---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/09/11: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:03 AM - FW: booking forms Wickenby Wings and Wheels Air show 2011 for UK and European fliers. (Bob Harrison) 2. 02:36 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Capacity (Kingsley Hurst) 3. 02:45 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Capacity (Remi Guerner) 4. 02:51 AM - French Fly-in July 3rd (David Lewendon) 5. 03:29 AM - 912 quit (Glenn Rainey) 6. 04:54 AM - DOTH Gloucestershire Thu.12th (Paddy Clarke) 7. 05:10 AM - Re: 912 quit (Karl Heindl) 8. 10:33 AM - Re: 912 quit (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 9. 11:55 AM - Re: French Fly-in July 3rd (europapa) 10. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Capacity (Bud Yerly) 11. 07:32 PM - Re: 912 quit (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 12. 10:09 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Capacity (Fred Klein) 13. 11:27 PM - Re: fuel pressure problem, urgent (europapa) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:25 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: FW: booking forms Wickenby Wings and Wheels Air show 2011 for UK and European fliers. Hi! All. Hopefully you will put our event in your "things to do places to go" diary and we will get a good turn out of Europa aircraft to a more Northern venue for a change.? The air show promises to be "something else" and stringent efforts have been made to keep the Saturday night event price tight which will be in a conventional Marquee this year. Visit www.wickenbyairfield.com for more details .....pilots will need to attend to Notam requirements concerning display no fly times. (apologies to those in receipt of duplicated copies of this message due to including the Europa Matronics Forum address.) Best regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:31 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Tank Capacity > Keep in mind, the tail dragger will hold less because of the trapped air in the front of the tank, unless there is some shacking and tail lifting involved. Bud, Just pointing out that this problem was address by Mod 34 dated 3 October 1996. Cheers Kingsley ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:47 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Tank Capacity From: "Remi Guerner" Hi Bud, Regarding capacitance fuel gauges, you mentioned the error caused by the dielectric characteristics of different fuels. Does the gauge read more with 100LL Avgas than with unleaded Mogas, with ethanol or not, or is it the opposite? Regards Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339294#339294 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:42 AM PST US From: David Lewendon Subject: Europa-List: French Fly-in July 3rd I am a new member of the Europa club having recently bought a Europa XS Trigear Turbo. My local airfield in France is having their annual "Portes Ouvertes" or open day on July the 3rd. If any club members or other flying friends fancy coming to a grass roots French airfield for a nice lunch then you are welcome to come to the event at La Rogerie, Mayenne. The airfield ident is LF5322 and can be used on this web site for flight planning (Many UK airfields are also in their database but they don't show on the map). http://navigeo.org/LOG This is our airfield: http://web.mac.com/comancheman/iWeb/Airfield/Airfield%20pics.html Everyone is welcome and I am happy to help with finding accommodation or car hire if required. Camping on the airfield is alright. The RSA homebuilders rally takes place over the same weekend 1st-3rd July at Blois on the Loire so why not go there and call in to our event on the way home? The town of Mayenne is only 4 kms from the airfield. It is located on the river Mayenne that runs through the middle of the town. There are plenty of Hotels, shops and supermarkets etc. If anyone needs more information then please let me have a land line number and I will gladly call them. Regards David Lewendon ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:01 AM PST US From: Glenn Rainey Subject: Europa-List: 912 quit 07/05/2011 we experienced an engine stop with the 912 in our monowheel - this happened just as the throttle was being advanced at the commencement of the takeoff sequence, so we rolled only a hundred feet or so and coasted to a halt. After less than a minute, a first restart attempt was successful, and we taxied back to the apron uneventfully, tail between legs, where my second action was to put on the kettle for a cup of tea. Perhaps relevent, I had heard a sharp 'bump' about 10 seconds earlier, as we were turning on the threshold to line up, and thought I had hit a light or something with the outrigger, but nothing was seen. The ambient conditions were about 21C and some showers were in the area with a convective active frontal system; we had just completed 1 circuit to land after a reasonably expeditious departure, but on backtracking from the first landing, had to hold for about 5-6 minutes on the main apron, then backtrack the second half of the active. Immediately after parking first action was to pull the top (XS) cowl when we noticed fuel boiling up the vent tubes which run into the airbox, both sides. My take on this is fuel vaporisation due to high carb temps. Our (second owner) europa is NOT fitted with drip trays under the carbs - now an item of concern, nor is there any exhaust manifold insulation. The more I read the greater my concern about in-cowl temps and comprehensive action to prevent a repeat of this experience. Fuel pressure indications were normal, and coolant temp was showing about 40C, although we now suspect the Temp sender is malfunctioning. Oil and CHTs where nominal. Ours may be just another data point, but while we trawl this archive and worry the problem, any comments would be most welcome. My own last engine quit, also on the ground, was due carb ice in an O-200; but this was much more 'exciting' coming as it did at the moment of truth .. "G-HL, rolling" - phut! The climb-out to our east is lacking a good escape option. Glenn Rainey Cumbernauld, Scotland G-OJHL ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:41 