Europa-List Digest Archive

Wed 04/27/11


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:00 AM - Re: Spraying questions (David Joyce)
     2. 01:33 AM - Re: Spraying questions (graeme bird)
     3. 01:50 AM - Re: Warp Drive blades (Carlton Pattinson)
     4. 12:57 PM - Build a Plane Project (David Joyce)
     5. 01:50 PM - Re: Spraying questions (Christoph Both)
     6. 02:23 PM - Re: Warp Drive blades (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     7. 02:44 PM - Re: Spraying questions (neveyre@aol.co.uk)
     8. 05:28 PM - Prop Balance (Jeffrey Roberts)
     9. 07:04 PM - Re: Prop Balance (Jerry Rehn)
    10. 11:11 PM - Re: Prop Balance (neveyre@aol.co.uk)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:00:38 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Spraying questions
    Graeme, Not wanting to sound discouraging, but I think spraying is the one thing in the whole build that is worth getting a professional to do. It is so easy to make a poor job of it on first attempt, and so obvious thereafter, and so difficult to put straight if you don't get it quite right! But if you are intent on doing it I would suggest doing a complete job on say one tailplane first so that you can be happy with your technique before going on. I am sure others who know more about it will give you more specific advice, but my one tip would be to be meticulous to the point of paranoia in preparing the surface to absolute smoothness and mattness (ie none of the original shine of the moulded bits must remain) Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:07 PM Subject: Europa-List: Spraying questions > > I am preparing to spraying the top coats (underside of elevators, then > wings first!) and have a couple of simple questions I am using 2K acrylic > Octoral PF131 high build primer and Dellfleet 350 top coat: > > a) how to spray large areas like wings - whether better to work in squares > or walk down the wing each time? My paint says cross coats and I am using > the slow thinner. > > b) do I need to let the primer dry ie 24 hours or is it better to spray > sooner and get a better bond. I would guess dry would be best and fine > sand off any tiny blemmishes. > > Thanks > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP > Build nearing completion > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338146#338146 > > >


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:33:50 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Spraying questions
    From: "graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
    Thanks David, yep its scary, I have started with the undersides of the tailplane and have already sprayed the Smoothprime and high build primer, The HVLP and modern paints are supposed to be less troublesome to use. Also, unlike polyuethanes, I understand Acrylic can be reworked more easily and are less hazardous. Graeme -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Build nearing completion Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338185#338185


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:50:08 AM PST US
    From: Carlton Pattinson <member@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Warp Drive blades
    Hi Graham, I have a set which were damaged in a groundloop 5 years ago. One is OK but other two have damage at the tips - the worst is delaminated for about 6 inches from tip but could be repaired. Let me know if you are interested. Regards Carl ======================================= Message Received: Apr 27 2011, 12:20 AM From: "GRAHAM SINGLETON" Cc: Subject: Europa-List: Warp Drive blades Has anyone got any damaged but visibly acceptable blades? G-YURO is on display in the Yorkshire Air Museum at Easingwold airfield but has a cardboard replica of a prop installed which looks rather unconvincing at the moment. It would be nice if we could find some scrap blades that could be fitted. I have a set of slightly bent castings which I will donate, all we need now is three blades. Graham


