Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:00 AM - Re: Europa fuel tank - LDPE or HDPE? (Peter Zutrauen)
2. 07:04 AM - Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem? (Remi Guerner)
3. 08:06 AM - Re: Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem? (europapa)
4. 11:05 AM - PROP CONTROL (ROBERT LINDSAY)
5. 12:42 PM - Re: Europa Motor Glider Info Needed (K BURNS)
6. 12:55 PM - Re: Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem? (G-IANI)
7. 02:38 PM - Re: Europa Motor Glider Info Needed (Karl Heindl)
8. 07:59 PM - Re: Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem? (Ralph K. Hallett III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Europa fuel tank - LDPE or HDPE? |
Hi Steve,
Yes, my tank is en-route. As I've been advised from them that if the tank
is not free of contaminants (I had to clean mine inside and out with
naphtha/methanol - nasty) it could be damaged in the process (over-heat from
a reaction with contaminants), I'd recommend that we wait and see how mine
goes. Also, I've asked them to produce an accurate costing for my tank (and
filler snake) with the prospect of doing a few more (grouped together) for
any other builders out there.
One interesting comment by their technical adviser I thought may have some
merit: when he was examining pictures of my tank for a cost estimate, he
advised me that all cuts/openings to the tank must be done prior to the
process, or any exposed freshly cut surface will be an entry point for the
absorption of fuel into the MDPE plastic. This is because the fluorination
treatment is only a surface treatment. So if one takes his opinion as
valid, even if the tanks have been treated to an adequate level by Europa,
cutting into them after-wards drastically diminishes the treatment's
effectiveness.
I'll keep the list updated on the outcome of my tank's adventure, and group
pricing for anybody interested. Of course I won't likely know how effective
it has been for another 10 years or so :-P
Cheers,
Pete
A239
Ottawa, Canada
PS - when I asked the cynical question of "how do I know you even did
anything" I received the following (reassuring?) reply:
*
"Regarding your assurance that your tank has been treated properly, we do
not ship any items to any one of our customers without our QC measures in
place. Through use of a Thermo Electron Fourier Transform Infrared
Spectrophotometer (FTIR) the ratio of available hydrogen sites that have
been replaced with fluorine in comparison to the available hydrogen sites
that have not been replaced with fluorine can be measured. Every item
treated by us must pass our QC before it is released for return shipment. "*
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Steve Hagar <hagargs@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Peter:
>
> Have you sent your tank in yet? I being one who having to "hack my tank
> out" have a tank that I bought a couple of years ago from Bob Berube. I
> don't know how long he had it so its processing is questionable. I had been
> planning on fabricating a metal tank for installation when I got around to
> it so the new plastic tank has been sitting around to be used as a model.
> However I may change my mind and put the stock item in it would be good to
> have the proper processing on it. If the lot charge could be spread over 2
> or more tanks it would be beneficial. Please get with me if this is
> something to be considered.
>
> Thank you ,
>
> Steve Hagar
> A143
> Mesa AZ
> hagargs@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem? |
As there was only one reaction to my post, it seems that only two of us have this
recurrent kick-back problem. Based on old threads years ago, that is surprising.
That is why I repeat my message below:
Hi all,I am the unlucky owner of an engine (912ULS) which is prone to kick back
on cold starts. During the 6 years and 500 hours of operation I have tried EVERYTHING
suggested by the Rotax factory, Rotax distributors worldwide and operators
writing on this forum, including the SoftStart module from Conair. All
these alleged solutions have had some positive effect such as a reduced occurence
of the kick-back and a less violent one, but none of them, even when combined
together, managed to withdraw the kick-back completely.
Now the good news is that Rotax has introduced (at last!) new ignition modules
and a new flywheel hub to fix this problem (see SI-912-020 R4). The new ignition
modules do exactly what the SoftStart does: they prevent the ignition timing
to switch to the 26 degree before TDC as long as the starter motor is activated.
In fact the switching to 26 degrees occurs a few seconds after the starter
button is released. The new flywheel hub features extended trigger cams giving
a 3 degrees after TDC ignition timing during the cranking phase instead of
4 degrees before TDC. Obviously the engine cannot kick back as long as the ignition
happens after TDC, so I strongly believe this change is a radical solution
to the kick-back problem. I do not need the new ignition modules as I already
have the SoftStart. So I will replace the flywheel hub only.
