Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:05 AM - Re: Upholstery (Steade)
2. 03:53 AM - Re: Upholstery (Brian Davies)
3. 06:40 AM - Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax (Frans Veldman)
4. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax (Frans Veldman)
5. 07:03 AM - Re: Upholstery (Steven Pitt)
6. 07:26 AM - Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax (AirEupora)
7. 08:05 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax (glenn crowder)
8. 08:24 AM - Re: (Bud Yerly)
9. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (Bud Yerly)
10. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
11. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (Jeffrey Roberts)
12. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (Fred Klein)
13. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (Greg Fuchs)
14. 01:29 PM - Re: Europa Classic fuel filler pipe (graeme bird)
15. 01:39 PM - Re: place for venturi -in air duct? (graeme bird)
16. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (William McClellan)
17. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (Fred Klein)
18. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (Curtis Jaussi)
19. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (Greg Fuchs)
20. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
21. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
22. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
23. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
24. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax (Kevin Klinefelter)
25. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (Robert Borger)
26. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. (Jeffrey Roberts)
27. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: Europa Classic fuel filler pipe (Luc Michaud)
28. 10:48 PM - The demise of AvGas (scouttwo)
29. 11:36 PM - Re: The demise of AvGas (Frans Veldman)
Message 1
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Hi All
It seems that there are no commercial suppliers of upholstery in the UK.
My request for contacts has resulted in the suggestion of Matthew Leach
but he has been out of contact for over a year now.
The only other reply is from another poor soul who is also looking for a
supplier.
So just incase someone is out their who knows a supplier I will put the
request out again.
If anyone knows a decent upholsterer for a Trigear XS please let me
know.
Regards
David Steade
Message 2
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The Europa factory is still listing upholstery kits on its website. Have
you spoken to them?
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steade
Sent: 18 April 2011 09:02
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Upholstery
Hi All
It seems that there are no commercial suppliers of upholstery in the UK.
My request for contacts has resulted in the suggestion of Matthew Leach but
he has been out of contact for over a year now.
The only other reply is from another poor soul who is also looking for a
supplier.
So just incase someone is out their who knows a supplier I will put the
request out again.
If anyone knows a decent upholsterer for a Trigear XS please let me know.
Regards
David Steade
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax |
On 04/16/2011 10:18 PM, Kevin Klinefelter wrote:
>
> You are comparing a Jabiru to the turbocharged Rotax, which is more of
> an "apples to oranges" comparison. Better to compare with the 912 and 912s.
> And I think a 914 is close to 30,000 USD. The Jab is going to use far
> more fuel than a Rotax. I find that on average the 914 in my Monowheel
> is using 5 GPH.
I fly my 914, on a heavy hi-top tri-gear, is using about 16 l/h (about 4
GPH) for cruising at 120 knots.
Frans
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax |
On 04/17/2011 07:41 PM, AirEupora wrote:
>
> You are right Kevin. Trying to compare a Jabiru to a Rotax 912 or 914 is like
comparing Apples and Oranges. Both taste good.
Has the Jab a turbo?
> The Jabiru will use a little over one gallon more per hour so it will cost me
$5.00 more an hour to operate.
Make it two gallon per hour. That's 10 dollar per hour. And not to
mention that with a turbo you will be able to fly higher and benefit
from a higher true airspeed, further reducing the fuel required for a trip.
Lower fuel consumption means not only cheaper in operations, but also
the ability to fly longer legs without refueling, or just a saving in
fuel weight if you just fill her up for a certain time of flying.
> If I get to fly 100 hour this coming year it will cost me $500.00 dollars this
year over your cost for fuel.
That's really short term calculating. Let's say the airplane plus its
engine will see a service life of 1500 hours. Then the jab has consumed
$15000 more than the Rotax (ignoring the fact that the fuel prices will
go up). Indeed over the service life of the airplane even a 914 with
turbo is cheaper than a jab. Not to mention the selling price which is
clearly higher for a 914 than for a jabiru, if you ever choose to sell
your airplane.
That was about money. Now think about performance. Or maybe you plan to
fly only close to the sea level and the higher altitude performance
hasn't a significant meaning to you.
You liked to compare against a 914. A 912 is significantly more
affordable and consumes about the same amount of fuel as a 914. With a
912 you actually gain a lot of money over the service life compared to a
Jabiru.
Just some thoughts. (I don't care what you install in your airplane, but
I hope you are seeing the whole picture. It would be a shame if the
project you invested so much of your time in is going to disappoint to.
Apparently quite some people got very frustrated with their Jabiru, and
some even converted to a Rotax 914 and wasted the money of their Jab.
Now let's do the calculation again...)
Frans
Message 5
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David,
Europa still sell an upholstery kit which I installed in my trigear last
year. Contact Karen Ward at Europa for details.
karen.ward@swiftaircraft.co.uk
Regards
Steve Pitt
Vice Chairman Europa Club
G-SMDH Europa trigear XS
----- Original Message -----
From: Steade
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Upholstery
Hi All
It seems that there are no commercial suppliers of upholstery in the
UK.
My request for contacts has resulted in the suggestion of Matthew
Leach but he has been out of contact for over a year now.
The only other reply is from another poor soul who is also looking for
a supplier.
So just incase someone is out their who knows a supplier I will put
the request out again.
If anyone knows a decent upholsterer for a Trigear XS please let me
know.
Regards
David Steade
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax |
Just after I receive the kit I started looking at looking at engines. I had just
finished building a plane with an engine that was to big for the plane. I
wanted only to build accordance with the manufactures recommendations. The original
Eurpora had an 80HP Rotax, but I think all pilot's are like Tim Allen,
"MORE POWER"! I have a speed sheet of all the numbers. TBO, MPG, HP, Torque,
speed, price, two blade, three blade, constant speed, ground adjustable. I used
this forum and read all the remarks. I drove to San Diego and looked at a
Subaru installation. That scared me. I had just gone through putting a bigger
engine on an airframe and I wanted firewall forward no changes. I looked at
120 vs. 115 HP then the prices. I read about the problems so I knew going in
I would need a good EFIS system to monitor the engine. I choose the MGL Voyager.
I can monitor the six cylinders and record the flight information during
testing. I knew that Jabiru had made a lot of changes to the engine from when
Graham had tried it. There were larger fins now, hydraulic lifters and a couple
of things that help. Again, PRICE. One thing I liked about the Jabiru
was the KISS principle. I get to fly my plane for forty hours. Surely, I can
figure out my problems during that time frame. I will be flying during the hottest
time here in California so I have to make it right quickly. Hopefully,
I make to OSH this year. Im looking forward to see a lot of you there.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337346#337346
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax |
Just gitterdun buddy - you're in for a treat! 6 yrs down the road and it s
till runs like a raped ape! No regrets except for getting the cooling
system to work but you have handled that nicely I believe.
Glen
n
> From: fklein@orcasonline.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax
> Date: Sun=2C 17 Apr 2011 18:49:06 -0700
>
>
> > The Jabiru will use a little over one gallon more per hour so it
> > will cost me $5.00 more an hour to operate.
>
> Rick=2C
>
> To anyone with or contemplating a Jab for their Europa=2C I can't think
> of a better resource than archived europa-list posts by John Lawton.
> As I recall=2C he's posted better performance figures than Bud mentions.
