---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/10/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:07 AM - Re: Test flying/checklist (Europa) 2. 01:26 AM - Battery position Classic Mono XS FWFD (graeme bird) 3. 01:29 AM - Painting with flying controls on (graeme bird) 4. 01:54 AM - Re: Battery position Classic Mono XS FWFD (Tim Ward) 5. 02:08 AM - Re: Sandown (Kevin Challis) 6. 04:15 AM - Re: Battery position Classic Mono XS FWFD (JR Gowing) 7. 05:26 AM - Re: Painting with flying controls on (Pete Lawless) 8. 07:08 AM - Lube for Tufnol (Kevin Klinefelter) 9. 11:36 AM - Re: Test flying/checklist (Peter Jeffers) 10. 03:26 PM - Re: Test flying/checklist (Europa) 11. 06:55 PM - Re: Battery position Classic Mono XS FWFD (Troy Maynor) 12. 07:02 PM - Re: Shr Flies Like a Bird (Troy Maynor) 13. 07:12 PM - Re: Painting with flying controls on (Troy Maynor) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Test flying/checklist From: Europa Bud Many thinks for this. We have forgotten how long since we put the torque tube in. Lubricating etc appears to have made a big difference. Need to see on next test flight. Paul On 9/10/10 21:01, "Bud Yerly" wrote: > Paul, > Neutral means many things. The Europa aircraft should indicate nearly dead > beat return to trimmed speed when the stick is pulsed upward sharply and > released. Quickly pull the stick back about one inch at about 90 Kts. (I hold > my forearm against my knee and pulse the stick with my fingers) and release.) > If the plane corrects back in less than one oscillation cycle that is what is > meant by dead beat over here. > > If the nose basically stops in a climb or very slowly continues up, and the > stick does not return exactly where you had it and it does not return to the > trimmed speed, you have friction in your pitch system and it must be worked > out with lube, or whatever is necessary. > > If you pulse the stick up and the nose continues up but does come back to > trimmed flight after a bit, your stabilator counter weight is a little too > heavy (acceleration forces pull the leading edge down). If you pulse the > stick back and the correction is quite quick back to trimmed level, your > counterweight is too light and the acceleration has pulled the stab trailing > edge down causing a nose down pitch. This makes flying in turbulence > fatiguing. > > I suspect you have friction in your system. Please try the following. In the > hangar and no wind, push down on the dorsal fin area just forward of the > stabs, bouncing the aircraft briskly, and watch your stabilators. Normally > they will move a bit as you bounce the aircraft but essentially stay where > balanced. If the TE of the stab goes down, the counterweight is too light and > vice versa. If the stab doesn't move at all, too much friction. If you move > the stick or the trailing edge of the stab, the tail plane should move easily > with little or no friction or stickiness. The bearings may still have dirt > from finishing in them, or your trim tube could be dragging a bit, and must be > clearanced. > > Vague trim is an indication your Flettner strips are too small and the trim > tab can't feel the change in air pressure and transmit that to the stab. > > It's a start. Hope it is something simple. > > As for checklists, I was a standardization pilot for years in the military and > used to build/update operations manuals, checklists and local procedures > manuals for quick reference.. I made a personal checklist for my Europa > trigear or mono or glider, equipped with an old 914 or 912 series engine. I > plastic coated it for durability and have it as a ringed flip checklist. > There have been changes over the years but basically it works OK. Take a > look. In my feeble brain, it works to my logic. > This is a personal checklist, it is for my use only, I still carry the engine > manufacturers operational checklist and the Europa checklist in the aircraft. > I do not intentionally deviate from anything in the operators handbooks. Many > items are excessively abbreviated and may not suit other pilots. It is my > belief that we all should have a personal operators quick reference card that > can be accessed quickly, similar to the one produced by Europa, and refer to > it often. I fly with this one next to me at all times. An excel spreadsheet > is attached. You may use the format if you see fit. As everyone knows, I > can't do anything briefly so it is a number of pages... > > > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations, Inc. > Tech support. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Europa >> >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> >> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 2:40 PM >> >> Subject: Europa-List: Test flying >> >> >> >> A couple of questions. >> >> 1. while at cruise speed the aircraft is neutral in pitch. At low speed >> (flaps down) it tends to hold any pitch input (nose up or nose down). Anyone >> any thoughts? >> >> 2. Does anyone have recognised check lists for a 914 mono? >> >> >> Regards >> >> Paul nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web >> title=http://forums.matronics.com/ >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> _p; generous bsp; >> title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c===== >> ========== >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:25 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Battery position Classic Mono XS FWFD From: "graeme bird" I am building a classics without the baggage extension (dont want electric flaps or the pay 1000 for the mod) so where does the battery go. Its having a 