Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:45 AM - Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (Brian Davies)
2. 01:01 AM - Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (Peter Jeffers)
3. 01:14 AM - Small Avdell pins for the Europa wing lift pin lock. (Bob Harrison)
4. 01:21 AM - Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (Nigel Graham)
5. 01:23 AM - Re: FW: rudder pedal adjustment (Carlton Pattinson)
6. 01:28 AM - SV: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
7. 03:10 AM - Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
8. 05:05 AM - Re: SV: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
9. 06:06 AM - Re: SV: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (Brian Davies)
10. 06:48 AM - Re: SV: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
11. 08:34 AM - Re: SV: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (Brian Davies)
12. 08:48 AM - Re: SV: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
13. 09:18 AM - Re: SV: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (Robert Borger)
14. 10:52 AM - Re: FW: rudder pedal adjustment (john firth)
15. 12:19 PM - Re: FW: rudder pedal adjustment (Mike Gamble)
16. 12:23 PM - Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding (Nigel Graham)
17. 01:23 PM - Racing Battery Lithium (Richard Churchill-Coleman)
18. 01:59 PM - Re: Racing Battery Lithium (graeme bird)
19. 02:00 PM - Re: Racing Battery Lithium (Fred Klein)
20. 02:10 PM - Re: Racing Battery Lithium (Trevor Pond)
21. 02:10 PM - Re: Racing Battery Lithium (Jan de Jong)
22. 02:20 PM - Re: Racing Battery Lithium (pjlevi@gmail.com)
23. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: Racing Battery Lithium (Frans Veldman)
24. 02:50 PM - Re: Racing Battery Lithium (graeme bird)
25. 03:06 PM - Re: Re: Racing Battery Lithium (Jan de Jong)
26. 03:35 PM - Re: Racing Battery Lithium (pjlevi@gmail.com)
27. 03:44 PM - Re: rudder pedal adjustment (rparigoris)
28. 04:29 PM - Re: Re: Racing Battery Lithium and 2nd electrical systems (Tony Renshaw)
29. 08:18 PM - Crimping Wires ......Link (Tony Renshaw)
30. 11:17 PM - Re: Racing Battery Lithium (Richard Churchill-Coleman)
31. 11:22 PM - Re: Re: Racing Battery Lithium and 2nd electrical systems (Frans Veldman)
32. 11:26 PM - Re: Re: Racing Battery Lithium (Frans Veldman)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
I have been following this thread and waiting to see if exhaust wrapping
will be mentioned as a solution to high under-cowl temperatures. The
wrapping of exhaust systems has always been frowned upon in the certified
world, supposedly because it causes cracking and corrosion of the system.
Modern exhaust wrap is highly effective and I am not aware of any negative
effects. It is also approved by the LAA on a number of Rotax installations.
My experience with it is on a closely cowled racing engine where the heat
reduction is quite dramatic.
Any comments?
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein
Johnsen
Sent: 10 May 2011 21:39
Subject: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Ref. recent discussion regarding risk of fuel vapor lock and how to shield
the fuel system from engine heat.
Attached is photo and sketch of the carb heat shields I made out of s/s
steel plate. Fixed to the exhaust pipes by s/s hose clamps. The clamps
expand and contract in approximate sync with the exhaust pipes, so no
cracking discovered and no re-tightening required. As will be seen, the
carbs have heating blocks installed, which (as stated by Graham) makes the
factory heat shields difficult to use.
All fuel hoses forward of firewall are protected by both fire sleeve and
heat sleeve (claimed to reflect approx. 90% of radiated heat) - see photo.
Both purchased from racing car supply shop in the UK (don't recall name, and
I am away from my file). I also use the heat sleeve on oil lines running
very close to the engine.
/////
Regarding the fuel return restrictor: I use the restrictor supplied by the
factory in 2001. Do not know the hole diameter, but it is less than 0.5 mm.
The opening is indeed surprisingly small, but bear in mind that gasoline has
very low viscosity compared to e.g. water.
(I sent an earlier message today with same heading, but it appears it did
not go through. If it does pop up, pls disregard it)
Regards
Svein
LN-SKJ
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
Hi Brian,
Only comment is what you mentioned, it has been thought to cause cracking
specifically in the case of Europa installations,
Pete
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Davies
Sent: 11 May 2011 08:42
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
I have been following this thread and waiting to see if exhaust wrapping
will be mentioned as a solution to high under-cowl temperatures. The
wrapping of exhaust systems has always been frowned upon in the certified
world, supposedly because it causes cracking and corrosion of the system.
Modern exhaust wrap is highly effective and I am not aware of any negative
effects. It is also approved by the LAA on a number of Rotax installations.
My experience with it is on a closely cowled racing engine where the heat
reduction is quite dramatic.
Any comments?
