Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:07 AM - Fuel Hose Clips/ Clamps Question (JonSmith)
2. 12:54 AM - Re: Fuel Hose Clips/ Clamps Question (Pete Lawless)
3. 09:36 AM - Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri (Allan Skanderup Nielsen)
4. 11:00 AM - Re: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri (Fred Klein)
5. 11:19 AM - Re: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri (G-IANI)
6. 11:24 AM - Re: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri (Fred Klein)
7. 01:46 PM - Re: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri (Bud Yerly)
8. 03:16 PM - Re: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri (Karl Heindl)
9. 04:14 PM - Re: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri (Greg Fuchs)
10. 06:07 PM - Re: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri (Karl Heindl)
11. 11:23 PM - Re: Fuel Hose Clips/ Clamps Question (JonSmith)
12. 11:42 PM - Bonding of upper fuselage (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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Subject: | Fuel Hose Clips/ Clamps Question |
Hi, Could anyone recommend a better type of fuel hose clip than the standard Jubilee-type
clip that is supplied by the factory and if so where I could buy them
in the UK? (For the 6 & 8 mm hose which I think is 9-13 mm clips)
I don't want to go down the route of better fittings such as aeroquip or AN fittings
yet - maybe a winter job, just want some better clips as with my heavyhandedness
I seem to have about a 50% success rate with the jubilees (keep stripping
the d*mn things!).
Thanks, Jon
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340893#340893
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Subject: | Fuel Hose Clips/ Clamps Question |
Hi Jon
Demon Tweaks have Mikalor Stainless Clamps which are tightened with a nut
and bolt.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motorsport/Fasteners_Hose_Clips/Hose_Clips/198
8
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JonSmith
Sent: 25 May 2011 07:59
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Hose Clips/ Clamps Question
Hi, Could anyone recommend a better type of fuel hose clip than the
standard Jubilee-type clip that is supplied by the factory and if so where I
could buy them in the UK? (For the 6 & 8 mm hose which I think is 9-13 mm
clips)
I don't want to go down the route of better fittings such as aeroquip or AN
fittings yet - maybe a winter job, just want some better clips as with my
heavyhandedness I seem to have about a 50% success rate with the jubilees
(keep stripping the d*mn things!).
Thanks, Jon
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340893#340893
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Subject: | Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri |
I have reached the stage where it would be natural to fit the main landing
gear as access is easy and the top moulding is not in the way yet=2C but ac
cording to the flow chart in the manual page 10T-1 I should not fit the mai
n landing gear before the top moulding is fitted.
My question is: Is it allright to fit the main landing gear before the top
moulding?
Kind regards=2C
Allan Skanderup Nielsen
Kit no. 0622=2C Denmark.
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Subject: | Re: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri |
On May 25, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Allan Skanderup Nielsen wrote:
> My question is: Is it allright to fit the main landing gear before
> the top moulding?
Allan,
Notwithstanding the sequence outlined in the Europa manual, I've done
exactly what you're considering.
I did so however only after making a substantial "cradle" frame in
which the lower half of the fuselage sits in a manner which ensures
that the moulding is fully supported to maintain its shape. I also
used clecos at 12" o.c. in order to be able to temporarily secure the
upper fuselage to the lower half. In the process of doing this, I
worked hard to ensure the fuselage was level and true by using my
digital level and string lines fore and aft.
I don't regret a bit my decision to defer bonding the upper and lower
fuselage mouldings together until the last possible moment.
Happy building,
Fred
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Subject: | Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri |
Allan
The cockpit module, once bonded in, makes the forward part of the aircraft
very stiff. I was advised back in 2001 that it would be OK and have now
done two aircraft this way and both l worked OK.
In addition I recommend that you fit everything you can think of before the
top goes on. With the top off these take half the time that they do later,
with the top on. Think about your cable and pipe runs and install clips for
the cables, install the ground plane for the transponder, any supports for
the rudder cable runs or cable adjusters. While the top is off you can
invert it to facilitate jobs such as the head lining panel, cable ducts up
to the head lining, stiffening support behind the fuel filler.
So leave the top moulding off as long as possible.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
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Subject: | Re: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri |
On May 25, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Allan Skanderup Nielsen wrote:
> My question is: Is it allright to fit the main landing gear before
> the top moulding?
Allan,
I should add to my previous post that my plane is a monowheel, not a
trigear.