AM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Gloucestershire Thu.12th Hi Folks, I feel a DOTH is overdue, so how about Gloucestershire on Thursday 12th.? Voucher in Flyer - 1200ish, All the Best, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:33 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: 912 quit Glenn=2C My engine never quit=2C but I observed identical boilover on a hot day. It was fixed by putting heat shields below the carbs. On the port side I have a plate made of firewall material=2C attached to the top bolt of the exhaus t. On the starboard side I now have a larger and flexible asbestos plate (f rom ACS)=2C not attached to anything=2C but firmly wedged into place=2C and easy to remove for inspections. There is even more heat starboard because of the oil tank etc. Karl > Date: Mon=2C 9 May 2011 11:24:13 +0100 > From: nimbusaviation@YAHOO.COM > Subject: Europa-List: 912 quit > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > > 07/05/2011 we experienced an engine stop with the 912 in our monowheel - this happened just as the throttle was being advanced at the commencement of the takeoff sequence=2C so we rolled only a hundred feet or so and coast ed to a halt. After less than a minute=2C a first restart attempt was succe ssful=2C and we taxied back to the apron uneventfully=2C tail between legs =2C where my second action was to put on the kettle for a cup of tea. > > Perhaps relevent=2C I had heard a sharp 'bump' about 10 seconds earlier =2C as we were turning on the threshold to line up=2C and thought I had hit a light or something with the outrigger=2C but nothing was seen. The ambi ent conditions were about 21=B0C and some showers were in the area with a c onvective active frontal system=3B we had just completed 1 circuit to land after a reasonably expeditious departure=2C but on backtracking from the fi rst landing=2C had to hold for about 5-6 minutes on the main apron=2C then backtrack the second half of the active. > > Immediately after parking first action was to pull the top (XS) cowl when we noticed fuel boiling up the vent tubes which run into the airbox=2C bot h sides. > > My take on this is fuel vaporisation due to high carb temps. Our (second owner) europa is NOT fitted with drip trays under the carbs - now an item o f concern=2C nor is there any exhaust manifold insulation. The more I read the greater my concern about in-cowl temps and comprehensive action to prev ent a repeat of this experience. > > Fuel pressure indications were normal=2C and coolant temp was showing abo ut 40=B0C=2C although we now suspect the Temp sender is malfunctioning. Oil and CHTs where nominal. > > Ours may be just another data point=2C but while we trawl this archive an d worry the problem=2C any comments would be most welcome. My own last engi ne quit=2C also on the ground=2C was due carb ice in an O-200=3B but this w as much more 'exciting' coming as it did at the moment of truth .. "G-HL=2C rolling" - phut! > > The climb-out to our east is lacking a good escape option. > > Glenn Rainey > Cumbernauld=2C Scotland > G-OJHL > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: 912 quit From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Glenn, I had what might be a similar experience a few years ago with our 912S powered XS, which I believe was caused by vapor lock. At about 9,000 feet altitude I shut down the engine to do some glide tests, and when I restarted a few minutes later the engine ran rough. When I turned on the boost pump, the engine quit. I believe that the extra flow created when the boost pump went on forced a 'vapor bubble' into the carbs and killed the engine. It restarted moments later and I made a precautionary landing to check things out. We had noticed rough running on a few other occasions, and came to a few conclusions. 1) This seemed to happen following a start with the engine already hot. 2) It only seemed to happen in the winter when auto fuel has more volatiles in it. 3) It was more likely (but not always) to happen at higher elevation, where the vapor pressure is lower. We assumed the problem was vapor lock caused by the close proximity of the exhaust to the carbs and associated lines. We fitted aluminized heat shield material to the bottoms of the carbs and the associated fuel lines and have not had the problem since. Regards, Terry Seaver A135 / N135TD Monowheel XS with 912S -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Rainey Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 3:24 AM Subject: Europa-List: 912 quit 07/05/2011 we experienced an engine stop with the 912 in our monowheel - this happened just as the throttle was being advanced at the commencement of the takeoff sequence, so we rolled only a hundred feet or so and coasted to a halt. After less than a minute, a first restart attempt was successful, and we taxied back to the apron uneventfully, tail between legs, where my second action was to put on the kettle for a cup of tea. Perhaps relevent, I had heard a sharp 'bump' about 10 seconds earlier, as we were turning on the threshold to line up, and thought I had hit a light or something with the outrigger, but nothing was seen. The ambient conditions were about 21C and some showers were in the area with a convective active frontal system; we had just completed 1 circuit to land after a reasonably expeditious departure, but on backtracking from the first landing, had to hold for about 5-6 minutes on the main apron, then backtrack the second half of the active. Immediately after parking first action was to pull the top (XS) cowl when we noticed fuel boiling up the vent tubes which run into the airbox, both sides. My take on this is fuel vaporisation due to high carb temps. Our (second owner) europa is NOT fitted with drip trays under the carbs - now an item of concern, nor is there any exhaust manifold insulation. The more I read the greater my concern about in-cowl temps and comprehensive action to prevent a repeat of this experience. Fuel pressure indications were normal, and coolant temp was showing about 40C, although we now suspect the Temp sender is malfunctioning. Oil and CHTs where nominal. Ours may be just another data point, but while we trawl this archive and worry the problem, any comments would