---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/03/11: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:07 AM - Flap cross tube problem (Greg Fuchs) 2. 05:13 AM - Radio problem (David Lewendon) 3. 06:21 AM - Re: Flap cross tube problem (Frans Veldman) 4. 11:48 AM - Re: Flap cross tube problem (Greg Fuchs) 5. 12:11 PM - 912ULS ignition failure update (Guerner Remi) 6. 01:21 PM - Re: Flap cross tube problem (Greg Fuchs) 7. 01:33 PM - Re: Flap cross tube problem (Robert Borger) 8. 02:01 PM - Re: Flap cross tube problem (G-IANI) 9. 02:12 PM - Re: 912ULS ignition failure update (Frans Veldman) 10. 02:20 PM - N127ZP Landing gear failure. (Jeffrey J Paris) 11. 02:39 PM - Re: Flap cross tube problem (Jan de Jong) 12. 02:48 PM - Re: Flap cross tube problem (Jan de Jong) 13. 05:41 PM - Re: Flap cross tube problem (Fred Klein) 14. 10:15 PM - Re: 912ULS ignition failure update (Remi Guerner) 15. 11:01 PM - Re: Flap cross tube problem (JR Gowing) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:23 AM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem Hi all, The flap cross tube appears to be about 2 inches too short, on my aircraft! I was hoping there would be some end pieces placed onto FL15 to lengthen it, but unfortunately, the GE12 bearing and the bearing holder do not increase the length. There does not appear to be any way it will be long enough to firmly grab the pins on both flaps, though it might just be able to span the gap to barely reach the in-board ends of the pins. The length of my flap cross tube (FL15) is 44 and one half inches from end to end. Can someone tell me what theirs measures? Anyone have this problem? Thank you, Greg A050 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:18 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Radio problem From: David Lewendon Well my SWR meter arrived in the post and I have purchased a couple of convertors to go from the BNC on the radio to the PL259 on the SWR meter. I could not get any reading using my Filser radio and I thought that the meter might be duff so I connected my hand held radio to the a/c antenna and everything was fine. I was getting a return reading of about 1.2 which is well within limits. Whilst doing this check I noticed that the P1 PTT button was not working, it had been previously but now nothing, so I am going to do a continuity check on the PTT wires to see if that is the fault before checking the radio. The P2 PTT works but it did not show up on the SWR test, I presume that it should send the same signal as the P1 button. Regards David Lewendon Regards David Lewendon ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:12 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem On 06/03/2011 02:04 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote: > The flap cross tube appears to be about 2 inches too short, on my > aircraft! Please read the appropriate SB's and AD's on the Europa website. There has been a batch with too short flap cross tubes (with almost a fatal crash as a result) so it might well be that it applies to your situation as well. Frans ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:49 AM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem Frans, Good point, I could probably find the length info there. I think my cross tube would just barely hang on, even on the ground. Something will have to change for sure. I don't believe my flap is short, either. It appears longer than at least one that I have seen on the Europa owners website. Only about a quarter inch was shaved off the outboard side flange, to allow the hinge arm to center between the dual hinge on the wing. I will start looking through the SB's and AD's. Thanks, Greg >Please read the appropriate SB's and AD's on the Europa website. There has been a batch with too short flap cross tubes >(with almost a fatal crash as a result) so it might well be that it applies to your situation as well. >Frans ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:19 PM PST US From: Guerner Remi Subject: Europa-List: 912ULS ignition failure update At last I am back in the air. Thank you to all of you who responded to my question about possible broken wires in the ignition system: I did not find any. The culprits were the electronic modules which have aged to the point were they are unable to produce reliable sparks at normal cranking speed. I replaced one of them (cost me 928 Euros) and the engine starts very well now. To summarize the history of this problem: - the symptom was: impossible to start engine in spite of a normally charged battery. It happens once in August last year and twice in the past few weeks. There were no problem after the engine was finally started, never an ignition miss during run-up. - I checked the carbs first and found nothing wrong. I then suspected the ignition - I installed dummy spark plugs to allow to visualize the sparks, and a counter to mesure crankshaft rpm when driven by the starter motor. - I confirmed that most of the time there were no spark at normal cranking speed (I was able to vary crankshaft speed from 270 to 460 rpm. ) I noticed that the higher the cranking speed, the better the probability to get sparks, but this was not repeatable all the time. According to the Rotax manuals, the ignition cut-in speed is 150 to 220 crankshaft rpm. Most of the times I had no sparks below about 400 rpm. - I made all the measurements and checks as suggested in the Rotax Heavy Maintenance Manual and found nothing wrong. - I then replaced one electronic module with a new one and noticed that it was able to produce seemingly more powerful sparks even at the lowest