Regards
Brian Davies
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein
Johnsen
Sent: 10 May 2011 21:39
Subject: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Ref. recent discussion regarding risk of fuel vapor lock and how to shield
the fuel system from engine heat.
Attached is photo and sketch of the carb heat shields I made out of s/s
steel plate. Fixed to the exhaust pipes by s/s hose clamps. The clamps
expand and contract in approximate sync with the exhaust pipes, so no
cracking discovered and no re-tightening required. As will be seen, the
carbs have heating blocks installed, which (as stated by Graham) makes the
factory heat shields difficult to use.
All fuel hoses forward of firewall are protected by both fire sleeve and
heat sleeve (claimed to reflect approx. 90% of radiated heat) - see photo.
Both purchased from racing car supply shop in the UK (don't recall name, and
I am away from my file). I also use the heat sleeve on oil lines running
very close to the engine.
/////
Regarding the fuel return restrictor: I use the restrictor supplied by the
factory in 2001. Do not know the hole diameter, but it is less than 0.5 mm.
The opening is indeed surprisingly small, but bear in mind that gasoline has
very low viscosity compared to e.g. water.
(I sent an earlier message today with same heading, but it appears it did
not go through. If it does pop up, pls disregard it)
Regards
Svein
LN-SKJ
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Small Avdell pins for the Europa wing lift pin lock. |
Hi! All
Yesterday ...pulling one of the small Avdell Locking pins out from the wing
lift pin the Avdell disintegrated. Fortunately it had nearly come clear and
I was able to get it right out by long nose mole grips.
I'm hoping that the wealth of info' on this forum will guide me to the
cheapest source ...all help warmly appreciated.?
REGARDS
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
Back in the mid '90s, early adopters experimented with heat wrap and
claimed reduced noise and marginal performance improvements
(subjective). This was followed by a rash of exhaust pipe fractures that
were attributed to the heat wrap and everybody dropped it like a, well,
hot exhaust.
It was subsequently discovered that the first batch of (classic)
exhausts had been made out of mild steel and not the stainless steel
specified, so it is possible that this could have been a contributing
factor.
I have a motorcycle fitted with a titanium exhaust. It is so thin that
at night I can see the road ahead by the cosy red glow. This system is
incredibly light and ridiculously resilient and I wonder if it would be
a suitable material for a bespoke Europa system - combined with heat wrap?
Nigel
On 11/05/2011 08:42, Brian Davies wrote:
>
> I have been following this thread and waiting to see if exhaust
> wrapping will be mentioned as a solution to high under-cowl
> temperatures. The wrapping of exhaust systems has always been frowned
> upon in the certified world, supposedly because it causes cracking and
> corrosion of the system. Modern exhaust wrap is highly effective and
> I am not aware of any negative effects. It is also approved by the
> LAA on a number of Rotax installations.
>
> My experience with it is on a closely cowled racing engine where the
> heat reduction is quite dramatic.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Regards
>
> Brian Davies
>
> *From:*owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sidsel
> & Svein Johnsen
> *Sent:* 10 May 2011 21:39
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
>
> Ref. recent discussion regarding risk of fuel vapor lock and how to
> shield the fuel system from engine heat.
>
> Attached is photo and sketch of the carb heat shields I made out of
> s/s steel plate. Fixed to the exhaust pipes by s/s hose clamps. The
> clamps expand and contract in approximate sync with the exhaust pipes,
> so no cracking discovered and no re-tightening required. As will be
> seen, the carbs have heating blocks installed, which (as stated by
> Graham) makes the factory heat shields difficult to use.
>
> All fuel hoses forward of firewall are protected by both fire sleeve
> and heat sleeve (claimed to reflect approx. 90% of radiated heat) --
> see photo. Both purchased from racing car supply shop in the UK
> (don't recall name, and I am away from my file). I also use the heat
> sleeve on oil lines running very close to the engine.
>
> /////
>
> Regarding the fuel return restrictor: I use the restrictor supplied
> by the factory in 2001. Do not know the hole diameter, but it is less
> than 0.5 mm. The opening is indeed surprisingly small, but bear in
> mind that gasoline has very low viscosity compared to e.g. water.
>
> (I sent an earlier message today with same heading, but it appears it
> did not go through. If it does pop up, pls disregard it)
>
> Regards
>
> Svein
>
> LN-SKJ
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FW: rudder pedal adjustment |
CABLE TENSIONERS are the easiest way to go.
eg: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Straining-Screw-Cable-Tensioner-20mm-Jaw-49cm-73c
m-/110685980396?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19c56606ec
Aviation quality are available from Light Aero Spares.
==============
Message Received: May 10 2011, 06:49 PM
From: "Kevin Challis"
Cc:
Subject: Re: Europa-List: FW: rudder pedal adjustment
Mike
I am 5' 8" and the standard set up is fine. I know someone shorter who has
a thicker seat back & bottom which can be slipped in. This setup works well
with no permanent mods being required.
Kevin
On 10 May 2011, at 17:38, "Mike Gamble" wrote:
Re sent due bounce--
Sent: 16 April 2011 21:37
Subject: rudder pedal adjustment How do we adjust the rudder pedals for sho
rt ar=94s like myself after aircraft completion? The manual suggests
cable shortening using home made triangular 3 bolt clamps in the rear fuse
but these would bounce around the fuselage bottom of the XS with the extend
ed tail wheel. So far I have been using cushions to adjust the body. What a
re others doing?ThanksMike XS monoG-CFMP ===========
======================== hr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" mce_href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?E
uropa-List =====================
============== ums.matronics.com">http://forums
.matronics.com ====================
=============== http://www.matronics.com/cont
ribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========
==
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
Brian,
I do not want to recommend for or against exhaust wrapping, because I have
no experience with it, but my quick comment is this:
I would rather not reduce the air cooling of the exhaust pipes. Have you
seen the photo from Rotax' engine test bed, at max take-off condition?
Frightening, if you did not know that it is designed to take it: The
exhaust pipes are literally glowing red!
After I saw this, I always think about it at lift-off and reduce to climb
setting as soon as it is safe.
My personal view is therefore to reduce the radiation that hits the carbs
and rubber hoses as much as possible, rather than trying to prevent the heat
from escaping its source. Shielding the carbs and the hoses has only
positive effects, and weighs very little.
Regards
Svein
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
Morning Nigel. You are mostly right, but the first ones were stainless. The
n one =0Acracked on a factory aircraft (after take off at Sywell I remember
). Shortly =0Aafter that the =0A=0Afirst exhaust manufacturer changed to mi
ld steel without telling anyone. Next =0Aproblem was because of the very h
igh EGT the mild steel burned through and =0Aanother rash of failures devel
oped.Eventually their insurers got expensive and =0Anervous about anything
to do with aircraft. They stopped supplying exhausts and =0Aa new manufactu
rer had to be found in a hurry. Not easy!=0Aimho the problem with the early
stainless ones was that the stainless steel was =0Atoo thick, excess weigh
t, vibration loads and result, cracks. Some of we early =0Abuilders support
ed the heavy aft end of the box and had no problems.=0ATitanium would certa
inly fix it but the price might make one's eyes water.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-te
cque.co.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011
9:18:59=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
=0A=0ABack in the mid '90s, early adopters experimented with heat wrap and
claimed =0Areduced noise and marginal performance improvements (sub
jective). This was =0Afollowed by a rash of exhaust pipe fractures that
were attributed to the =0Aheat wrap and everybody dropped it like a, w
ell, hot exhaust. =0A=0AIt was subsequently discovered that the first batch
of (classic) exhausts =0Ahad been made out of mild steel and not the s
tainless steel specified, so it =0Ais possible that this could have bee
n a contributing factor.=0A=0AI have a motorcycle fitted with a titaniu
m exhaust. It is so thin that at =0Anight I can see the road ahead by
the cosy red glow. This system is =0Aincredibly light and ridiculously
resilient and I wonder if it would be a =0Asuitable material for a besp
oke Europa system - combined with heat wrap?=0A=0ANigel=0A=0AOn 11/05/2
011 08:42, Brian Davies wrote: =0A =0A>I have been following th
is thread and waiting to see if =0A>exhaust wrapping will be me
ntioned as a solution to high under-cowl =0A>temperatures. The
wrapping of exhaust systems has always been =0A>frowned upon i
n the certified world, supposedly because it causes =0A>crackin
g and corrosion of the system. Modern exhaust wrap is highly
=0A>effective and I am not aware of any negative effects. It i
s also =0A>approved by the LAA on a number of Rotax installatio
ns.=0A> =0A>My experience with it is on a closely cowled racing
engine =0A>where the heat reduction is quite dramatic.=0A> =0A
>Any comments?=0A> =0A>Regards=0A> =0A>Brian Davies
=0A> =0A>From:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com =0A>[mailto:owner-euro
pa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of =0A>Sidsel & S
vein Johnsen=0A>Sent: 10 May 2011 21:39=0A>To: europa-list@matronics.com=0A
>Subject: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shieldi
ng=0A> =0A>Ref. recent discussion regarding risk of fuel vapor
lock and how to =0A>shield the fuel system from engine heat.=0A
> =0A>Attached is photo and sketch of the carb heat shields I m
ade out of =0A>s/s steel plate. Fixed to the exhaust pipes by
s/s hose clamps. =0A>The clamps expand and contract in approxi
mate sync with the exhaust =0A>pipes, so no cracking discovered
and no re-tightening required. As =0A>will be seen, the carbs
have heating blocks installed, which (as =0A>stated by Graham)
makes the factory heat shields difficult to use.=0A> =0A>All fuel hoses fo
rward of firewall are protected by both fire sleeve =0A>and hea
t sleeve (claimed to reflect approx. 90% of radiated heat)
=93 =0A>see photo. Both purchased from racing car supply sh
op in the UK =0A>(don=99t recall name, and I am
away from my file). I also =0A>use the heat sleeve on oil lines
running very close to the engine.=0A> =0A>/////=0A> =0A>Regarding the
fuel return restrictor: I use the restrictor supplied =0A>by t
he factory in 2001. Do not know the hole diameter, but it is
=0A>less than 0.5 mm. The opening is indeed surprisingly small,
but =0A>bear in mind that gasoline has very low viscosity
compared to e.g. =0A>water. =0A>=0A> =0A>(I sent an ea
rlier message today with same heading, but it =0A>appears it di
d not go through. If it does pop up, pls disregard it)=0A> =0A
========================
=0A
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
I agree Sven,=0Athere is also the problem of wear and tear of the wrapping.
We used to find it =0Ashed fibres and dust into the engine bay which is no
t very good. There's =0Aprobably too much low frequency vibration.=0AGraham
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Sidsel & Svein J
ohnsen <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent
: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 9:26:02=0ASubject: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel an
d oil tube heat shielding=0A=0A=0ABrian,=0A =0AI do not want to recommend f
or or against exhaust wrapping, because I have no =0Aexperience with it, bu
t my quick comment is this:=0A =0AI would rather not reduce the air cooling
of the exhaust pipes. Have you seen =0Athe photo from Rotax=99 engi
ne test bed, at max take-off condition? Frightening, =0Aif you did not kno
w that it is designed to take it: The exhaust pipes are =0Aliterally glowi
ng red!=0A =0AAfter I saw this, I always think about it at lift-off and red
uce to climb =0Asetting as soon as it is safe.=0A =0AMy personal view is th
erefore to reduce the radiation that hits the carbs and =0Arubber hoses as
much as possible, rather than trying to prevent the heat from =0Aescaping i
ts source. Shielding the carbs and the hoses has only positive =0Aeffects,
==== =0A
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
Graham,
The modern stuff does not do that, but is very expensive. It is
interesting that the LAA approves it on some Rotax 912 installations.
Regards
Brian
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 11 May 2011 12:01
Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
I agree Sven,
there is also the problem of wear and tear of the wrapping. We used to
find it shed fibres and dust into the engine bay which is not very good.
There's probably too much low frequency vibration.
Graham
_____
From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 9:26:02
Subject: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Brian,
I do not want to recommend for or against exhaust wrapping, because I
have no experience with it, but my quick comment is this:
I would rather not reduce the air cooling of the exhaust pipes. Have
you seen the photo from Rotax=99 engine test bed, at max take-off
condition? Frightening, if you did not know that it is designed to take
it: The exhaust pipes are literally glowing red!
After I saw this, I always think about it at lift-off and reduce to
climb setting as soon as it is safe.
My personal view is therefore to reduce the radiation that hits the
carbs and rubber hoses as much as possible, rather than trying to
prevent the heat from escaping its source. Shielding the carbs and the
hoses has only positive effects, and weighs very little.
Regards
Svein
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
Hi Brian=0Amaybe I should do it on my Lycoming. Plenty of heat under that c
owling. The =0Aexhaust extraction works well though.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Brian Davies <brian.davies@clar
a.co.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 14
:03:25=0ASubject: RE: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shieldi
ng=0A=0A=0AGraham,=0A =0AThe modern stuff does not do that, but is very exp
ensive.=C3=82 It is interesting =0Athat the LAA approves it on some Rotax
912 installations.=0A =0ARegards=0A =0ABrian=0A =0AFrom:owner-europa-list-s
erver@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On B
ehalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON=0ASent: 11 May 2011 12:01=0ATo: europa-list@matro
nics.com=0ASubject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shiel
ding=0A =0AI agree Sven,=0Athere is also the problem of wear and tear of th
e wrapping. We used to find it =0Ashed fibres and dust into the engine bay
which is not very good. There's =0Aprobably too much low frequency vibratio
n.=0AGraham=0A =0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom:Sidsel
& Svein Johnsen <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.c
om=0ASent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 9:26:02=0ASubject: SV: Europa-List: Carb
, fuel and oil tube heat shielding=0ABrian,=0A =0AI do not want to recommen
d for or against exhaust wrapping, because I have no =0Aexperience with it,
but my quick comment is this:=0A =0AI would rather not reduce the air cool
ing of the exhaust pipes. Have you seen =0Athe photo from Rotax=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2 engine test bed, at max take-off condition? =0AFrightening
, if you did not know that it is designed to take it: The exhaust =0Apipes
are literally glowing red!=0A =0AAfter I saw this, I always think about it
at lift-off and reduce to climb =0Asetting as soon as it is safe.=0A =0AMy
personal view is therefore to reduce the radiation that hits the carbs and
=0Arubber hoses as much as possible, rather than trying to prevent the hea
t from =0Aescaping its source. Shielding the carbs and the hoses has only
positive =0Aeffects, and weighs very little.=0A =0ARegards=0ASvein=0Ahttp:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?_blank" =0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com
">http://forums.matronics.com =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 - The
=0AEuropa-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much much
=C3=82 =C3=82 =0A--> http://www.matron===========
========< =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 - MATRONICS WEB FOR
UMS via =0Athe Web =C3=82 =C3=82 --> http://forums.matronics.com =C3=82
=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 - List =0AContribution We
b generous =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3
============ =0A
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
Nice pic, Graham.
Is it flying again?
Brian
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 11 May 2011 14:44
Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Hi Brian
maybe I should do it on my Lycoming. Plenty of heat under that cowling.
The exhaust extraction works well though.
Graham
_____
From: Brian Davies <brian.davies@clara.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 14:03:25
Subject: RE: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Graham,
The modern stuff does not do that, but is very expensive.=C3=82 It is
interesting that the LAA approves it on some Rotax 912 installations.
Regards
Brian
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 11 May 2011 12:01
Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
I agree Sven,
there is also the problem of wear and tear of the wrapping. We used to
find it shed fibres and dust into the engine bay which is not very good.
There's probably too much low frequency vibration.
Graham
_____
From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 9:26:02
Subject: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
Brian,
I do not want to recommend for or against exhaust wrapping, because I
have no experience with it, but my quick comment is this:
I would rather not reduce the air cooling of the exhaust pipes. Have
you seen the photo from Rotax=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 engine test bed,
at max take-off condition? Frightening, if you did not know that it is
designed to take it: The exhaust pipes are literally glowing red!
After I saw this, I always think about it at lift-off and reduce to
climb setting as soon as it is safe.
My personal view is therefore to reduce the radiation that hits the
carbs and rubber hoses as much as possible, rather than trying to
prevent the heat from escaping its source. Shielding the carbs and the
hoses has only positive effects, and weighs very little.
Regards
Svein
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =C3=82
=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 - The
Europa-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and much
much =C3=82 =C3=82 -->
http://www.matron===================
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> < =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
=C3=82 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via the Web =C3=82 =C3=82 -->
http://forums.matronics.com =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
=C3=82 =C3=82 - List Contribution Web generous =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
-Matt http://www.matronics.com/c=
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
courier <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> " size="2"
color="#000000">http://www.matronilow
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> " target="_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m= -->
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
Not yet, I just sent off the application for engine mod. Then final inspect
ion =0Aand apply for test flying.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________
_________________=0AFrom: Brian Davies <brian.davies@clara.co.uk>=0ATo: eur
opa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 16:31:30=0ASubject:
RE: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding=0A=0A=0ANice pi
c, Graham.=0A =0AIs it flying again?=0A =0ABrian=0A =0A =0A =0AFrom:owner-e
uropa-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matroni
cs.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON=0ASent: 11 May 2011 14:44=0ATo: europ
a-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tub
e heat shielding=0A =0AHi Brian=0Amaybe I should do it on my Lycoming. Plen
ty of heat under that cowling. The =0Aexhaust extraction works well though.
=0AGraham=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom:Brian Davies
<brian.davies@clara.co.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesda
y, 11 May, 2011 14:03:25=0ASubject: RE: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil
tube heat shielding=0AGraham,=0A =0AThe modern stuff does not do that, but
is very expensive.=C3=82 It is interesting =0Athat the LAA approves it on
some Rotax 912 installations.=0A =0ARegards=0A =0ABrian=0A =0AFrom:owner-e
uropa-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matroni
cs.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON=0ASent: 11 May 2011 12:01=0ATo: europ
a-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tub
e heat shielding=0A =0AI agree Sven,=0Athere is also the problem of wear an
d tear of the wrapping. We used to find it =0Ashed fibres and dust into the
engine bay which is not very good. There's =0Aprobably too much low freque
ncy vibration.=0AGraham=0A =0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A=0A
From:Sidsel & Svein Johnsen <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>=0ATo: europa-list
@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 9:26:02=0ASubject: SV: Europ
a-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding=0ABrian,=0A =0AI do not want
to recommend for or against exhaust wrapping, because I have no =0Aexperie
nce with it, but my quick comment is this:=0A =0AI would rather not reduce
the air cooling of the exhaust pipes. Have you seen =0Athe photo from Rota
x=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 engine test bed, at max take-off condition? =0AF
rightening, if you did not know that it is designed to take it: The exhaus
t =0Apipes are literally glowing red!=0A =0AAfter I saw this, I always thin
k about it at lift-off and reduce to climb =0Asetting as soon as it is safe
.=0A =0AMy personal view is therefore to reduce the radiation that hits the
carbs and =0Arubber hoses as much as possible, rather than trying to preve
nt the heat from =0Aescaping its source. Shielding the carbs and the hoses
has only positive =0Aeffects, and weighs very little.=0A =0ARegards=0ASvei
n=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?_blank" =0Ahref="http://forums.mat
ronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
- The=0A Europa-List Email Forum utilities such as List Photoshare, and m
uch much =C3=82 =C3=82 =0A--> http://www.matron=========
==========< =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 - MATRONICS W
EB FORUMS via =0Athe Web =C3=82 =C3=82 --> http://forums.matronics.com =C3
=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 - List =0AContributio
n Web generous =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3
=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82
=C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 =C3=82 -Matt =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/c==0A =0Ac
ourier" size="2" color="#000000">http://www.matronilow" target="_blan
k" =0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m= --> =0A=0A
============ =0A
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
Graham,
Very pretty EZ.
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On May 11, 2011, at 8:43, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
> Hi Brian
> maybe I should do it on my Lycoming. Plenty of heat under that cowling. The exhaust
extraction works well though.
> Graham
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FW: rudder pedal adjustment |
i have recently replaced the rudder cables after the port one started to
destrand just as it goes through the fin bulkhead. The cause appears to
be the fitting of two sleeves on the rudder end which hit the bulkhead
on full deflection (go and check yours). My aircraft has two turnbuckles
in the rear fuselage and when setting these up you need to use the ruder
pedal stops so shortening the cable may create trouble here.
Regards, john.
On 11 May 2011, at 06:33, PHILLIPS I wrote:
> I flitted two turnbuckle's in the rear fuselage to eliminate cable
stretch, but so far they are fine, It would
> be a awkward job but they could be retro fitted through the D panel,
> Ivor
> G-IVER
>
> On 10 May 2011 17:38, Mike Gamble <mp.gamble@talktalk.net> wrote:
> Re sent due bounce--
> Sent: 16 April 2011 21:37
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: rudder pedal adjustment
>
>
> How do we adjust the rudder pedals for short ar=97s like myself after
aircraft completion? The manual suggests cable shortening using home
made triangular 3 bolt clamps in the rear fuse but these would bounce
around the fuselage bottom of the XS with the extended tail wheel. So
far I have been using cushions to adjust the body. What are others
doing?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> XS mono
>
> G-CFMP
>
>
>
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | FW: rudder pedal adjustment |
Thanks for the input re rudder pedal adjustment.
If I find the use of cushions too much trouble I shall shorten the cables by
moving the thimbles at the rudder end.
Mike
G-CFMP
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding |
Hello Graham. I just hate it when facts get in the way of a good story
;-) Thanks for the correction.
Nigel
On 11/05/2011 11:06, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
> Morning Nigel. You are mostly right, but the first ones were
> stainless. Then one cracked on a factory aircraft (after take off at
> Sywell I remember). Shortly after that the
> first exhaust manufacturer changed to mild steel without telling
> anyone. Next problem was because of the very high EGT the mild steel
> burned through and another rash of failures developed.Eventually their
> insurers got expensive and nervous about anything to do with aircraft.
> They stopped supplying exhausts and a new manufacturer had to be found
> in a hurry. Not easy!
> imho the problem with the early stainless ones was that the stainless
> steel was too thick, excess weight, vibration loads and result,
> cracks. Some of we early builders supported the heavy aft end of the
> box and had no problems.
> Titanium would certainly fix it but the price might make one's eyes water.
> Graham
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 11 May, 2011 9:18:59
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Carb, fuel and oil tube heat shielding
>
> Back in the mid '90s, early adopters experimented with heat wrap and
> claimed reduced noise and marginal performance improvements
> (subjective). This was followed by a rash of exhaust pipe fractures
> that were attributed to the heat wrap and everybody dropped it like a,
> well, hot exhaust.
> It was subsequently discovered that the first batch of (classic)
> exhausts had been made out of mild steel and not the stainless steel
> specified, so it is possible that this could have been a contributing
> factor.
>
> I have a motorcycle fitted with a titanium exhaust. It is so thin
> that at night I can see the road ahead by the cosy red glow. This
> system is incredibly light and ridiculously resilient and I wonder if
> it would be a suitable material for a bespoke Europa system - combined
> with heat wrap?
>
> Nigel
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Racing Battery Lithium |
Hi All
I've just come across a new Lithium battery for aircraft which is made
by
Racing Batteries (UK based) and being marketed by Skydrive UK
(advertised on
P31 of Light Aviation this month - RBA-300). The price is slightly eye
watering (=A3200 for the current model which has about 300 cranking amps
and
about 5 Ah capacity) but the weight is phenomenal at 1.1kg, so that in
theory running two in parallel (or waiting for its more expensive big
brother that is on its way, apparently) would still result in huge
weight
savings over even the odyssey AGM-technology range.
