later I think Jabiru issued an instruction that it was a fuel bowl pressure stabilizing pipe and it should be directed into the carb intake air filter after the filter / but before the carb intake.) To continue :..my engine ran ok except I did get some oil spatter from the oil catcher bottle and so put a loose fitting rag into the bottle neck.( the amount of oil present in the bottle was minimal but I just may have, whilst stuffing the rag into the neck, pushed the little pipe end below the oil surface.) The net result was on start up the engine ran rough and (unbeknown to me smoked like a factory chimney for some time since I was working alone outside the hangar ) I could not get a smooth running engine, someone arrived and accused me of running up inside the hangar almost simultaneously I had oil cover my screen from the engine compartment. On stopping and further investigating I had massive fuel dilution to the engine oil and the level was way over the top filling the breather bottle to overflowing. I sat and did a lot of head scratching and traced the sequence of events to my stopping off the breather bottle with the rag. I removed the rag and the pipe, changed the engine oil and the engine started flawlessly. As I said above I eventually ran the pipe to new instructions. If the unfortunate pilot had a similar installation and for some reason his pressure balance pipe had been installed into the oil breather catch bottle the same scenario would prevail. Why should the oil level in the bottle suddenly increase? Well I discovered that the engine breather pipe was attached to the neck of the oil filler/dip stick assembly and on filling /top up of engine oil some would run down the breather pipe into the "catch" bottle! So a simple top up of engine oil could have commenced the sequence of events listed above. Perhaps you would see that this info gets to the relevant authorities as an unbiased contribution which if circulated will probably save further incidents." Needless to say the correspondent didn't wish to take the matter further ...wait for it ......because he is a Rotax man through and through! So all he wanted to see was the Rotax publication section on carburetor Installation the like of which I never saw during my Jabiru "infancy" but I respect the fact that the Jabiru Installation Manual may include this paragraph by now, and all is well so long as operators retro fitted the pipes into the correct place. Robert, Per the Rotax 912 Installation Manual Section 15.1.1, page 93: CAUTION: The float chamber venting lines (3) lines have to be routed into a ram-air and vacuum free zone or into the airbox, according to the requirements and release of BRP-Powertrain. See section 16. These lines must not be routed into the slipstream or down the firewall. Pressure differences between intake pressure and pressure in the carburetor chambers may lead to engine malfunction due to incorrect fuel supply. Please someone take up the intent of this "chase" and see to it that the FAA Accident Investigation people review the actual incident again in this light. Regards Bob Harrison (G-PTAG Europa now with Rotax 914)


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:25:07 AM PST US
    From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: SV: Front wheel wobbling
    J=FCrgen=2C That is a very nice Europa=2C and I don't see anything wrong with the noseg ear.If you look at the build manual=2C you should tighten the top nut enoug h to allow a sideways force of appr. 9kg before it moves.Shimmy is not a pr oblem when landing on grass. Karl > Subject: Europa-List: Re: SV: Front wheel wobbling > From: jubu@onlinehome.de > Date: Wed=2C 8 Sep 2010 22:19:47 -0700 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Thanks again for your support. > Just to let you know what I=C2=B4m talking about: > > http://lightaircraftinjersey.fotopic.net/p53990002.html > > Juergen > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=311902#311902 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:25:58 AM PST US
    From: JEFF ROBERTS <Jeff@rmmm.net>
    Subject: RR Schedule completed up-date #16
    For all to review, For those getting in Friday we have supper scheduled at 6:P Central. It's in the room sectioned off from the regular restaurant. Saturday breakfast at 8:30AM in the same room with meeting to follow. Meeting moves to the flight line at no scheduled time. Weather permitting flying will commence with lots of cowl pulling and interesting talk. We will also have the airport lounge and the porch area to use. Lunch can happen anytime individually. As of now we have the meeting room scheduled for a 5:P supper. We can stay or head back to the runway for more flying and conversation. Lets all pray for the big high pressure over America and having safe travel for all. Regards, Jeff R N128LJ Gold Rush > Lates Attendees: > Jeff & Mary Buhrans - N55XS Flying Baby Blue in. > Jeff & Karen Roberts - N128LJ Gold Rush Flying In > Troy & Donna Maynor - Flying his brand new Mono Classic ;o).. > Jim & Lynne Puglise - Driving the air conditioned control tower, > beer bar, meeting place/motor home. ;o) > John & Susan Lawton - N245E Flying his Jab powered Europa > Bob & Maureen Borger N914XL Flying In from Texas in... Little Dragon > Lady. > Paul McAllister... N378PJ Back in the country and getting new cowl > mods ready. > Jim & Heather Butcher - Flying in > Bud Yearly - N12AY Flying in... Yea Bud! > Jim Brown - N398JB - AKA JimBob. Flying up with Bud in formation. > Keep em separate boys! > John & Paddy Wigney - Flying in the good ship N262WF > Jim Woolnough - Via the big iron and driving from Louisville. > Creighton Smith A-036 - Via the big iron with Jim... Welcome aboard > mates! > Great to have the west coast boys. > Bob Lindsay - Flying in N77EU Turbo Toy. Flight of 3 maybe 4 > Erich Trombley - Flying in N28ET Classic mono 914. Flight of 3 maybe 4 > Kim Prout - Flying in N111EU The classic mono featured in July Kit > Planes Magazine Flight of 3 maybe 4 > And Here's to Kevin Klinefelter N211KA getting in on the fun!! Let > us know Kevin when you can... Maybe the 4th of the 3 ;0) > Fred Kline.... All the way from Orcas Island, WA > William McCellan Building A164 XS conventional gear Jab. Flying the > big iron with Fred. > Michael Grass Building A286 Tri-gear. Flying in from Detroit in his > C -150 Welcome Michael! Annual Rough River Fly In. September 17th & 18th 2010 and beyond!