912S so I would like to have it as close as possible. I only have the XS manual. Also can I put the choke on the instrument panel? -------- Graeme Bird Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315248#315248 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:39 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Painting with flying controls on From: "graeme bird" I saw at the LAA rally a europa that had been painted with the flying controls on (ie, the screws were painted as well. I had thought it was essential to disassemble. Does anyone have any advice on this? I would cover the screw slots. -------- Graeme Bird Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315249#315249 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:22 AM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Battery position Classic Mono XS FWFD ?Graeme, I have the battery on the top of the starboard foot well. Easy access, close to everything, and OK for C of G. Cheers, Tim -----Original Message----- From: graeme bird Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 9:23 PM Subject: Europa-List: Battery position Classic Mono XS FWFD I am building a classics without the baggage extension (dont want electric flaps or the pay 1000 for the mod) so where does the battery go. Its having a 912S so I would like to have it as close as possible. I only have the XS manual. Also can I put the choke on the instrument panel? -------- Graeme Bird Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315248#315248 Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch 8052 NEW ZEALAND. email ; ward.t@xtra.co.nz Home +64 3 3515166 MOB 0210640221 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:15 AM PST US From: "Kevin Challis" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Sandown Hi I landed at Bembridge the other day 12.50 up from 7.50 a few months ago. It would seem that the lack of 2 airfields on the island is going to effect the cost as one would expect. Kevin From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle Sent: 30 September 2010 21:52 Subject: Europa-List: Sandown Cheers, I wanted to say that although my input would mean little to those involved in the airports future - that the destruction of small handy airfields everywhere is grist for the banking mill. Obviously it means more in crowded Europe than over here but the money tigers grown fiercely here. I took great pains to lambaste the North Weald area mandarins really because my squadron spent some time there during the Battle of Britain and I felt history reigned in that case. On Sandown perhaps there is less cause unless the Watson Watt's radar posts were maintained by use of Sandown. My nephew brought me back from Cranfield in his ultralight, to settle serenely onto the turf at Sandown. I was immediately warmed to think it very much mirrored the atmosphere at a myriad of "Mom 'n Pop" airfields so preferred in the States. An immaculate grass field, a few buildings, a warm handshake and a drop of fuel. These are the marks of a pleasant cross-country odyssey and Sandown is one of these. May it flourish rather than become another victim of faulty logic. Ferg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:19 AM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Battery position Classic Mono XS FWFD Graham You would probably do best to emulate the XS and make a raised addition to the tunnel near the brake so you can leave the cable connected it you remove the panel. JR (Bob) Gowing Kit 327 in Oz -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird Sent: Sunday, 10 October 2010 7:24 PM Subject: Europa-List: Battery position Classic Mono XS FWFD I am building a classics without the baggage extension (dont want electric flaps or the pay 1000 for the mod) so where does the battery go. Its having a 912S so I would like to have it as close as possible. I only have the XS manual. Also can I put the choke on the instrument panel? -------- Graeme Bird Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315248#315248 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:27 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Painting with flying controls on Control surface balance to prevent flutter! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird Sent: 10 October 2010 09:27 Subject: Europa-List: Painting with flying controls on I saw at the LAA rally a europa that had been painted with the flying controls on (ie, the screws were painted as well. I had thought it was essential to disassemble. Does anyone have any advice on this? I would cover the screw slots. -------- Graeme Bird Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315249#315249 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:48 AM PST US From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Subject: Europa-List: Lube for Tufnol What's the best lube to use for our phenolic bearings? Kevin 914 XS Mono 270 hrs ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:26 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Test flying/checklist Paul, If your problem turns out to be friction in the elevator circuit then there is one unlikely place to look that I have come across before and is easily checked and will save you a lot of grief searching as I had to on that occasion. Check that the bolts with castellated nut and split pin that connect each control column to the pitch control rod beneath each seat is not over tightened. You will be amazed at how easy the fix is if this is your problem. One castellation off is probably enough. May be one side or other or both sides. Best of luck it has worked before. Pete