Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:34 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (Frans Veldman)
2. 10:26 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (rparigoris)
3. 11:04 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (G-IANI)
4. 11:34 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (Karl Heindl)
5. 11:44 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (Karl Heindl)
6. 11:53 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (Jan de Jong)
7. 03:10 PM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
8. 11:04 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
9. 11:05 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
10. 11:28 PM - Re: slow gettaway (Steven Pitt)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 |
On 04/30/2011 03:35 AM, Tony Renshaw wrote:
> I have
> only 1 Floscan 201B, and they aint cheap, plus I don't have the said
> device yet either. If Matts is the best, well problem solved, but I
> am wondering if there is a workaround,
The 914 has a constant fuel flow. What the engine doesn't use is flowing
back to the tank. The forward fuel flow will be around 120 liters per
hour, regardless of power setting.
(You might wonder whether you can then instead only measure the return
flow, as this is engine power related. Problem here is that the forward
fuel flow is not constant but depends a bit on voltage for the electric
pump, the resistance of the fuel filter (changing over time) and the
fuel level in the tank. Just a 10% difference in foward fuel flow will
make your return flow derived 15 liters per hour fuel consumption
radically change into an indicated 27 liter per hour or only 3 liter per
hour).
There is no other option than to install two fuel flow senders in a 914
and to substract the return flow from the forward flow.
Frans
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 |
I have a 2+1/4' UMA analogue flow gauge for my 914. One 201B came with the gauge
and I purchased the magic box from Matronics that came with a second 201B.
Just a word of caution on 201Bs. I screwed one up by screwing an aluminium (blue
anodized) fitting into the 201B. It galled siezed and once removed it buggered
up the threads pretty good. I purchased a bottoming tap and tapped as much
I could. Then ground the tap back even further and went at it once more. of course
the entrance holes were plugged when doing this. I got perhaps 1+ 1/2 good
threads after this exercise and Reduxed a steel fitting in place. Bottom line
i would only use brass or steel fittings and only install with some goop on
the threads even if it is just the greasy stuff like EZ lube.
BTW, I would imagine you could probably get semi useful information by installing
only one 201B on the fuel line going from the fuel pressure regulator going
to one carb. Just double that flow and you should probably be semi close to actual
flow.
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338568#338568
Message 3
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Subject: | Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 |
As Frans has said there is no real option but to install two flow sensors
on the 914.
There is now a new certified flow sensor which the LAA say should be as
acceptable to them as the flowscan 201b. It is the FT60 "red cube" made by
Electronics International Inc of Bend, Oregon. It is supposed to by some
25% cheaper. Grand Rapids (who make the EIS I have fitted) are now using
them but I have yet to get my hands on one (or two).
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 4
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Subject: | Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 |
Ian=2C
Are you sure about the saving ? The 201B is just over $ 200=2C and this FT6
0 is listed at $ 295.
Cheers
Karl
> From: g-iani@ntlworld.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a
914
> Date: Sun=2C 1 May 2011 19:01:19 +0100
>
>
> As Frans has said there is no real option but to install two flow sensor
s
> on the 914.
>
> There is now a new certified flow sensor which the LAA say should be as
> acceptable to them as the flowscan 201b. It is the FT60 "red cube" made
by
> Electronics International Inc of Bend=2C Oregon. It is supposed to by so
me
> 25% cheaper. Grand Rapids (who make the EIS I have fitted) are now using
> them but I have yet to get my hands on one (or two).
>
>
> Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear=2C 300hours
> Europa Club Mods Specialist
> e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
>
>
>
>
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===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 |
Correction: I meant 201A6=2C which is what we should be using=2C according
to your email of 7/10/08 ?
Karl
> From: g-iani@ntlworld.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a
914
> Date: Sun=2C 1 May 2011 19:01:19 +0100
>
>
> As Frans has said there is no real option but to install two flow sensor
s
> on the 914.
>
> There is now a new certified flow sensor which the LAA say should be as
> acceptable to them as the flowscan 201b. It is the FT60 "red cube" made
by
> Electronics International Inc of Bend=2C Oregon. It is supposed to by so
me
> 25% cheaper. Grand Rapids (who make the EIS I have fitted) are now using
> them but I have yet to get my hands on one (or two).
>
>
> Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear=2C 300hours
> Europa Club Mods Specialist
> e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 |
I intend to make a pair of Model 231 for general (marine) use work for
the 914.