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:47:14 AM PST US
    From: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Europa for Sale.
    Please see. http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview <http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=16997&imid=0> &adid=16997&imid=0 regards, Mike


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:09:52 PM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Europa wing section
    Hi Guys=0AI found a couple of files which just might give you accurate wing sections, One =0Ais a *.dwg (Auto cad I think) the other a *.dxf. drawing exchange file. I no =0Alonger have the software to open these so would some one try and let me know if =0Ait works?=0A=0AThe last one should give a 47" print out onto several sheets=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A___________________________ _____=0AFrom: Christoph Both <christoph.both@acadiau.ca>=0ATo: "europa-list @matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Tuesday, 17 August, 201 0 13:24:07=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics=0A=0A =0A Hello,=0AWhere would one find the digital collection of the profile?=0AThan ks,=0AChristoph Both=0A#223 Classic Wolfville Nova Scotia, Canada=0A =0A =0AFrom:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-europa-list -server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON=0ASent: Tuesday, Augus t 03, 2010 1:08 PM=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Europa-Li st: Stall spin characteristics=0A =0ABill=0Athe stall characteristics are d ependent on the quality and accuracy of the =0Aleading edge. LE is relative ly small radius and its all too easy to sand the =0Abump off with the effec ts you mention. In UK we are told to use stall strips or =0Aa stall warner. =0AStall strips are recommended and if carefully adjusted will calm the sta ll. Get =0Ahold of the digital print out of the section and make templates every foot or so =0Aspanwise. Then spend hours and hours getting the sectio n right. There is a tiny =0Abump under the LE which is important but hard t o spot.=0AGraham=0A =0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:W illiam McClellan <wilwood@earthlink.net>=0ATo: "Europa-List@matronics.com" <Europa-List@matronics.com>=0ASent: Tuesday, 3 August, 2010 16:50:07=0ASubj ect: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics=0A=0A--> Europa-List message p osted by: William McClellan <wilwood@earthlink.net>=0A=0AI understand that the Europa is very prone to abruptly dropping a wing, trying =0Ato enter a spin, when stalled with full flaps in the landing configuration. On =0Athe other hand, in the clean, unflapped configuration the stall is very benign . =0AI wonder if this is true of all Europa's or only some depending on th e =0Aparticulars of that builders end product and possible modifications. I have =0Anearly 1000 hrs in a Citabria with very much of it flying into sh ort =0A"backcountry" dirt strips requiring significant STOL characteristics . I don't =0Ahave flaps so regularly use severe straight and banked slips. The Citabria is a =0A"dirty" plane compared to the "very clean" Europa so I believe the use of severe =0Aslips in the Europa is never warranted. My experience with very clean planes, I =0Aalso have 1000 hours in my high pe rformance glider and since the air brakes work =0Aso well, severe slipping is not needed...though some less than ultra clean =0Agliders, ie, trainers, can make use of severe slipping!=0A. It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's ac cident was a result of this abrupt spin =0Astall characteristic in landing configuration. I have a rule (though not =0Aunique), "never skid a turn", keeping a nice margin above stall. It seems that =0Athe Europa (and probab ly all super clean planes, for instance the Cirrus), have =0Aa propensity t o severe stall spin in landing configuration. I understand that =0Amany Eu ropa pilots land with an airspeed up to 65 but this uses a greater =0Alandi ng distance considering the stall speed is in the 40's. Europa's original =0Atouted mission was short field, pasture strips. For those who often use this =0Ashort field capability, I would like to know the particulars to ma ke the Europa =0Aperform safely in this manner. Not having piloted a Europ a, but am close to =0Afinishing my build, I am curious to these questions. =0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank ">p; =0A -Matt Dralle, Libution" ========0A=0A =82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 - The Europa-List Email Foru =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 - L =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3 =82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 -Matt D ================0A =0A=C2=C2=B7=BA~ =B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC =C2=A2=C3=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^=C3=C3=A8=C2 =A5=C2=A2=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=91&j)E=C2=A2=C2=BB=C2K=C2=B6=C5=92j=C3=9A=C3=A8 =C5=BE',.+-=C3=C2=AD=C2=BA=C2=B7=C2=AC5=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2 =AE=C3=9A=C2=AE=C5=92,{azf=C2=A7=C3=88=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B6=C3=ABb=93+bz =C3=8B.r=C2=AC.+-R=C3=92=C2=B9=C2=BB=C2=AE*m=C5-=B0=C2=B7!=C5-=C3 =B7=99y=C2=C3=9C=9E:0=C5=BEZw=C2=B0=C3=9A=C3=88=C3=A8=C3=82 =C3=87=9A=C2=ABE-=B9h=C2=B2=C2=ABy=C2=A9=C3=9D =C5=A1=C3=A7!=C5=A1=C3=A7!=C5=A1=C5-=C3=9E=C2=A1=C2=AD=C3=A7-=C3 =9Bi=C3=C3=BC0=C3=82f=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B3Z =C2=BE(=C2=B6=C5-=C3=84=C2=BA=C2=BA)h=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B6m=C2=A7=C3=C3 =B0=C3=83=C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2o=C3=8Dj=C3=B8 j=C3=9A+ =C3=C3=A8=C2=A5=C2=A2=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9F=C3=9A=0A


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:49:21 PM PST US
    From: "Erich Trombley" <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
    Subject: RR Up-Date #15 Meetings
    Jeff, Well done. Thank you securing the room(s). Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 ____________________________________________________________ How to Avoid Alzheimer&#39;s Drug companies won&#39;t tell you the real culprit is in your food. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4c898901dc417b35cc7st06vuc




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