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:57:25 PM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Build a Plane Project
    The Europa community have come up absolute trumps in providing both a radio and a pair of old headsets for this local school project which is nearing completion. See www.raes.org.uk/cmspage.asp?cmsitemid=Careers_BuildAPlane I should have thought at the time but the system will not work properly without an intercom. Does anyone by any chance have an old but working intercom which they have replaced with something shinier, and which they are prepared to donate or part with for a modest sum, to this worthy school project. The kit came with a full set of instruments apart from any sort of coms, so I promise that this is my last begging email! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:50:08 PM PST US
    From: Christoph Both <christoph.both@acadiau.ca>
    Subject: Spraying questions
    Hello, Having just completed the arduous procedure of a CLASSIC I concur with David: Save yourself a whack of money by doing the filling and contouring at your own shop. But then, leave the final priming/painting to the professionals. It does take many years to get really good at it. A painter intimately knows the paint, primers and fillers while spraying them on, while adjusting immediately for the daily changes of flow caused by changing humidity, temperature, etc. Having spent several weeks in a professional paint shop, finalizing filling and sanding I can attest that without precautions taken, spray painting/priming is a risky business for health, no matter what the labels say. It took me many hours to fill and sand to ready-paint state, which included sanding stages after filling, Smooth Priming, Epoxy Priming. Lots of work but look at the money you save: at $50 shop hours I was quoted close to $10,000 to have this done. Doing all the preparations myself, and sanding in between to paint ready state, the paining process took them only 10 hours to complete which I very happily paid the shop their professional rate for, plus the material. YES, I was wearing a mask during the entire process. What worked for me was to do all the required work at home/shop myself: filling (Aeropoxy Light filler), followed by filling larger pinholes with quick setting putty (takes only one hour per side). Then Smooth Prime to fill all the small pin holes (rolling on is MUCH more economical than spraying as it "massages" the stuff in, effectively filling almost all pin holes - that stuff is amazing). I needed only 3 rolled on coats to fill the pinholes (not 6 as prescribed) and then sanded back. Everything cleans up with water, but wear a mask. I found including the cross-linker makes for better adhesion, no matter what they tell you now. Make sure you wait a week until that stuff completely dries - it sands easily. The BEST sanding tools I found were the DURA BLOCKS marketed in the US - I wasted much valuable time initially messing around with the EUROPA prescribed sanding blocks. DURA BLOCKS work amazingly and produce much more precise results with much less scratching the surface. I used an 12, 18 and 24 inch size polus a small soft block for the fine sanding and contours (yes, I built the wing fairings myself).The painter then applied an epoxy primer followed by a surface filler which I sanded back to 320 and then to 500grit in preparation for painting which took only a few hours. Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 4:57 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spraying questions Graeme, Not wanting to sound discouraging, but I think spraying is the one thing in the whole build that is worth getting a professional to do. It is so easy to make a poor job of it on first attempt, and so obvious thereafter, and so difficult to put straight if you don't get it quite right! But if you are intent on doing it I would suggest doing a complete job on say one tailplane first so that you can be happy with your technique before going on. I am sure others who know more about it will give you more specific advice, but my one tip would be to be meticulous to the point of paranoia in preparing the surface to absolute smoothness and mattness (ie none of the original shine of the moulded bits must remain) Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:07 PM Subject: Europa-List: Spraying questions > > I am preparing to spraying the top coats (underside of elevators, then > wings first!) and have a couple of simple questions I am using 2K acrylic > Octoral PF131 high build primer and Dellfleet 350 top coat: > > a) how to spray large areas like wings - whether better to work in squares > or walk down the wing each time? My paint says cross coats and I am using > the slow thinner. > > b) do I need to let the primer dry ie 24 hours or is it better to spray > sooner and get a better bond. I would guess dry would be best and fine > sand off any tiny blemmishes. > > Thanks > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP > Build nearing completion > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338146#338146 > > >


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:23:44 PM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Warp Drive blades
    Carl=0ASounds ideal, can we have them please. I will contact you shortly to arrange =0Acollection=0AGraham.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________ __________=0AFrom: Carlton Pattinson <member@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, 27 April, 2011 9:47:26=0ASubje ct: RE: Europa-List: Warp Drive blades=0A=0AHi Graham,=0A=0AI have a set wh ich were damaged in a groundloop 5 years ago. One is OK but other =0Atwo ha ve damage at the tips - the worst is delaminated for about 6 inches from =0Atip but could be repaired.=0A=0ALet me know if you are interested.=0A=0A Regards=0ACarl=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A============== ==0A>Message Received: Apr 27 2011, 12:20 AM=0A>From: "GRAHAM SINGLETON" =0A>To: europa-list@matronics.com=0A>Cc: =0A>Subject: Europa-List: Warp Dri ve blades=0A>=0A>=0A>Has anyone got any damaged but visibly acceptable blad es? G-YURO is on display =0A>in the Yorkshire Air Museum at Easingwold airf ield but has a cardboard replica =0A>of a prop installed which looks rather unconvincing at the moment. It would be =0A>nice if we could find some scr ap blades that could be fitted. I have a set of =0A>slightly bent castings which I will donate, all we need now is three blades.=0A>Graham=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa> =0A>http://www.matronics= ============ =0A


