Europa-List Digest Archive

Wed 01/19/11


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:30 AM - Re: Re: Main wing bushings (Kingsley Hurst)
     2. 03:58 AM - Re: Re: Main wing bushings (William Daniell)
     3. 04:32 AM - Re: Re: Main wing bushings (Peter Zutrauen)
     4. 07:40 AM - bonding thermocouples (Erich Trombley)
     5. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: Main wing bushings (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     6. 08:14 AM - Re: Batteries and fuel systems (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     7. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Main wing bushings (Peter Zutrauen)
     8. 11:37 AM - Mono undercarriage (David Joyce)
     9. 02:04 PM - Fw: Atc notes (Fred Klein)
    10. 07:40 PM - Re: Re: Main wing bushings (Kingsley Hurst)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:30:39 AM PST US
    From: "Kingsley Hurst" <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
    Graham, You said "Just do this with the two wings, forget the bushes in the seat back, they really are better with a loose fit because they increase loads on the wings with G forces." I am heartened to see you feel like I do about the bushes in the seat back. For the life of me, I have never been able to understand the purpose of them except that they may prohibit relative movement between the wings and the fuselage in the span direction. In this case one bush would be sufficient and would not load up the cockpit module/spars as I suspect it does now with the two bushes when under high G loads. Just my 2c worth. Regarding the slop between the pins and the bushes, I did the AUW increase mod and had to replace all original 3/8" bushes with the 1/2" ones. In doing the setting up, I purchased two 1/2" HT bolts and spray painted them with several coats of paint until they were a neat fit. Probably not the smartest idea around but with the limited resources I had it worked and my wing pins are a delight to install and remove. Weather seems to be settling down a bit here now, we have had a drought for the last 24 hrs !! Cheers Kingsley do not archive


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:58:58 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
    From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
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    Message 3


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    Time: 04:32:21 AM PST US
    From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
    Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
    I'm trying to visualize the geometry of the high-g loading scenario wrt to the seat-back bushes imparting additional/undesired stress on the spars. Is this due to the distance between inner and outer spar bushings decreasing when the spars are flexed (due to the arc)? Or is it the twisting moment imparted on the spars due to the one-sided mount (although aren't the lift pins supposed to take the vertical G-loading)? Cheers, Pete A239 On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 4:26 AM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>wrote: > Graham, > > You said "Just do this with the two wings, forget the bushes in the seat > back, they really are better with a loose fit because they increase loads on > the wings with G forces." > > I am heartened to see you feel like I do about the bushes in the seat > back. For the life of me, I have never been able to understand the purpose > of them except that they may prohibit relative movement between the wings > and the fuselage in the span direction. In this case one bush would be > sufficient and would not load up the cockpit module/spars as I suspect it > does now with the two bushes when under high G loads. > > Just my 2c worth. > > Regarding the slop between the pins and the bushes, I did the AUW increase > mod and had to replace all original 3/8" bushes with the 1/2" ones. In > doing the setting up, I purchased two 1/2" HT bolts and spray painted them > with several coats of paint until they were a neat fit. Probably not the > smartest idea around but with the limited resources I had it worked and my > wing pins are a delight to install and remove. > > Weather seems to be settling down a bit here now, we have had a drought for > the last 24 hrs !! > > Cheers > Kingsley > > do not archive > > * > > * > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:40:43 AM PST US
    From: "Erich Trombley" <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
    Subject: bonding thermocouples
    Fred, A couple of ideas come to mind. You could fab an aluminum "P" cla mp around the body of the thrermocouple and attached with a screw or pop rivet to the aluminum plate. Alternatley, you can insert the TC into a piece of aluminum tubing which is 1/2" or so longer then body of the TC with an I.D the same as the O.D of the TC. Flatten the extended piece o f tubing, drill a hole and mount as above. Good luck. Erich TrombleyN28 ET Classic Mono 914 ____________________________________________________________ Banks Forced to Forgive Credit Card Debt Find Out How Much of Your Debt Can Be Erased. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d37051ad5632cae741st06vuc


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:02:26 AM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
    Pete=0Ain +ve G the wing (& spar) bends.so the spar pins are trying to push down while =0Athe lift pins, designed to take the lift loads, are pushing up. So each of these =0Aconflicting tendencies adds to the loading of the o ther. THe twist is also a =0Aproblem probably the same reason=0AI bet Bud h as a better way of describing it =0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________ ________=0AFrom: Peter Zutrauen <peterz@zutrasoft.com>=0ATo: europa-list@ma tronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, 19 January, 2011 12:28:02=0ASubject: Re: Eur opa-List: Re: Main wing bushings=0A=0AI'm trying to visualize the geometry of the high-g loading scenario wrt to the =0Aseat-back bushes imparting add itional/undesired stress on the spars.=0A=0AIs this due to the distance bet ween inner and outer spar bushings decreasing =0Awhen the spars are flexed (due to the arc)? Or is it the twisting moment =0Aimparted on the spars due to the one-sided mount (although aren't the lift pins =0Asupposed to take the vertical G-loading)?=0A=0ACheers,=0APete =0AA239=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Jan 19 , 2011 at 4:26 AM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au> =0Awrote:=0A =0AGraham,=0A> =0A>You said "Just do this with the two wings, forget the b ushes in the seat back, =0A>they really are better with a loose fit becaus e they increase loads on the =0A>wings with G forces."=0A> =0A>I am hearten ed to see you feel like I do about the bushes in the seat back. =0A>For t he life of me, I have never been able to understand the purpose of them =0A>except that they may prohibit relative movement between the wings and the =0A>fuselage in the span direction. In this case one bush would be su fficient and =0A>would not load up the cockpit module/spars as I suspect i t does now with the =0A>two bushes when under high G loads.=0A> =0A>Just m y 2c worth.=0A> =0A>Regarding the slop between the pins and the bushes, I did the AUW increase mod =0A>and had to replace all original 3/8" bushes wi th the 1/2" ones. In doing the =0A>setting up, I purchased two 1/2" HT bo lts and spray painted them with several =0A>coats of paint until they were a neat fit. Probably not the smartest idea =0A>around but with the limit ed resources I had it worked and my wing pins are a =0A>delight to install and remove.=0A> =0A>Weather seems to be settling down a bit here now, we have had a drought for the =0A>last 24 hrs !!=0A> =0A>Cheers=0A>Kingsley=0A > =0A>do not archive=0A> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat or?Europa-List =0A>tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.c ======================= =0A


