---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/07/11: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:54 AM - Re: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions (Steven Pitt) 2. 02:03 AM - Ignition switch wiring (Remi Guerner) 3. 02:04 AM - trailer tie downs (Steven Pitt) 4. 03:04 AM - SV: trailer tie downs (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 5. 04:14 AM - Tailplane retention mod (William Daniell) 6. 06:09 AM - Re: Ignition switch wiring (Robert Borger) 7. 07:34 AM - Re: Tailplane retention mod (G-IANI) 8. 08:28 AM - Re: Tailplane retention mod (jglazener) 9. 09:23 AM - Re: Tailplane retention mod (William Daniell) 10. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: Tailplane retention mod (G-IANI) 11. 11:02 AM - DOTH? (Richard Iddon) 12. 12:57 PM - Re: DOTH? (Bob Harrison) 13. 01:36 PM - SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions (Roland) 14. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Tailplane retention mod (craigb) 15. 01:52 PM - Re: DOTH? (Richard Iddon) 16. 10:41 PM - Re: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions (Karl Heindl) 17. 10:51 PM - Re: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions (Karl Heindl) 18. 11:55 PM - Re: DOTH? (Steven Pitt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:25 AM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions I have been watching these discussions with interest and you may wish to consider an alternative approach to winching and safe towing of your trigear. I have had my trailer for 6 years or so and been towing the aircraft over some fairly long distances (including 'rescuing' a trigear from Shoreham to Nottingham). I have a winch in the nose of the trailer and use a modified nosewheel through bolt/axle which is threaded both ends (the modification was carried out by Bud in Florida) - I can then attach the winch to the axle on both sides using ring nuts purchased from any Yachting Chandler. These then serve two purposes - first to winch the aircraft into the closed trailer and secondly using bottle bolts to tie the nose wheel to the trailer floor for towing (ensuring no significant movement in the nosewheel on the move). For the main wheels, I considered using a dummy spar tied at each end to the trailer floor but in the end decided against that as the weight of the aircraft jumping whilst towing could rip the floor out. Accordingly I have a tie down bolt in the tail to which I attach two bungy cords to the floor at the rear of the trailer. Whilst this allows some flexing the movement of the tail is damped. As far as chocking the main wheels I have a wooden chock front of the tyres (bolted to the floor) and a chock that drops behind the main wheels to lock them in place. Realising that a picture tells a thousand words I will take some photos later today to try to explain in more detail. I hope this helps and if anyone wants further info please contact me. I know that there are variations on this theme - Ian Rickard (G-IANI) has a really nice trailer and whilst his mainwheels have a similar chocking arrangement he has a bar under his tail to prevent the tail moving in transit. Regards Steve Pitt G-SMDH ----- Original Message ----- From: Michel AUVRAY To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:22 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions Le 07/02/2011 01:45, Karl Heindl a =E9crit : Roland, I installed stainless steel eye bolts in the fuselage right behind the top of the legs. Installation is very simple, i.e. an 8mm hole which also goes through the steel plate which is embedded in the layups. Then in the baggage compartment I placed a large washer and locknut over the bolt to make it very secure. Before winching the aircraft onto the trailer I tie a rope or whatever between the two eyes (they are circular not an open hook), and attach the winch cable to it. I have used it many times without any sign of wear. I also use them as additional tiedown points, as well as the wheels without the spats. I vaguely remember Neville suggesting something like that a long time ago. Cheers, Karl > Subject: Europa-List: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions > From: schmidtroland@web.de > Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 12:39:35 -0800 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Svein, > > comprehensible reasons for choosing the main-undercarriage. I will suggest the trailer-company to check this variant, although they also use some kind of clamps. > > Since the G-BZTI doesn't have a tie down hook at its tail, pulling the plane in front first might be a good option and since the trailer has to be adapted anyway, "changing the direction" might also be possible. Another advantage would be, that the tail fin doesn't come up, when entering the trailer on the ramps. > > Very useful ideas - thank you. > > Roland > G-BZTI > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329879#329879 > > > > >====================== &g=============== > > > Hi Karl, Do you have pictures of it? Thanks -- Michel AUVRAY l -----(*)----- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:34 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Ignition switch wiring From: "Remi Guerner" Hi all, Still investigating the kick back problem on my 912S, I have a question for electronic engineers: The Rotax schematic shows two separate AWG18 shielded wires from the ignition modules to the ignition switches. On my aircraft, I have a twisted pair of wires, probably smaller than AWG18, inside a single braided shielding. Is it possible that this configuration cause interference between the two circuits so that when ignition A is active and ignition B is grounded, ignition B may produce some spark while I am cranking the engine? Regards Remi F-PGKL, 820 hours Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329925#329925 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:43 AM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Europa-List: trailer tie downs Further to my earlier email I have now photographed my tie downs and these are attached. 2564 and 2562 show the nose wheel with the bolts on and off the nose axle bolt. 2561 shows the winch, straps and tie down bottle screws ready in place. 