> John's been to Jabiru school and has a Rotax maintenance certification
> as well inasmuch as he regularly flys a motorglider w/ a Rotax in
> addition to his Jabbed Europa trigear.
>
> He's also very generous with his time to discus issues and his
> experiences w/ both engines...and quite satisfied w/ his Europa
> installation...I believe his engine has mechanical lifters. I was very
> interested in the Jab (with a fairly complete FWF kit) before the
> demise of Suncoast Aviation.
>
> As some of you know=2C I've proceeded to install a 140 hp MPEFI'd Sube
> variant I bought from RAM Performance Ltd which comes w/ a PSRU from
> N. Zealand=2C Airtex fuel pump=2C and a plug-n-play ECU. Cost was $16.5k
> USD. Spent almost a year designing and fabricating mounting frame=2C
> cooling & exhaust systems=2C cowls=2C remote oil filter/cooler and adding
> sensors for a compatible EMS. The proof will be in the pudding=2C but I
> hope to join Glenn Crowder who regularly flies his 125 hp carburated
> Sube powered Classic out of his home field at 5000' ASL in Colorado.
>
> Stay tuned=2C
>
> Fred
> A194
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 8
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Tony,
The Rotax can be kept quite simple as it is using Bing carbs and feeding
independent cylinders.
My recommendation for the Rotax is:
Two CHT on Cyl 1 and 3. Just to monitor the temp extremes of coolest
and warmest.
Oil Temp and Pressure using the VDO senders on the Rotax.
Two 2 EGT on the back two cylinders.
This helps determine if one carb is leaning or having problems vs
the other when troubleshooting the rough running engine. It is not
necessary and I don't have them on mine as you can hear and feel if the
engine is out of balance.
If you use round VDO or Mitchell gauges you do not need to buy new CHT,
or Oil and temp/pressure senders. They work fine using the Rotax
senders. To monitor EGT, just purchase the Westach clamp on probe for
the Rotax 912 or the bayonette type for the 914 since it has the bosses
welded in already...
If you install a Dynon or Grand Rapids or similar EFIS / Engine Monitor
system you must buy their probes for CHT and EGT .
Fuel pressure is a must for me as it an ammeter and voltmeter. If you
use a constant speed prop a manifold pressure gauge is essential.
My basic round dial setupfor the 914 is TACH, MAN PRESS, OIL T, OIL P,
CHT #3 cyl (one), FUEL PRESS, AMPS&VOLTS (one one gauge by Westach).
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Renshaw<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:12 PM
Graham and co,
I was thinking in terms if a 4 cylinder Rotax and
Realize your advice pertained to the 6 cylinder
Jabiru and to be able to monitor each cylinder.
(Buenos Aires to Sydney yesterday. Brain is about
Over International dateline, or the Pacific somewhere,
certainly not in my body.)
Reg
Tony Renshaw
On 18/04/2011, at 5:17 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>>
wrote:
Rick
there's a lot of good experience out there for you to benefit from.
(I don't have much)
I recommend a good engine monitor with 6 EGTs and 6 CHTs, Mixture
distribution is tricky and important.
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: AirEupora
<AirEupora@sbcglobal.net<mailto:AirEupora@sbcglobal.net>>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, 17 April, 2011 18:41:04
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax
<AirEupora@sbcglobal.net<mailto:AirEupora@sbcglobal.net>>
You are right Kevin. Trying to compare a Jabiru to a Rotax 912 or
914 is like comparing Apples and Oranges. Both taste good.
The Jabiru will use a little over one gallon more per hour so it
will cost me $5.00 more an hour to operate. If I get to fly 100 hour
this coming year it will cost me $500.00 dollars this year over your
cost for fuel. I can still divide that into the initial cost firewall
forward.
I looked on the web pages today and Rotax 912ULS is 21K plus the
cost of firewall forward vs. 18K for everything on the Jabiru.
Rick Stockton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337229#337======
==================<http://forums.matr
onics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337229#337============
============>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?E
urp; -->
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
=========
courier
new,courier"><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
=========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
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on>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
Now Graham,
You know it costs a lot to live in Washington and London. Those suits
don't come cheap.
We must all sacrifice for the greater good of the leaders. Just look at
all the good things they do.
Why there's...UH ...and UH, well there is something good they do,
otherwise we wouldn't put up with them.
Just a bit of sarcasm.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground.
Enjoy yourself Bud, at our age pleasure comes before duty! At mine it
does anyway!
Good luck to your son, he will need a lot of wisdom and survival
skills to pay off Ben Bernanke debts, unfortunately.
My son is busy paying off the British bankers debts. And their bonuses
dammitt!
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>>
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, 17 April, 2011 19:39:02
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground.
=EF=BB
Please don't overanalyze the Jab vs Rotax decision.
Kevin is right, it is apples and oranges.
Those of us near sea level, you are fine with a normally aspirated
engine.
For those flying out of 5000 foot MSL airstrips and climbing in and
out of mountains, you can't beat a turbo.
If you want super long range (ouch my bladder hurts) you need to look
at specific fuel consumption or cruise fuel flows.
My Europa trigear holds 20 US gallons useable (yea the new tank holds
a bit more) and at 4.5 gallons an hour, it exceeds my bladder capacity.
Geared vs direct drive is a mute point. They both work. Geared turns
the prop a bit slower, direct is a shorter prop. This is not a factor
for the Europa's prop limit of 64 inches. The Jab runs on AV gas, and
Aviation consumables and has a higher specific fuel consumption. The
Rotax can run on car gas without problems and is very economical at
cruise, and performs well at higher altitude... (It also gives neat
airshow departures.) Cooling is not an issue in my bird at all during
climb or takeoff. But there are those pesky hoses and the coolant
radiator to fool with in 5 years when I better change them.
I have found my early early 914 is not the engine of the new 914s.
The new Jabiru 3300 is not the same engine as the original solid lifter
engines. Kit manufacturers who saddled themselves with only one engine
choice have come up with carburetor, cowl and cooling changes which have
made their engines more user friendly for their aircraft. There are
some idiots flying with Celsius info in the EFIS and telling the
prospective buyer the engine is running super cool. Thankfully, no one
I know is doing that on purpose. Rest assured, any changes from the
primary engine recommended by the aircraft manufacturer will need some
tinkering.
Truth be known, I don't have time to tinker on my own plane anymore,
so I need a lazy mans fire wall forward for the trigear.
That is why I have a Rotax and an Airmaster Prop. To me it is just
easier to maintain and work on this combination. It is as close to
FADEC as I can get with my wallet. Climb and dive, winter or summer,
just smack the throttle around and it takes it. No oil leaks, shock
cooling, taxi cooling, or noisy prop noise requiring ANR headsets to
limit my flying. Although those pesky leaky tires required me to make
new wheel pants for easy filling since it sits a lot...
We are tinkering with the setup right now of the older model Jab and
Rotax in the shop. Tuning is an issue. When the storm damage is fixed,
we'll fly more and report back. Same with the Airmaster two blade vs
three. The setbacks we've had have slowed us down and removed labor and
financial assets, but we will press on.
Note: Keep your ear to the ground as the recent storm damage across
the US has left many aircraft owners with totaled aircraft, but they
still have engines, and sales may be on the horizon.
We have a new US owner. They are Mike and Erin DePeugh of Pekin Il.
Ken Gresham flew him in his Europa and he was hooked. I'll send some
pictures as soon as his plane and he arrives at the shop in May.
Have a great week. I am off to my son's graduation and will have my
first 4 day in a row break since 2006. Ed and Chris will run the shop
as I may not want to come back to work.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE
DURING TAXI
"ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>"
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>>
Not any more =C2=B4Bud I was lucky to be able to change it for a
Rotax 914!
Regards
Bob Harrison GPTAG
>----Original Message----
>From: budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>
>Date: 15/04/2011 22:48
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>>
>Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE
DURING TAXI
>
>I had thought I was the only one with sleepless nights.
>Bud
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag.dev@tisc
ali.co.uk%3Cmailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>>
> To:
europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-
list@matronics.com%3Cmailto:europa-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER
TEMPERATURE
DURING TAXI
>
>
"ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto<mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk%3Cmailto>:
ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>>"
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag<mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk%3Cmailt
o:ptag>.
dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:dev@tiscali.co.uk>>>
>
> Hi! Frans, Graham /all
> With comments about the Jabiru you are subjecting me to a
nightmare
> !!!!!!!!!!!! don't tempt me !
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G_PTAG
>
> >----Original Message----
> >From:
grahamsingleton@btinternet.com<mailto<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.c
om%3Cmailto>:
grahamsingleton@btinternet.com<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>>
> >Date: 15/04/2011 11:46
> >To:
<europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa
-list@matronics.com%3Cmailto:europa-list@matronics.com>>>
> >Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND
> NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI
>
> >
>
> >Frans
>
> >I think you are right, much more logical conclusions than mine
!:-
)
>
> >Agree about the Jabiru also, sad but geared and liquid cooled
will
> always have a
>
> >performance advantage. More complication too of course but a
more
> sensible
>
> >compromise I think.
>
> >regards
>
> >Graham
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >________________________________
>
> >From: Frans Veldman
<frans@privatepilots.nl<mailto<mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl%3Cmailto>:
frans@privatepilots.nl<mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl>>>
>
> >To:
europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-
list@matronics.com%3Cmailto:europa-list@matronics.com>>
>
> >Sent: Friday, 15 April, 2011 11:17:12
>
> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER
TEMPERATURE
> DURING
>
> >TAXI
>
> >
>
<frans@privatepilots<mailto:frans@privatepilots<mailto:frans@privatepilot
s%3Cmailto:frans@privatepilots>>.
> nl>
>
> >
>
> >On 04/15/2011 10:17 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> To a certain extent the same thing happens with Rotax so the
front
>
> >> cylinders get more fuel than the rear at some throttle
settings,
> drops
>
> >> of fuel don't turn corners the same as air molecules!
>
> >
>
> >I believe the "problem" with the Rotax is of a different nature.
> There
>
> >are two carbs, and the inlet pulses are not equally distributed.
Each
>
> >carb will see two inlet pulses in sequence, then followed by a
long
>
> >pause when the cylinders on the other side (fed by the other
carb)
> have
>
> >their respective inlet pulses.
>
> >After the pause, the flow of fuel inside the nozzles is stalled.
With
>
> >the first cylinder breathing, the fuel has to start moving
again,
and
>
> >the second cylinder has the benefit that the fuel is already up
to
>
> >speed. So the second cylinder in the sequence receives a
slightly
> richer
>
> >mixture.
>
> >A solution can be to use a bigger bore balance tube. Some
Italian
>
> >company is selling a pair of manifolds and balance tube for this
>
> >purpose, and the manifolds have already the bosses in them to
mount
> fuel
>
> >injectors for future upgrades (and using the carbs as fuelless
> throttle
>
> >bodies and backup in case the EFI fails).
>
> >
>
> >Ok,the subject was "Jabiru". To keep it in the subject: After
the
> long
>
> >list of problems and disadvantages, can anybody enlighten me
what
the
>
> >benefit is of the Jab over the Rotax? (I assume there must be
one,
> why
>
> >else would anyone bother to install one?)
>
> >
>
> >Frans=================
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/contributio
n<http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion>>
> Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=======<http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3Ehttp://w
ww.matronics.com/c=======>=========
http:/rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">htt===========
============
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
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on>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
I'd call it dry whit Bud! I sense a growing frustration though, the obscen
e gap =0Abetween the the top 1 % who ruined our economies and the middle 80
% who create =0Athe wealth they waste. The another spark from the fire alre
ady burning in the =0AArab world!=0ABetter stop, I can get boring !:-)=0AGr
aham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Bud Yerly <budy
erly@msn.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, 18 April, 201
1 16:29:46=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to th
e ground.=0A=0A=EF=BB =0ANow Graham,=0AYou know it costs a lot to live
in Washington and London. Those suits don't =0Acome cheap.=0AWe must all
sacrifice for the greater good of the leaders. Just look at all =0Athe go
od things they do. =0A=0AWhy there's...UH ...and UH, well there is somethi
ng good they do, otherwise we =0Awouldn't put up with them.=0A =0AJust a b
it of sarcasm.=0A =0ARegards,=0ABud=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From
: GRAHAM SINGLETON =0A>To: europa-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sunday, Apri
l 17, 2011 3:14 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep yo
ur ear to the ground.=0A>=0A>=0A>Enjoy yourself Bud, at our age pleasure
comes before duty! At mine it does =0A>anyway!=0A>Good luck to your son
, he will need a lot of wisdom and survival skills to =0A>pay off Ben Be
rnanke debts, unfortunately.=0A>My son is busy paying off the British ba
nkers debts. And their bonuses =0A>dammitt!=0A>Graham=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A________________________________=0A From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.co
m>=0A>To: europa-list@matronics.com=0A>Sent: Sunday, 17 April, 2011 19:3
9:02=0A>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the g
round.=0A>=0A>=EF=BB =0A>Please don't overanalyze the Jab vs Rotax deci
sion.=0A>Kevin is right, it is apples and oranges.=0A> =0A>Those of us near
sea level, you are fine with a normally aspirated engine.=0A>For those
flying out of 5000 foot MSL airstrips and climbing in and out of =0A>mou
ntains, you can't beat a turbo.=0A>If you want super long range (ouch my bl
adder hurts) you need to look at =0A>specific fuel consumption or cruise
fuel flows. =0A>=0A>My Europa trigear holds 20 US gallons useable (yea th
e new tank holds a bit =0A>more) and at 4.5 gallons an hour, it exceeds
my bladder capacity.=0A>Geared vs direct drive is a mute point. They bo
th work. Geared turns the =0A>prop a bit slower, direct is a shorter pr
op. This is not a factor for the =0A>Europa's prop limit of 64 inches.
