---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/19/10: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:12 AM - Just A Few Days Left; Well Behind Last Year... (Matt Dralle) 1. 05:13 AM - AV8 article (Frank Mycroft) 2. 05:40 AM - Re: AV8 article (Robert C Harrison) 3. 07:29 AM - Re: Fuel filler tube Fixing (G-IANI) 4. 09:13 AM - Re: Fuel filler tube Fixing (Kevin Klinefelter) 5. 09:54 AM - test (mike gamble) 6. 10:10 AM - Re: Fuel filler tube Fixing (G-IANI) 7. 10:10 AM - Re: Fuel filler tube Fixing (Mike Gregory) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:47 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Just A Few Days Left; Well Behind Last Year... Dear Listers, There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser. Response has been good so far, but we're well behind last year at this point. If you've been waiting until the last minute to make your Contribution, now might be good time to show your support and maybe pick up a nice gift as well! Please remember that there is no commercial advertising on these Lists and the *only* means of keeping them running is through your Contributions during this Fund Raiser. If it weren't for your individual Contributions, these Lists could easily become economically infeasible and simply cease to exist. You probably can't even take the family out to dinner for $20 these days, but your individual Contribution of the same amount makes a huge difference in keeping the List services alive. Please make a Contribution today with a Credit Card or Paypal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:10 AM PST US From: "Frank Mycroft" Subject: Europa-List: AV8 article The AV8 article was presumably taken from the Devon Strut Newsletter with some added stock pictures and I thought they did a good job. Except that although I said in my article Wolfsburg (Austria), which is a little village, the photo was of Wolfsburg Germany, a huge town and the home of VW! Frank ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:26 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: AV8 article Yes! Well done Frank I enjoyed it, pity the AV8 mag came out after I'd succumbed to paying for LOOP ! Perhaps I'd have saved some money ! Also your report brings to mind one I submitted to Brian Hope entitled "Baltics Tour" which he claims to have archived but not yet used in the LAA Mag! It's my belief that these mags should include much more flight tours, after all that's what aircraft are really for. There is always full plenty of engineering, new models and restoration. Regards Bob Harrison. _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Mycroft Sent: 19 November 2010 12:55 Subject: Europa-List: AV8 article The AV8 article was presumably taken from the Devon Strut Newsletter with some added stock pictures and I thought they did a good job. Except that although I said in my article Wolfsburg (Austria), which is a little village, the photo was of Wolfsburg Germany, a huge town and the home of VW! Frank ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:20 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filler tube Fixing John I think there is a bit of information lacking here. If you fix the filler to the fuselage as per the book there is a chance that the skin of the aircraft will distort over time (it has on G-IANI and G-IRON). This is very slight but can be seen in a glancing light. . Andy Draper's recommended solution is to put at least one layer of BID on the inner skin to spread the attachment loads over a wider area. Then attach the filler as per the manual. I have not tried it yet but I will do this on the repairs now being done on G-IRON. Unfortunately I will not be able to say if it works for a year or two as it takes this long for the distortion to appear. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:08 AM PST US From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler tube Fixing I added a layer of carbon fiber to the filler area. after a couple years now,I can see the attachment area from the outside in the right light. I recall Bud Yerley posted a method that looked like it would solve the problem... Kevin N211KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "G-IANI" Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 7:25 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filler tube Fixing > > John > > I think there is a bit of information lacking here. > > If you fix the filler to the fuselage as per the book there is a chance > that > the skin of the aircraft will distort over time (it has on G-IANI and > G-IRON). This is very slight but can be seen in a glancing light. . > Andy > Draper's recommended solution is to put at least one layer of BID on the > inner skin to spread the attachment loads over a wider area. Then attach > the filler as per the manual. > > I have not tried it yet but I will do this on the repairs now being done > on > G-IRON. Unfortunately I will not be able to say if it works for a year or > two as it takes this long for the distortion to appear. > > > Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours > Europa Club Mods Specialist > e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:01 AM PST US From: "mike gamble" Subject: Europa-List: test ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:37 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filler tube Fixing Hi Kevin Have you any idea what Bud posted I cannot find anything useful Alternatively, if Bud is watching, would you please repeat your good advice Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:58 AM PST US From: "Mike Gregory" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filler tube Fixing For the benefit of those who did not