Europa-List Digest Archive

Tue 11/16/10


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:29 AM - Re: where to collect air for air instruments (rparigoris)
     2. 07:56 AM - windscreen air (Fergus Kyle)
     3. 10:30 AM - Re: windscreen air (rampil)
     4. 10:34 AM - Re: windscreen air (Karl Heindl)
     5. 10:36 AM - Starter problem fixed (Karl Heindl)
     6. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: windscreen air (Fred Klein)
     7. 01:11 PM - Re: Starter problem fixed (Greg Fuchs)
     8. 05:50 PM - Re: windscreen air (rampil)
     9. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: windscreen air (Fred Klein)
    10. 09:28 PM - Re: Re: windscreen air (Gerry Holland)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:29:21 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: where to collect air for air instruments
    From: "rparigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    Hi Graeme I put up some info on panel cooling and demisting ideas: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=78355 My install is near the bottom of this page: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=27305 I went with 4 tiny fans using a three position switch that offers me 2 speeds. I tested a lot of fans, the ones I selected really do offer twice the volume on haldf the amp draw of similar motors. When shop is quiet boy do 4 fans sound sweet. Demisting should be better than nothing and should be able to keep my Dynon and radios happier. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319549#319549


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:56:01 AM PST US
    From: Fergus Kyle <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: windscreen air
    Graeme, I followed the others and installed a ~2" computer fan aligned in the middle of the port seat andthree inches back from the instrument panel front to whisk away heat from my Dynon screen AND hopefully prevent/overcome misting. Easy, simple, switched and hopefully effective. Cheers, Ferg


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:30:05 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: windscreen air
    From: "rampil" <ira.rampil@gmail.com>
    I would wait for people actually flying with these fans in condensing or overheating conditions to report the result of their use before deciding what to do. After a very warm summer in my neck of the woods, I installed a fan over my BMA EFIS into a louver pointed at the plexi. At best, it prolongs the time to EFIS internal temp of 145F by about 15% meaning from (out of the sun 90F) to 145F flying in sun now takes about 30 min instead of 25 min. The BMA displays internal temp and shuts off at 153 or so. Lucky, in the soup it is never that warm! To be a useful amount of cooling air in my glass panel system, I am looking at a straight dump of an outside air vent into the panel on the hottest days to be effective given the IR energy and electric load into the panel. All these pretty little fan setups may work fine on a sunny day in Alaska but not Lakeland Florida. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319603#319603


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:34:06 AM PST US
    From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
    Subject: windscreen air
    Is mist on the windscreen really a problem ? I am asking because I never no ticed any on mine. Cheers=2C Karl From: VE3LVO@rac.ca Subject: Europa-List: windscreen air Message body Graeme=2C I followed the others and installed a ~2=94 computer fan aligned in the middle of the port seat andthree inches back from the instrument panel front to whisk away heat from my Dynon screen AND hopefully prevent/overco me misting. Easy=2C simple=2C switched and hopefully effective. Cheers=2C Ferg


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:36:22 AM PST US
    From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
    Subject: Starter problem fixed
    I should have known that it was something simple=2C but I just couldn't bel ieve that it was an electrical problem=2C because I tried a different power source and cables.Anyway=2C it was the ground connection to the engine=2C a copper ring connector firmly bolted down. I didn't really see any corrosi on=2C but after cleaning it thoroughly everything worked fine.C'est la vie. Karl


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:51:42 AM PST US
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Subject: Re: windscreen air
    > All these pretty little fan setups may work fine on a sunny day in > Alaska but not Lakeland Florida. To All (of those of us who are flying)... Still being just a builder, I'd love to hear more on this subject. My understanding is there are two separate issues...the first being the ability to blow some warm air on the windshield in order to de-mist, and the second being the ability to cool the avionics. Perhaps the little fans can't do both...(?) Fred


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:11:49 PM PST US
    From: "Greg Fuchs " <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
    Subject: Starter problem fixed
    Congratulations on your fix, Karl! Also, thanks for the response. Many times, after a problem is solved, the solution is never placed back on the server. It is sure nice to know what you found. Someone else will undoubtedly have this problem in the future, and will have this to refer to. Greg F ..... it was the ground connection to the engine, a copper ring connector firmly bolted down. I didn't really see any corrosion, but after cleaning it thoroughly everything worked fine. Karl


    Message 8


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    Time: 05:50:29 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: windscreen air
    From: "rampil" <ira.rampil@gmail.com>
    Hi Fred, Its all a question of degree! It is a question of moving heat from on place to another. I don't think the fans would ever need to clear the screen and remove excess heat from the panel at the same time. How cold is the screen below dew point, how many calories needed to warm it above dew point versus how many calories are sucked out, cooling the outside of the screen via the airstream? How many calories need to be pulled out of the panel per minute to match or exceed the IR load dumped into it from the sun. Either way air does not carry many calories per cubic foot, so you need to move lots of them -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319661#319661


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:12:06 PM PST US
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Subject: Re: windscreen air
    On Nov 16, 2010, at 5:45 PM, rampil wrote: > How many calories need to be pulled out of the panel per minute to > match or exceed the IR load dumped into it from the sun. > > Either way air does not carry many calories per cubic foot, so you > need to move lots of them Hi Ira...you're gettin beyond my bandwidth...in your previous post, it seemed to me that your fan installation was for avionics cooling, and I surmised that you achieved but modest improvement. Do you ever encounter windshield fogging or misting, and if so, what have you done or plan to do to alleviate it? (I take it you're not expecting your fan to do very much.) Fred


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:28:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: windscreen air
    From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
    Fred Here in UK I have experienced windscreen misting in two different Europa's. When I built mine I was conscious that air needed extracting through the rear on panel area to reduce by removing some warmer air created by the various panel systems. At the same time it occurred to me and at least one significant other (Paddy!) that it could prove useful if the extraction fans blew across face of front screen. It did prove to be the case and to work, certainly within a 5-10 minute start up and taxi cycle. The side windows are not reached by the fans airflow and they still remain misted and have to be wiped with absorbent cloth to remove that moisture. Both Aircraft had overhead Air Vents using flip up air dam in cabin roof. That proves useful but mainly to reduce inside temperature in summer. It works very well once underway. I also added warm air system and that too added to cabin comfort in winter and reduce internal misting. In climates such as UK in winter with a range between -5C and 15C and a range of humidity on any day from September to April, misting is a feature of the Europa cabin and certainly needs addressing. Take off in IMC just due to condensation is not an experience I personally need! The Cabin clears after a few minutes if any residual misting left in corner areas due to natural leaked airflow in fuselage. Sorry to ramble but in short. Fit Fans if you can with a switched supply and those using EXPBus can also easily control speed of Fans. These Computer Fans are quiet and certainly produce some good airflow. Regardless of theories it worked for me! I now fly an open cockpit aircraft and even here my bloody goggles sometimes mist up. Local comment is that my flying improves significantly during these periods! In the words of Oscar Wilde....Demist or be damned! Yes I have just taken my pills! Regards Gerry Gerry Holland 07808 402404 gholland@content-stream.co.uk Based at White Ox Mead, Near Bath, UK




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