---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/23/11: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:47 AM - Cambridge Landing. (Paddy Clarke) 2. 03:44 AM - Re: Cambridge Landing. (Bob Harrison) 3. 08:40 PM - Re: Weight and Balance Scales (Bud Yerly) 4. 10:59 PM - Re: Weight and Balance Scales (duanefamly@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:54 AM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: Cambridge Landing. Hi Folks, A word of warning. Don't forget to take your free landing voucher if you go to Cambridge this month. The regular cost is GBP 25 ! All the Best, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:09 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cambridge Landing. Hi! Paddy Nice flights yesterday to Cambridge..............thanks for not telling everyone I was the "sucker" who had to shell out the 25 landing fee for not having a voucher! They clearly had a fist full of vouchers so have probably shot themselves in the foot because everyone will be shouting "Don't go the Cambridge they want your eye sockets as well as eyeballs! ..........at least I didn't have to own up when I got home! My spendthrift Brother made a big gesture and gave me 20 towards fuel and the landing anyway......last of the big spenders ....what? Good to fly again Paddy. Regards to all Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paddy Clarke Sent: 23 March 2011 09:45 Subject: Europa-List: Cambridge Landing. Hi Folks, A word of warning. Don't forget to take your free landing voucher if you go to Cambridge this month. The regular cost is GBP 25 ! All the Best, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:27 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Weight and Balance Scales I hate to but in, but weight and balance is not a sorta, kinda, maybe about this many pounds measurement. We all spend hours making sure our aircraft is within .1 degree and exact sweep and incidence and then weigh the aircraft and measure the balance points with a grease pencil and a bath scale certified by our last physical weigh in. I know calibrated scales are expensive, but go to your airports certified weight and balance professional or if you insist on doing it yourself, go to the racing community and find a set of certified scales of the proper size and range and rent them or borrow them for a day.. Load cells are best, but I must admit some spring types are quite accurate. It amazes me that the car guys and go cart enthusiasts have superb scales. I have seen them for as low as $500 new. I know this as I lived next door to a sprint car builder and he had the neatest stuff. Use a good level, plumb bobs, and tape measures and be accurate. Follow the operators handbook instructions. I recently had a plane in the shop that was touted as only 875 lbs, using bath scales. The actual weight was 904 and his CG was off by a half and inch because he used the dimensions in the book instead of measuring his own plane. Luckily our little bird is tolerable of many things, including loading and weight and balance errors. Putting a 2 X 6 between two scales can work, but verify with accurate weights and get a good tare of the scales. Make sure the weigh ins are repeatable and use a known set of weights to verify the scales range and accuracy. If using two scales with a beam between, verify the positon of the beam and where the tire center will sit. It costs me a couple of hours and a couple hundred bucks for Walter Hudson (FAA Certified weight and balance tech, A&P and homebuilder) to come by and weigh the planes in my shop. Dead on, certified, and repeatable results. Kevin, I do the same thing. I built ramps and blocks the exact height of the scales and of course from plumb bobs down the cowl line, the axles and then careful measurements to get my distances for the moments. Jigs like this make things simple. For the mono I must admit, to being extremely lazy and use a finger to balance the wing by pushing up on the heavy wing and down on the light wing and average the difference. I have not found a mono more than a couple of pounds out of perfect balance. Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: K BURNS To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 2:20 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Weight and Balance Scales Hi, One set of scales would do with two spacer blocks under the wheels same height as scale, weigh at one wheel then either with jacks or 3 ramps move the scale from wheel to wheel , replacing with a block to keep the a/c level , recording your figures as you go on your balance sheet. (easier to use 3 blocks if only using one jack so you can lift remove scale lower on spare block then move jack to next wheel) Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Robert Borger To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, 20 March, 2011 14:44:45 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Weight and Balance Scales Mike, I played on balances.com for a bit and on a 400 lb search I found a Siltec 440LB GS1 digital scale for $78.95. It's a bathroom scale but three of them ($236.85) would probably do the job as long as your aircraft is under 900 lbs and you are careful getting the mains onto the scale. Bob Borger On Mar 20, 2011, at 1:36, DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: In the USA, what are people using with regard to scales when they do their weight and balance calculations? What capacity is needed? Mike Duane Redding, California Europa XS Conventional Gear http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Weight and Balance Scales From: duanefamly@aol.com Bud, But in, but in......I have a lot of respect for your opinion.....so I will error towards the "closer to perfect and repeatable" measurements. It'll be my butt up there, and boy would I be pissed at myself if I killed myself. Thanks for your input. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Bud Yerly Sent: Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:40 pm Subject: Re: Europa-List: Weight and Balance Scales I hate to but in, but weight and balance is not a sorta, kinda, maybe about this many pounds measurement. We all spend hours making sure our aircraft is within .1 degree and exact sweep and incidence and then weigh the aircr aft and measure the balance points with a grease pencil and a bath scale ce rtified by our last physical weigh in. I know calibrated scales are expensive, but go to your airports certified w eight and balance professional or if you insist on doing it yourself, go to the racing community and find a set of certified scales of the proper size and range and rent them or borrow them for a day.. Load cells are best, b ut I must admit some spring types are quite accurate. It amazes me that th e car guys and go cart enthusiasts have superb scales. I have seen them fo r as low as $500 new. I know this as I lived next door to a sprint car bui lder and he had the neatest stuff. Use a good level, plumb bobs, and tape measures and be accurate. Follow th e operators handbook instructions. I recently had a plane in the shop that was touted as only 875 lbs, using bath scales. The actual weight was 904 and his CG was off by a half and inch because he used the dimensions in the book instead of measuring his own plane. Luckily our little bird is toler able of many things, including loading and weight and balance errors. Putt ing a 2 X 6 between two scales can work, but verify with accurate weights a nd get a good tare of the scales. Make sure the weigh ins are repeatable a nd use a known set of weights to verify the scales range and accuracy. If using two scales with a beam between, verify the positon of the beam and wh ere the tire center will sit. It costs me a couple of hours and a couple hundred bucks for Walter Hudson (FAA Certified weight and balance tech, A&P and homebuilder) to come by and weigh the planes in my shop. Dead on, certified, and repeatable results. Kevin, I do the same thing. I built ramps and blocks the exact height of t he scales and of course from plumb bobs down the cowl line, the axles and t hen careful measurements to get my distances for the moments. Jigs like th is make things simple. For the mono I must admit, to being extremely lazy and use a finger to balance the wing by pushing up on the heavy wing and do wn on the light wing and average the difference. I have not found a mono m ore than a couple of pounds out of perfect balance. Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: K BURNS Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 2:20 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Weight and Balance Scales Hi, One set of scales would do with two spacer blocks under the wheels same hei ght as scale, weigh at one wheel then either with jacks or 3 ramps move th e scale from wheel to wheel , replacing with a block to keep the a/c level , recording your figures as you go on your balance sheet. (easier to use 3 blocks if only using one jack so you can lift remove scale lower on spare block then move jack to next wheel) Kevin From: Robert Borger Sent: Sunday, 20 March, 2011 14:44:45 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Weight and Balance Scales Mike, I played on balances.com for a bit and on a 400 lb search I found a Siltec 440LB GS1 digital scale for $78.95. It's a bathroom scale but three of the m ($236.85) would probably do the job as long as your aircraft is under 900 lbs and you are careful getting the mains onto the scale. Bob Borger On Mar 20, 2011, at 1:36, DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: In the USA, what are people using with regard to scales when they do their weight and balance calculations? What capacity is needed? Mike Duane Redding, California Europa XS Conventional Gear href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronhre f="http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/c -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= -- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= -- http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= -- http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.