cranking speeds. The other module was still unable to spark. Permutation of the two modules confirmed that the new one was always producing sparks while the other one was not. - subsequent engine tests showed confirmed that starting was ok and both ignition systems were fine when the engine is running. Moreover, the bad ignition module is still able to start the engine most of the time. One benefit of this mess: now I have the Soft Start system on both channels as Rotax has it incorporated into the new module. Some lessons learned or re-learned: - do not believe that a redundant system cannot fail completely: in this instance it did. However there were no safety issue as the failure was effective during starting only. - electronics failures are intermittent most of the time and therefore difficult to troubleshoot. - the lack of precise data and testing procedures from Rotax make troubleshooting more difficult: for example what voltage the charging coils should deliver vs crankshaft speed? I was able to measure this voltage but had no reference to compare with, so there were no way to be sure that the stator was performing ok. - it is easy to measure cranking speed using a 15 Euro bicycle speed counter. With the Airmaster prop, you install the sensor on the brush bracket and sense the magnet included in the prop flange. The right programming of the unit allows to read directly the crankshaft speed. - cranking the engine with one spark plug removed from each cylinder is a bad idea: as there is no blow-by anymore, the oil pumped into the engine is not returned to the tank and you may end up with a full crankcase and an empty tank. The Rotax is ok when it works. When it doesn't it's a real nightmare to work on. It really is not design with maintenance in mind. If I had to pay somebody to do do the maintenance it would be tremendously expensive. Anyway it is more expensive to maintain than a Lyconental. Remi Guerner F-PGKL, 830 hours PS: now I have the alternator red light coming occasionally. I have ordered a new regulator today (just another 110 Euros!) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:57 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem The SB pertaining to the flap drive tube does not discuss the length of the tube, only the clearance between it and the root of the flap. I still would like to know a few examples of others drive tube lengths for the flap cross tube. That way, I could rule out wing pin location, flap length, etc. before contacting the company. Just a few will do, and it doesn't need to be real precise. Down to (+/-) 1/4" or so will be fine. Reporting in mm or cm (or whatever) is very welcome as well, I just need a small representative sampling. Next time you are in the garage or hangar with nothing much to do? Thanks for all help, Greg _______________ Frans, Good point, I could probably find the length info there. I think my cross tube would just barely hang on, even on the ground. Something will have to change for sure. I don't believe my flap is short, either. It appears longer than at least one that I have seen on the Europa owners website. Only about a quarter inch was shaved off the outboard side flange, to allow the hinge arm to center between the dual hinge on the wing. I will start looking through the SB's and AD's. Thanks, Greg >Please read the appropriate SB's and AD's on the Europa website. There >has been a batch with too short flap cross tubes >(with almost a fatal crash as a result) so it might well be that it >applies to your situation as well. >Frans ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:33:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem From: Robert Borger Greg, I agree with Frans reply. FWIW, my cross tube is 44 3/4 inches across with the bearings in place and works just fine. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232 http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046 Europa Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jun 3, 2011, at 7:04, Greg Fuchs wrote: > > Hi all, > > The flap cross tube appears to be about 2 inches too short, on my aircraft! I was hoping there would be some end pieces placed onto FL15 to lengthen it, but unfortunately, the GE12 bearing and the bearing holder do not increase the length. There does not appear to be any way it will be long enough to firmly grab the pins on both flaps, though it might just be able to span the gap to barely reach the in-board ends of the pins. The length of my flap cross tube (FL15) is 44 and one half inches from end to end. Can someone tell me what theirs measures? Anyone have this problem? > > Thank you, > > Greg A050 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:34 PM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem Greg Just measured the tube from Kit 576 and it is 44-5/8th long. I am not aware that there has been any variation in the tube lengths that Frans referred to. There is some variation in the fuselage width which I have never been able to explain given the rigidity of the cockpit module. For example Kit 576 is some 12mm wider at the forward wing pins than I would expect. I am about to do the flap tube on 576 so I can let you know if this cross tube is long enough for this aircraft. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:44 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: 912ULS ignition failure update On 06/03/2011 09:06 PM, Guerner Remi wrote: > Some lessons learned or re-learned: > - do not believe that a redundant system cannot fail completely: in this > instance it did. Maybe it didn't. Most likely one failed first... but as you have two of them, and one is sufficient to start the engine, you never noticed that one was broken. You started to notice something when both were gone. Maybe it should be a good habit to start the engine at one magneto once in a while, to check that that single ignition module is still able to spark at cranking speed. > PS: now I have the alternator red light coming occasionally. I have > ordered a new regulator today (just another 110 Euros!) I wonder whether your alternator is still ok. It is the same thing that generates the power to the spark modules. Maybe the new spark modules can handle the weaker alternator, but the fault was really in the alternator. Maybe the static magnet got weaker over time. Frans ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:01 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey J Paris" Subject: Europa-List: N127ZP Landing gear failure. Hi Bud, =C2- We had a major problem today, during a taxi and a stationary run-up our land ing gear collapsed and nuked our prop and pancaked our airplane onto the tar mac at my local airport. =C2-Needless to say I'm feeling a bit devastated, but I'm very grateful as my Father pointed out ,"that thank god I wasn't ta king off or landing when the gear failed." =C2-I had to agree wholehearted ly! =C2-Anyways, any ideas or has anyone else out there suffered the same problem? =C2-During my build I definitely was concerned that the "Gear" ha ndle was doing 3 jobs, deploying/retracting the main gear, flaps and outrigg ers. =C2-My aircraft has been on the mains since last September and has be en moved in and out of the hanger many times, what gives besides the gear? =C2-I have attached some pictures that may shed some light to your experie nced eye. =C2- =C2- Looks like a total tear down for the engine? =C2-Mod 51 incorporated.=C2 -The aircraft is insured, my Father was a successful Insurance Agent and w e are covered pending an inspection from claims. =C2- Accident Information regarding N127ZP =C2-Europa Monowheel Classic. =C2- Pilot/Owner: Jeff Paris at controls at time of accident,=C2-Phase I of gro und testing. =C2- When: =C2-June 3, 2011 approximately 12:30 PM at hanger located SDC =C2 -perfect VFR conditions. =C2- Where: =C2-Parked on Taxiway on south side of field=C2- =C2- How and What: =C2-Was test running engine up on taxiway near hanger. =C2 -Aircraft was stationary with parking brake engaged. =C2-During engine r un-up pilot looked down to close throttle after successful run-up and notice d that the landing gear handle was bent/bending to the left. =C2-Pilot imm ediately attempted to shut down engine when the gear collapsed and propeller struck the ground and stopped engine. =C2-At time of preflight inspection =C2-and up to accident all safety latches for the landing gear on the air craft appeared to be functioning and engaged as designed.=C2-Aircraft dism antled and stored in owners hanger, pending review of damage. =C2- I guess we all heard the saying there are two types of retractable pilots on e that has had a gear up landing and those that will, I didn't expect to hav e a collapse just sitt ing there monitoring the gauges. . . WTF!=C2- =C2- Thanks for your time and consideration. =C2- Jeff Paris =C2- =C2- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:29 PM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem The bare flap cross tube of kit 461 is 132 mm long. Regards, Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:18 PM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem Sorry - correction: the bare flap cross tube of kit 461 is 1132 mm long (a '1' was omitted in the earlier post). Regards, Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:09 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem On Jun 3, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote: > I still would like to know a few examples of others drive tube > lengths for > the flap cross tube. Greg, I just measured the length of the flap drive tube on A194 and it is but 44 3/8"; nonetheless, having taken other measurements from the flaps (mounted on the wings, but the wings are de-mounted from the fuselage, I believe I have full-depth engagement of the pin into the bearings at the end of the drive tube. Good Luck, Fred ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:44 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: 912ULS ignition failure update From: "Remi Guerner" Hi Frans, I tested the alternator with a 150 W load as per the Rotax Manual and this test confirmed the alternator was ok. Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342014#342014 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:22 PM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem Greg and Fred Have just measured my flap drive cross tube as 44 5/8"but I have not assembled the wings for at least a couple of years and so do not yet know how snugly it is held by the wings. JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: Saturday, 4 June 2011 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap cross tube problem On Jun 3, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote: > I still would like to know a few examples of others drive tube lengths > for the flap cross tube. Greg, I just measured the length of the flap drive tube on A194 and it is but 44 3/8"; nonetheless, having taken other measurements from the flaps (mounted on the wings, but the wings are de-mounted from the fuselage, I believe I have full-depth engagement of the pin into the bearings at the end of the drive tube. Good Luck, Fred ----- No virus found in this message. 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