The Jab runs on AV gas, and Aviation =0A>consumables and has a higher s
pecific fuel consumption. The Rotax can run on =0A>car gas without prob
lems and is very economical at cruise, and performs well =0A>at higher a
ltitude... (It also gives neat airshow departures.) Cooling is =0A>not
an issue in my bird at all during climb or takeoff. But there are thos
e =0A>pesky hoses and the coolant radiator to fool with in 5 years when
I better =0A>change them.=0A> =0A>I have found my early early 914 is not th
e engine of the new 914s. The new =0A>Jabiru 3300 is not the same engin
e as the original solid lifter engines. Kit =0A>manufacturers who saddl
ed themselves with only one engine choice have come up =0A>with carburet
or, cowl and cooling changes which have made their engines more =0A>user
friendly for their aircraft. There are some idiots flying with Celsius
=0A>info in the EFIS and telling the prospective buyer the engine is ru
nning =0A>super cool. Thankfully, no one I know is doing that on purpos
e. Rest =0A>assured, any changes from the primary engine recommended by
the aircraft =0A>manufacturer will need some tinkering.=0A> =0A>Truth b
e known, I don't have time to tinker on my own plane anymore, so I =0A>n
eed a lazy mans fire wall forward for the trigear.=0A>That is why I have a
Rotax and an Airmaster Prop. To me it is just easier to =0A>maintain an
d work on this combination. It is as close to FADEC as I can get =0A>wi
th my wallet. Climb and dive, winter or summer, just smack the throttle
=0A>around and it takes it. No oil leaks, shock cooling, taxi cooling,
or noisy =0A>prop noise requiring ANR headsets to limit my flying. Alt
hough those pesky =0A>leaky tires required me to make new wheel pants fo
r easy filling since it =0A>sits a lot...=0A> =0A>We are tinkering with the
setup right now of the older model Jab and Rotax in =0A>the shop. Tuni
ng is an issue. When the storm damage is fixed, we'll fly =0A>more and
report back. Same with the Airmaster two blade vs three. The =0A>setba
cks we've had have slowed us down and removed labor and financial =0A>as
sets, but we will press on.=0A> =0A>Note: Keep your ear to the ground as t
he recent storm damage across the US =0A>has left many aircraft owners w
ith totaled aircraft, but they still have =0A>engines, and sales may be
on the horizon.=0A> =0A>We have a new US owner. They are Mike and Erin DeP
eugh of Pekin Il. Ken =0A>Gresham flew him in his Europa and he was hook
ed. I'll send some pictures as =0A>soon as his plane and he arrives at
the shop in May.=0A> =0A>Have a great week. I am off to my son's graduatio
n and will have my first 4 =0A>day in a row break since 2006. Ed and Ch
ris will run the shop as I may not =0A>want to come back to work.=0A>
=0A>Regards,=0A>Bud=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>----- Original Message ----- =0A
>>From: ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk =0A>>To: europa-list@matronics.com =0A>>Sent
: Sunday, April 17, 2011 12:04 PM=0A>>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JA
BIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING =0A>>TAXI=0A>>=0A>>--> Eur
opa-List message posted by: "ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk" =0A>><ptag.dev@tiscali
.co.uk>=0A>>=0A>>Not any more =C2=B4Bud I was lucky to be able to chan
ge it for a Rotax =0A>914!=0A>>Regards=0A>>Bob Harrison GPTAG=0A>>=0A>
>>----Original Message----=0A>>>From: budyerly@msn.com=0A>>>Date:
15/04/2011 22:48 =0A>>>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>=0A>>>Subj: Re:
Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE =0A>>DURING TAXI
=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>>I had thought I was the only one with sleepless
nights.=0A>>=0A>>>Bud=0A>>=0A>>> ----- Original Message ----- =0A>>
=0A>>> From: ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> =0A>>
=0A>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com> =0A
>>=0A>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:51 AM=0A>>=0A>>> Subject: R
e: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE =0A>>DURING TAXI
=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> --> Europa-List message posted by:
"ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:=0A>>ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>" <ptag.dev
@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag.=0A>>dev@tiscali.co.uk>>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>>
Hi! Frans, Graham /all=0A>>=0A>>> With comments about the Jabiru you
are subjecting me to a =0A>>nightmare =0A>>=0A>>> !!!!!!!!!!!! don't
tempt me !=0A>>=0A>>> Regards=0A>>=0A>>> Bob Harrison G_PTAG=0A
>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >----Original Message----=0A>>=0A>>> >From: grah
amsingleton@btinternet.com<mailto:=0A>>grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>=0A>>
=0A>>> >Date: 15/04/2011 11:46 =0A>>=0A>>> >To: <europa-list@matroni
cs.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>>=0A>>=0A>>> >Subj: Re: Europ
a-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND =0A>>=0A>>> NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING
TAXI=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >Frans=0A>>=0A>
>>=0A>>=0A>>> >I think you are right, much more logical conclusions t
han mine =0A>!:-=0A>>)=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >Agree about the Jabiru
also, sad but geared and liquid cooled =0A>>will =0A>>=0A>>> always h
ave a =0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >performance advantage. More complication
too of course but a more =0A>>=0A>>> sensible =0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >c
ompromise I think.=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >regards=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>
>=0A>>> >Graham=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>>
>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A
>>> >________________________________=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >From:
Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl<mailto:=0A>>frans@privatepilots.n
l>>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europ
a-list@matronics.com>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >Sent: Friday, 15 April,
2011 11:17:12=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JA
BIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER =0A>>TEMPERATURE =0A>>=0A>>> DURING =0A>>=0A>>>
=0A>>=0A>>> >TAXI=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>>
ts<mailto:frans@privatepilots>.=0A>>=0A>>> nl>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>>
>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >On 04/15/2011 10:17 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON
wrote:=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >> To a cert
ain extent the same thing happens with Rotax so the =0A>>front=0A>>=0A>>>
=0A>>=0A>>> >> cylinders get more fuel than the rear at some throttle
=0A>>settings, =0A>>=0A>>> drops=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >> of fuel d
on't turn corners the same as air molecules!=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>>
>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >I believe the "problem" with the Rotax is
of a different nature. =0A>>=0A>>> There=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >are
two carbs, and the inlet pulses are not equally distributed. =0A>>Eac
h=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >carb will see two inlet pulses in sequence,
then followed by a =0A>>long=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >pause when the cylinde
rs on the other side (fed by the other =0A>>carb) =0A>>=0A>>> ha
ve=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >their respective inlet pulses.=0A>>=0A>>>
=0A>>=0A>>> >After the pause, the flow of fuel inside the nozzles is
stalled. =0A>>With=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >the first cylinder breathin
g, the fuel has to start moving again, =0A>>and=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >the
second cylinder has the benefit that the fuel is already up to=0A>>
=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >speed. So the second cylinder in the sequence rece
ives a slightly =0A>>=0A>>> richer=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >mixture.
=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >A solution can be to use a bigger bore balanc
e tube. Some Italian=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >company is selling a pair
of manifolds and balance tube for this=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >purpos
e, and the manifolds have already the bosses in them to =0A>>mount =0A
>>=0A>>> fuel=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >injectors for future upgrades (
and using the carbs as fuelless =0A>>=0A>>> throttle=0A>>=0A>>>
=0A>>=0A>>> >bodies and backup in case the EFI fails).=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>
>=0A>>> >=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >Ok,the subject was "Jabiru". To kee
p it in the subject: After the =0A>>=0A>>> long=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >li
st of problems and disadvantages, can anybody enlighten me what =0A>>t
he=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >benefit is of the Jab over the Rotax? (I as
sume there must be =0A>>one, =0A>>=0A>>> why=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >
else would anyone bother to install one?)=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >=0A>
>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> >Frans==============
=====0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> =0A>>>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Europa-List>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>> =0A>http://www.matronics.com/contrib
utionhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution>=0A>>=0A>>> Features Chat,
http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web =0A>>>title=http://forums.mat
ronics.com/ =0A>>>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m
atronics.com=0A>>_p; generous bsp;
=0A>>title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c======
============0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>http:/rel="
nofollow" target="_blank" =0A>href="http://forums.matronics.com">htt=
======================= =0A>:
//www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>
=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.ma
tronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A> hr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0A
============== =0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
Nothing boring about it, because if things stay pointed in the direction
they are, we soon won't have anything to fly.