Fred
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri |
Alan,
Not to but in, but the reason for putting the top on is that that makes
the fuselage quite stiff. If the wing pins and tail plane tubes as well
as tail post are all square and level, it would also be ridged enough to
stay that way. So when you jig the aircraft to put the trigear on a
closed out fuselage, any slight warpage from the installation of the
gear would be resisted.
Please note that with the top on, the glassing is challenging, you will
have some back aches, chest bruising and appreciate people who are five
foot and 100 lbs. with see in the dark capability.
With proper jigging it is quite easy to install the gear with the top
off. As Ian and Fred have commented, it is far more comfortable
spending the time peering in over the side with an unobstructed view of
your work. It is necessary to build a platform for the fuselage that
allows you to get the tail and fuselage alignment spot on. I even cleco
on the top and prep for glue up as it isn't perfectly square all the
time right out of the box. If the one side of the top is cut 1 mm
shorter than the other, you have a leaning tail post. Sometimes the
tail plane tube is a bit off from the actual wing pins so they need to
be shored up to level. Put timbers from the floor to the tail tube and
shore up until level with the wing pins and I have always had good luck
with a nice straight aircraft. I recommend gluing in your baggage bay
in as well.(Yes, I put the wing pins or bolts in the fuselage and level
the plane by putting a 40 inch long angle stock on the bar and compare
to the tailplane tube, rather than with a level across the seat back.
Leveling across the seat back has not been as reliable in my
experience.) Once jigged solid I can consider the gear.
Once all jigged, then take your time to get the fuselage centerline
scribed or marked to the floor, then set your trigear angle stock jig
piece precisely. Glue it all in place to the floor to prevent movement
during initial assembly. Then do your leg assembly in an upright
fashion with good posture and lighting. Cut paper templates of your
gear braces out and check for fit rather than trusting your templates.
The templates are very close, but your holes will vary a little and a
nip and tuck may be needed for a good fit. The glass it up. Finally, the
placement of wiring, brake lines, fuel tubing, rudder cable guides and
fairleads, autopilots, ELTs, antennas, fuel drains, battery boxes,
solenoids, tailplane trim bar travel, tie downs, the baggage bay, flap
drives, etc. can all be installed comfortably. I even trial fit my tabs
on top of the tail post and cut my bump stop before final glue up of the
top. Just add Redux and glue on the top when ready. It is all about the
prep.
If you have problems jigging the aircraft in your shop, then by all
means put the top on, get someone five foot and 100 pounds and pay them
to glass in the gear. If no person of that stature lives around you,
then build up a platform to stand on, buy some nice lighting which is
cool and work from the sides with plenty of ventilation. It is hard on
the back, but can be done with only a couple days needed for back
recovery.
Only a neophyte looks at the top on the airplane and thinks, "there, the
fuselage is done, lets go fly". Better to have everything open until
well into the project then a closeout party later on when everything you
can think of is done on your punch list for the fuselage and wings
internals. No one ever sees all the details inside that big simple
model airplane shell, but those details are the real part of aircraft
building...
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
Europa Tech Support
www.customflightcreations.com<http://www.customflightcreations.com/>
(813) 653-4989
----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Skanderup Nielsen<mailto:allan_skanderup@hotmail.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:33 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri
I have reached the stage where it would be natural to fit the main
landing gear as access is easy and the top moulding is not in the way
yet, but according to the flow chart in the manual page 10T-1 I should
not fit the main landing gear before the top moulding is fitted.
My question is: Is it allright to fit the main landing gear before the
top moulding?
Kind regards,
Allan Skanderup Nielsen
Kit no. 0622, Denmark.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
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Subject: | Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri |
Allan=2C
I agree with all the other builders. I did practically everything before pu
tting the top on. Even painted the bottom=2C because that is easy in the in
verted position. I had no need to crawl into the tail after the top was bon
ded on. When you put in all the wall and head lining=2C leave extra materia
l along the edges so you can trim that off afterwards. Only the wings shoul
d be fitted AFTER the top is on.
Karl
From: allan_skanderup@hotmail.com
Subject: Europa-List: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri
I have reached the stage where it would be natural to fit the main landing
gear as access is easy and the top moulding is not in the way yet=2C but ac
cording to the flow chart in the manual page 10T-1 I should not fit the mai
n landing gear before the top moulding is fitted.
My question is: Is it allright to fit the main landing gear before the top
moulding?
Kind regards=2C
Allan Skanderup Nielsen
Kit no. 0622=2C Denmark.
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Subject: | Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri |
--->"Only the wings should be fitted AFTER the top is on."