Total factory direct cost is USD 220.
Jan de Jong
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 |
Ivor=0AYou don't need anything downstream of the Andair GAS375, it will st
op anything =0Abigger than 70 micron, and water.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0AFrom: PHILLIPS I <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.co
m>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, 30 April, 2011 22:42:0
3=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on
a 914=0A=0A=0AHi Tony=0A =0AMy fuel lines start of low to an Andair fuel v
alve followed by an Andair 375 =0AGascolator then to two inline filters fol
lowed by both fuel pumps all this is =0Ainside=0AThe tunnel, then its uphi
ll to the fuel pressure sender just below the tunnel =0Atop,=0A =0AThen thr
ough the tunnel to the Floscan on top of tunnel behind the instrument =0Apa
nel,=0A =0AThen up the inside of the firewall to a position directly inline
with the fuel =0Apressure=0ARegulator, this gives the shortest run with mi
nimal heat sink, then back to the =0Afirewall going through just slightly t
o the strb side of the fuel feed and both =0Acovered=0AIn fire sleeve,=0A
=0A Behind the firewall is my second Floscan wired to the Matronics box of
=0A tricks,=0A I used soft aluminium pipe from the transducer around the fi
rewall and under =0Athe door to terminate into the aluminium vent fuel tank
fitting, with aluminium =0Apipe its easy to make gentle bends to reduce t
urbulence and improve fuel flow,=0A =0A It sounds complicated but it users
the shortest runs with the Gascolator at the =0Alowest point in the system
with the majority of fitting protected inside the =0Atunnel from engine hea
t or outside cold, The fuel pumps/Filters/Gascolator are =0Aeasily service
able with a drop down door to the tunnel,=0A =0ARegards=0AIvor=0AG-IVER=0A
=0A=0AOn 30 April 2011 02:35, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote
l.com>=0A>=0A>Hi,=0A>I am attempting to determine where my fuel lines will
go within my tunnel, =0A>through my Singleton Firewall, and then up to my 9
14, then what path is best for =0A>my fuel return line to take to route fue
l back to the tank, without going =0A>downhill, and then back up again. Thi
s is hard without having the 914 out of its =0A>box, which is why I'd like
advice for where in the firewall I should cut holes =0A>for my fuel hose. I
am building a Bob Berube Conventional undercarriage, so I =0A>don't have b
ungee cord to consider. I also see merit in having the fuel lines =0A>suppo
rted within the tunnel, albeit I have 2 bulkheads to transit, the first is
=0A>an internal stiffener and dividing panel about 6" back from the firewal
l, and =0A>another stiffening bulkhead an inch or so forward of the throttl
e, that links =0A>internally within the tunnel the front vertical face of t
he thigh supports, =0A>where my maingear is mounted underneath. This is to
create a box section =0A>stiffener. So, how high up can I run my fuel lines
in the !=0A> tunnel to exit Grahams firewall, and then have enough room fo
r no radical bends =0A>up to engine inlet positions?=0A>Thanks.......also:
=0A>I am aware of Matt Draille's Fuel Flow Controller advertised on his hom
e page, =0A>and historically I recall others being available. I have only 1
Floscan 201B, =0A>and they aint cheap, plus I don't have the said device y
et either. If Matts is =0A>the best, well problem solved, but I am wonderin
g if there is a workaround, such =0A>as an EFIS that will do this. How have
others with a 914 solved this problem??=0A>Thanks=0A>Reg=0A>Tony Renshaw
=0A>=0A>=0A>============0A>target="_blank">http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A>===========
=0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>============0A>le,
List Admin.=0A>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>==
==== =0A
Message 8
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Subject: | Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
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- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
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that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
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about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
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easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
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- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
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can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
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- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
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agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
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- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
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- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
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controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
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Subject: | Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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|
Subject: | Re: slow gettaway |
...now...now...Fred.
We may be two nations divided by a single language but we also having
opposing views on which side to drive!!!
As a Brit it was great to see two young people enjoying their day in the
sun - lets hope for them it has a better outcome.
Kind Regards
Steve Pitt
G-SMDH, Petersfield, ENGLAND
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 12:57 AM
Subject: Europa-List: slow gettaway
>
> ...the most amazing thing about the event...
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/william-catherine-and-that-aston-martin/2011/03/04/AFymSsFF_blog.html?hpid=z5
>
> ...and Kate's doing the driving!! (on the wrong side of the road to
> boot!)
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
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