---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/24/10: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:22 AM - Re: Next steps - TORSION HARMONICS HISTORY .... (Robert C Harrison) 2. 01:24 AM - Fw: Flyin at Thorney Island. (Steven Pitt) 3. 02:44 AM - Re: Next steps - TORSION HARMONICS HISTORY .... (Jan de Jong) 4. 02:46 AM - Re: Top fuselage- rear flange gap problem (jglazener) 5. 03:26 AM - Re: Next steps - TORSION HARMONICS HISTORY .... (craig bastin) 6. 03:26 AM - Re: Re: Top fuselage- rear flange gap problem (craig bastin) 7. 11:26 AM - Trim indicator (Steven Pitt) 8. 11:51 AM - Re: Trim indicator (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 9. 01:04 PM - Re: Trim indicator (Fred Klein) 10. 02:14 PM - Re: Trim indicator (Dale Hetrick) 11. 03:13 PM - Sandown Airfield. (Steven Pitt) 12. 03:20 PM - Re: Trim indicator (Steven Pitt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:17 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Next steps - TORSION HARMONICS HISTORY .... Hi! All industrious engineers ...! I would suggest you make an approach to Pat Tunney. He took the BMW Project under his wing no doubt spent mega bucks in cash and time but I think he abandoned it as a nightmare. He subscribes to this forum. For what I know you have a hitherto unsolvable problem since the power stroke resonance develops a harmonic torsion resonance shock wave to run up the propeller blades and viewed from a position at the end of the rotating propeller arc you can see the propeller blade take a shape rather like a letter "S". (very dangerous place to stand) Europa had an engine c/w propeller mounted on a car trailer and ran the assembly at a "workshop" event at Elvington Airfield with minions of customers and potential customers littered all around waiting for the possibility of certain death! To my knowledge such a hormonics pulse eliminator needs yet to be invented. ... ..........Perhaps try a "vee" belt final drive to the prop ? .or even contra-rotating props !!!!!!!! The Rotax slipper clutch employs a rotary spring loaded cam drive which is a copy of crank shaft drive situated prior to the primary drive chain on my single cylinder 1936 Velocette 350 KSS (overhead cam) which maybe goes part way to effect a solution. Those chaps had wonderful opportunities to exercise their engineering abilities for the year. Incidentally ( not to expand on my previous Jabiru experiences) I had a serious torsion resonance peak induced in the propeller/crankshaft combination of my Constant Speed MT Propeller which was acceptable since it could be accelerated though but MT Propeller Engineers placed some restriction on the operation of the combination. Even, though being a six cylinder, the torsion graph plotted was scary and clearly defined. With random propeller mounting extensions the torsion effect can be caused to develop back along the crankshaft to be between the main bearing journals and so fail the crank shaft. ( I've seen photographs) Regards Bob Harrison. G-PTAG _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 23 September 2010 10:35 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Next steps - Cleve My understanding is that the Europa work on the R1100 was stopped as they could not eliminate a torsion vibration problem with the setup. I speculate that an R1200 installation would have the same problems. In May 1997 it was being worked on. This was the period when a man called Adam Kingdom became CEO. Things do not appear to have gone well and he left in mid/late 1998. News letters in this period are very sketchy. Other almost certainly know more than I do Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:02 AM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Europa-List: Fw: Flyin at Thorney Island. Hopefully self explanatory Steve Pitt ----- Original Message ----- From: Daryl Cornelius Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 10:03 PM Subject: RE: Flyin at Thorney Island. Hello, The weather for the weekend is looking great! We look forward to seeing you at what promises to be one of our busiest fly-ins ever! Please see updated information attached. The circuit will be busy please keep your ears open, and eyes peeled there is no radio and so it is blind calls do communicate with others if you are unsure! We have found in the past that pilots without a controller make a good (if not better) job of slotting in together ;-) You will need to assume that all other pilots don't reach your standard of airmanship, and so please make allowance for those with skills less advanced than yours (this is a rule for all pilots ;-) keep a sharp eye on those who have a different left and right designation than you and if in doubt give way, we will enjoy watching you flying by a few times before we brew your tea. Please feel welcome to fly a low pass on the way in to inspect the runways if that is your elect, it will be nice to see too! and if in any doubt Goodwood is minutes away, Sandown and Bembridge less than 15 minutes across the water, make sure you plan these as alternates. My phone will be on but will be busy so please keep the calls short and to the point, plenty of time for a chat when you're on the deck ;-) There are local Army family's who will be interested in your aircraft so please do take time to show them over your aircraft if your inclined and if you would like to pop a circuit with them IF you feel comfortable they will be very grateful I am sure, it is at your elect to offer a circuit and you should not feel any pressure to do so, we are just glad to see you. Thank you for supporting us and SAFFA at this event. Regards Daryl PS: It's not too late to invite your flying friends ;-) daryl@darylcornelius.com M: 075 9532 9158 T: 023 9246 8806 From: PITT STEVEN [mailto:steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com] Sent: 22 September 2010 20:14 Subject: Re: Flyin at Thorney Island. Thanks Daryl - I have passed your email onto the Europa email system. Is there a need to book in by phone? Steve Pitt On 21 September 2010 21:33, Daryl Cornelius wrote: Steven, We look forward to meeting you! Here are the details please do pass this along to your flying friends Regards Daryl daryl@darylcornelius.com M: 075 9532 9158 T: 023 9246 8806 From: Steven Pitt [mailto:steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com] Sent: 21 September 2010 21:31 Subject: Flyin at Thorney Island. I have only just seen your advert for this weekends flyin at Thorney Island. Having lived in the area for over 20 years I have always wanted to flyin so I hope there is still room for me. Can you let me know of your requirements and availability please. Thank you. Steve Pitt Europa XS based at Popham G-SMDH ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:45 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Next steps - TORSION HARMONICS HISTORY .... Not that I know anything about the subject, but several Cherry builders in NL have been flying with BMW boxer engines for quite a few years. http://spang-air.de/e/html/bmw_-_engine.html http://www.takeoff-ul.de/pdf%27s/Description_TAKEOFF_engine_02-2006.pdf Regards Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:33 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Top fuselage- rear flange gap problem From: "jglazener" Thanks for all the input. Troy, you are right about the top of the firewall bending forward- mine does that as well. I did however push it back when taking the photo above. I will certainly try you method to get it straight. Bottom line is that the gap seems here to stay. It can't really be any other way- pulling the top further back would only make the tail and FW flange misalign. Strange that a systematic non conformance like that is not either corrected (trimming less at the factory) or mentioned in the manual. Jeroen http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=44165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313565#313565 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:04 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Next steps - TORSION HARMONICS HISTORY .... Just on the subject of belt drives, one of the australian builders of scale spitfires and mustangs now too i believe. they use a tooth belt drive on 350hp V8 engines to stop any harmonic issues arrising between engine and prop this may be a good soulution to the issue, but will require a bit more engineering than direct drive, or gearbox i suggest. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jan de Jong Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Next steps - TORSION HARMONICS HISTORY .... Not that I know anything about the subject, but several Cherry builders in NL have been flying with BMW boxer engines for quite a few years. http://spang-air.de/e/html/bmw_-_engine.html http://www.takeoff-ul.de/pdf%27s/Description_TAKEOFF_engine_02-2006.pdf Regards Jan de Jong Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 04:34:00 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:04 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Top fuselage- rear flange gap problem not that it helps you much, but my firewall ended up straight, when i pulled the top back far enough to make it all line up -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jglazener Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 7:44 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Top fuselage- rear flange gap problem Thanks for all the input. Troy, you are right about the top of the firewall bending forward- mine does that as well. I did however push it back when taking the photo above. I will certainly try you method to get it straight. Bottom line is that the gap seems here to stay. It can't really be any other way- pulling the top further back would only make the tail and FW flange misalign. Strange that a systematic non conformance like that is not either corrected (trimming less at the factory) or mentioned in the manual. Jeroen http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=44165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313565#313565 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 04:34:00 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:08 AM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Europa-List: Trim indicator I am surprised and disappointed by the number of replies I received to my query about LEDs packing up. Thankful for the number of replies but disappointed that so many people have had or are having problems with this part. At $100 a pop this does not seem right. Has anyone contacted Ray Allen to ask why? Thanks especially to Greg for the detail and potential repair strategy. We will have a look at that more in the UK. Steve Pitt G-SMDH ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:51:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trim indicator From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Steve, I didn't reply to your earlier email, but thought I would this time. We also had the display go bad and replaced it. It has been OK since. One thing we notice is that the display is very sensitive to the radio, when we transmit, the LEDs flicker. It might be that the long wiring run back to the tail is picking up enough RF to burn the things out. Maybe the wiring needs shielding. Just a thought. Regards, Terry A135/N135TD From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Pitt Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:22 AM Subject: Europa-List: Trim indicator I am surprised and disappointed by the number of replies I received to my query about LEDs packing up. Thankful for the number of replies but disappointed that so many people have had or are having problems with this part. At $100 a pop this does not seem right. Has anyone contacted Ray Allen to ask why? Thanks especially to Greg for the detail and potential repair strategy. We will have a look at that more in the UK. Steve Pitt G-SMDH ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:46 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim indicator On Sep 24, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Terry Seaver (terrys) wrote: > Maybe the wiring needs shielding. ...Bingo!...(?)...@ RR I heard someone recommend shielding ALL wires...(?) Fred ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim indicator From: Dale Hetrick All, I'm jumping into the middle of this since I'm located only a few miles from the Ray Allen Company. I just talked with Scott (one of the owners) and relayed your problem to him. His response was that, yes the early "MAC" label had some problems because they were over-driving the LED's. Some models that were shipped sometime between ~2004 & 2006 also had some connection problems because of the Lead free solder they were forced to use for European shipments. The later Model RP-3 had no problems that they are aware of. The good news is that if anyone is having a problem, just let Scott know ( and he will replace it at 1/2 price. ($43.00 US plus ~10.00 Air Parcel Post) No need to return the failed part. Hope this helps Dale Hetrick N1726DH 100+hours On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Steven Pitt wrote: > I am surprised and disappointed by the number of replies I received to my > query about LEDs packing up. Thankful for the number of replies but > disappointed that so many people have had or are having problems with this > part. At $100 a pop this does not seem right. Has anyone contacted Ray Allen > to ask why? > Thanks especially to Greg for the detail and potential repair strategy. We > will have a look at that more in the UK. > Steve Pitt > G-SMDH > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:28 PM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Europa-List: Sandown Airfield. http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/delight-at-high-court-airport-order-34921 .aspx Upto date news from the Islands newspaper. Steve Pitt ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:19 PM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim indicator Thanks Dale - it is good to see the power of the forum and thanks for taking the initiative. I will contact Scott. My lights probably were issued by Europa in 1998 but I have only flown for the last 4 years (220 hours and smiling). Regards Steve Pitt ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Hetrick To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:11 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim indicator All, I'm jumping into the middle of this since I'm located only a few miles from the Ray Allen Company. I just talked with Scott (one of the owners) and relayed your problem to him. His response was that, yes the early "MAC" label had some problems because they were over-driving the LED's. Some models that were shipped sometime between ~2004 & 2006 also had some connection problems because of the Lead free solder they were forced to use for European shipments. The later Model RP-3 had no problems that they are aware of. The good news is that if anyone is having a problem, just let Scott know ( and he will replace it at 1/2 price. ($43.00 US plus ~10.00 Air Parcel Post) No need to return the failed part. Hope this helps Dale Hetrick N1726DH 100+hours On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Steven Pitt wrote: I am surprised and disappointed by the number of replies I received to my query about LEDs packing up. Thankful for the number of replies but disappointed that so many people have had or are having problems with this part. At $100 a pop this does not seem right. Has anyone contacted Ray Allen to ask why? Thanks especially to Greg for the detail and potential repair strategy. We will have a look at that more in the UK. 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