It's brewing over here as well Graham. Some call it the Tea Party while
others just feel better saying it's conservative thinking but we are all
self responsibility types.
We are all getting rather tired of the few wanna tax & spend liberal
hollywood types getting into our pockets and running this country into
the ground. There is no difference between a dictator and a politician
if all the politicians come from the same current mold as each other.
Talk great to get elected that do the same dam thing.
It's time for a business man to run this country not a lawyer or career
politician. Perhaps it should be the same over there?
Anyone out there that agrees should go to www.fairtax.org
Unbelievable fix to a lot of things and they need all our help to get
thru.
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
On Apr 18, 2011, at 11:57 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
> I'd call it dry whit Bud! I sense a growing frustration though, the
obscene gap between the the top 1 % who ruined our economies and the
middle 80% who create the wealth they waste. The another spark from the
fire already burning in the Arab world!
> Better stop, I can get boring !:-)
> Graham
>
> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, 18 April, 2011 16:29:46
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground.
>
> =EF=BB
> Now Graham,
> You know it costs a lot to live in Washington and London. Those suits
don't come cheap.
> We must all sacrifice for the greater good of the leaders. Just look
at all the good things they do.
> Why there's...UH ...and UH, well there is something good they do,
otherwise we wouldn't put up with them.
>
> Just a bit of sarcasm.
>
> Regards,
> Bud
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: GRAHAM SINGLETON
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground.
>
> Enjoy yourself Bud, at our age pleasure comes before duty! At mine it
does anyway!
> Good luck to your son, he will need a lot of wisdom and survival
skills to pay off Ben Bernanke debts, unfortunately.
> My son is busy paying off the British bankers debts. And their bonuses
dammitt!
> Graham
>
>
> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, 17 April, 2011 19:39:02
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground.
>
> =EF=BB
> Please don't overanalyze the Jab vs Rotax decision.
> Kevin is right, it is apples and oranges.
>
> Those of us near sea level, you are fine with a normally aspirated
engine.
> For those flying out of 5000 foot MSL airstrips and climbing in and
out of mountains, you can't beat a turbo.
> If you want super long range (ouch my bladder hurts) you need to look
at specific fuel consumption or cruise fuel flows.
> My Europa trigear holds 20 US gallons useable (yea the new tank holds
a bit more) and at 4.5 gallons an hour, it exceeds my bladder capacity.
> Geared vs direct drive is a mute point. They both work. Geared turns
the prop a bit slower, direct is a shorter prop. This is not a factor
for the Europa's prop limit of 64 inches. The Jab runs on AV gas, and
Aviation consumables and has a higher specific fuel consumption. The
Rotax can run on car gas without problems and is very economical at
cruise, and performs well at higher altitude... (It also gives neat
airshow departures.) Cooling is not an issue in my bird at all during
climb or takeoff. But there are those pesky hoses and the coolant
radiator to fool with in 5 years when I better change them.
>
> I have found my early early 914 is not the engine of the new 914s.
The new Jabiru 3300 is not the same engine as the original solid lifter
engines. Kit manufacturers who saddled themselves with only one engine
choice have come up with carburetor, cowl and cooling changes which have
made their engines more user friendly for their aircraft. There are
some idiots flying with Celsius info in the EFIS and telling the
prospective buyer the engine is running super cool. Thankfully, no one
I know is doing that on purpose. Rest assured, any changes from the
primary engine recommended by the aircraft manufacturer will need some
tinkering.
>
> Truth be known, I don't have time to tinker on my own plane anymore,
so I need a lazy mans fire wall forward for the trigear.
> That is why I have a Rotax and an Airmaster Prop. To me it is just
easier to maintain and work on this combination. It is as close to
FADEC as I can get with my wallet. Climb and dive, winter or summer,
just smack the throttle around and it takes it. No oil leaks, shock
cooling, taxi cooling, or noisy prop noise requiring ANR headsets to
limit my flying. Although those pesky leaky tires required me to make
new wheel pants for easy filling since it sits a lot...
>
> We are tinkering with the setup right now of the older model Jab and
Rotax in the shop. Tuning is an issue. When the storm damage is fixed,
we'll fly more and report back. Same with the Airmaster two blade vs
three. The setbacks we've had have slowed us down and removed labor and
financial assets, but we will press on.
>
> Note: Keep your ear to the ground as the recent storm damage across
the US has left many aircraft owners with totaled aircraft, but they
still have engines, and sales may be on the horizon.
>
> We have a new US owner. They are Mike and Erin DePeugh of Pekin Il.
Ken Gresham flew him in his Europa and he was hooked. I'll send some
pictures as soon as his plane and he arrives at the shop in May.
>
> Have a great week. I am off to my son's graduation and will have my
first 4 day in a row break since 2006. Ed and Chris will run the shop
as I may not want to come back to work.
>
> Regards,
> Bud
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE
DURING TAXI
>
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Not any more =C2=B4Bud I was lucky to be able to change it for a Rotax
914!
> Regards
> Bob Harrison GPTAG
>
> >----Original Message----
> >From: budyerly@msn.com
> >Date: 15/04/2011 22:48
> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE
> DURING TAXI
>
> >
>
> >I had thought I was the only one with sleepless nights.
>
> >Bud
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > From: ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> > To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
>
> > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:51 AM
>
> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER
TEMPERATURE
> DURING TAXI
>
> >
>
> >
>
> ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk<mailto:ptag.
> dev@tiscali.co.uk>>
>
> >
>
> > Hi! Frans, Graham /all
>
> > With comments about the Jabiru you are subjecting me to a
> nightmare
>
> > !!!!!!!!!!!! don't tempt me !
>
> > Regards
>
> > Bob Harrison G_PTAG
>
> >
>
> > >----Original Message----
>
> > >From: grahamsingleton@btinternet.com<mailto:
> grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> > >Date: 15/04/2011 11:46
>
> > >To: <europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>>
>
> > >Subj: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND
>
> > NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >Frans
>
> >
>
> > >I think you are right, much more logical conclusions than mine !:-
> )
>
> >
>
> > >Agree about the Jabiru also, sad but geared and liquid cooled
> will
>
> > always have a
>
> >
>
> > >performance advantage. More complication too of course but a more
>
> > sensible
>
> >
>
> > >compromise I think.
>
> >
>
> > >regards
>
> >
>
> > >Graham
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >________________________________
>
> >
>
> > >From: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl<mailto:
> frans@privatepilots.nl>>
>
> >
>
> > >To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
>
> >
>
> > >Sent: Friday, 15 April, 2011 11:17:12
>
> >
>
> > >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER
> TEMPERATURE
>
> > DURING
>
> >
>
> > >TAXI
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> <frans@privatepilots<mailto:frans@privatepilots>.
>
> > nl>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >On 04/15/2011 10:17 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >> To a certain extent the same thing happens with Rotax so the
> front
>
> >
>
> > >> cylinders get more fuel than the rear at some throttle
> settings,
>
> > drops
>
> >
>
> > >> of fuel don't turn corners the same as air molecules!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >I believe the "problem" with the Rotax is of a different nature.
>
> > There
>
> >
>
> > >are two carbs, and the inlet pulses are not equally distributed.
