---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/01/11: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:34 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (Frans Veldman) 2. 10:26 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (rparigoris) 3. 11:04 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (G-IANI) 4. 11:34 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (Karl Heindl) 5. 11:44 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (Karl Heindl) 6. 11:53 AM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (Jan de Jong) 7. 03:10 PM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 8. 11:04 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 9. 11:05 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) 10. 11:28 PM - Re: slow gettaway (Steven Pitt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:45 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 On 04/30/2011 03:35 AM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > I have > only 1 Floscan 201B, and they aint cheap, plus I don't have the said > device yet either. If Matts is the best, well problem solved, but I > am wondering if there is a workaround, The 914 has a constant fuel flow. What the engine doesn't use is flowing back to the tank. The forward fuel flow will be around 120 liters per hour, regardless of power setting. (You might wonder whether you can then instead only measure the return flow, as this is engine power related. Problem here is that the forward fuel flow is not constant but depends a bit on voltage for the electric pump, the resistance of the fuel filter (changing over time) and the fuel level in the tank. Just a 10% difference in foward fuel flow will make your return flow derived 15 liters per hour fuel consumption radically change into an indicated 27 liter per hour or only 3 liter per hour). There is no other option than to install two fuel flow senders in a 914 and to substract the return flow from the forward flow. Frans ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:57 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 From: "rparigoris" I have a 2+1/4' UMA analogue flow gauge for my 914. One 201B came with the gauge and I purchased the magic box from Matronics that came with a second 201B. Just a word of caution on 201Bs. I screwed one up by screwing an aluminium (blue anodized) fitting into the 201B. It galled siezed and once removed it buggered up the threads pretty good. I purchased a bottoming tap and tapped as much I could. Then ground the tap back even further and went at it once more. of course the entrance holes were plugged when doing this. I got perhaps 1+ 1/2 good threads after this exercise and Reduxed a steel fitting in place. Bottom line i would only use brass or steel fittings and only install with some goop on the threads even if it is just the greasy stuff like EZ lube. BTW, I would imagine you could probably get semi useful information by installing only one 201B on the fuel line going from the fuel pressure regulator going to one carb. Just double that flow and you should probably be semi close to actual flow. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=338568#338568 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:21 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 As Frans has said there is no real option but to install two flow sensors on the 914. There is now a new certified flow sensor which the LAA say should be as acceptable to them as the flowscan 201b. It is the FT60 "red cube" made by Electronics International Inc of Bend, Oregon. It is supposed to by some 25% cheaper. Grand Rapids (who make the EIS I have fitted) are now using them but I have yet to get my hands on one (or two). Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:34:59 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 Ian=2C Are you sure about the saving ? The 201B is just over $ 200=2C and this FT6 0 is listed at $ 295. Cheers Karl > From: g-iani@ntlworld.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 > Date: Sun=2C 1 May 2011 19:01:19 +0100 > > > As Frans has said there is no real option but to install two flow sensor s > on the 914. > > There is now a new certified flow sensor which the LAA say should be as > acceptable to them as the flowscan 201b. It is the FT60 "red cube" made by > Electronics International Inc of Bend=2C Oregon. It is supposed to by so me > 25% cheaper. Grand Rapids (who make the EIS I have fitted) are now using > them but I have yet to get my hands on one (or two). > > > Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear=2C 300hours > Europa Club Mods Specialist > e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:24 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 Correction: I meant 201A6=2C which is what we should be using=2C according to your email of 7/10/08 ? Karl > From: g-iani@ntlworld.