2559 is the mainwheel chocking arrangement. Nothing ties down the main wheels but the chocks hold the aircraft in place. Hope this helps. If you need bigger resolutions on the photos let me know. Steve Pitt Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: DSCN2559 DSCN2561 DSCN2562 DSCN2564 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:02 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: SV: Europa-List: trailer tie downs Interesting topic! There is no one "right" solution here, and I have no desire to defend my main wheel clamps solution. I will, however, add a few more thoughts: Many tie-down solutions are OK for normal towing on a good or decent road. But what happens if the trailer have a hard bounce, or even worse - what happens if the trailer runs off the side of the road, or comes to an abrupt stop because you have a collision, or somebody hits the trailer from behind and jerks it forward? Will hard bumps/sudden stops introduce shock loads onto the tie-down or the fixing points on the aircraft, and will the arrangement hold the aircraft in place at odd angles? I shall not be judge of which arrangement is best, only point to the following regarding the main wheel clamps: - The tie-downs are spread to the widest possible separation from the centerline, i.e. best possible "capsizing" stability. - The inflated main wheels transfer the tie-down loads, i.e. reduces shock loads. Regardless of arrangement, the tie-downs must be very well anchored to the trailer - not only to the trailer deck of plywood or aluminum sheet, but to the carrying structure of the trailer. Regards, Svein ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:48 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane retention mod I got my tail out and started going through the tailplane retention mod - the one where you have to dig a hole in the underneath of the tailplane. Do you need longer pip pins and if so what is the reference and where do I get them from? Thanks Will ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ignition switch wiring From: Robert Borger Remi, That is very highly unlikely. The whole purpose of the twisted pair is to reduce noise and interference. Best regards, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Feb 7, 2011, at 4:00, Remi Guerner wrote: > > Hi all, > > Still investigating the kick back problem on my 912S, I have a question for electronic engineers: > The Rotax schematic shows two separate AWG18 shielded wires from the ignition modules to the ignition switches. On my aircraft, I have a twisted pair of wires, probably smaller than AWG18, inside a single braided shielding. Is it possible that this configuration cause interference between the two circuits so that when ignition A is active and ignition B is grounded, ignition B may produce some spark while I am cranking the engine? > > Regards > Remi > F-PGKL, 820 hours ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:29 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane retention mod Will I have done Mod 73 about 10 times so far. Of these only a couple of builders decided to buy longer pins. In general you do not need a longer pin if you carefully recess round the hole. Europa have longer pins if you want them. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 07 February 2011 12:11 Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane retention mod I got my tail out and started going through the tailplane retention mod - the one where you have to dig a hole in the underneath of the tailplane. Do you need longer pip pins and if so what is the reference and where do I get them from? Thanks Will ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:03 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Tailplane retention mod From: "jglazener" Ian, I have just been doing Mod 73. What struck me was that for this recess you have to lap the bid onto the tailplane surface. If you then cover it with two more plies, there is going to be a pretty substantial bump which will inevitably influence the aerodynamics. It is also incredibly difficult to do without making bubbles. The top recess on the other hand only needs flox corners and can be trimmed flush. Do you know why this is? Best regards, Jeroen Glazener http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=44165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329979#329979 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:07 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane retention mod Thanks I was wondering.... I even bought some longer pins in anticipation of doing the mod from McMaster...but yesterday I fitted them and pulled (by the body not the ring) to test retention and out they came...not encouraging! So I think I'll use the originals which don't come out when you pull them. AT least mine don't. Yours Will ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:27 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Tailplane retention mod Jeroen The simple answer is that the LAA wanted the best possible bond between the bearing and the skin. It is a difficult layup to do which is why I have done so many other peoples aircraft. Make sure you make a reasonable radius from the "pit" onto the skin. The two layers of BID on the surface should only be about 0.6mm thick and when flared in with some filler are not noticeable. I have not detected any noticeable change in handling so I assume the aerodynamics are OK Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:59 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH? Looks like being a nice day all over tomorrow. Anyone else fancy a DOTH? Open to suggestions as to where as I have out of touch for a while. Richard Iddon G-RIXS ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:09 PM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH? Hi! Richard. I would have if I could but G-PTAG is grounded for "seasonal " Maintenance. Regards Bob H From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon Sent: 07 February 2011 18:58 Subject: Europa-List: DOTH? Looks like being a nice day all over tomorrow. Anyone else fancy a DOTH? Open to suggestions as to where as I have out of touch for a while. Richard Iddon G-RIXS ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:31 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions From: "Roland" Interesting and useful discussion in fact. Karl, I'm also interested in a photo of the eye bolts you've mounted behind the U/C-legs (as possible from the in- and outside). My fellow Europa friends, there is another thing to solve for me: as I probably mentioned already, I have to pick up my plane 1000 kilometres away from my homebase in Perranporth. Within the next few weeks my trailer will become adapted (has to be enhanced a little later I guess because I only have some dimensions and drawings for the trailer company), which includes a wider track for the main wheels. Since