Europa Club LAA Rep _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Europa Sent: 10 October 2010 09:03 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Test flying/checklist Bud Many thinks for this. We have forgotten how long since we put the torque tube in. Lubricating etc appears to have made a big difference. Need to see on next test flight. Paul On 9/10/10 21:01, "Bud Yerly" wrote: Paul, Neutral means many things. The Europa aircraft should indicate nearly dead beat return to trimmed speed when the stick is pulsed upward sharply and released. Quickly pull the stick back about one inch at about 90 Kts. (I hold my forearm against my knee and pulse the stick with my fingers) and release.) If the plane corrects back in less than one oscillation cycle that is what is meant by dead beat over here. If the nose basically stops in a climb or very slowly continues up, and the stick does not return exactly where you had it and it does not return to the trimmed speed, you have friction in your pitch system and it must be worked out with lube, or whatever is necessary. If you pulse the stick up and the nose continues up but does come back to trimmed flight after a bit, your stabilator counter weight is a little too heavy (acceleration forces pull the leading edge down). If you pulse the stick back and the correction is quite quick back to trimmed level, your counterweight is too light and the acceleration has pulled the stab trailing edge down causing a nose down pitch. This makes flying in turbulence fatiguing. I suspect you have friction in your system. Please try the following. In the hangar and no wind, push down on the dorsal fin area just forward of the stabs, bouncing the aircraft briskly, and watch your stabilators. Normally they will move a bit as you bounce the aircraft but essentially stay where balanced. If the TE of the stab goes down, the counterweight is too light and vice versa. If the stab doesn't move at all, too much friction. If you move the stick or the trailing edge of the stab, the tail plane should move easily with little or no friction or stickiness. The bearings may still have dirt from finishing in them, or your trim tube could be dragging a bit, and must be clearanced. Vague trim is an indication your Flettner strips are too small and the trim tab can't feel the change in air pressure and transmit that to the stab. It's a start. Hope it is something simple. As for checklists, I was a standardization pilot for years in the military and used to build/update operations manuals, checklists and local procedures manuals for quick reference.. I made a personal checklist for my Europa trigear or mono or glider, equipped with an old 914 or 912 series engine. I plastic coated it for durability and have it as a ringed flip checklist. There have been changes over the years but basically it works OK. Take a look. In my feeble brain, it works to my logic. This is a personal checklist, it is for my use only, I still carry the engine manufacturers operational checklist and the Europa checklist in the aircraft. I do not intentionally deviate from anything in the operators handbooks. Many items are excessively abbreviated and may not suit other pilots. It is my belief that we all should have a personal operators quick reference card that can be accessed quickly, similar to the one produced by Europa, and refer to it often. I fly with this one next to me at all times. An excel spreadsheet is attached. You may use the format if you see fit. As everyone knows, I can't do anything briefly so it is a number of pages... Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations, Inc. Tech support. ----- Original Message ----- From: Europa Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 2:40 PM Subject: Europa-List: Test flying A couple of questions. 1. while at cruise speed the aircraft is neutral in pitch. At low speed (flaps down) it tends to hold any pitch input (nose up or nose down). Anyone any thoughts? 2. Does anyone have recognised check lists for a 914 mono? Regards Paul nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Test flying/checklist From: Europa Thanks Pete. I=B9ll check out the columns. Hopeful we=B9ve made progress. Started the engine today and prop wash alone (@ 3000 rpm) was enough to centre the column in pitch. Next test flight tomorrow so we=B9ll see. Regards Paul On 10/10/10 19:32, "Peter Jeffers" wrote: > Paul, > > If your problem turns out to be friction in the elevator circuit then the re is > one unlikely place to look that I have come across before and is easily > checked and will save you a lot of grief searching as I had to on that > occasion. > > Check that the bolts with castellated nut and split pin that connect each > control column to the pitch control rod beneath each seat is not over > tightened. You will be amazed at how easy the fix is if this is your pro blem. > One castellation off is probably enough. May be one side or other or both > sides. Best of luck it has worked before. > > Pete Europa Club LAA Rep > > > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Europa > Sent: 10 October 2010 09:03 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Test flying/checklist > > Bud > > Many thinks for this. We have forgotten how long since we put the torque tube > in. Lubricating etc appears to have made a big difference. Need to see on next > test flight. > > Paul > > > On 9/10/10 21:01, "Bud Yerly" wrote: > Paul, > Neutral means many things. The Europa aircraft should indicate nearly de ad > beat return to trimmed speed when the stick is pulsed upward sharply and > released. Quickly pull the stick