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:14:27 AM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Batteries and fuel systems
    Wlliam=0AI can't open your emails, something wrong with your server?=0AGrah am=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: William Daniell < wdaniell@etb.net.co>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matroni cs.com>=0ASent: Monday, 6 September, 2010 21:34:04=0ASubject: Europa-List: Batteries and fuel systems=0A


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:36:18 AM PST US
    From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
    Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
    Yes, I see now (since the spar pins are inboard of the lift pins and along the arc of the bending spars). Thx! Pete A239 On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:57 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON < grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote: > Pete > in +ve G the wing (& spar) bends.so the spar pins are trying to push down > while the lift pins, designed to take the lift loads, are pushing up. So > each of these conflicting tendencies adds to the loading of the other. THe > twist is also a problem probably the same reason > I bet Bud has a better way of describing it > Graham > ------------------------------ > *From:* Peter Zutrauen <peterz@zutrasoft.com> > > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, 19 January, 2011 12:28:02 > > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings > > I'm trying to visualize the geometry of the high-g loading scenario wrt to > the seat-back bushes imparting additional/undesired stress on the spars. > > Is this due to the distance between inner and outer spar bushings > decreasing when the spars are flexed (due to the arc)? Or is it the twisting > moment imparted on the spars due to the one-sided mount (although aren't the > lift pins supposed to take the vertical G-loading)? > > Cheers, > Pete > A239 > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 4:26 AM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>wrote: > >> Graham, >> >> You said "Just do this with the two wings, forget the bushes in the seat >> back, they really are better with a loose fit because they increase loads on >> the wings with G forces." >> >> I am heartened to see you feel like I do about the bushes in the seat >> back. For the life of me, I have never been able to understand the purpose >> of them except that they may prohibit relative movement between the wings >> and the fuselage in the span direction. In this case one bush would be >> sufficient and would not load up the cockpit module/spars as I suspect it >> does now with the two bushes when under high G loads. >> >> Just my 2c worth. >> >> Regarding the slop between the pins and the bushes, I did the AUW increase >> mod and had to replace all original 3/8" bushes with the 1/2" ones. In >> doing the setting up, I purchased two 1/2" HT bolts and spray painted them >> with several coats of paint until they were a neat fit. Probably not the >> smartest idea around but with the limited resources I had it worked and my >> wing pins are a delight to install and remove. >> >> Weather seems to be settling down a bit here now, we have had a drought >> for the last 24 hrs !! >> >> Cheers >> Kingsley >> >> do not archive >> >> * >> >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > *http://www.matronics.com/con=============== > * > > * > > > * > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:37:24 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Mono undercarriage
    I am refurbishing some slightly bent bits in my U/C ( bent after an encounter with an unseen dip, while landing in an unprepared farmer's field) and find that the 2 shock absorbers/dampers are pretty much shot. They are 10+ years/800+ hrs old so may simply be suffering from old age (like the pilot!) In looking through the build manual I see that these are described as optional. Does anyone have an educated view of the benefits of fitting them or not ( you can assume that I shall not be landing in too many unprepared fields!) Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:04:40 PM PST US
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Subject: Fwd: Atc notes
    A bit off topic...this just in from my son. Begin forwarded message: > From: Phil Klein <phil@penpixel.com> > Date: January 19, 2011 9:59:58 AM PST > To: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> > Subject: Atc notes > > From L Miller (Jan 2010): > > A British Airways 737 touched down at Frankfurt-am-Main. The tower > controller, obviously in frivolous mood, transmitted: "Speedbird > 123. Nice landing Captain, But a little left of the centre-line, I > think." Quick as a flash, the BA Captain replied in a cool English > accent: "Roger Frankfurt Tower. Perfectly correct. I am a little to > the left of the centre-line. And my co-pilot is a little to the > right of it." > do not archive


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:40:08 PM PST US
    From: "Kingsley Hurst" <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Main wing bushings
    Hello Will, I am not suggesting there is any alternative for us as builders. The design "as is" obviously fits the bill so the old adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is appropriate. >From a designer's point of view however, if you inspect the various methods employed by sailplane manufacturers, there are possibly better ways of doing it. I have never seen a sailplane with the same set-up as the Europa but that doesn't mean there isn't any. Ivan Shaw did get some ideas from sailplanes so maybe he found one . . . . I dunno! Cheers Kingsley do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: William Daniell To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 9:57 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Main wing bushings Kingsley I don't understand due to my limited knowledge of the engineering. What alternative might there be? Will




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