file it, Bud Yerly's method is copied below, together with his response to Graham Singleton's concern regarding protection from the build-up of static electricity when fuelling. Regards Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Klinefelter Sent: 19 November 2010 17:09 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler tube Fixing I added a layer of carbon fiber to the filler area. after a couple years now,I can see the attachment area from the outside in the right light. I recall Bud Yerley posted a method that looked like it would solve the problem... Kevin N211KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "G-IANI" Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 7:25 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filler tube Fixing > > John > > I think there is a bit of information lacking here. > > If you fix the filler to the fuselage as per the book there is a chance that the skin of the aircraft will distort over time (it has on G-IANI and G-IRON). This is very slight but can be seen in a glancing light. > Andy Draper's recommended solution is to put at least one layer of BID on the inner skin to spread the attachment loads over a wider area. Then attach the filler as per the manual. > > I have not tried it yet but I will do this on the repairs now being done on G-IRON. Unfortunately I will not be able to say if it works for a year or two as it takes this long for the distortion to appear. > > Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours > Europa Club Mods Specialist > e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com > _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: 13 May 2010 18:19 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuselage skin distortion at fuel filler =EF=BB Photo E-mail Play slideshow | Download images Bill, I just saw your post on the list. I am sorry, I thought this was now common knowledge, and I apologize to everyone on the list. Sometimes I get tunnel vision on the way I advise my customers to build this area and don't pass it on. This method has been used successfully for quite a few years now and has been wrinkle free. If it ain't broke, I'm not fixing it. Problem: As the fuel vapors evaporate and vents out, it causes cooling in the PTFE fueling nozzle, the fuel filler tube shrinks and shrinks the fuselage skin along with it. Epoxy sticks to PTFE extremely well so any movement of the tube is translated directly to whatever it is attached to, namely the skin. The manual does not imply that the fuel filler tube should be separated a bit from the fuselage side and only held by the tapes, and not a floxed corner at the juncture of the filler tube to the fuselage (after all, we have gotten used to floxed corners). A little slop in the two glass straps, applied as described in the manual (too briefly), would limit the distortion. Many of us do not like to have a slightly floating fuel filler neck and this is the cure used by many of us. Correction: If you desire to fix your fuel nozzle, cap, and the filler tube solidly to the fuselage, the fuselage side must be reinforced. Put a 3/16 to 1/4 inch layer of blue foam with two layers of bid glass over the foam (similar to the forward wing support) to stabilize the fuel filler contact area to provide for support and prevent expansion/contraction skin deformations. The thickness of the foam will form a more rigid skin that extra glass alone may not correct as the skin is only 1/8 inch thick. Attach the nozzle with straps as described. One at the top, one near the bottom. Procedure I use at Custom Flight: 1. Open the hole in the fuselage top to allow the boss from the filler tube to pass through. 2. Align the fuel filler tube to the fuselage side and temporarily set it against the side of the aircraft, mark where the fuel tube will set and check that the rubber fuel hose will fit and not be folded or bent. 3. Cut a piece of scrap blue foam about 1/4 inch thick, and wider than the fuel tube by about an inch. Set the length from 1 inch minimum below the fuel filler top hole, and stop near the bottom of the flat part of the PTFE filler tube. 4. Affix the blue foam to the fuselage side with 5 minute floxed epoxy on the top and bottom edge and floxed Aeropoxy for the center. Clamp as necessary. Allow to cure. 5. When secure, chamfer the sides to a 45 and round the edges. Spread entirely with micro slurry and two layers of glass, and peel ply. 6. Refit the tube, mark the top for the filler cap flush with the outer fuselage and cut and install the filler cap. Check fit. Once fit is acceptable, Redux the top area around the filler cap inside and out, and affix with glass straps as described in the manual. Peel ply as you will be working around here later. 7. Once all is secure, attach the trimmed rubber fuel elbow and clamp. 8. Use Pro Seal on just the top and bottom points of the rubber fuel elbow if you are concerned about fuel leakage in the event of an overfill. Keep in mind, the fuel tube will have to be cut off to remove it if using Pro Seal (available at A/C Spruce.). 9. Attach fuel vent tubing as appropriate. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations US Dealer. ----- Original Message ----- From: William McClellan Cc: Bud Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:01 PM Subject: Fuselage skin distortion at fuel fill I find only inconclusive information on the forum about fuselage skin distortion that can develop around the fuel fill tube. I can not find additional information. Would you steer me to the correct solution or give me any revised procedure. Thanks, Bill McClellan This MSN Photo E-mail slideshow will be available for 30 days. 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