back about one inch at about 90 Kts. (I hold > my forearm against my knee and pulse the stick with my fingers) and relea se.) > If the plane corrects back in less than one oscillation cycle that is wha t is > meant by dead beat over here. > > If the nose basically stops in a climb or very slowly continues up, and t he > stick does not return exactly where you had it and it does not return to the > trimmed speed, you have friction in your pitch system and it must be work ed > out with lube, or whatever is necessary. > > If you pulse the stick up and the nose continues up but does come back to > trimmed flight after a bit, your stabilator counter weight is a little to o > heavy (acceleration forces pull the leading edge down). If you pulse the > stick back and the correction is quite quick back to trimmed level, your > counterweight is too light and the acceleration has pulled the stab trail ing > edge down causing a nose down pitch. This makes flying in turbulence > fatiguing. > > I suspect you have friction in your system. Please try the following. I n the > hangar and no wind, push down on the dorsal fin area just forward of the > stabs, bouncing the aircraft briskly, and watch your stabilators. Normal ly > they will move a bit as you bounce the aircraft but essentially stay wher e > balanced. If the TE of the stab goes down, the counterweight is too ligh t and > vice versa. If the stab doesn't move at all, too much friction. If you m ove > the stick or the trailing edge of the stab, the tail plane should move ea sily > with little or no friction or stickiness. The bearings may still have di rt > from finishing in them, or your trim tube could be dragging a bit, and mu st be > clearanced. > > Vague trim is an indication your Flettner strips are too small and the tr im > tab can't feel the change in air pressure and transmit that to the stab. > > It's a start. Hope it is something simple. > > As for checklists, I was a standardization pilot for years in the militar y and > used to build/update operations manuals, checklists and local procedures > manuals for quick reference.. I made a personal checklist for my Europa > trigear or mono or glider, equipped with an old 914 or 912 series engine. I > plastic coated it for durability and have it as a ringed flip checklist. > There have been changes over the years but basically it works OK. Take a > look. In my feeble brain, it works to my logic. > This is a personal checklist, it is for my use only, I still carry the en gine > manufacturers operational checklist and the Europa checklist in the aircr aft. > I do not intentionally deviate from anything in the operators handbooks. Many > items are excessively abbreviated and may not suit other pilots. It is my > belief that we all should have a personal operators quick reference card that > can be accessed quickly, similar to the one produced by Europa, and refer to > it often. I fly with this one next to me at all times. An excel spread sheet > is attached. You may use the format if you see fit. As everyone knows, I > can't do anything briefly so it is a number of pages... > > > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations, Inc. > Tech support. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Europa > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 2:40 PM > > Subject: Europa-List: Test flying > > > > A couple of questions. > > 1. while at cruise speed the aircraft is neutral in pitch. At low speed > (flaps down) it tends to hold any pitch input (nose up or nose down). An yone > any thoughts? > > 2. Does anyone have recognised check lists for a 914 mono? > > > Regards > > Paul nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web > title=http://forums.matronics.com/ > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > _p; generous bsp; > title=http://www.matronics.com/c > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c== ==== > ========= > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:21 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Battery position Classic Mono XS FWFD From: "Troy Maynor" Graham, I have a Classic Monowheel, 912S. I put my choke cable on a piece of 1" angle aluminum and bolted it to the side of the tunnel to place the surface of it in line with the bottom of the instrument panel. I also have a carb heat knob there too beside it that operates a water shut off valve to the Skydrive carb heat system. My battery is on the starboard foot well. I have the extended baggage shelf and the XS style tailwheel. My CG is right in the middle of the range. Hope this helps. Troy Maynor N120EU 65 hours so far. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315300#315300 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:14 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Shr Flies Like a Bird From: "Troy Maynor" Hey Mike, Congratulations!! It is a great feeling to fly a bird of this caliber and know that you built it yourself. You have very good reason to be proud. Beautiful craft. Have a lot of fun flying and forget the filling and sanding finally. Troy Maynor Monowheel Classic UK120 N120EU 65 hours so far Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=315301#315301 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:15 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Painting with flying controls on From: "Troy Maynor" Hi Graeme, Paint first with hinges covered in tape, balance if applicable, mount to flying surface with new shiny screws of your choice. At least that's what I did. Troy Maynor Monowheel Classic UK120 N120EU 65 hours so far. 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