I've had a quick chat with Skydrive UK and they say a handful of these
are
in use in UK in kit aircraft with Rotax four strokes, despite the low
capacity compared with the (Europa manual) recommended minimum capacity
of
17 Ah. Does anyone know about or has seen any of these installations or
can
offer an opinion on whether (price aside) the battery would seem to be
adequate for our Europas?
Richard C-C
G-RPCC
Mono with 912S
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium |
sounds good, I have an Odyssey PC310 fitted which is 2.7kg, its 8Ah and has a cranking
current of 310 Amps. I have had one in my C42 for a couple of years and
its been great even in the coldest conditions and adequate current delivery.
Mine cost 115 if I recall, but 1.6Kg is worth having.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
Build nearing completion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339597#339597
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium |
On May 11, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Richard Churchill-Coleman wrote:
> Does anyone know about or has seen any of these installations or can
> offer an opinion on whether (price aside) the battery would seem to
> be adequate for our Europas?
>
Richard,
I have no personal experience w/ Lithium batteries but there has been
a recent and very extensive discussion of them on the Matronics
AeroElectric-List which may be of value to you.
Let us know if you go for one (or two) of these eye-watering babies,
Fred
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium |
Hi Guys
Ok for new build but not quite a natural
replacement for a Red Top unless it has a
Lump of lead strapped to it to keep your
C of G!!
Regards
Trev Pond
G-LINN
Sent from my iPhone
On 11 May 2011, at 21:17, "Richard Churchill-Coleman" <richard.churchill-col
eman@sky.com> wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I've just come across a new Lithium battery for aircraft which is made by R
acing Batteries (UK based) and being marketed by Skydrive UK (advertised on P
31 of Light Aviation this month - RBA-300). The price is slightly eye water
ing (=C2=A3200 for the current model which has about 300 cranking amps and a
bout 5 Ah capacity) but the weight is phenomenal at 1.1kg, so that in theory
running two in parallel (or waiting for its more expensive big brother that
is on its way, apparently) would still result in huge weight savings over e
ven the odyssey AGM-technology range.
>
> I've had a quick chat with Skydrive UK and they say a handful of these are
in use in UK in kit aircraft with Rotax four strokes, despite the low capac
ity compared with the (Europa manual) recommended minimum capacity of 17 Ah.
Does anyone know about or has seen any of these installations or can offer
an opinion on whether (price aside) the battery would seem to be adequate f
or our Europas?
>
> Richard C-C
> G-RPCC
> Mono with 912S
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium |
There was some discussion about LiFePO4 batteries very recently on the
Aeroelectric forum - see there. Bob Nuckols does not encourage.
The main possible problem seems to me that the 4 series cells do not
balance well.
The batteries are sold as "compatible with normal alternator operation"
but that is probably not all that true.
1. Charging voltage should be 14.5 or 14.6 V - not 13.8 V - for full
charge of all cells.
2. Severe imbalance can destroy the cell that reaches 100% SOC first
when the battery is charged .
3. There are balancing chargers for LiFePO4 batteries that can rebalance
cells offline.
I designed a "monitor and top-equalizer" (see attached) that would
probably allow me to use a LiFePO4 battery. Not first on my list yet.
I have been looking at the "Shorai" batteries (google). Prices in US$
reasonable
Jan de Jong
#461 (another 20 year project)
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium |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Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium |
On 05/11/2011 10:56 PM, graeme bird wrote:
> sounds good, I have an Odyssey PC310 fitted which is 2.7kg, its 8Ah
> and has a cranking current of 310 Amps.
Yep, I have two of these babies in my Europa. I have two fully separated
electrical systems (two alternators, two batteries) but use only one
system for starting. I have added a cross-over switch to tie both buses
(and batteries) together but I have never needed it. 8Ah is good enough
for starting.
However, if you have a 914 (like I have) you need the battery to keep
the fuel pump running in case of an alternator failure. In that case 8Ah
is way too small. So either you have to get a larger battery or
eliminate the single failure point by installing an additional
alternator. The latter is what I did and needless to say that both fuel
pumps are fed from a seaparate electrical bus.
When I designed this system I looked into the Lithium thing, but at that
time I decided that it was not reliable enough. Problem is the difficult
way of charging a Lithium battery, you can not just connect it to the
electrical bus like a lead-acid battery but need a very sophisticated
charge controller. Charge it wrong (a charger failure will do), and the
battery will explode or catch fire. This also happens if you puncture
the battery (like during a crash landing) There are plenty of you-tube
movies showing exploding lithium batteries.
Common advice is to keep Lithium batteries in a safety shell. But of
course this compromises the weight savings. With the dedicated charge
controller plus safety shell there might not be much weight saving left.
So I would recommend to use a PC310. It is safe, reliable, uncomplicated
and well tested.