Here are my questions:
1. The price of the new flywheel hub is 315 Euros, French VAT included. To avoid
spending that amount, I am thinking at modifying the existing hub. I would weld
a 7 millimeter extension to the trigger cam trailing edge and machine it on
a lathe or adjust it with a file. It is not necessary to modify both cams as
only one is used with the SoftStart module, the other one being inactive during
the cranking phase. Does anyone know what material (presumably a variety of
ferromagnetic steel) the hub is made of? Any suggestion on how to do this cam
extension?
2. Removing the flywheel hub is very easy, even without removing the engine from
the aircraft. But a special tool is needed to extract the hub from the crankshaft
tapered end. This tool (Rotax P/N 877377) cost 76 Euros VAT included. This
is not very expensive but is too much for a tool I intend to use only once!
Does any one have this tool available and would lend it to me? Are there many
other owners who want to do this mod? If yes we could ask the Europa Club to
purchase the tool for use by the members.
Waiting for your answers
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323536#323536
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem? |
Hi Remi,
Im to complete enervated by the Kick-back problem and Im really glad you found
an cure to this disease. I think this will be it.
However after all the experiences you have made i would like to await your success
in real life.
Please tell us your progress.
Due to the fact th flywheel is turning up to 5800 rpm i would not dare to remove
or add any material and would rather spend the 315 Euro.
Regards Juergen
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323555#323555
Message 4
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I have a Czech made (Woodward type) governor which works fine in the air
controlling my C/S Whirlwind prop on a Rotax 914 (almost 600 hrs). But
recently I have not been able to get an rpm drop during a pre-TO check
at 4000 rpm. Oil is clean and warm. Even a post flight check results
in no rpm drop when cockpit control is fully retarded.
Any ideas before I start de-cowl and disassemble?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Motor Glider Info Needed |
Karl,=0A=0AI eventually wish to add a set of glider wings to my kit, though
t of setting up =0Aa Wing share Syndicate to help on the economics (Any UK
owners please contact =0Ame), will be watching for second hand wings also,
(I can-arrange shipping from =0AUS, EU,-Canada, or down under).=0A=0AKe
vin=0A=0ASailplane-pilot since 1976, Silver C and diamond Height (UK hill
s do get you =0Ahigh)=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom
: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon
day, 6 December, 2010 15:27:51=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Motor Gli
der Info Needed=0A=0AHi Bud, =0A=0AMy total flight time is 13 hours in 19 f
lights. Modification was made to the =0Aairbrakes as I had reported to you
earlier. Results are as expected: easier =0Aairbrake handling and eliminati
on of any flutter.=0A=0AKarl=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________
_________=0AFrom: budyerly@msn.com=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubjec
t: Europa-List: Europa Motor Glider Info Needed=0ADate: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 20:
49:31 -0500=0A=0A=0AGentlemen,=0AI need your help.- I am putting together
an updated list of MG builders.- I have =0Aattached an excel spreadsheet
and pasted the info below.- Please indicate =0Awhether you still have th
e MG kit, set of wings or-the new owner if you sold =0Athem.=0AIf you are
flying, please indicate your total hours accumulated on your MG.- Any
=0Adetail you can forward will be appreciated as it will be used for fleet
data and =0Anotifications of future modifications.- Insert your info into
the table below or =0Ainto the spreadsheet and I and Dave Goddard, Europa'
s chief engineer will update =0Athe corporate records.=0A=0AThank you all,
=0A=0ABud Yerly=0AEuropa Dealer/Tech Assistance=0Apersonal email:- budyer
ly@msn.com=0Awww.customflightcreations.com=0A=0AKnown or Possible Motor Gli
der Owners=0AKit Number Last Name Address City State/Province Country Statu
s Flying Hrs. =0AA002 Agudelo, Jorge Carrera 43A No.1 Medellin - Colombia
- - =0AA026 Wood, Frank Box 1312 Pincher Creek - Alberta Canada -
- =0AA040 Davis, Harry 9526 Secretariat Houston TX USA - - =0AA046 Ki
lian, N. John 906 Park View Rd. Chelan WA USA - - =0AA069 Vaughan, Lee
1153 Carpenter St. Monroe IA USA - - =0AA087 mono Meshulam, Sheldon 983
Diamond Dr. Arcata CA USA - - =0AA087 mono Wilkins, Jimmy 293 Cheyenne
Dr Paso Robles CA USA - - =0AA088 mono Landin, Peter 523 S Washington
St Easton MD USA - - =0AA102 mono Jarc, John 2000 Country Club Dr.- D
aytona Beach- Fl USA - - =0AA102 mono Jarc, John 910 Friendship Rd.