be most welcome. My own last engine quit, also on the ground, was due carb ice in an O-200; but this was much more 'exciting' coming as it did at the moment of truth .. "G-HL, rolling" - phut! The climb-out to our east is lacking a good escape option. Glenn Rainey Cumbernauld, Scotland G-OJHL ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:55:21 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: French Fly-in July 3rd From: "europapa" Hello David, thank you for your kind invitation, I would appreciate to make some flying experiences in France and I love this part of your country. But Im afraid to have some other commitments this very weekend. Maybe next year? Juergen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339335#339335 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:14 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Tank Capacity Kingsley, True, With Mod 34 (the extension of the vent tube to the front of the tank) now standard, I still find the tail dragger forward tank section has a large air bubble on normal refuel without coaxing, whereas the trigear will tend to fill completely. It is not much gas, a half to one gallon, but you can never have enough gas, unless you are on fire. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Kingsley Hurst To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:15 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Tank Capacity > Keep in mind, the tail dragger will hold less because of the trapped air in the front of the tank, unless there is some shacking and tail lifting involved. Bud, Just pointing out that this problem was address by Mod 34 dated 3 October 1996. Cheers Kingsley http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:24 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: 912 quit Sounds like vaporization. Check that you have adequate bleed back, the fuel gets =0Ahot in the fuel pump which is attached to the gearbox in hot engin e oil. Are all =0Athe in cowl pipes firesleeved?=0Afit the carb drip trays if you can, although if you have the water heated carbs =0A(recommended) th at might be tricky=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________________ __=0AFrom: Glenn Rainey =0ATo: europa-list@matron ics.com=0ASent: Monday, 9 May, 2011 11:24:13=0ASubject: Europa-List: 912 qu oo.com>=0A=0A07/05/2011 we experienced an engine stop with the 912 in our m onowheel - this =0Ahappened just as the throttle was being advanced at the commencement of the =0Atakeoff sequence, so we rolled only a hundred feet or so and coasted to a halt. =0AAfter less than a minute, a first restart a ttempt was successful, and we taxied =0Aback to the apron uneventfully, tai l between legs, where my second action was to =0Aput on the kettle for a cu p of tea. =0A=0A=0APerhaps relevent, I had heard a sharp 'bump' about 10 se conds earlier, as we =0Awere turning on the threshold to line up, and thoug ht I had hit a light or =0Asomething with the outrigger, but nothing was se en. The ambient conditions were =0Aabout 21=B0C and some showers were in t he area with a convective active frontal =0Asystem; we had just completed 1 circuit to land after a reasonably expeditious =0Adeparture, but on backtr acking from the first landing, had to hold for about 5-6 =0Aminutes on the main apron, then backtrack the second half of the active. =0A=0A=0AImmediat ely after parking first action was to pull the top (XS) cowl when we =0Anot iced fuel boiling up the vent tubes which run into the airbox, both sides. =0A=0AMy take on this is fuel vaporisation due to high carb temps. Our (sec ond owner) =0Aeuropa is NOT fitted with drip trays under the carbs - now an item of concern, =0Anor is there any exhaust manifold insulation. The more I read the greater my =0Aconcern about in-cowl temps and comprehensive act ion to prevent a repeat of this =0Aexperience. =0A=0A=0AFuel pressure indic ations were normal, and coolant temp was showing about 40=B0C, =0Aalthough we now suspect the Temp sender is malfunctioning. Oil and CHTs where =0Anom inal. =0A=0A=0AOurs may be just another data point, but while we trawl this archive and worry =0Athe problem, any comments would be most welcome. My o wn last engine quit, also =0Aon the ground, was due carb ice in an O-200; b ut this was much more 'exciting' =0Acoming as it did at the moment of truth .. "G-HL, rolling" - phut! =0A=0A=0AThe climb-out to our east is lacking a good escape option.=0A=0AGlenn Rainey=0ACumbernauld, Scotland=0AG-OJHL=0A -======================== ================== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:18 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Tank Capacity On May 9, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: > Keep in mind, the tail dragger will hold less because of the trapped > air in the front of the tank, unless there is some shacking and tail > lifting involved. "shacking" you say...hmmmmm...shacking indeed...would that be some kind of dance, or an old F-4 fighter jock term? Is it getting pretty hot already down your way Bud? Fred do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:06 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: fuel pressure problem, urgent From: "europapa" Problem solved! Yesterday I replaced all fuel hoses and had my first planed landing for weeks. Today I cut the replaced hose all the length from the electrical pump to the mechanical pump and found a desquamation that worked like a valve, closing when the fuel flow was high. Fine but some questions remain: The restrictor int the return line was not absent as the mechanics supposed but the ordered one from Europa Aircraft is so much tighter than the one once delivered with the kit. The hole in the first one is about 2mm and the new one is 0,2mm! Now with the tighter restrictor I achieve a bit more than 0,2bar fuel pressure in the full power setting. I never had a working fuel pressure gage till now so I do not know what the pressure was with the original restrictor. What kind of restrictor do you have installed and how high is your fuel pressure? Thank you so much for your assistance so far! Juergen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339400#339400 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.