I can only modify the plane itself when I have it here, the question is, where I can tie it down on the trailer provisional in addition to the main-U/C (front wheel leg or fuselage between cabin and fin or both - again: it has no tie down hook) to bring it here in one piece. Is it okay to allow movement of the plane or do I have to tie it down very tight? Any ideas most welcome. Roland G-BZTI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330038#330038 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:19 PM PST US From: "craigb" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Tailplane retention mod As for the BUMP, if you use some sponge rubber (dish washing, seat bases etc) Cut some pieces about 10-15mm bigger than the hole all round, and another piece For the skin surface, wrap the foam in lunch wrap plastic and put it in the hole After you do your layup, and then the large skin piece over the hole, with plastic again And some heavy (4 or 5 kg) object, like a sand bag on top, will compress the layups Much the same as vacuum bagging would, it will generally push any excess resin out past The edge of the cloth, giving you a "glass like" very smooth compact layup. I use this Method for most of my glass work now where conformation into or onto a complex shape would see a constant fight with the glass lifting creating "bubbles" underneath. Four Layers of bid done like this looks like about 1 layer thick Hope this helps Regards craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jglazener Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2011 2:25 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Tailplane retention mod Ian, I have just been doing Mod 73. What struck me was that for this recess you have to lap the bid onto the tailplane surface. If you then cover it with two more plies, there is going to be a pretty substantial bump which will inevitably influence the aerodynamics. It is also incredibly difficult to do without making bubbles. The top recess on the other hand only needs flox corners and can be trimmed flush. Do you know why this is? Best regards, Jeroen Glazener http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=44165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=329979#329979 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:18 PM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH? In the absence of any other suggestions, I propose heading for Sleap tomorrow. Should be there about 12 as usual. PPR required I believe. Richard. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon Sent: 07 February 2011 18:58 Subject: Europa-List: DOTH? Looks like being a nice day all over tomorrow. Anyone else fancy a DOTH? Open to suggestions as to where as I have out of touch for a while. Richard Iddon G-RIXS ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:05 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions http://www.thomasnet.com/catalognavigator.html?cid=10051928&cov=NA&what =Eye+Bolts&heading=6500409&searchpos=1&cnurl=http://lexco.thomasnet .com/Category/gs-hardware-eye-bolts-stainless-steel-br-eye-bolts&prodpos= 1&searchpos=1 Roland=2C the above link takes you to one.I also used them for wing tiedowns for my 4 wings=2C but it is not possible to retro-fit to the standard wings. Karl > Subject: Europa-List: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions > From: schmidtroland@web.de > Date: Mon=2C 7 Feb 2011 13:33:19 -0800 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Interesting and useful discussion in fact. > > Karl=2C I'm also interested in a photo of the eye bolts you've mounted be hind the U/C-legs (as possible from the in- and outside). > > My fellow Europa friends=2C there is another thing to solve for me: as I probably mentioned already=2C I have to pick up my plane 1000 kilometres aw ay from my homebase in Perranporth. Within the next few weeks my trailer wi ll become adapted (has to be enhanced a little later I guess because I only have some dimensions and drawings for the trailer company)=2C which includ es a wider track for the main wheels. Since I can only modify the plane its elf when I have it here=2C the question is=2C where I can tie it down on th e trailer provisional in addition to the main-U/C (front wheel leg or fusel age between cabin and fin or both - again: it has no tie down hook) to brin g it here in one piece. Is it okay to allow movement of the plane or do I h ave to tie it down very tight? > > Any ideas most welcome. > > Roland > G-BZTI > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330038#330038 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:06 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions To be more specific: look at www.lexcocable.com and part number 307S-860. > Subject: Europa-List: SV: SV: Re: Some Trigear dimensions > From: schmidtroland@web.de > Date: Mon=2C 7 Feb 2011 13:33:19 -0800 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Interesting and useful discussion in fact. > > Karl=2C I'm also interested in a photo of the eye bolts you've mounted be hind the U/C-legs (as possible from the in- and outside). > > My fellow Europa friends=2C there is another thing to solve for me: as I probably mentioned already=2C I have to pick up my plane 1000 kilometres aw ay from my homebase in Perranporth. Within the next few weeks my trailer wi ll become adapted (has to be enhanced a little later I guess because I only have some dimensions and drawings for the trailer company)=2C which includ es a wider track for the main wheels. Since I can only modify the plane its elf when I have it here=2C the question is=2C where I can tie it down on th e trailer provisional in addition to the main-U/C (front wheel leg or fusel age between cabin and fin or both - again: it has no tie down hook) to brin g it here in one piece. Is it okay to allow movement of the plane or do I h ave to tie it down very tight? > > Any ideas most welcome. > > Roland > G-BZTI > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330038#330038 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:54 PM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH? Sorry Richard - out of action at present rebuilding my panel. Regards Steve Pitt G-SMDH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Iddon" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:58 PM Subject: Europa-List: DOTH? > Looks like being a nice day all over tomorrow. Anyone else fancy a DOTH? > Open to suggestions as to where as I have out of touch for a while. > > > > Richard Iddon G-RIXS > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.