> Each
>
> >
>
> > >carb will see two inlet pulses in sequence, then followed by a
> long
>
> >
>
> > >pause when the cylinders on the other side (fed by the other
> carb)
>
> > have
>
> >
>
> > >their respective inlet pulses.
>
> >
>
> > >After the pause, the flow of fuel inside the nozzles is stalled.
> With
>
> >
>
> > >the first cylinder breathing, the fuel has to start moving again,
> and
>
> >
>
> > >the second cylinder has the benefit that the fuel is already up to
>
> >
>
> > >speed. So the second cylinder in the sequence receives a slightly
>
> > richer
>
> >
>
> > >mixture.
>
> >
>
> > >A solution can be to use a bigger bore balance tube. Some Italian
>
> >
>
> > >company is selling a pair of manifolds and balance tube for this
>
> >
>
> > >purpose, and the manifolds have already the bosses in them to
> mount
>
> > fuel
>
> >
>
> > >injectors for future upgrades (and using the carbs as fuelless
>
> > throttle
>
> >
>
> > >bodies and backup in case the EFI fails).
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >Ok,the subject was "Jabiru". To keep it in the subject: After the
>
> > long
>
> >
>
> > >list of problems and disadvantages, can anybody enlighten me what
> the
>
> >
>
> > >benefit is of the Jab over the Rotax? (I assume there must be
> one,
>
> > why
>
> >
>
> > >else would anyone bother to install one?)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >Frans=================
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List>
>
> >
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> > Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contributionhref="http://www.matronics.
com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==========
======
>
>
>
> http:/rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">htt============
===========
>
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronh
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> http://www.matronics.com/con===============
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
On Apr 18, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Jeffrey Roberts wrote:
> We are all getting rather tired of the few wanna tax & spend liberal
> hollywood types getting into our pockets and running this country
> into the ground.
I'm always fascinated when someone takes it upon himself to speak on
behalf of "all" of us...and...it reveals to me just a hint of the
pitfalls we can land in when we go off-Europa-topic.
Fred
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
On Apr 18, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Jeffrey Roberts wrote:
' Nothing boring about it, because if things stay pointed in the direction
they are, we soon won't have anything to fly. '
Amen, I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with this. This kind of makes the topic valid
for us plane flyers, IMHO doesn't it? Granted, it can be rather sensitive to
some. I would be happy if Jeff spoke for almost every last one of us, so I
never will quite be, will I?
Not trying to offend, just trying to take back some of the liberties we lose
on a daily basis, every time those in the same mold meets! If 'we' don't
force ourselves to activate, others will, and have been, doing it for us.
Greg (taking my foot out of my mouth now)
You might be right though Fred, it might stir the pot up a bit?
Absolutely and for sure,
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground.
On Apr 18, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Jeffrey Roberts wrote:
> We are all getting rather tired of the few wanna tax & spend liberal
> hollywood types getting into our pockets and running this country into
> the ground.
I'm always fascinated when someone takes it upon himself to speak on
behalf of "all" of us...and...it reveals to me just a hint of the pitfalls
we can land in when we go off-Europa-topic.
Fred
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Classic fuel filler pipe |
I am still interesting in fitting one of these if there has been any progress or
you have the updated drawing.
Regards
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
Build nearing completion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337405#337405
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: place for venturi -in air duct? |
well, in spite of the collective wisdom, I already had all the bits tubed up and
installed so I may as well give it a go with the venturi. I tried it in the
car and it seems to work ok and the drag doesnt seem so great at 70mph. If I keep
changing the baseline I'll never get to fly it.
The whole caboodle is 3Kg DI & AH.
The more I think about modern electronics TV, computer, mobile, camera, printer,
GPs etc it all goes in the obsolete draw after a couple of years.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
Build nearing completion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337407#337407
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
Do not archive.
In deference to recent posts, a further off forum topic-line comment.
We are and will experience significant economic fallout ahead and this will have
significant effect on our building and flying indulgence. There is significant
and increasing "pressure behind the dam" toward world economic crises.
In the US we must realize it is ultimately our own, the voters, fault and probably
won't get much better until enough of the "voting masses" understand enough
(very large order) to force appropriate change...as opposed to allowing "band
aid fixes", "kicking the can down the road" and favorable gifts to those corporations
who made very bad business and investment decisions. There is no salvation
in the Rep or Dem party in the US, neither will make the hard decisions.
Though some difference between them, both are wholly responsible for the state
we are in. Certainly time to re-evaluate the agenda and priorities within our
two party political system.
Gov debt, how easily the word TRILLION rolls off the tongue in just a few years.
Wall Street Banks, the FED, large corporations and politicians are all in bed
together. We supposedly have separation of State and religion, how about separation
of State and corporation, separation of State and bank. We have corporations,
particularly banks, which were too big to fail...but they are now dangerously
bigger thanks to Gov/Fed fixes and bailouts. "Toxic debt" from the last
crisis is still within the system (corporations, banks and FED) though hidden
with creative accounting practices, this with the blessing of Gov regulatory
agencies. If they were required to "mark to the market" many would be insolvent.
An apt line I heard, "Gov should have a debit card, not a credit card". Why isn't
it questioned when the Gov/Central Bank process, first creates the debt, then
creates the money (currently called Qualitative Easing) to fund the debt. Gold's,
and more recently, silver's assent against all fiat currencies, is the
result of the money printing "solution" which all these Gov and central banks
practice. The "system" continues to attempt to engineer the economy and by observation
is not doing very well. What would we have in the US if we didn't have
our main growth industry, Government. The size of each economic crisis grows
with the commensurate growth in debt, leverage, economy engineering and money
printing. Should we just stop and accept the explanation that each crisis is
a temporary liquidity problem. What created the liquidity problem? The Gov/Central
Bank system creates the excesses which precipitates the liquidity crisis
and then the solution is even more of the excesses. If there wasn't "too much"
debt, leverage and money printing could there be much of a liquidity problem.
We must have each heard the analogy of solving an alcohol addiction with increasing
doses of alcohol. It's becoming more and more apparent that the outcome
will not be good.
OK, back to my build, getting close
Bill McClellan
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
On Apr 18, 2011, at 12:26 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote:
>
> You might be right though Fred, it might stir the pot up a bit?
>
> Absolutely and for sure,
Greg...all I ask is for words to be chosen carefully...words have power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
If I'm sensitive, I'm particularly sensitive when someone purports to
speak on my behalf uninvited by using a presumed, collective
"we"...think about it...I say there's much more power when one speaks
his truth and implicitly allows for others to have their own.
Fred
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
Very well said
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 2:56 PM, William McClellan
<wilwood@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Do not archive.
>
> In deference to recent posts, a further off forum topic-line comment.
> We are and will experience significant economic fallout ahead and this will have
significant effect on our building and flying indulgence. There is significant
and increasing "pressure behind the dam" toward world economic crises.
>
> In the US we must realize it is ultimately our own, the voters, fault and probably
won't get much better until enough of the "voting masses" understand enough
(very large order) to force appropriate change...as opposed to allowing "band
aid fixes", "kicking the can down the road" and favorable gifts to those corporations
who made very bad business and investment decisions. There is no salvation
in the Rep or Dem party in the US, neither will make the hard decisions.
Though some difference between them, both are wholly responsible for the state
we are in. Certainly time to re-evaluate the agenda and priorities within
our two party political system.