- Seneca SC USA - - =0AA130 mono Pruyne, Kermit 732 S. Washington St.
Rd. Washington MA USA - - =0AA135 mono Deford, David 2143 Foxswallow R
d Pleasanton CA USA - - =0AA158 mg/tri Wilson, John 11587 Avondale Driv
e Fairfax VA USA - - =0AA160 mg Davis, Chris 37 Aunt Zilpas Rd. West Ch
atham MA USA - - =0AA162 mg/tri Neils, Rob 1005 N. Pines Rd Ste250 Spok
eane WA USA - - =0AA164 mono McCleallan, William 3275 Erinlea Ave Newbu
ry Park CA USA - - =0AA180 mono Douglas, Dave 2402 Pebble Dr. Grandbury
TX USA - - =0AA185 mono Butcher, Jim & Heather 3146 N. 5th St. Kalamaz
oo MI USA Under =0Aconstruction - =0A=0AA192 mono Gunnlaugson, Jim 3102 4
3rd St. South Lethbridge AB Canada - - =0AA193 mono Cornell, Fred 4712
Morpis Ave Fort Worth TX USA - - =0AA197 mono Marker, Mike 384 Don SE L
os Lunas NM USA - - =0AA217 mg/mono Dunsmuir, Steven 452 Lake Barnegat
Dr. N. Forked River NJ USA - - =0AA227 mg/mono Anderson, David 1012 Ver
de Way Gardenville NV USA Flying 400 =0AA233 mg/mono Kingsley, Richard 2399
Gold Mine Rd. Kershaw SC USA - - =0AA234 mg/mono Hallett, Ralph 8719 S
tonetly Ct. Reno NV USA - - =0AA240 mg Koester, Bill 185 E. Township Li
ne Rd. Eaton PA USA - - =0AA241 Tri Baker, Homer 17425 Edgerton Rd. Edg
erton KS USA Flying 120 =0AA244 mg/mono Lawton, Doug 139 Quitmon Lane Clark
sesville GA USA - - =0AA274 mg/mono Banhagel, John 13667 North 108th Dr
. Sun City AZ USA For Sale - =0AA277 mg Storey, Nill 3523 Van Horn Rd. Ja
ckson MI USA - - =0AA285 Tri MG Reed, George 14220 Pinehurst Ave Baton
Rouge LA USA Flying >100 =0AA292 mg/mono Doughty, Mark 3676 Morrison Ave Jo
hnstown CO USA - - =0AA293 mg/mono Danner, Martin- III 9485 Cedar Gle
n Cove Cordova TN USA - - =0AUK110 Timm, Peter 9280 168 Street Surrey B
.C. Canada - - =0AUK111- Prout, Kim 1302 N. Monte Vista #5 Upland CA
USA - - =0AUK223 Both, Christoph POBox 1148 Wolfville Nova Scotia Canad
a - - =0AUK392 mg Heindl, Karl 21777 Concession 9 North Lacaster Ontari
o Canada - - =0ATrigear Leinberger, Gary 136N. Charlottes St. Lancaster
PA USA Under =0AConstruction - =0A=0ATrigear Friedlander, Barry - Bold
er CO USA Storage - =0AMono Bolyard, John 1200 E 3rd St. Panama City FL U
SA Under Construction - =0AMono Anderson, Ben 947 Calle Camellia Sierra V
ista AZ USA For Sale - =0A- Maher William E. PO BOX 21237 Long Beach CA
=0A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem? |
Remi
I for one am not ignoring you and have taken careful note of you useful
contribution.
Sorry but as a 914 owner it is not a problem that I know anything about.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Europa Motor Glider Info Needed |
Kevin=2C
Try to locate a set that is almost complete but not yet closed. If you are
re- importing it the LAA will want to inspect it. I don't want to sell mine
just yet. I could be wrong=2C but you may have problem fitting a set of w
ings=2C long or short=2C to different fuselages.
best wishes=2C
Karl
From: kjburns@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Motor Glider Info Needed
Karl=2C
I eventually wish to add a set of glider wings to my kit=2C thought of sett
ing up a Wing share Syndicate to help on the economics (Any UK owners pleas
e contact me)=2C will be watching for second hand wings also=2C (I can arra
nge shipping from US=2C EU=2C Canada=2C or down under).