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 > Date: Sun=2C 1 May 2011 19:01:19 +0100 > > > As Frans has said there is no real option but to install two flow sensor s > on the 914. > > There is now a new certified flow sensor which the LAA say should be as > acceptable to them as the flowscan 201b. It is the FT60 "red cube" made by > Electronics International Inc of Bend=2C Oregon. It is supposed to by so me > 25% cheaper. Grand Rapids (who make the EIS I have fitted) are now using > them but I have yet to get my hands on one (or two). > > > Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear=2C 300hours > Europa Club Mods Specialist > e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:35 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 I intend to make a pair of Model 231 for general (marine) use work for the 914. Total factory direct cost is USD 220. Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:17 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 Ivor=0AYou don't need anything downstream of the Andair GAS375, it will st op anything =0Abigger than 70 micron, and water.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___ _____________________________=0AFrom: PHILLIPS I =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, 30 April, 2011 22:42:0 3=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914=0A=0A=0AHi Tony=0A =0AMy fuel lines start of low to an Andair fuel v alve followed by an Andair 375 =0AGascolator then to two inline filters fol lowed by both fuel pumps all this is =0Ainside=0AThe tunnel, then its uphi ll to the fuel pressure sender just below the tunnel =0Atop,=0A =0AThen thr ough the tunnel to the Floscan on top of tunnel behind the instrument =0Apa nel,=0A =0AThen up the inside of the firewall to a position directly inline with the fuel =0Apressure=0ARegulator, this gives the shortest run with mi nimal heat sink, then back to the =0Afirewall going through just slightly t o the strb side of the fuel feed and both =0Acovered=0AIn fire sleeve,=0A =0A Behind the firewall is my second Floscan wired to the Matronics box of =0A tricks,=0A I used soft aluminium pipe from the transducer around the fi rewall and under =0Athe door to terminate into the aluminium vent fuel tank fitting, with aluminium =0Apipe its easy to make gentle bends to reduce t urbulence and improve fuel flow,=0A =0A It sounds complicated but it users the shortest runs with the Gascolator at the =0Alowest point in the system with the majority of fitting protected inside the =0Atunnel from engine hea t or outside cold, The fuel pumps/Filters/Gascolator are =0Aeasily service able with a drop down door to the tunnel,=0A =0ARegards=0AIvor=0AG-IVER=0A =0A=0AOn 30 April 2011 02:35, Tony Renshaw wrote l.com>=0A>=0A>Hi,=0A>I am attempting to determine where my fuel lines will go within my tunnel, =0A>through my Singleton Firewall, and then up to my 9 14, then what path is best for =0A>my fuel return line to take to route fue l back to the tank, without going =0A>downhill, and then back up again. Thi s is hard without having the 914 out of its =0A>box, which is why I'd like advice for where in the firewall I should cut holes =0A>for my fuel hose. I am building a Bob Berube Conventional undercarriage, so I =0A>don't have b ungee cord to consider. I also see merit in having the fuel lines =0A>suppo rted within the tunnel, albeit I have 2 bulkheads to transit, the first is =0A>an internal stiffener and dividing panel about 6" back from the firewal l, and =0A>another stiffening bulkhead an inch or so forward of the throttl e, that links =0A>internally within the tunnel the front vertical face of t he thigh supports, =0A>where my maingear is mounted underneath. This is to create a box section =0A>stiffener. So, how high up can I run my fuel lines in the !=0A> tunnel to exit Grahams firewall, and then have enough room fo r no radical bends =0A>up to engine inlet positions?=0A>Thanks.......also: =0A>I am aware of Matt Draille's Fuel Flow Controller advertised on his hom e page, =0A>and historically I recall others being available. I have only 1 Floscan 201B, =0A>and they aint cheap, plus I don't have the said device y et either. If Matts is =0A>the best, well problem solved, but I am wonderin g if there is a workaround, such =0A>as an EFIS that will do this. How have others with a 914 solved this problem??=0A>Thanks=0A>Reg=0A>Tony Renshaw =0A>=0A>=0A>============0A>target="_blank">http://w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A>=========== =0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>============0A>le, List Admin.=0A>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>== ==== =0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:04 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:44 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:16 PM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: slow gettaway ...now...now...Fred. We may be two nations divided by a single language but we also having opposing views on which side to drive!!! As a Brit it was great to see two young people enjoying their day in the sun - lets hope for them it has a better outcome. Kind Regards Steve Pitt G-SMDH, Petersfield, ENGLAND ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Klein" Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 12:57 AM Subject: Europa-List: slow gettaway > > ...the most amazing thing about the event... > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/william-catherine-and-that-aston-martin/2011/03/04/AFymSsFF_blog.html?hpid=z5 > > ...and Kate's doing the driving!! (on the wrong side of the road to > boot!) > > do not archive > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.