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:44:57 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Spraying questions
    From: neveyre@aol.co.uk
    Hi Graeme, Sorry to pee on your parade [ mixed metaphors ?] but the paint you are usei ng will not have enough ultraviolet block in it [ despite what the sales gu y will tell you]. It will only have enough to stop the pigment fading, offering no protection to the substrate [ epoxy] The clue is in the recommended / approved paint system paint code, UVR . Normal auto paints have no more than 5 or 6% protection at best, I am not f amilar with the paint you list, I guess it is a Transport vehicle product, which may have even less ? The UVR specs' claim something like 97%. In the back of the ''Blue Book'' there is a question.... '' has an alternat ive paint been used '' for a very good reason. You may be able to find a carbon black primer [ as Rutan specified before t he advent of hi UV block topcoats] that can go over the high build to keep the UV out [Graham Singleton will know about that]. The ''proper paint'' is not twice the price because the manufacturers want twice the profit, it is because it is four times the quality,which costs... . it will still be shiney in 15 years time, truck paint will be flat / chal king in 5, tops....... Nev. -----Original Message----- From: graeme bird <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk> Sent: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:10 Subject: Europa-List: Spraying questions I am preparing to spraying the top coats (underside of elevators, then wing s irst!) and have a couple of simple questions I am using 2K acrylic Octoral F131 high build primer and Dellfleet 350 top coat: a) how to spray large areas like wings - whether better to work in squares or alk down the wing each time? My paint says cross coats and I am using the s low hinner. b) do I need to let the primer dry ie 24 hours or is it better to spray soo ner nd get a better bond. I would guess dry would be best and fine sand off any iny blemmishes. Thanks -------- raeme Bird -UMPY ono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP uild nearing completion ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338146#338146 -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:28:00 PM PST US
    From: Jeffrey Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
    Subject: Prop Balance
    HI All, I'm going back to my original warp drive 3 blade prop in hopes of it being smother running. As well I need to go back to the original fiberglass spinner and backplate. I have a fellow willing to fly here to do a harmonic balance of the prop but has shown concern of attaching the needed weights to the fiberglass back plat / spinner. Just curious to what others have done and how they have attached any weights needed. Thanks in advance, Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush P.S. Lets not forget the Rough River fly-in this years is on Labor Day weekend. It could be time to get fired up again.


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:04:20 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Prop Balance
    From: Jerry Rehn <rehn@rockisland.com>
    Jeff I had mine balanced and the weight was attached to the back plate, seemed routine to me. I can take a photo for you if you like. My spinner is aluminum, seems I heard they where preferred for some reason? Might check that out as well. Jerry Mono 914 Sent from my iPad On Apr 27, 2011, at 5:23 PM, Jeffrey Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net> wrote: > > HI All, > I'm going back to my original warp drive 3 blade prop in hopes of it being smother running. As well I need to go back to the original fiberglass spinner and backplate. I have a fellow willing to fly here to do a harmonic balance of the prop but has shown concern of attaching the needed weights to the fiberglass back plat / spinner. Just curious to what others have done and how they have attached any weights needed. > E > Thanks in advance, > > Jeff R. > > N128LJ Gold Rush > > > P.S. Lets not forget the Rough River fly-in this years is on Labor Day weekend. It could be time to get fired up again. > > > > > >


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:11:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Prop Balance
    From: neveyre@aol.co.uk
    Hi Jeff, AN970 washers with AN3 bolts as needed, in the rear face of the backplate. Ident the backplate, prop and spinner so it goes back on in the same place if you take it off anytime. Cheers, Nev. -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net> Sent: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 1:28 Subject: Europa-List: Prop Balance HI All, 'm going back to my original warp drive 3 blade prop in hopes of it being mother running. As well I need to go back to the original fiberglass spinne r nd backplate. I have a fellow willing to fly here to do a harmonic balance of he prop but has shown concern of attaching the needed weights to the fiberg lass ack plat / spinner. Just curious to what others have done and how they have ttached any weights needed. hanks in advance, Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush .S. Lets not forget the Rough River fly-in this years is on Labor Day weeke nd. t could be time to get fired up again. -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   europa-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list
  • Browse Europa-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --