---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/25/10: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:25 AM - Re: Ignition Module (Richard Iddon) 2. 06:02 AM - Araldite(Redux) 420 in UK (Paddy Clarke) 3. 09:13 AM - Re: Ignition Module (peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk) 4. 12:25 PM - Re: Ignition Module (Nigel Graham) 5. 12:43 PM - Re: Ignition Module (Mike Parkin) 6. 01:25 PM - Re: Ignition Module (Peter Rees) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:23 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ignition Module Peter, I have a friend who repairs Rotax, mainly for microlights. Keith Worthington, Eccleston Aviation. He may be able to help you. Email worthington.keith@yahoo.co.uk or phone him on 01257453430. Richard Iddon G-RIXS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Rees" Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 8:38 AM Subject: Europa-List: Ignition Module > > > By a process of substitution, it would appear that one of the 2 ignition > modules on our 912 powered Europa has developed an intermitant fault. > > The price for these in the UK is a shade under 700!! Does anyone know a > way of getting hold of one at a more attractive price than that? (looking > for the version with the 4 way plug). > > Thanks > > Peter (G-MFHI) > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:21 AM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: Araldite(Redux) 420 in UK Hi Folks, Does anyone have a small amount of Redux 420 in the SW of the UK, that is still in date? Many Thanks, Paddy Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:02 AM PST US From: "peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ignition Module Thanks for the response. The problem diesn't result in a 'dead cut' when selecting the rogue unit - just a drop of about 200 RPM (as opposed to about 75 on the good unit). The fault also only seems to happen when the engine is up to temperature (which makes ground testing significantly more difficult). Both of these lead me to believe that the problem is inside the box (though I suppose that it is possible that as the engine comes up to temperature, the insulation on the wires softens and the resulting increaded allows a damaged wire to move more than when cold). ----Original Message---- From: nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk Subj: Re: Europa-List: Ignition Module co.uk> Peter, This is a well known problem with the older 4 way plug versions. Before you shell out for a new ignition unit, take a good look at the flying leads from the "black box" to the connector. The prolonged vibration tends to work harden the copper leads and they eventually fracture within their plastic sheathing (hidden from view), making intermittent contact. I won't pretend that its easy to spot, but it's a lot cheaper than a new unit! Nigel On 24/10/2010 22:38, Peter Rees wrote: > > > By a process of substitution, it would appear that one of the 2 > ignition modules on our 912 powered Europa has developed an > intermitant fault. > > The price for these in the UK is a shade under 700!! Does anyone know > a way of getting hold of one at a more attractive price than that? > (looking for the version with the 4 way plug). > > Thanks > > Peter (G-MFHI) > > > > _- =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:01 PM PST US From: Nigel Graham Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ignition Module Peter, I have a few more suggestions before you reach for your cheque-book. First, check that the plugs are not breaking down by swapping over the plug lead pairs on each cylinder then restart the engine and see if the fault moves to the "other" mag. If it does, then the plugs (or leads) are the problem. If not, reset the plug leads to their original positions. Second, check that both trigger coils are timed correctly. You'll need a strobe for this. Run the engine on only one mag, note the timing position, then run on only the other mag and see if the timing is the same on both. If one is running retarded, you will get a drop in RPM on that mag. You don't say which engine you are using. The 914 deliberately times both mags differently (it's used to control pre-ignition), the 912(s) should be the same. Don't be surprised if there is a difference as engines leave the Rotax factory with the trigger coil gap-settings varying greatly. If you can get down the back of the engine, try and check these gaps and the security of the clamping screws (details in the maintenance manual). You will find four trigger coils, two for retarded timing for starting and two for advanced timing for running. If you have a pre-March 1999 engine check to see if the service bulletin SB 912 026/E (for a 912) or SB 914 014/E revision2 (for a 914) were complied with (check engine log). Early stators had a problem with the insulation material which allowed some solvents and fuel to dissolve it. The SB's addressed this by replacing the whole stator with an improved replacement from Rotax - again, your engine log should record this. Lastly, you can isolate the problem to either the ignition modules or the trigger coils by swapping over both sets of red trigger wires between the stator to the modules (they are dual redundant), If the problem remains with the same mag - the ignition modules are the problem and if the fault swaps to the other mag - the trigger coils are the problem. A lot to go through, but if you approach it methodically, it should be straight forward. Refer to the Rotax manual, you will find it covers this quite well. .............and if you don't have one, contact me off-list and I'll send you the latest manual in .pdf format. Nigel On 25/10/2010 16:39, peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk" > > Thanks for the response. > > The problem diesn't result in a 'dead cut' when selecting the rogue > unit - just a drop of about 200 RPM (as opposed to about 75 on the good > unit). The fault also only seems to happen when the engine is up to > temperature (which makes ground testing significantly more difficult). > Both of these lead me to believe that the problem is inside the box > (though I suppose that it is possible that as the engine comes up to > temperature, the insulation on the wires softens and the resulting > increaded allows a damaged wire to move more than when cold). > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:06 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ignition Module Have you changed the plugs, this is an indication of a plug breakdown at higher temp/pressure. Regards, From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk Sent: 25 October 2010 16:39 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ignition Module Thanks for the response. The problem diesn't result in a 'dead cut' when selecting the rogue unit - just a drop of about 200 RPM (as opposed to about 75 on the good unit). The fault also only seems to happen when the engine is up to temperature (which makes ground testing significantly more difficult). Both of these lead me to believe that the problem is inside the box (though I suppose that it is possible that as the engine comes up to temperature, the insulation on the wires softens and the resulting increaded allows a damaged wire to move more than when cold). ----Original Message---- From: nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk Subj: Re: Europa-List: Ignition Module co.uk> Peter, This is a well known problem with the older 4 way plug versions. Before you shell out for a new ignition unit, take a good look at the flying leads from the "black box" to the connector. The prolonged vibration tends to work harden the copper leads and they eventually fracture within their plastic sheathing (hidden from view), making intermittent contact. I won't pretend that its easy to spot, but it's a lot cheaper than a new unit! Nigel On 24/10/2010 22:38, Peter Rees wrote: > > > By a process of substitution, it would appear that one of the 2 > ignition modules on our 912 powered Europa has developed an > intermitant fault. > > The price for these in the UK is a shade under =C2=A3700!! Does anyone know > a way of getting hold of one at a more attractive price than that? > (looking for the version with the 4 way plug). > > Thanks > > Peter (G-MFHI) > > > > _- ========= _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:44 PM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ignition Module Hi Nigel Thanks for a very comprehensive check list - we had tried almost everything on there already. Stator has been changed very early on in the aircrafts life. The substitution I mentioned in my initial E-mail included a good ignition module - when this is fitted, the problem seems to have been cured - hence, rather unfortunately, I believe I'm looking for a source of a module cheaper than the normal 'retail'. I've E-mailed Lisa at Redair to see if she can come up with anything. Thanks very much for the advice Peter ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.