>
> Gov debt, how easily the word TRILLION rolls off the tongue in just a few years.
Wall Street Banks, the FED, large corporations and politicians are all in
bed together. We supposedly have separation of State and religion, how about separation
of State and corporation, separation of State and bank. We have corporations,
particularly banks, which were too big to fail...but they are now dangerously
bigger thanks to Gov/Fed fixes and bailouts. "Toxic debt" from the last
crisis is still within the system (corporations, banks and FED) though hidden
with creative accounting practices, this with the blessing of Gov regulatory
agencies. If they were required to "mark to the market" many would be insolvent.
>
> An apt line I heard, "Gov should have a debit card, not a credit card". Why isn't
it questioned when the Gov/Central Bank process, first creates the debt,
then creates the money (currently called Qualitative Easing) to fund the debt.
Gold's, and more recently, silver's assent against all fiat currencies, is the
result of the money printing "solution" which all these Gov and central banks
practice. The "system" continues to attempt to engineer the economy and by observation
is not doing very well. What would we have in the US if we didn't have
our main growth industry, Government. The size of each economic crisis grows
with the commensurate growth in debt, leverage, economy engineering and money
printing. Should we just stop and accept the explanation that each crisis is
a temporary liquidity problem. What created the liquidity problem? The Gov/Central
Bank system creates the excesses which precipitates the liquidity crisis
and then the solution is even more of the excesses.!
> If there wasn't "too much" debt, leverage and money printing could there be
much of a liquidity problem. We must have each heard the analogy of solving an
alcohol addiction with increasing doses of alcohol. It's becoming more and more
apparent that the outcome will not be good.
>
> OK, back to my build, getting close
> Bill McClellan
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
Fred,
I really appreciate your sensitivities, and I agree with the your statements
on speaking ones own truth, and allowing others to speak theirs..
Your communication may be better than mine (and you may have had a bad
instance, which made you particularily sensitive to someone speaking for
you....am I being too touchy-feely?). I used to get upset when people said
'it happens all the time', or 'it will never be', or 'it is everywhere, or
'everyone thinks it'...........then I caught myself doing it too. I guess I
am not perfect, either.
I cannot expect anyone to be more perfect than I, and I know I fail in my
own standards all the time. I guess I heard the statement differently. The
'we' implies a particular group of people, not 'all' of us.
I suppose in a way, it makes me blind to some words, but it also protects me
from getting upset all the time...but as you can see in your (truly moving)
video, words do have power.
BEST Regards, and have a great afternoon, and forgive me in writing from a
completely imperfect state, (this statement is NOT tongue in cheek, just
simply truthful)
Greg
and of course...
do not archive
(just in case the other one doesn't take)
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground.
On Apr 18, 2011, at 12:2 6 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote:
You might be right though Fred, it might stir the pot up a bit?
Absolutely and for sure,
Greg...all I ask is for words to be chosen carefully...words have power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU&feature=youtube_gdata_player>
&feature=youtube_gdata_player
If I'm sensitive, I'm particularly sensitive when someone purports to speak
on my behalf uninvited by using a presumed, collective "we"...think about
it...I say there's much more power when one speaks his truth and implicitly
allows for others to have their own.
Fred
do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
Fred=0Athat's the trouble with words, they cannot be unsaid. And if one say
w something =0Aunforgiveable one won't be forgiven.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________=0AFrom: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com
>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, 18 April, 2011 22:03:23
=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground.
=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Apr 18, 2011, at 12:26 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote:=0A=0A=0A>You mi
ght be right though Fred, it might stir the pot up a bit? =0A>=0A>Absolutel
y and for sure,=0A>=0A=0AGreg...all I ask is for words to be chosen careful
ly...words have power.=0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU&fe
ature=youtube_gdata_player=0A=0AIf I'm sensitive, I'm particularly sensit
ive when someone purports to speak on =0Amy behalf uninvited by using a pre
sumed, collective "we"...think about it...I =0Asay there's much more power
when one speaks his truth and implicitly allows for =0Aothers to have their
= =0A
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
Bill you are absolutely right.=0AQE is ;legalized forgery, borrowing money
from our grandchildren. And it makes =0Athe lawer that sanctioned it into a
criminal . (imho fo course)=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________
_________=0AFrom: William McClellan <wilwood@earthlink.net>=0ATo: "Europa-L
ist@matronics.com" <Europa-List@matronics.com>=0ASent: Monday, 18 April, 20
11 21:56:24=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to th
d@earthlink.net>=0A=0A=0AAn apt line I heard, "Gov should have a debit card
, not a credit card". Why =0Aisn't it questioned when the Gov/Central Bank
process, first creates the debt, =0Athen creates the money (currently calle
d Qualitative Easing) to fund the debt. =0AGold's, and more recently, silve
r's assent against all fiat currencies, is the =0Aresult of the money print
ing "solution" which all these Gov and central banks =0Apractice. The "syst
em" continues to attempt to engineer the economy and by =0Aobservation is n
ot doing very well. What would we have in the US if we didn't =0Ahave our m
ain growth industry, Government. The size of each economic crisis =0Agrows
with the commensurate growth in debt, leverage, economy engineering and =0A
money printing. Should we just stop and accept the explanation that each cr
isis =0Ais a temporary liquidity problem. What created the liquidity proble
m? The =0AGov/Central Bank system creates the excesses which precipitates
the liquidity =0Acrisis and then the solution is even more of the excesses.
!=0A If there wasn't "too much" debt, leverage and money printing could t
here be =0Amuch of a liquidity problem. We must have each heard the analogy
of solving an =0Aalcohol addiction with increasing doses of alcohol. It's
becoming more and more =0Aapparent that the outcome will not be good.=0A=0A
=========
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
Jeff=0Awasn't it the ShruB created the biggest deficit in history and start
ed all this =0AQE, ? =0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________
_________=0AFrom: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>=0ATo: europa-list@mat
ronics.com=0ASent: Monday, 18 April, 2011 19:22:05=0ASubject: Re: Europa-Li
st: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground.=0A=0A--> Europa-List mess
age posted by: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>=0A=0A=0AOn Apr 18, 2011,
at 10:37 AM, Jeffrey Roberts wrote:=0A=0A> We are all getting rather tired
of the few wanna tax & spend liberal hollywood =0A>types getting into our
pockets and running this country into the ground.=0A=0A I'm always fasci
nated when someone takes it upon himself to speak on behalf =0Aof "all" of
us...and...it reveals to me just a hint of the pitfalls we can land =0Ain w
============
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax |
Can't argue with your logic Frans. You are right again.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Frans Veldman <frans@priv
atepilots.nl>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, 18 April, 201
1 14:53:24=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax=0A=0A--> Europa
-List message posted by: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>=0A=0AOn 04/
AirEupora" <AirEupora@sbcglobal.net>=0A> =0A> You are right Kevin. Trying
to compare a Jabiru to a Rotax 912 or 914 is like =0A>comparing Apples and
Oranges. Both taste good. =0A>=0A=0AHas the Jab a turbo?=0A=0A> The Jabir
u will use a little over one gallon more per hour so it will cost me =0A>$5
.00 more an hour to operate.=0A=0AMake it two gallon per hour. That's 10 do
llar per hour. And not to=0Amention that with a turbo you will be able to f
ly higher and benefit=0Afrom a higher true airspeed, further reducing the f
uel required for a trip.=0A=0ALower fuel consumption means not only cheaper
in operations, but also=0Athe ability to fly longer legs without refueling
, or just a saving in=0Afuel weight if you just fill her up for a certain t
ime of flying.=0A=0A> If I get to fly 100 hour this coming year it will co
st me $500.00 dollars this =0A>year over your cost for fuel.=0A=0AThat's re
ally short term calculating. Let's say the airplane plus its=0Aengine will
see a service life of 1500 hours. Then the jab has consumed=0A$15000 more t
han the Rotax (ignoring the fact that the fuel prices will=0Ago up). Indeed
over the service life of the airplane even a 914 with=0Aturbo is cheaper t
han a jab. Not to mention the selling price which is=0Aclearly higher for a
914 than for a jabiru, if you ever choose to sell=0Ayour airplane.=0A=0ATh
at was about money. Now think about performance. Or maybe you plan to=0Afly
only close to the sea level and the higher altitude performance=0Ahasn't a
significant meaning to you.=0A=0AYou liked to compare against a 914. A 912
is significantly more=0Aaffordable and consumes about the same amount of f
uel as a 914. With a=0A912 you actually gain a lot of money over the servic
e life compared to a=0AJabiru.=0A=0AJust some thoughts. (I don't care what
you install in your airplane, but=0AI hope you are seeing the whole picture
. It would be a shame if the=0Aproject you invested so much of your time in
is going to disappoint to.=0AApparently quite some people got very frustra
ted with their Jabiru, and=0Asome even converted to a Rotax 914 and wasted
the money of their Jab.=0ANow let's do the calculation again...)=0A=0AFrans
=================
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru vs. Rotax |
" Hopefully, I make to OSH this year. I?Tm looking forward to see a lot
of you there."