I too, am trying to do everything with the top off, to not have to crawl
back into the dungeon of doom. One more climb will be needed probably, to
set the final position of the mass balance 'H' tower in the back, even with
its false fuselage hat. It conforms to the fuse, but does not seem to
adequately position itself with the top mounted down.
I am hoping that having clecoes every 3-4 inches on the main fuselage, and
every 2-3 inches (more where needed, in both cases) in the tail area, and
the top in its final pre-glue resting state including any spacers, will be
an adequate replacement for a glued-in fuse...to allow wing lift and flap
pin plus actuator installation, and not have them move later. Seem ok?
Anyone do this...or just thoughts?
_____
Allan,
I agree with all the other builders. I did practically everything before
putting the top on. Even painted the bottom, because that is easy in the
inverted position. I had no need to crawl into the tail after the top was
bonded on. When you put in all the wall and head lining, leave extra
material along the edges so you can trim that off afterwards. Only the wings
should be fitted AFTER the top is on.
Karl
Message 10
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Subject: | Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri |
Greg=2C
I think I used clecoes to position the top=2C and then I had a load of smal
l screws and I put them wherever I could see a gap. After about 5 hours of
redux cure I undid the screws about 1/4 turn to make them easy to remove ne
xt day.
Karl
From: gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fitting of main landing gear on XS-Tri
--->"Only the wings
should be fitted AFTER the top is on."
I too=2C am trying to do everything with the top off=2C to
not have to crawl back into the dungeon of doom. One more climb will be nee
ded
probably=2C to set the final position of the mass balance 'H' tower in the
back=2C
even with its false fuselage hat. It conforms to the fuse=2C but does not s
eem to
adequately position itself with the top mounted
down.
I am hoping that having clecoes every 3-4 inches on the
main fuselage=2C and every 2-3 inches (more where needed=2C in both cases)
in the
tail area=2C and the top in its final pre-glue resting state including any
spacers=2C will be an adequate replacement for a glued-in fuse...to allow w
ing
lift and flap pin plus actuator installation=2C and not have them move
later. Seem ok? Anyone do this...or just thoughts?
Allan=2C
I agree with all the other builders. I did practically everything before
putting the top on. Even painted the bottom=2C because that is easy in the
inverted position. I had no need to crawl into the tail after the top was b
onded
on. When you put in all the wall and head lining=2C leave extra material al
ong the
edges so you can trim that off afterwards. Only the wings should be fitted
AFTER
the top is on.
Karl
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Hose Clips/ Clamps Question |
Many thanks for the replies. Excellent - nut and bolt - that's what I need! Philip
- I've sent you an e-mail to your hotmail.
Cheers.
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=341074#341074
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Subject: | Bonding of upper fuselage |
On a related subject, regardless of when its done, I tried something
which may have merit...in my case I'm very satisfied with the results.
When trial fitting the fuselage (using clecoes on 6" ctrs from
firewall to baggage bay bulkhead, 12" ctrs. back towards the tail, and
then 6" ctrs. or as necessary around the horizontal tailplane) I
noticed that the joggle joint between upper and lower fuselage
mouldings did not give a nice vertical plane across the
intersection...an issue easily solved of course with a couple of
millimeters of filler, but one which I'd hoped to minimize.
What I did was use my 3/4" hole saw to make a bunch of FG washers in 2
thicknesses. The pilot drill of the holesaw made a nice 1/4" hole in
the washers. Using a scrap of FG w/ a semicircular 3/4" hole in one
end, I had a nice little tool to push/slide the washers between the
joggle at each clecoe, going down the length of the joint on port and
starboard. In each instance, I could add whatever thickness of washers
was necessary in order to align the adjacent edges of the upper and
lower fuselage along the entire length of the joint, marking the
fuselage w/ the washer count at each clecoe.
Then w/ the upper fuselage removed, I used 5 min. epoxy to bond the
washers around each clecoe hole.
Stiff floxed Redux was applied to the lower fuselage, making sure that
there was a thick enough coat to ensure full bedding w/ some "squeeze-
out". I experienced no bulging between clecoes.
Due to the special qualities of our floxed-Redux, I have no concerns
about using it to fill the gap caused by my FG washer-spacers...If
anyone thinks I'm off-base on this from a structural standpoint,
please say so!
The result is my horizontal fuselage joint finished out smooth w/
minimal filler, except back at where the seam goes diagonal and then
aft above the tailplane.
A couple of pixs below.
Happily building,
Fred
PS: I don't regret having 4 helpers present to place the upper
fuselage in position after the Redux was applied to the joint.
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