Kevin
Sailplane pilot since 1976=2C Silver C and diamond Height (UK hills do get
you high)
From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
Sent: Monday=2C 6 December=2C 2010 15:27:51
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Motor Glider Info Needed
Hi Bud=2C
My total flight time is 13 hours in 19 flights. Modification was made to th
e airbrakes as I had reported to you earlier. Results are as expected: easi
er airbrake handling and elimination of any flutter.
Karl
From: budyerly@msn.com
Subject: Europa-List: Europa Motor Glider Info Needed
Gentlemen=2C
I need your help. I am putting together an updated list of MG builders. I
have attached an excel spreadsheet and pasted the info below. Please indi
cate whether you still have the MG kit=2C set of wings or the new owner if
you sold them.
If you are flying=2C please indicate your total hours accumulated on your M
G. Any detail you can forward will be appreciated as it will be used for f
leet data and notifications of future modifications. Insert your info into
the table below or into the spreadsheet and I and Dave Goddard=2C Europa's
chief engineer will update the corporate records.
Thank you all=2C
Bud Yerly
Europa Dealer/Tech Assistance
personal email: budyerly@msn.com
www.customflightcreations.com
Known or Possible Motor Glider Owners
Kit Number
Last Name
Address
City
State/Province
Country
Status
Flying Hrs.
A002
Agudelo=2C Jorge
Carrera 43A No.1
Medellin
Colombia
A026
Wood=2C Frank
Box 1312 Pincher Creek
Alberta
Canada
A040
Davis=2C Harry
9526 Secretariat
Houston
TX
USA
A046
Kilian=2C N. John
906 Park View Rd.
Chelan
WA
USA
A069
Vaughan=2C Lee
1153 Carpenter St.
Monroe
IA
USA
A087 mono
Meshulam=2C Sheldon
983 Diamond Dr.
Arcata
CA
USA
A087 mono
Wilkins=2C Jimmy
293 Cheyenne Dr
Paso Robles
CA
USA
A088 mono
Landin=2C Peter
523 S Washington St
Easton
MD
USA
A102 mono
Jarc=2C John
2000 Country Club Dr.
Daytona Beach
Fl
USA
A102 mono
Jarc=2C John
910 Friendship Rd.
Seneca
SC
USA
A130 mono
Pruyne=2C Kermit
732 S. Washington St. Rd.
Washington
MA
USA
A135 mono
Deford=2C David
2143 Foxswallow Rd
Pleasanton
CA
USA
A158 mg/tri
Wilson=2C John
11587 Avondale Drive
Fairfax
VA
USA
A160 mg
Davis=2C Chris
37 Aunt Zilpas Rd.
West Chatham
MA
USA
A162 mg/tri
Neils=2C Rob
1005 N. Pines Rd Ste250
Spokeane
WA
USA
A164 mono
McCleallan=2C William
3275 Erinlea Ave
Newbury Park
CA
USA
A180 mono
Douglas=2C Dave
2402 Pebble Dr.
Grandbury
TX
USA
A185 mono
Butcher=2C Jim & Heather
3146 N. 5th St.
Kalamazoo
MI
USA
Under construction
A192 mono
Gunnlaugson=2C Jim
3102 43rd St. South
Lethbridge
AB
Canada
A193 mono
Cornell=2C Fred
4712 Morpis Ave
Fort Worth
TX
USA
A197 mono
Marker=2C Mike
384 Don SE
Los Lunas
NM
USA
A217 mg/mono
Dunsmuir=2C Steven
452 Lake Barnegat Dr. N.
Forked River
NJ
USA
A227 mg/mono
Anderson=2C David
1012 Verde Way
Gardenville
NV
USA
Flying
400
A233 mg/mono
Kingsley=2C Richard
2399 Gold Mine Rd.
Kershaw
SC
USA
A234 mg/mono
Hallett=2C Ralph
8719 Stonetly Ct.
Reno
NV
USA
A240 mg
Koester=2C Bill
185 E. Township Line Rd.
Eaton
PA
USA
A241 Tri
Baker=2C Homer
17425 Edgerton Rd.
Edgerton
KS
USA
Flying
120
A244 mg/mono
Lawton=2C Doug
139 Quitmon Lane
Clarksesville
GA
USA
A274 mg/mono
Banhagel=2C John
13667 North 108th Dr.
Sun City
AZ
USA
For Sale
A277 mg
Storey=2C Nill
3523 Van Horn Rd.
Jackson
MI
USA
A285 Tri MG
Reed=2C George
14220 Pinehurst Ave
Baton Rouge
LA
USA
Flying
>100
A292 mg/mono
Doughty=2C Mark
3676 Morrison Ave
Johnstown
CO
USA
A293 mg/mono
Danner=2C Martin III
9485 Cedar Glen Cove
Cordova
TN
USA
UK110
Timm=2C Peter
9280 168 Street
Surrey
B.C.
Canada
UK111
Prout=2C Kim
1302 N. Monte Vista #5
Upland
CA
USA
UK223
Both=2C Christoph
POBox 1148
Wolfville
Nova Scotia
Canada
UK392 mg
Heindl=2C Karl
21777 Concession 9
North Lacaster
Ontario
Canada
Trigear
Leinberger=2C Gary
136N. Charlottes St.
Lancaster
PA
USA
Under Construction
Trigear
Friedlander=2C Barry
Bolder
CO
USA
Storage
Mono
Bolyard=2C John
1200 E 3rd St.
Panama City
FL
USA
Under Construction
Mono
Anderson=2C Ben
947 Calle Camellia
Sierra Vista
AZ
USA
For Sale
Maher William E.
PO BOX 21237
Long Beach
CA
USA
www.-= -->
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Am I the only one to have the kick-back problem? |
Remi,
I have 912S from 2002 that has 680 hours on it, it's new to me so I
don't know the history. However, it has a soft start module and the only
time I have any kick back is when it is very cold, 30deg F or lower. I
might suggest you checking with the rotaxengines-list@matronics.com and
see what they have to offer.
Ralph
On 12/16/2010 7:01 AM, Remi Guerner wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Remi Guerner"<air.guerner@orange.fr>
>
> As there was only one reaction to my post, it seems that only two of us have
this recurrent kick-back problem. Based on old threads years ago, that is surprising.
That is why I repeat my message below:
>
>
> Hi all,I am the unlucky owner of an engine (912ULS) which is prone to kick
back on cold starts. During the 6 years and 500 hours of operation I have tried
EVERYTHING suggested by the Rotax factory, Rotax distributors worldwide and
operators writing on this forum, including the SoftStart module from Conair. All
these alleged solutions have had some positive effect such as a reduced occurence
of the kick-back and a less violent one, but none of them, even when combined
together, managed to withdraw the kick-back completely.
> Now the good news is that Rotax has introduced (at last!) new ignition modules
and a new flywheel hub to fix this problem (see SI-912-020 R4). The new ignition
modules do exactly what the SoftStart does: they prevent the ignition timing
to switch to the 26 degree before TDC as long as the starter motor is activated.
In fact the switching to 26 degrees occurs a few seconds after the starter
button is released. The new flywheel hub features extended trigger cams giving
a 3 degrees after TDC ignition timing during the cranking phase instead of
4 degrees before TDC. Obviously the engine cannot kick back as long as the ignition
happens after TDC, so I strongly believe this change is a radical solution
to the kick-back problem. I do not need the new ignition modules as I already
have the SoftStart. So I will replace the flywheel hub only.
> Here are my questions:
> 1. The price of the new flywheel hub is 315 Euros, French VAT included. To avoid
spending that amount, I am thinking at modifying the existing hub. I would
weld a 7 millimeter extension to the trigger cam trailing edge and machine it
on a lathe or adjust it with a file. It is not necessary to modify both cams
as only one is used with the SoftStart module, the other one being inactive during
the cranking phase. Does anyone know what material (presumably a variety
of ferromagnetic steel) the hub is made of? Any suggestion on how to do this cam
extension?
> 2. Removing the flywheel hub is very easy, even without removing the engine from
the aircraft. But a special tool is needed to extract the hub from the crankshaft
tapered end. This tool (Rotax P/N 877377) cost 76 Euros VAT included.
This is not very expensive but is too much for a tool I intend to use only once!
Does any one have this tool available and would lend it to me? Are there many
other owners who want to do this mod? If yes we could ask the Europa Club to
purchase the tool for use by the members.
> Waiting for your answers
> Regards
> Remi Guerner
> F-PGKL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323536#323536
>
>
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