I hope to make it to OSH this year too... Hope to see you there with your
new plane!
Kevin
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
Graham,
The deficit increased considerably under Bush for the years 2003 - 2005 with the
2004 deficit reaching a record (at the time) $462.56 billion. The previous
record being $438.5 billion in 1992. By 2006 it had almost been cut in half from
the 2004 deficit and in 2007 it was down to a "mere" $165.24 billion. BHO's
first year was a mind boggling $1,416 billion followed by $1,294 billion and
for 2011 $1,650 billion.
Those are inflation adjusted numbers to 2011. If you looked at the non-inflation
adjusted dollar amounts, the Bush years don't really look as bad.
What made Bush look bad was the fact he came in with a two year budget surplus
and held a budget surplus through 2001. He had been expected to be more fiscally
conservative than he turned out to be. The result of his unpopular spending
was the abandonment of the Republican Party by the Conservative base in 2008
(they stayed home in droves on election day). So the Socialists won and we
got BHO, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid & Co. and $4,360 billion debt generated in 3
years. Makes "ShruB," as you derisively put it, look downright thrifty.
Bob Borger
On Apr 18, 2011, at 17:53, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
> Jeff
> wasn't it the ShruB created the biggest deficit in history and started all this
QE, ?
> Graham
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground. |
Gram,
Yes indeed it was the MR. Bush. In my opinion he was the worst until
this one but in a somewhat different way. This one is really good at
saying one thing then doing something else. Some seem to defend todays
leadership by comparing it as better than Bush. They both have placed us
on a collision course to what happened in Greece. Only this President
seems to be speeding up the process.
Oh and Fred you have my apologizes. I was truly not trying to offend. I
indeed should have said I and not we or us. I'm just really ticked off
at whats happened in the last 10 years here. My only son is in the
mountains of Afghanistan in the middle of a one year Army deployment.
Needless to say we are very proud of him but scared to death. When I
turn on the morning news I hear more about the royal wedding than what
our young people are trying to accomplish and the sacrifices they and
their families are making. I wonder if we would be trying to fight a
polite political war if the idiots in Washington had their own sons
fighting on the ground. Hell these poor soldiers can't even engage the
enemy without pre approval. Needless to say politics are not one of my
favorite subjects right now.
I will ask anyone that will, to take a few minutes and say a prayer for
our soldiers.
I'm going to quit now as this forum needs to get back to solutions for
the builder & flyers of our great Europa... which BTW I'm having a few
but that can wait.
Regards,
Jeff N128LJ Gold Rush
On Apr 18, 2011, at 5:53 PM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
> Jeff
> wasn't it the ShruB created the biggest deficit in history and started
all this QE, ?
> Graham
>
>
> From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, 18 April, 2011 19:22:05
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: JABIRU etc. Keep your ear to the ground.
>
>
>
> On Apr 18, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Jeffrey Roberts wrote:
>
> > We are all getting rather tired of the few wanna tax & spend liberal
hollywood types getting into our pockets and running this country into
the ground.
>
> I'm always fascinated when someone takes it upon himself to speak
on behalf of "all" of us...and...it reveals to me just a hint of the
pitfalls we can land in when we go off-Europa-topic.
>
> F href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"
target="_blank">p; -Matt Dralle, Libution" =====
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Classic fuel filler pipe |
Same here, also interested in an aluminium fuel filler pipe for my Classic.
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 16:26, graeme bird <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I am still interesting in fitting one of these if there has been any
> progress or you have the updated drawing.
> Regards
>
> --------
> Graeme Bird
> G-UMPY
> Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
> Build nearing completion
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337405#337405
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | The demise of AvGas |
I've heard that the availability is soon to be at risk here in the States.
The editor of Kitplanes magazine has proposed 100 octane unleaded for all
motor use.
Better fuel means higher compression in autos etc. and, i think, removes the
need for seasonal blends of mogas, which is purportedly half the cost of
production.
This would power most? certified piston with nominal changes.
We should do it now before our Dear Leader prices AvGas out of existence
because we are burning lead over an aquifer or some such thing.
Imho, 16th amendment is a commie plot to wage class warfare and was never
genuinely ratified.
"The law that never was" is a book from the eighties with proof.
The 17th amendment was also a bad idea. the 18th amen ... never mind, we
fixed that one.
Then there's the women's vote ... it's fine, just kidding.
I must go now and pay tribute to the Dear Leader, Barry the Marxist.
Nic, a145 cbr1000 - 140 bhp@8000rpm
do not archive, for I am but a dreamer
Go Fairtax !!!
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: The demise of AvGas |
On 04/19/2011 07:44 AM, scouttwo wrote:
>
> I've heard that the availability is soon to be at risk here in the States.
You bet it is. (For this reason alone I would never invest in an engine
designed to run on AvGas.)
> The editor of Kitplanes magazine has proposed 100 octane unleaded for
> all motor use.
Skip this step; go straight to Diesel or propane. Talking about "higher
compression". In Europe octane 98 was once popular, but most gas engines
run on octane 95 these days. Here in the Netherlands about 1/3th of the
gas cars has been converted to run on propane (LPG), which has a natural
octane rating of 104, and is the cleanest fuel available. Another third
of the cars run on Diesel, allowing compression rates in the 20's. Now
we are talking about "higher compression". ;-)
> We should do it now before our Dear Leader prices AvGas out of existence
> because we are burning lead over an aquifer or some such thing.
There is indeed something unethical about spraying toxic lead over
someone else's property just for your own fun. Lead is banned for cars
for a good reason... so why selectively give some people the right to
use gas with a high lead content?
I would welcome a ban on AvGas. It will expedite the development of more
modern gas- and Diesel engines for aviation use.
Frans
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