Frans
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium |
The point about the C of G is an interesting one, I can see why if you have saved
weight you cant alter the c of g by adding a smaller weight at the tail to
re adjust. I have put my battery on the firewall as there is a saving in copper
feeding the starter and the 912 needs high starting current which is not helped
by long cables (both +ve and negative). Also I dont have the extended bagage
bay with battery slot.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
Build nearing completion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339607#339607
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium |
Hi Frans,
I know that LiCoO2, LiMn2O4 and Li(NiCo)O2 batteries are prone to
catching fire and even exploding.
I would be very interested in any evidence anywhere of LiFePO4 batteries
catching fire or exploding.
They are not supposed to do that.
Jan de Jong
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium |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Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: rudder pedal adjustment |
I have mentioned it before, I think it is worth mentioning again:
If you use turnbuckles with thimble eyes, the cable eyes can become tangled effective
shortening the cable. Bad no question on a Tri-gear but even worst on a
tail-dragger!
See page 2 for tangle, and resolution (heat shrink):
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=27732&g2_page=2
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339617#339617
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium and 2nd electrical systems |
Frans,
Can you please share what type of additional alternator you chose?
Reg
Tony Renshaw
On 12/05/2011, at 7:25 AM, Frans Veldman wrote:
>
> On 05/11/2011 10:56 PM, graeme bird wrote:
>
>> sounds good, I have an Odyssey PC310 fitted which is 2.7kg, its 8Ah
>> and has a cranking current of 310 Amps.
>
> Yep, I have two of these babies in my Europa. I have two fully separated
> electrical systems (two alternators, two batteries) but use only one
> system for starting. I have added a cross-over switch to tie both buses
> (and batteries) together but I have never needed it. 8Ah is good enough
> for starting.
>
> However, if you have a 914 (like I have) you need the battery to keep
> the fuel pump running in case of an alternator failure. In that case 8Ah
> is way too small. So either you have to get a larger battery or
> eliminate the single failure point by installing an additional
> alternator. The latter is what I did and needless to say that both fuel
> pumps are fed from a seaparate electrical bus.
>
> When I designed this system I looked into the Lithium thing, but at that
> time I decided that it was not reliable enough. Problem is the difficult
> way of charging a Lithium battery, you can not just connect it to the
> electrical bus like a lead-acid battery but need a very sophisticated
> charge controller. Charge it wrong (a charger failure will do), and the
> battery will explode or catch fire. This also happens if you puncture
> the battery (like during a crash landing) There are plenty of you-tube
> movies showing exploding lithium batteries.
> Common advice is to keep Lithium batteries in a safety shell. But of
> course this compromises the weight savings. With the dedicated charge
> controller plus safety shell there might not be much weight saving left.
>
> So I would recommend to use a PC310. It is safe, reliable, uncomplicated
> and well tested.
>
> Frans
>
>
>
>
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Crimping Wires ......Link |
Hi,
For those doing electrics, or about to start, I found this link very informative
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Aussie
P.S. If anyone knows of a "must do" in Capetown SA, please let me know.
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Racing Battery Lithium |
Thanks to everyone for all your comments - sounds very much like I need
to
get the build close to finished and then assess my CG before I can
decide
both on battery location and weight requirements - and then see if the
charger issue has been overcome with this battery type.
RCC
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
pjlevi@gmail.com
Sent: 11 May 2011 23:31
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Racing Battery Lithium
I actually bought one of these batteries from Skydrive in UK at =A3199.
It is
indeed very small and weighs 1 kg.
I have a Europa monowheel classic and, like you, was thinking of the
weight
saving compared to the standard battery. However, when I discussed it
with
Pete Jefferies he worked out the amended weight and balance and
discovered
that the moment was such that the 3 or 4 kg. weight saving altered the
balance to such an extent that it would have effectively restricted the
a/c
to a single seater! He said it would never get LAA approval for
installation
in my Europa, so I still have it unused and left the old battery in
place.
So, I advise you to check the weight & balance before buying it!
Philip Levi
G-BWWB
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium and 2nd electrical systems |
On 05/12/2011 01:25 AM, Tony Renshaw wrote:
> Can you please share what type of additional alternator you chose?
It is a small alternator that can be mounted on the vacuum pad (if you
have no vacuum pump).
http://www.bandc.biz/alternator20ampshomebuilt.aspx
Frans
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Racing Battery Lithium |
On 05/12/2011 12:02 AM, Jan de Jong wrote:
> I know that LiCoO2, LiMn2O4 and Li(NiCo)O2 batteries are prone to
> catching fire and even exploding.
> I would be very interested in any evidence anywhere of LiFePO4 batteries
> catching fire or exploding.
Ok. When I was building the system these LiFeP04 batteries were just
starting to show up, but not suitable for airplane use yet for some
reason (I believe they have/had weird voltages). If they can withstand
unbalanced charging without exploding then of course it invalidates part
of my reservations.
Frans
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|